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Groups > sci.physics > #533801 > unrolled thread

long antenna

Started byRichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>
First post2015-11-17 10:42 -0800
Last post2015-11-25 23:51 +0000
Articles 15 on this page of 95 — 14 participants

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Contents

  long antenna RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-17 10:42 -0800
    Re: long antenna Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:46 -0600
      Re: long antenna Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 20:10 +0100
      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-17 20:28 +0000
        Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 16:59 -0500
      Re: long antenna Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-18 22:56 +0100
        Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 16:57 -0600
          Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-18 23:15 +0000
            Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 20:42 -0600
              Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-19 05:29 +0000
                Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 08:54 -0600
                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-19 18:44 +0000
                    Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-22 15:32 -0600
                      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 23:16 +0000
              Re: long antenna HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 06:59 -0800
                Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 20:02 -0500
        Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 01:36 -0500
    Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-17 13:28 -0600
    Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:04 -0800
      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-17 22:35 +0000
        Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 19:28 -0500
          Re: long antenna Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-11-17 17:18 -0800
            Re: long antenna RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 11:39 -0800
              Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 15:12 -0500
                Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 09:21 -0600
                  Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 10:05 -0600
                    Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 20:05 +0000
                      Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 18:39 -0600
                        Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 01:46 +0000
                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 19:55 +0000
              Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 20:04 +0000
                Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 16:33 -0600
                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 22:58 +0000
                    Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 09:11 -0600
                      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 19:42 +0000
                        Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 11:57 -0800
                        Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 14:52 -0600
                          Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 21:12 +0000
                            Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 18:58 -0600
                              Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 01:37 +0000
                                Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 23:45 -0500
                                  Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-27 01:01 -0600
                                    Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 23:31 -0800
                                      Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 11:34 -0500
                                        Re: long antenna "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 09:58 -0800
                                    Re: long antenna benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 11:46 -0500
                                      Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-28 16:42 -0600
                                        Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-28 22:58 +0000
                                          Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 07:46 -0600
                                            Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 19:01 +0000
                                              Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 14:12 -0600
                                                Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 20:43 +0000
                                                  Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 17:41 -0600
                                                    Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 00:15 +0000
                                                      Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 20:23 -0600
                                                        Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 06:21 +0000
                                              Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 15:22 -0500
                                                Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 20:48 +0000
                                                  Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 17:16 -0600
                                                    Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-30 23:52 +0000
                                                      Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-30 19:59 -0600
                                                        Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-01 02:16 +0000
                                                  Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 19:20 -0500
                                    Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-27 18:53 +0000
                Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 00:08 -0500
                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-25 06:13 +0000
    Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 16:25 -0800
    Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 16:08 -0800
      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-20 00:40 +0000
        Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 15:51 -0800
          Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-21 00:34 +0000
            Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-21 14:37 +0000
              Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-21 19:32 +0000
                Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-22 14:50 +0000
                  Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 11:27 -0800
                    Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:44 +0000
                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:40 +0000
                    Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-23 14:13 +0000
                      Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:00 -0500
                        Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-24 13:20 +0000
                          Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 13:40 -0500
                            Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-25 13:44 +0000
                      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-23 18:47 +0000
                        Re: long antenna jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-24 13:20 +0000
                          Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 19:49 +0000
                            Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 16:36 -0600
                              Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-24 23:00 +0000
                                Re: long antenna gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-26 16:17 -0600
                                  Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-26 23:35 +0000
          Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 20:58 -0500
      Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 20:09 -0500
    Re: long antenna "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 12:51 -0800
      Re: long antenna benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 00:01 -0500
    Re: long antenna "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 15:36 -0800
      Re: long antenna jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-25 23:51 +0000

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]


