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Groups > sci.physics > #544496 > unrolled thread

Newsgroup censorship

Started byPeter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk>
First post2016-01-11 10:41 -0800
Last post2016-01-13 10:16 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 108 — 19 participants

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Contents

  Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 10:41 -0800
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 12:55 -0600
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 11:16 -0800
        Re: Newsgroup censorship Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:43 -0600
          Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:04 -0500
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-11 16:29 -0600
        Re: Newsgroup censorship "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 15:54 -0800
          Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 02:48 -0800
            Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 06:06 -0800
              Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 07:12 -0800
                Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:16 -0500
                Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 23:27 -0800
                Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 10:20 -0800
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 10:25 -0800
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 10:30 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 05:58 -0800
        Re: Newsgroup censorship moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-12 16:14 +0000
          Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:36 -0800
    Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-11 19:27 +0000
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 15:21 -0600
      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:22 -0500
        Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:41 -0600
          Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 17:11 -0800
            Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:55 -0600
    Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 13:42 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-11 22:22 +0000
        Re: Newsgroup censorship Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-11 16:34 -0600
          Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 14:57 -0800
            Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 20:45 -0500
              Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 20:34 -0600
                Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 22:01 -0500
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 07:59 -0600
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:26 -0500
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:11 -0600
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:58 -0500
                          Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:07 -0600
                            Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 00:22 -0500
                              Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 08:01 -0600
        Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 14:51 -0800
          Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 00:32 +0000
            Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 18:00 -0800
              Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 02:16 +0000
                Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:12 -0800
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:34 -0800
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 06:19 +0000
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 23:10 -0800
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 18:35 +0000
                          Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 11:05 -0800
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 03:39 +0000
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 23:06 -0800
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 23:28 -0800
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-12 14:33 -0600
                Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 22:17 -0500
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-12 03:41 +0000
          Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 17:07 -0800
            Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:47 -0600
              Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 21:53 -0500
                Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 07:57 -0600
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:21 -0500
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:05 -0600
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 12:12 -0800
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:32 -0600
                          Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:04 -0500
                            Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:09 -0600
                              Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 00:24 -0500
                                Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 08:03 -0600
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:55 -0500
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 17:04 -0600
                          Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 00:21 -0500
              Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 20:16 -0800
                Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:33 -0600
              Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 21:02 -0800
                Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:37 -0600
                  Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-12 16:04 -0800
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 16:17 -0800
                    Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:43 -0600
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:48 -0800
                      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 17:51 -0500
                        Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 14:19 -0600
            Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 18:13 -0800
              Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 20:37 -0600
                Re: Newsgroup censorship pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-11 19:27 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:33 -0500
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 15:54 -0600
      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 17:35 -0500
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-12 13:40 +1100
      Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 22:08 -0500
      Re: Newsgroup censorship R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2016-01-12 03:13 +0000
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 20:56 -0800
        Re: Newsgroup censorship Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-12 22:21 +1100
        Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:34 -0600
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 22:00 -0800
    Re: Newsgroup censorship jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-12 13:40 +0000
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Catherine Jefferson <spamtrap@spambouncer.org> - 2016-01-12 08:42 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 11:04 -0600
      Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 09:13 -0800
    Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 11:26 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:09 -0600
        Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 12:27 -0800
          Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 14:38 -0600
            Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 12:54 -0800
          Re: Newsgroup censorship benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:00 -0500
    Re: Newsgroup censorship Rock Brentwood <federation2005@netzero.com> - 2016-01-12 17:28 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 20:23 -0800
        Re: Newsgroup censorship "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 07:54 -0800
    Re: Newsgroup censorship James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 09:58 -0800
      Re: Newsgroup censorship Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 12:13 -0600
        Re: Newsgroup censorship HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 10:16 -0800

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#544647

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-11 20:37 -0600
Message-ID<n71ots$1bc6$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544640
On 1/11/2016 8:13 PM, James McGinn wrote:

> Usenet is mostly idiots.
>

Then why are you casting pearls before swine?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#544668

Frompnalsing@gmail.com
Date2016-01-11 19:27 -0800
Message-ID<795cbe41-3c6d-48f2-ae58-e412bce0ca55@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544647
On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 6:37:54 PM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/11/2016 8:13 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> 
> > Usenet is mostly idiots.
> >
> 
> Then why are you casting pearls before swine?