#535091

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-24 13:40 -0500
Message-ID<Ka25y.201967$eK.72094@fx11.iad>
In reply to#535017
On 11/24/2015 08:20 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> benj wrote:
>> On 11/23/2015 09:13 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the explanation :-).  The second AM radio interference
>>>>> appeared last June; my current hypothesis is that some flavor of
>>>>> home security system is interfering but I haven't figured out how to
>>>>> test it.
>>>>
>>>> There are all sorts of things that will interfere with AM broadcast.
>>>>
>>>> There is currently a brouhaha over home improvement stores selling
>>>> industrial fluorescent light ballasts that are not marked as such
>>>> and are being put into homes. These ballasts generate huge amounts
>>>> of RFI, which is fine for the industrial environment.
>>>>
>>>> Some common sources of RFI: fluorescent lights, furnace ignitors,
>>>> electric fences, computer and networking systems, Uninterruptible Power
>>>> Supplies, motorized exercise equipment, bad wiring, grow lights.
>>>>
>>>> Use a battery powered AM radio as a sniffer and you may be able to
>>>> find the source. Try turning anything you may suspece off and on.
>>>
>>> I know it's not in the house.  Some day, I'll take my radio and
>>> try to triangulate the first interference.  I don't know how to
>>> investigate the second interference since the sound is constant
>>> and is turned off/on early in the morning.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK.  I'll look into filters.  When I lived in Mass., I bought an
>>>>> electric kitchen stove.  In order to listen to any AM radio, I had
>>>>> to unplug the stove; filters didn't stop the interference.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, not much you can do about that except complain BOTH to the
>>>> manufacturer and the FCC.
>>>
>>> I did complain to the stove manufacturer; the comment I got back
>>> from the tech is that "noone listens to AM radio anymore".
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what was causing it.  My hypothesis is that something
>>>>> having to do with road construction was the cause since it stopped
>>>>> right after Labor Day.
>>>>
>>>> Really weird.
>>>
>>> Yea.  note it's just a hypothesis but it's the only thing I can
>>> think of which is seasonal to match the dates of the problem.
>>>>
>>>>> I understand that.  When there is snow on the ground (even though
>>>>> there are leaves on the trees) I have a lot less problems with
>>>>> reception.  However, foliage shouldn't affect receiving a signal
>>>>> for an hour or so and then no signal after that.
>>>>
>>>> That is just probably marginal propagation, a better antenna should
>>>> cure that.
>>>>
>>>>> Everything is coax and the antenna is for digital.  It is not
>>>>> an outdoor antienna; I had a new roof put on the house and
>>>>> decided I didn't want any holes in it, so the outdoor antenna
>>>>> went away (it was not coax).
>>>>>
>>>>> I simply don't understand digial; no experiments with antenna
>>>>> postiioning works.  Some nights (I only have the TV on for
>>>>> a couple hours each night) going into the bathroom can
>>>>> interfere the reception; other nights moving my head while
>>>>> I sit in the chair will interfere; (my chair is on the other
>>>>> side of the antenna w.r.t. the tower).
>>>>
>>>> It is marginal signal propagation and being disturbed by things
>>>> around the house.
>>>
>>> I assumed that but shouldn't the disturbances be constant and
>>> reproducible w.r.t. position?  That's one of the things which
>>> puzzles me.
>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid the only solution for TV is a real, outside antenna
>>>> with coax.
>>>>
>>>> If you are dead set against holes in the roof, then a pole and
>>>> an eve bracket.
>>>
>>> Yea :-( Putting up an outside antenna doesn't guarantee reception
>>> if this palce in the midst of an interference whirlwind, especially
>>> if I'm in the eye.
>>>
>>> Anyway Congress is on my big shit list for selling off the analog.
>>>
>>> /BAH
>>
>> Well, yes and no. The new system really gives fine images when it's
>> working but it tends to cut out a lot. I live downtown and in the old
>> days the UHF channels (PBS) were always a mess. The signal was strong,
>> but bounced among the tall buildings creating havoc. Never got a decent
>> picture. Now video is just prime, but tends to cut in and out for no
>> apparent reason. The more things change.
>>
>> I also had a bad AM noise here. It would come and go. I tried using the
>> portable radio to track it, but failed. It was clearly in the
>> neighborhood and got weaker as you went further away, but was
>> transmitted all through the power distribution system so you couldn't
>> pinpoint it. My best guess was it was an industrial welder of some sort
>> in the neighborhood, but I never found it. Eventually as industry moved
>> out, the noise went with it.
>
> I never thought of a welder.  That could be in anybody's garage.  But
> if it were a welder, wouldn't the interference be gone during the night?

Pretty much it was, and it wasn't a constant thing either. Which is why 
I guessed it was some sort of industrial gear that was just used every 
now and then. I'll tell you though, it really tore up the AM band in the 
neighborhood when it was running...whatever it was.