Absolutely the best comic strip these days...

http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine

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#544579

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-11 17:33 -0500
Message-ID<R4Wky.110818$IX3.58078@fx36.iad>
In reply to#544553
On 01/11/2016 04:42 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence.
>
> Peter, IMO, newsgroups in general are a waste of time when it comes to scientific advances and discoveries.  And academia is worse.  The way forward is to make your case directly to the public in video.  Just a suggestion.
>
True, assuming one can stay alive long enough for word to get out.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#544556

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-11 15:54 -0600
Message-ID<n718af$jja$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544496
On 1/11/2016 12:41 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank
> or coordinated silence.

In an unmoderated newsgroup, the form of response is uncontrolled and 
therefore being called a crank is not out of bounds, because ... well, 
because it's unmoderated. If you encounter silence, consider the 
possibility that it is in no way coordinated, but that instead you were 
unable to muster sufficient interest from anyone to warrant a response. 
Remember that in a newsgroup, you are not owed a response.

> Moderated newsgroups like to give reasons for rejections
> but they do not hesitate to resort to hypocrisy, double standards and the absurd.
> Replies to their judgments are forbidden and appeals, the foundation of a fair
> justice system, are absent.

A moderated forum, whether that is a publisher of short stories or a 
cable TV station, does not owe you reasons for rejection. They may not 
even give you the courtesy of a "No thank you", in which case your 
submission would just go into the round file with no response.

You have the expectation of being given REASONS for not being heeded, 
which is an irrational and unrealistic expectation.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#544581

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-11 17:35 -0500
Message-ID<47Wky.110819$IX3.79916@fx36.iad>
In reply to#544556
On 01/11/2016 04:54 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/11/2016 12:41 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being
>> called a crank
>> or coordinated silence.
>
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, the form of response is uncontrolled and
> therefore being called a crank is not out of bounds, because ... well,
> because it's unmoderated. If you encounter silence, consider the
> possibility that it is in no way coordinated, but that instead you were
> unable to muster sufficient interest from anyone to warrant a response.
> Remember that in a newsgroup, you are not owed a response.
>
>> Moderated newsgroups like to give reasons for rejections
>> but they do not hesitate to resort to hypocrisy, double standards and
>> the absurd.
>> Replies to their judgments are forbidden and appeals, the foundation
>> of a fair
>> justice system, are absent.
>
> A moderated forum, whether that is a publisher of short stories or a
> cable TV station, does not owe you reasons for rejection. They may not
> even give you the courtesy of a "No thank you", in which case your
> submission would just go into the round file with no response.
>
> You have the expectation of being given REASONS for not being heeded,
> which is an irrational and unrealistic expectation.

Correct. Money talks and bullshit walks. What use is having power if you 
don't use it to further your personal agenda?  The advancement of human 
civilization or society in general is irrelevant.



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#544648

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-01-12 13:40 +1100
Message-ID<dfj7cdF37vjU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#544496
On 12/01/2016 5:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> Newsgroup censorship
>
> All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental right
> to have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity and
> intellectual activity, and to express their thoughts publicly.
>

What a strange notion.

Here in Australia, with the singular exception of "political speech", 
all expression is within the gift of the government. When I am allowed 
to express my ideas, it's only because the government has not seen fit 
to prohibit it, which it could do.

A citizen of the UK doesn't even have a right to political free speech, 
and the government could prohibit any kind of speech there that it 
wanted to.

Sylvia.