>> Note that if some item is creating interference, you can complain to the
>> FCC and they will require the owner (for industry) or the manufacturer
>> to fix the problem. Telling you "nobody listens to AM" is not good
>> enough. They won't have to fix all the ones they make, but they will
>> have to come and install whatever filters it takes to solve YOUR problem.
>
> they did try a filter.  It didn't work and they gave up.

According to the FCC they aren't allowed to "give up". They are required 
to fix it or shut everything down. Persistent complaining can keep the 
dog chewing on their leg.

>> Same goes for jimp's Ham radio. If he's getting into his neighbor's TV
>> or radio, FCC will make him go and provide filters, advice, etc. to fix
>> the problem. Mostly hams are happy to do this and keep good relations
>> with the community.
>
> Legal hams are willing; the problems are the illegal hams.  Stores sell
> lots of "toys" which create havoc.  Lasers and drones have been
> making the news lately.

Of course "toys" etc. have power limitations that keep things sort of in 
check. Back in the old days when CB radio was popular lots of people who 
didn't want to bother with a Ham license, used to build high power 
"linears" for their CD radios. Totally illegal, of course, but could 
light up a whole neighborhood! Today, the internet has pretty much 
replaced all radio except as jimp said, for the Nostalgia crew.

Of course for lasers and drones, all the breathless media are always 
promoting that EVERY human activity needs to be "regulated" which to 
them means that everything you are allowed to do needs to first obtain 
permission to do so from your Liege. They all seem to be monarchists 
working for our king.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535327

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-11-25 13:44 +0000
Message-ID<PM0005255DE1E9D60C@aca42932.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#535091
benj wrote:
> On 11/24/2015 08:20 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> benj wrote:

<snip>

>>> I also had a bad AM noise here. It would come and go. I tried using the
>>> portable radio to track it, but failed. It was clearly in the
>>> neighborhood and got weaker as you went further away, but was
>>> transmitted all through the power distribution system so you couldn't
>>> pinpoint it. My best guess was it was an industrial welder of some sort
>>> in the neighborhood, but I never found it. Eventually as industry moved
>>> out, the noise went with it.
>>
>> I never thought of a welder.  That could be in anybody's garage.  But
>> if it were a welder, wouldn't the interference be gone during the night?
>
> Pretty much it was, and it wasn't a constant thing either. Which is why
> I guessed it was some sort of industrial gear that was just used every
> now and then. I'll tell you though, it really tore up the AM band in the
> neighborhood when it was running...whatever it was.

You just solved a mystery in my life :-).  I had a similar problem when
I lived in Mass. when town maintenance took over the fire station across
the street from my house.  Thanks.

>
>>> Note that if some item is creating interference, you can complain to the
>>> FCC and they will require the owner (for industry) or the manufacturer
>>> to fix the problem. Telling you "nobody listens to AM" is not good
>>> enough. They won't have to fix all the ones they make, but they will
>>> have to come and install whatever filters it takes to solve YOUR problem.
>>
>> they did try a filter.  It didn't work and they gave up.
>
> According to the FCC they aren't allowed to "give up". They are required
> to fix it or shut everything down. Persistent complaining can keep the
> dog chewing on their leg.

I didn't have the energy for that.  When I was done cooking, I unplugged
the stove.

>
>>> Same goes for jimp's Ham radio. If he's getting into his neighbor's TV
>>> or radio, FCC will make him go and provide filters, advice, etc. to fix
>>> the problem. Mostly hams are happy to do this and keep good relations
>>> with the community.
>>
>> Legal hams are willing; the problems are the illegal hams.  Stores sell
>> lots of "toys" which create havoc.  Lasers and drones have been
>> making the news lately.
>
> Of course "toys" etc. have power limitations that keep things sort of in
> check. Back in the old days when CB radio was popular lots of people who
> didn't want to bother with a Ham license, used to build high power
> "linears" for their CD radios. Totally illegal, of course, but could
> light up a whole neighborhood! Today, the internet has pretty much
> replaced all radio except as jimp said, for the Nostalgia crew.

That's a problem.  There won't be backups available for comm whenever
the power grid goes down.

>
> Of course for lasers and drones, all the breathless media are always
> promoting that EVERY human activity needs to be "regulated" which to
> them means that everything you are allowed to do needs to first obtain
> permission to do so from your Liege. They all seem to be monarchists
> working for our king.