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#544654

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-11 22:08 -0500
Message-ID<q6_ky.83613$m53.33746@fx33.iad>
In reply to#544648
On 01/11/2016 09:40 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 5:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>> Newsgroup censorship
>>
>> All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental right
>> to have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity and
>> intellectual activity, and to express their thoughts publicly.
>>
>
> What a strange notion.
>
> Here in Australia, with the singular exception of "political speech",
> all expression is within the gift of the government. When I am allowed
> to express my ideas, it's only because the government has not seen fit
> to prohibit it, which it could do.
>
> A citizen of the UK doesn't even have a right to political free speech,
> and the government could prohibit any kind of speech there that it
> wanted to.
>
> Sylvia.

Listen to Sylvia, Peter. That is the history of Western Civilization. 
All rights are GRANTED by those in power. You BEG your liege for 
permission to speak. Understand that and life will go a lot easier for you!



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#544660

FromR Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com>
Date2016-01-12 03:13 +0000
Message-ID<n71r0i$1e3c$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544648
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 5:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>> Newsgroup censorship
>>
>> All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental right
>> to have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity and
>> intellectual activity, and to express their thoughts publicly.
>>
> 
> What a strange notion.
> 
> Here in Australia, with the singular exception of "political speech", 
> all expression is within the gift of the government. When I am allowed 
> to express my ideas, it's only because the government has not seen fit 
> to prohibit it, which it could do.
> 
> A citizen of the UK doesn't even have a right to political free speech, 
> and the government could prohibit any kind of speech there that it 
> wanted to.
> 
> Sylvia.
> 
> 

I think it's much the same everywhere. Freedom of speech is a theoretical construct
filed under Bread and Circuses to keep the public happy they have some rights.
In Canada, Australia and the US if you work for the govt you obviously can't say 
anything that upsets the govt, and from what I understand you can't say anything
that upsets the boss if you work for anyone.

About the only people that get to say anything are American billionaires and
the CIA has spiked their drinks to make them sound insane all the time, so again 
it's just a theoretical freedom.

-- 
Public notice: I am not liable for the debts created by this person:
<http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/xx_factor/2014/03/03/
kim_novak_liza_minnelli_and_june_squibb_at_the_oscars_how_hollywood_treats/
476343299-actress-kim-novak-attends-the-oscars-held-at-hollywood.jpg.CROP.
promo-mediumlarge.jpg>

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#544679

FromPeter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-01-11 20:56 -0800
Message-ID<2295a96a-a1fe-461d-b16f-e3e04bad868f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544648
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:40:18 AM UTC+8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 5:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> > Newsgroup censorship
> >
> > All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental right
> > to have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity and
> > intellectual activity, and to express their thoughts publicly.
> >
> 
> What a strange notion.
> 
> Here in Australia, with the singular exception of "political speech", 
> all expression is within the gift of the government. When I am allowed 
> to express my ideas, it's only because the government has not seen fit 
> to prohibit it, which it could do.
> 
> A citizen of the UK doesn't even have a right to political free speech, 
> and the government could prohibit any kind of speech there that it 
> wanted to.
> 
> Sylvia.

I am of a naive mindset believing free speech etc is a universal human right. Also while in past years I participated in political activities I now only have an interest in science. Which of the three, religion, politics or science, should in your opinion be open to public comments from an ordinary citizen?

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#544732

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-01-12 22:21 +1100
Message-ID<dfk5ucFa90oU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#544679
On 12/01/2016 3:56 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:40:18 AM UTC+8, Sylvia Else
> wrote:
>> On 12/01/2016 5:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>> Newsgroup censorship
>>>
>>> All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental
>>> right to have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity
>>> and intellectual activity, and to express their thoughts
>>> publicly.
>>>
>>
>> What a strange notion.
>>
>> Here in Australia, with the singular exception of "political
>> speech", all expression is within the gift of the government. When
>> I am allowed to express my ideas, it's only because the government
>> has not seen fit to prohibit it, which it could do.
>>
>> A citizen of the UK doesn't even have a right to political free
>> speech, and the government could prohibit any kind of speech there
>> that it wanted to.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> I am of a naive mindset believing free speech etc is a universal
> human right. Also while in past years I participated in political
> activities I now only have an interest in science. Which of the
> three, religion, politics or science, should in your opinion be open
> to public comments from an ordinary citizen?
>

Even in the absence of the government seeking to restrain speech to 
protect its own political interest (which it *probably* can't do in 
Australia, at least theoretically), the idealistic notion of free speech 
becomes problematic once one starts to look at the details.