Well, I heard a news item on the radio about Xmas outdoor decorations
emitting laser light which affected pilots...some kind of light show
IIRC the news item correctly.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#534857

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-11-23 18:47 +0000
Message-ID<ui3cic-rmp.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#534782
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the explanation :-).  The second AM radio interference
>>> appeared last June; my current hypothesis is that some flavor of
>>> home security system is interfering but I haven't figured out how to
>>> test it.
>>
>> There are all sorts of things that will interfere with AM broadcast.
>>
>> There is currently a brouhaha over home improvement stores selling
>> industrial fluorescent light ballasts that are not marked as such
>> and are being put into homes. These ballasts generate huge amounts
>> of RFI, which is fine for the industrial environment.
>>
>> Some common sources of RFI: fluorescent lights, furnace ignitors,
>> electric fences, computer and networking systems, Uninterruptible Power
>> Supplies, motorized exercise equipment, bad wiring, grow lights.
>>
>> Use a battery powered AM radio as a sniffer and you may be able to
>> find the source. Try turning anything you may suspece off and on.
> 
> I know it's not in the house.  Some day, I'll take my radio and
> try to triangulate the first interference.  I don't know how to
> investigate the second interference since the sound is constant
> and is turned off/on early in the morning.

Do search on RFI; there is a ton of material on the subject.

>>
>>> OK.  I'll look into filters.  When I lived in Mass., I bought an
>>> electric kitchen stove.  In order to listen to any AM radio, I had
>>> to unplug the stove; filters didn't stop the interference.
>>
>> Nope, not much you can do about that except complain BOTH to the
>> manufacturer and the FCC.
> 
> I did complain to the stove manufacturer; the comment I got back
> from the tech is that "noone listens to AM radio anymore".

At that point you should have contacted the FCC; they do take such
things seriously, and especially that sort of response.

>>
>>> I don't know what was causing it.  My hypothesis is that something
>>> having to do with road construction was the cause since it stopped
>>> right after Labor Day.
>>
>> Really weird.
> 
> Yea.  note it's just a hypothesis but it's the only thing I can
> think of which is seasonal to match the dates of the problem.
>>
>>> I understand that.  When there is snow on the ground (even though
>>> there are leaves on the trees) I have a lot less problems with
>>> reception.  However, foliage shouldn't affect receiving a signal
>>> for an hour or so and then no signal after that.
>>
>> That is just probably marginal propagation, a better antenna should
>> cure that.
>>
>>> Everything is coax and the antenna is for digital.  It is not
>>> an outdoor antienna; I had a new roof put on the house and
>>> decided I didn't want any holes in it, so the outdoor antenna
>>> went away (it was not coax).
>>>
>>> I simply don't understand digial; no experiments with antenna
>>> postiioning works.  Some nights (I only have the TV on for
>>> a couple hours each night) going into the bathroom can
>>> interfere the reception; other nights moving my head while
>>> I sit in the chair will interfere; (my chair is on the other
>>> side of the antenna w.r.t. the tower).
>>
>> It is marginal signal propagation and being disturbed by things
>> around the house.
> 
> I assumed that but shouldn't the disturbances be constant and
> reproducible w.r.t. position?  That's one of the things which
> puzzles me.

With marginal signal strength it is likely bouncing off all sorts
of things with the field at your antenna constantly changing as
things around you move; people, cars, clouds, etc.

>> I'm afraid the only solution for TV is a real, outside antenna
>> with coax.
>>
>> If you are dead set against holes in the roof, then a pole and
>> an eve bracket.
> 
> Yea :-( Putting up an outside antenna doesn't guarantee reception
> if this palce in the midst of an interference whirlwind, especially
> if I'm in the eye.

The issue is signal to noise ratio; an outside directional antenna
gets the signal way up with only a slight increase in noise.

> Anyway Congress is on my big shit list for selling off the analog.

I was cursing the issue while getting the problems sorted, but now
that they are...


-- 
Jim Pennino

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535019

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-11-24 13:20 +0000
Message-ID<PM00052549674C63BF@aca4008d.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#534857
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the explanation :-).  The second AM radio interference
>>>> appeared last June; my current hypothesis is that some flavor of
>>>> home security system is interfering but I haven't figured out how to
>>>> test it.
>>>
>>> There are all sorts of things that will interfere with AM broadcast.
>>>
>>> There is currently a brouhaha over home improvement stores selling
>>> industrial fluorescent light ballasts that are not marked as such
>>> and are being put into homes. These ballasts generate huge amounts
>>> of RFI, which is fine for the industrial environment.
>>>
>>> Some common sources of RFI: fluorescent lights, furnace ignitors,
>>> electric fences, computer and networking systems, Uninterruptible Power
>>> Supplies, motorized exercise equipment, bad wiring, grow lights.
>>>
>>> Use a battery powered AM radio as a sniffer and you may be able to
>>> find the source. Try turning anything you may suspece off and on.
>>
>> I know it's not in the house.  Some day, I'll take my radio and
>> try to triangulate the first interference.  I don't know how to
>> investigate the second interference since the sound is constant
>> and is turned off/on early in the morning.
>
> Do search on RFI; there is a ton of material on the subject.

Ah, thank you for the magic incantation.


>
>>>
>>>> OK.  I'll look into filters.  When I lived in Mass., I bought an
>>>> electric kitchen stove.  In order to listen to any AM radio, I had
>>>> to unplug the stove; filters didn't stop the interference.
>>>
>>> Nope, not much you can do about that except complain BOTH to the
>>> manufacturer and the FCC.
>>
>> I did complain to the stove manufacturer; the comment I got back
>> from the tech is that "noone listens to AM radio anymore".
>
> At that point you should have contacted the FCC; they do take such
> things seriously, and especially that sort of response.

Yea, I should have but I was the first customer to complain; I figured
it was useless to tell the FCC.


>
>>>
>>>> I don't know what was causing it.  My hypothesis is that something
>>>> having to do with road construction was the cause since it stopped
>>>> right after Labor Day.
>>>
>>> Really weird.
>>
>> Yea.  note it's just a hypothesis but it's the only thing I can
>> think of which is seasonal to match the dates of the problem.
>>>
>>>> I understand that.  When there is snow on the ground (even though
>>>> there are leaves on the trees) I have a lot less problems with
>>>> reception.  However, foliage shouldn't affect receiving a signal
>>>> for an hour or so and then no signal after that.
>>>
>>> That is just probably marginal propagation, a better antenna should
>>> cure that.
>>>
>>>> Everything is coax and the antenna is for digital.  It is not
>>>> an outdoor antienna; I had a new roof put on the house and
>>>> decided I didn't want any holes in it, so the outdoor antenna
>>>> went away (it was not coax).
>>>>
>>>> I simply don't understand digial; no experiments with antenna
>>>> postiioning works.  Some nights (I only have the TV on for
>>>> a couple hours each night) going into the bathroom can
>>>> interfere the reception; other nights moving my head while
>>>> I sit in the chair will interfere; (my chair is on the other
>>>> side of the antenna w.r.t. the tower).
>>>
>>> It is marginal signal propagation and being disturbed by things
>>> around the house.
>>
>> I assumed that but shouldn't the disturbances be constant and
>> reproducible w.r.t. position?  That's one of the things which
>> puzzles me.
>
> With marginal signal strength it is likely bouncing off all sorts
> of things with the field at your antenna constantly changing as
> things around you move; people, cars, clouds, etc.

Should I make notes on wind speed and direction?

>
>>> I'm afraid the only solution for TV is a real, outside antenna
>>> with coax.
>>>
>>> If you are dead set against holes in the roof, then a pole and
>>> an eve bracket.
>>
>> Yea :-( Putting up an outside antenna doesn't guarantee reception
>> if this palce in the midst of an interference whirlwind, especially
>> if I'm in the eye.
>
> The issue is signal to noise ratio; an outside directional antenna
> gets the signal way up with only a slight increase in noise.
>
>> Anyway Congress is on my big shit list for selling off the analog.
>
> I was cursing the issue while getting the problems sorted, but now
> that they are...