For example, hate speech. Is that acceptable? What about incitement to 
commit crimes? To commit terrorism?

Sylvia.

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#544768

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 09:34 -0600
Message-ID<n736dk$1k37$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544679
On 1/11/2016 10:56 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> I am of a naive mindset believing free speech etc is a universal human right.

You do have free speech. The right to free speech does not extend to any 
venue of your choice. If you believe it should, then you are indeed 
naive. Very naive.

> Also while in past years I participated in political activities I now only have
> an interest in science. Which of the three, religion, politics or science, should
> in your opinion be open to public comments from an ordinary citizen?


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#544684

FromPeter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-01-11 22:00 -0800
Message-ID<7e98c12d-1311-4980-8f2f-5db3d96dbc87@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544496
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 1:10:50 PM UTC+8, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> In sci.physics, in article
> <7b40664d-02ab-417e-8016-c8bf51432315@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Riedt <rie...@yahoo.co.uk> posted:
> > 
> > Newsgroup censorship 
> > 
> > All persons in the democracies of the West have the
> > fundamental right to have access to all expressions of
> > knowledge, creativity and intellectual activity, and to
> > express their thoughts publicly. 
> > 
> > Newsgroups have a basic responsibility for the
> > development and maintenance of intellectual freedom and
> > the responsibility to guarantee and facilitate access to
> > all expressions of knowledge and intellectual activity,
> > including those which some some elements of society may
> > consider to be unconventional, unpopular or unacceptable.
> > Newsgroups should resist all efforts to limit the
> > exercise of these responsibilities while recognizing the
> > right of criticism by individuals and groups. 
> > 
> > I have been denied these rights by the newsgroup
> > sci.physics.research for trying to post four articles.
> > The first (The value of G) made it but was killed after
> > the first reply because my arguments "were circular". The
> > other three were rejected outright. The excuse for the
> > second (The mass of the Sun) was "I had already been told
> > to cease posting after my first thread The value of G".
> > The third post (The aether, Michelson and Einstein) was
> > rejected for being "too speculative". The fourth post
> > (The aether and Einstein) was rejected because "I used
> > Einstein to support my arguments". It was also stated
> > that a post rejected by a moderated newsgroup would also
> > be rejected by other newsgroups. 
> > 
> > In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by
> > abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence.
> > Moderated newsgroups like to give reasons for rejections
> > but they do not hesitate to resort to hypocrisy, double
> > standards and the absurd. Replies to their judgments are
> > forbidden and appeals, the foundation of a fair justice
> > system, are absent. 
> > 
> > Peter Riedt 
> 
> Your post is available for others to read; there's no
> censorship in unmoderated newsgroups. You have the
> freedom to ignore or react to the follow-ups to your
> post. All appears to be well.
> 
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
> 
> http://bit.do/jaimaharaj

Yes, Om Shanti.