What most people did was buy cable.  So any ongoing problems
remain hidden.  I priced it last week.  The
cheapest is $70 plus $7/TV in the house; that doesn't include
algoric fees and taxes.  So I figure about $100/month for an
hour's worth of TV viewing each day.  Short & curlies is
becoming the norm.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535147

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-11-24 19:49 +0000
Message-ID<4jreic-d0e.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#535019
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the explanation :-).  The second AM radio interference
>>>>> appeared last June; my current hypothesis is that some flavor of
>>>>> home security system is interfering but I haven't figured out how to
>>>>> test it.
>>>>
>>>> There are all sorts of things that will interfere with AM broadcast.
>>>>
>>>> There is currently a brouhaha over home improvement stores selling
>>>> industrial fluorescent light ballasts that are not marked as such
>>>> and are being put into homes. These ballasts generate huge amounts
>>>> of RFI, which is fine for the industrial environment.
>>>>
>>>> Some common sources of RFI: fluorescent lights, furnace ignitors,
>>>> electric fences, computer and networking systems, Uninterruptible Power
>>>> Supplies, motorized exercise equipment, bad wiring, grow lights.
>>>>
>>>> Use a battery powered AM radio as a sniffer and you may be able to
>>>> find the source. Try turning anything you may suspece off and on.
>>>
>>> I know it's not in the house.  Some day, I'll take my radio and
>>> try to triangulate the first interference.  I don't know how to
>>> investigate the second interference since the sound is constant
>>> and is turned off/on early in the morning.
>>
>> Do search on RFI; there is a ton of material on the subject.
> 
> Ah, thank you for the magic incantation.
> 
> 
>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK.  I'll look into filters.  When I lived in Mass., I bought an
>>>>> electric kitchen stove.  In order to listen to any AM radio, I had
>>>>> to unplug the stove; filters didn't stop the interference.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, not much you can do about that except complain BOTH to the
>>>> manufacturer and the FCC.
>>>
>>> I did complain to the stove manufacturer; the comment I got back
>>> from the tech is that "noone listens to AM radio anymore".
>>
>> At that point you should have contacted the FCC; they do take such
>> things seriously, and especially that sort of response.
> 
> Yea, I should have but I was the first customer to complain; I figured
> it was useless to tell the FCC.

Nope, if such happens again, complain long and hard to the company
and to the FCC. A company making consumer items is required to NOT
cause interference and to NOT be subject to interference from other
legal sources.

>>>>> I don't know what was causing it.  My hypothesis is that something
>>>>> having to do with road construction was the cause since it stopped
>>>>> right after Labor Day.
>>>>
>>>> Really weird.
>>>
>>> Yea.  note it's just a hypothesis but it's the only thing I can
>>> think of which is seasonal to match the dates of the problem.
>>>>
>>>>> I understand that.  When there is snow on the ground (even though
>>>>> there are leaves on the trees) I have a lot less problems with
>>>>> reception.  However, foliage shouldn't affect receiving a signal
>>>>> for an hour or so and then no signal after that.
>>>>
>>>> That is just probably marginal propagation, a better antenna should
>>>> cure that.
>>>>
>>>>> Everything is coax and the antenna is for digital.  It is not
>>>>> an outdoor antienna; I had a new roof put on the house and
>>>>> decided I didn't want any holes in it, so the outdoor antenna
>>>>> went away (it was not coax).
>>>>>
>>>>> I simply don't understand digial; no experiments with antenna
>>>>> postiioning works.  Some nights (I only have the TV on for
>>>>> a couple hours each night) going into the bathroom can
>>>>> interfere the reception; other nights moving my head while
>>>>> I sit in the chair will interfere; (my chair is on the other
>>>>> side of the antenna w.r.t. the tower).
>>>>
>>>> It is marginal signal propagation and being disturbed by things
>>>> around the house.
>>>
>>> I assumed that but shouldn't the disturbances be constant and
>>> reproducible w.r.t. position?  That's one of the things which
>>> puzzles me.
>>
>> With marginal signal strength it is likely bouncing off all sorts
>> of things with the field at your antenna constantly changing as
>> things around you move; people, cars, clouds, etc.
> 
> Should I make notes on wind speed and direction?

That might be taking it a bit far.

>>>> I'm afraid the only solution for TV is a real, outside antenna
>>>> with coax.
>>>>
>>>> If you are dead set against holes in the roof, then a pole and
>>>> an eve bracket.
>>>
>>> Yea :-( Putting up an outside antenna doesn't guarantee reception
>>> if this palce in the midst of an interference whirlwind, especially
>>> if I'm in the eye.
>>
>> The issue is signal to noise ratio; an outside directional antenna
>> gets the signal way up with only a slight increase in noise.
>>
>>> Anyway Congress is on my big shit list for selling off the analog.
>>
>> I was cursing the issue while getting the problems sorted, but now
>> that they are...
> 
> What most people did was buy cable.  So any ongoing problems
> remain hidden.  I priced it last week.  The
> cheapest is $70 plus $7/TV in the house; that doesn't include
> algoric fees and taxes.  So I figure about $100/month for an
> hour's worth of TV viewing each day.  Short & curlies is
> becoming the norm.

Or a month or two of fees for an outside antenna which should last
at least a decade.


-- 
Jim Pennino

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535219

Fromgilber34 <fafa@invalid.com>
Date2015-11-24 16:36 -0600
Message-ID<n32op9$k7u$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#535147
>
> Or a month or two of fees for an outside antenna which should last
> at least a decade.
>
>


better go look at outside TV signals first,
most are total crap now,
many gone to foreign language or just gone.
it is not like it was 5 years ago at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535232

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-11-24 23:00 +0000
Message-ID<2q6fic-59f.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#535219
gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Or a month or two of fees for an outside antenna which should last
>> at least a decade.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> better go look at outside TV signals first,
> most are total crap now,
> many gone to foreign language or just gone.
> it is not like it was 5 years ago at all.
 
If the inside the house antenna already sees weak signals, guess what
an outside the house antenna mounted up in the air will see.

If this is too hard for you, go read the ARRL handbook and get a clue.


-- 
Jim Pennino

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535726

Fromgilber34 <fafa@invalid.com>
Date2015-11-26 16:17 -0600
Message-ID<n380ed$fmo$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#535232
On 11/24/2015 5:00 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Or a month or two of fees for an outside antenna which should last
>>> at least a decade.
>>>

>>
>>
>> better go look at outside TV signals first,
>> most are total crap now,
>> many gone to foreign language or just gone.
>> it is not like it was 5 years ago at all.
>
> If the inside the house antenna already sees weak signals, guess what
> an outside the house antenna mounted up in the air will see.
>
> If this is too hard for you, go read the ARRL handbook and get a clue.
>
>

signals are ok, just the programming on the local channels you can 
pickup are crap, now Spanish, religious, one movie channel here though.
they turned crap when the went digital, lost avitizors to cable TV and 
internet.

the still Ammeraturish ARRL doodlebook *might refuse* to discuss 
business cases of TV channels losing major advitorzers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535747

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-11-26 23:35 +0000
Message-ID<mjhkic-j44.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#535726
gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/24/2015 5:00 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or a month or two of fees for an outside antenna which should last
>>>> at least a decade.
>>>>
> 
>>>
>>>
>>> better go look at outside TV signals first,
>>> most are total crap now,
>>> many gone to foreign language or just gone.
>>> it is not like it was 5 years ago at all.
>>
>> If the inside the house antenna already sees weak signals, guess what
>> an outside the house antenna mounted up in the air will see.
>>
>> If this is too hard for you, go read the ARRL handbook and get a clue.
>>
>>
> 
> signals are ok, just the programming on the local channels you can 
> pickup are crap, now Spanish, religious, one movie channel here though.
> they turned crap when the went digital, lost avitizors to cable TV and 
> internet.

Programming content is irrelevant to the discussion of signal strength.

> the still Ammeraturish ARRL doodlebook *might refuse* to discuss 
> business cases of TV channels losing major advitorzers.

The ARRL has no interest in the business of TV.

The ARRL does however provide a lot of learning tools to learn the
basics of RF technology that even an idiot like you could understand
if you gave it a chance.