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#544745

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2016-01-12 13:40 +0000
Message-ID<PM000529232B0BEC3A@aca40449.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#544496
Peter Riedt wrote:
> Newsgroup censorship
>
> All persons in the democracies of the West have the fundamental right to
have access to all expressions of knowledge, creativity and intellectual
activity, and to express their thoughts publicly.
>
> Newsgroups have a basic responsibility for the development and
> maintenance of intellectual freedom and the responsibility to guarantee and
facilitate access to all expressions of knowledge and
> intellectual activity, including those which some some elements
> of society may consider to be unconventional, unpopular or unacceptable.
Newsgroups should resist all efforts to limit the exercise of these
responsibilities while recognizing the right of criticism by individuals and
groups.
>
> I have been denied these rights by the newsgroup sci.physics.research for
trying to post four articles. The first (The value of G) made it but was
killed after the first reply because my arguments "were circular". The other
three were rejected outright. The excuse for the second (The mass of the Sun)
was "I had already been told to cease posting after my first thread The value
of G". The third post (The aether, Michelson and Einstein) was rejected for
being "too speculative". The fourth post (The aether and Einstein) was
rejected because "I used Einstein to support my arguments". It was also stated
that a post rejected by a moderated newsgroup would also be rejected by other
newsgroups.
>
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a
crank or coordinated silence. Moderated newsgroups like to give reasons for
rejections but they do not hesitate to resort to hypocrisy, double standards
and the absurd. Replies to their judgments are forbidden and appeals, the
foundation of a fair justice system, are absent.

You are writing nonsense.  Go read the specs about newsgroups.  There
was a reason for creating moderated newsgroups.  Whinging about not
being allowed in them demonstrates that you don't do serious work.
If you really want to do serious work, then start studying.

/BAH

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#544791

FromCatherine Jefferson <spamtrap@spambouncer.org>
Date2016-01-12 08:42 -0800
Message-ID<n73adf$7da$1@news.sosdg.org>
In reply to#544496
On 1/11/2016 10:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being
> called a crank or coordinated silence. Moderated newsgroups like to
> give reasons for rejections but they do not hesitate to resort to
> hypocrisy, double standards and the absurd. Replies to their
> judgments are forbidden and appeals, the foundation of a fair justice
> system, are absent.

Abuse, being called a crank, or coordinated silence are not censorship.
 They're voluntary responses to posts and posters whom other
participants in the newsgroup believe are cranks or posting worthless
content.  Other posters have the same rights to hold and express
opinions about you and your posts as you do about them and their posts.

The word "censorship" has a meaning, and the reality of censorship is
ugly.  I don't want the word to lose its meaning because somebody
misuses the term to describe voluntary actions that show disapproval of
their posts.

<back to lurking>


-- 
Catherine Jefferson <tw86034@ergosphere.net>
Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net

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#544797

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 11:04 -0600
Message-ID<n73bmv$1u42$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544791
On 1/12/2016 10:42 AM, Catherine Jefferson wrote:
> On 1/11/2016 10:41 AM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being
>> called a crank or coordinated silence. Moderated newsgroups like to
>> give reasons for rejections but they do not hesitate to resort to
>> hypocrisy, double standards and the absurd. Replies to their
>> judgments are forbidden and appeals, the foundation of a fair justice
>> system, are absent.
>
> Abuse, being called a crank, or coordinated silence are not censorship.
>   They're voluntary responses to posts and posters whom other
> participants in the newsgroup believe are cranks or posting worthless
> content.  Other posters have the same rights to hold and express
> opinions about you and your posts as you do about them and their posts.
>
> The word "censorship" has a meaning, and the reality of censorship is
> ugly.  I don't want the word to lose its meaning because somebody
> misuses the term to describe voluntary actions that show disapproval of
> their posts.
>
> <back to lurking>
>

Agree with you.

Getting comments back that the OP finds insulting is in fact BECAUSE the 
group is unmoderated, and respondents can say what they'd like.

What the OP wants is a SAFE place to make posts that are critical of 
mainstream physics, but where there would be no comments that are 
critical of those posts in return. What the OP wants is attention and 
encouragement and POSITIVE feedback, which the kind of thing you might 
hope for from your mother, but not from an unmoderated newsgroup.

OP would do well to grow up a little. Maybe get a more aggressive push 
in that direction from his mother.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#544801

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 09:13 -0800
Message-ID<0acb9649-16dd-4674-a580-18cdd372b4ce@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544791
In the past couple of months, some "American women whose names I don't remember have called on all American women to wear headscarves in public to show support for and solidarity with Muslim women in America".
--------------

Since it is Muslims who are the ones doing the bombings, plus the fact that they are now a part of America, it is incumbent upon Muslim women to ditch the wearing of the uniform of the terrorist....
The hijab and the burka.