-- 
Jim Pennino

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#534320

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-20 20:58 -0500
Message-ID<BdQ3y.127503$yo1.56672@fx23.iad>
In reply to#534296
On 11/20/2015 06:51 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 4:46:06 PM UTC-8, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> reber g=emc^2 <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
>>>> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter
>>>> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I
>>>> wanted to place it at a distance.
>>>> The cord is the antenna.
>>>>
>>>> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.
>>>> I figured the longer line should improve performance,
>>>> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone explain the physics here?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rich
>>>
>>> FM goes through walls better than AM you can get music from Hawaii to Calif.Ham radio goes with AM. TreBert
>>
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> Broadcast AM goes through walls much better than broadcast FM.
>>
>> The HAM radio use of AM is about the same as hunting with a bow and arrow,
>> only used these days by a few nostalgics.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Pennino
>
> Bow an Arrow have lots going for them.AM has lots going for it to cover 1,000s of miles.TreBert
>
Herb, AM covers a lot more ground than a bow and arrow.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#534126

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-19 20:09 -0500
Message-ID<lpu3y.143085$1Z.102322@fx01.iad>
In reply to#534115
On 11/19/2015 07:08 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
>> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter
>> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I
>> wanted to place it at a distance.
>> The cord is the antenna.
>>
>> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.
>> I figured the longer line should improve performance,
>> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
>>
>> Can anyone explain the physics here?
>>
>> --
>> Rich
>
> FM goes through walls better than AM you can get music from Hawaii to Calif.Ham radio goes with AM. TreBert
>
Old man, your drool cup is running over. Ring for your nurse.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535175

From"nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-24 12:51 -0800
Message-ID<16982981-b2da-4e63-8e36-4ad6e95516c1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533801
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter 
> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I 
> wanted to place it at a distance.
> The cord is the antenna.

  The extension also has three wires? How are they terminated? How long is the whole assembly in re: the wavelength used by the station you want to listen to? How was it oriented with respect to a line drawn between you and the station?

> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.  
> I figured the longer line should improve performance, 
> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
> 
> Can anyone explain the physics here?

  Do you want the physics or do you just want the damned thing to work?

  If the latter, you're in what's called "long wire antenna" territory. If you want practical information you should go to the nearest library and find the American Radio Relay League (A.R.R.L.) Antenna Book. It contains everything you want, and need, to know about your problem. You can also buy it in dead-tree format, or download it off the internet.


  Mark L. Fergerson

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535291

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-25 00:01 -0500
Message-ID<1hb5y.97063$og6.10826@fx06.iad>
In reply to#535175
On 11/24/2015 03:51 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
>> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter
>> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I
>> wanted to place it at a distance.
>> The cord is the antenna.
>
>    The extension also has three wires? How are they terminated? How long is the whole assembly in re: the wavelength used by the station you want to listen to? How was it oriented with respect to a line drawn between you and the station?
>
>> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.
>> I figured the longer line should improve performance,
>> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
>>
>> Can anyone explain the physics here?
>
>    Do you want the physics or do you just want the damned thing to work?
>
>    If the latter, you're in what's called "long wire antenna" territory. If you want practical information you should go to the nearest library and find the American Radio Relay League (A.R.R.L.) Antenna Book. It contains everything you want, and need, to know about your problem. You can also buy it in dead-tree format, or download it off the internet.

Mark, learning what you are talking about is such a pain in the butt and 
so much work. Life is so much easier if you just make it all up in your 
head, and believe your own fantasies. Just ask HVAC. Works for him!



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535490

From"reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-25 15:36 -0800
Message-ID<c47d21ca-5f3d-453d-a54d-9219413d2738@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533801
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter 
> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I 
> wanted to place it at a distance.
> The cord is the antenna.
> 
> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.  
> I figured the longer line should improve performance, 
> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
> 
> Can anyone explain the physics here?
> 
> --
> Rich

At 800 feet down can a sub watch CNN news with out sending up a float. TreBert

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#535505

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2015-11-25 23:51 +0000
Message-ID<b5uhic-5co.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#535490
reber g=emc^2 <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 10:42:09 AM UTC-8, RichD wrote:
>> During my workout yesterday, I attached a 3 meter 
>> extension to the earphone cord of my radio, as I 
>> wanted to place it at a distance.
>> The cord is the antenna.
>> 
>> I was indoors, where the reception is usually crummy.  
>> I figured the longer line should improve performance, 
>> right?  No!  The reception was barely decipherable.
>> 
>> Can anyone explain the physics here?
>> 
>> --
>> Rich
> 
> At 800 feet down can a sub watch CNN news with out sending up a float. TreBert

No one would want to.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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