Until that time, all Americans should (non violently ofc) make fun of people dressed in this circa 1300 ad garb. Point at them. Laugh at them. Shame them. Let them know that they have a duty to assimilate into the modern culture of America.
Just like every other minority that had come here and done... They get no pass because they are Muslim.

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#544839

FromJames McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 11:26 -0800
Message-ID<3c9eee8b-0ecc-45ab-80dd-a95a594b4393@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544496
In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence. 

I agree. Unmoderated NGs are just a haven for trolls. But a moderated NG, especially sci.physics.research, is no different in that the moderators are the trolls. 

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#544846

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 14:09 -0600
Message-ID<n73mh8$jt8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544839
On 1/12/2016 1:26 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence.
>
> I agree. Unmoderated NGs are just a haven for trolls. But a moderated NG, especially sci.physics.research,
> is no different in that the moderators are the trolls.
>

Then it seems you have chosen wisely where you spend your time -- a 
place you identify as only a haven for trolls.

People have the strangest motivations.

John Sefton, for example, doesn't really like the scientific method, 
doesn't believe its outcomes or its viability. Which is why he frequents 
the discussions on a science newsgroup. Go figure.

You post news of your work to a newsgroup you disparage as being nothing 
but a haven for trolls. Go figure.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#544851

FromJames McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 12:27 -0800
Message-ID<45cec23a-e712-48b2-8e77-e5cf4cf16755@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#544846
On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 12:09:18 PM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/12/2016 1:26 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> > In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence.
> >
> > I agree. Unmoderated NGs are just a haven for trolls. But a moderated NG, especially sci.physics.research,
> > is no different in that the moderators are the trolls.
> >
> 
> Then it seems you have chosen wisely where you spend your time -- a 
> place you identify as only a haven for trolls.
> 
> People have the strangest motivations.
> 
> John Sefton, for example, doesn't really like the scientific method, 
> doesn't believe its outcomes or its viability. Which is why he frequents 
> the discussions on a science newsgroup. Go figure.

Who cares.  You have nothing interesting to say, yet you keep saying it.  NGs are filled with inane pretenders like yourself.  The scientific method is taught to high school students.  Yet it, the scientific method, is the closest thing to a point you've ever had. You are a pedantic fool.


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#544860

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-12 14:38 -0600
Message-ID<n73o85$mm6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#544851
On 1/12/2016 2:27 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 12:09:18 PM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 1/12/2016 1:26 PM, James McGinn wrote:
>>> In an unmoderated newsgroup, censorship is applied by abuse, being called a crank or coordinated silence.
>>>
>>> I agree. Unmoderated NGs are just a haven for trolls. But a moderated NG, especially sci.physics.research,
>>> is no different in that the moderators are the trolls.
>>>
>>
>> Then it seems you have chosen wisely where you spend your time -- a
>> place you identify as only a haven for trolls.
>>
>> People have the strangest motivations.
>>
>> John Sefton, for example, doesn't really like the scientific method,
>> doesn't believe its outcomes or its viability. Which is why he frequents
>> the discussions on a science newsgroup. Go figure.
>
> Who cares.  You have nothing interesting to say, yet you keep saying it.  NGs are filled with inane
> pretenders like yourself.

Maybe so. You're one of them.

> The scientific method is taught to high school students.  Yet it, the scientific
> method, is the closest thing to a point you've ever had. You are a pedantic fool.

Well, there you go. Given up on artistry in put-down, I see, and just 
going for clumsy five-worders.

I'll reiterate the POINT, which you may have missed, is that you 
continue to post to a newsgroup that YOU have described as "just a haven 
for trolls". And you do so without any hesitation or self-examination. 
It's as though you waste your own time on purpose and by your own admission.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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