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Groups > sci.physics > #897059 > unrolled thread

97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"

Started byJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
First post2026-10-02 15:13 +0000
Last post2026-10-06 08:17 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 155 — 15 participants

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  97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 15:13 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-02 23:34 +0800
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 16:57 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-03 10:33 +0000
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 15:36 +0200
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 16:07 +0000
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-03 18:23 +0200
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-04 11:37 -0700
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-05 18:04 +1100
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 19:03 +0200
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 17:16 +0000
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:17 +0800
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:24 +1100
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:29 +0800
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:30 +0800
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:39 +1100
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2026-10-03 16:15 -0500
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:28 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:10 -0700
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 11:38 +0000
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 01:51 +0800
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:02 +0000
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:10 +0800
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:27 +0000
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-04 11:18 -0700
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:29 +0800
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 18:43 +0000
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 10:07 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-06 04:41 +0800
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 13:13 -0700
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-05 06:39 +0000
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 10:19 -0700
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 06:08 +0000
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 23:42 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 07:17 +0000
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:36 -0700
                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 14:07 +0000
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 08:13 -0700
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:22 -0700
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-06 10:52 -0700
                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 07:33 -0700
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:10 -0700
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-06 17:42 +0000
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-06 19:46 -0700
                                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-07 07:31 +0000
                                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 07:55 -0700
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-07 08:51 -0700
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 09:12 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-07 16:49 +0000
                                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-07 19:31 +0200
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 10:09 -0700
                                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 11:44 -0700
                                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 12:19 -0700
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-07 16:10 +0000
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 09:46 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-07 17:37 +0000
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 10:11 -0700
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 01:51 +0800
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 21:53 -0700
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-06 23:17 -0700
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 08:22 -0700
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-07 10:15 -0700
                                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 12:02 -0700
                                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-07 13:34 -0700
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 14:25 -0700
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 01:59 +0800
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 12:11 -0700
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 04:03 +0800
                                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 14:30 -0700
                                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 08:05 +0800
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 16:05 -0700
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 08:16 +0800
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-07 18:02 -0700
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-07 21:07 -0700
                                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-08 09:54 -0700
                                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-08 10:25 -0700
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-08 12:49 -0700
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-08 14:16 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-09 05:33 +0800
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-08 23:53 +0200
                                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 08:07 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-08 19:01 -0700
                                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 01:18 -0700
                                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-09 06:47 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-09 07:35 +0000
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-08 23:51 +0200
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-09 05:55 +0800
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-09 07:29 +0000
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-08 18:58 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 01:21 -0700
                                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2026-10-09 06:50 -0700
                                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 07:48 -0700
                                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-09 07:05 +0000
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-09 01:31 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-09 09:29 +0000
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 08:16 -0700
                                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-09 08:15 -0700
                                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-09 15:39 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 01:46 +1000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-02 10:37 -0700
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 16:03 +1000
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-03 00:08 -0700
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:51 +1100
        GNSS (was: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS") Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-10-07 19:48 +0200
          Re: GNSS Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-07 11:35 -0700
            Re: GNSS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-10-07 23:34 +0200
              Re: GNSS Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-07 16:37 -0700
                Re: GNSS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-10-08 06:48 +0200
          Re: GNSS Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2026-10-07 23:02 +0200
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-02 19:31 +0200
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 06:50 +0000
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:15 +1100
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:25 +0800
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:46 -0700
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 19:56 +0800
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 13:22 -0700
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-05 19:33 -0700
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-06 12:05 +0800
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 16:28 +1100
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:16 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-07 21:19 +0800
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-07 21:42 +0800
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 10:15 -0700
                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 01:45 +0800
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 11:47 -0700
                              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-08 03:29 +0800
                                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-07 15:47 -0700
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 16:22 +1100
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 00:07 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 23:26 +1100
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-06 10:38 -0700
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-06 09:28 +0000
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 23:34 +1100
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Someone <864c855e3d64399dc06fa30ebb75526c2c2e73db7216b16a3d4cf03e8a52ec3b@example.com> - 2026-10-02 18:45 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 08:56 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:57 +1100
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-03 10:21 -0700
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:00 +1100
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-03 14:02 -0700
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:25 +1100
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-04 10:13 -0700
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-05 17:24 +1100
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-05 09:07 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 10:16 -0700
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:39 +1100
                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:05 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-05 20:05 +0200
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-05 20:18 +0200
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-05 12:50 -0700
                          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:46 +1100
                            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:07 -0700
                      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-06 17:28 +1100
                        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-06 08:17 -0700

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#897164

FromJeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>
Date2026-10-06 10:22 -0700
Message-ID<2saaclp16ireplolkm0csjfdoma81ssbdm@4ax.com>
In reply to#897157
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
> >>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
> >> >> some use sonar.
> >> >
> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
> >> >their location by sonar?
> >> >
> >> >Good luck with that.
> >> 
> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
> >> 
> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
> >
> >
> >So where do they say whales can determine their location
> >by sonar?
> >
> >"Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
> 
> That is bullshit

Nope.  Absolutely true.  You can't determine location
from compass alone or sonar alone.  Which was your
original claim, and that a reptile brain compass is just
like GPS.  It's not, as has been pointed out to you by a
few people now.


> I can see things on teefee all the time that are not written.

So TV is your source for technical data.  We should have
known!


> Inventions come from being able to see what is not written yet.

Strawmen also come from beint able to see what was not
written!  And, you just invented a strawman!
How bout that?

(snip wailing & gnashing of teeth)

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#897167

Fromjohn larkin <jl@htigct.com>
Date2026-10-06 10:52 -0700
Message-ID<63daclld5afqeqdm6usf6fsglv62slt1gh@4ax.com>
In reply to#897164
On Tue, 06 Oct 2026 10:22:58 -0700, Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:

>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>> >> >> some use sonar.
>> >> >
>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>> >> >their location by sonar?
>> >> >
>> >> >Good luck with that.
>> >> 
>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>> >> 
>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>> >
>> >
>> >So where do they say whales can determine their location
>> >by sonar?
>> >
>> >"Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>> 
>> That is bullshit
>
>Nope.  Absolutely true.  You can't determine location
>from compass alone or sonar alone.  Which was your
>original claim, and that a reptile brain compass is just
>like GPS.  It's not, as has been pointed out to you by a
>few people now.
>

Some drones navigate with optical or radar topological mapping. Whales
could do that too, with sonar.

They could combine that with other clues, like temperature and
salinity and taste and mag fields. Salmon are pretty good at finding
the pool where they were born.


>
>> I can see things on teefee all the time that are not written.
>
>So TV is your source for technical data.  We should have
>known!
>
>
>> Inventions come from being able to see what is not written yet.
>
>Strawmen also come from beint able to see what was not
>written!  And, you just invented a strawman!
>How bout that?
>
>(snip wailing & gnashing of teeth)

Be nice.

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#897158

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-06 07:33 -0700
Message-ID<7edfpm-hcdp.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897150
In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>> >> some use sonar.
>> >
>> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>> >their location by sonar?
>> >
>> >Good luck with that.
>> 
>>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>> 
>> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
> 
> 
> So where do they say whales can determine their location
> by sonar?
> 
> "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."

It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
compass.

Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
you.

A compass just provides a bearing relative to the Earth's magnetic
field.

To determine a location you also geographic data, i.e. a map of some
sort.

-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

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#897163

FromJeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>
Date2026-10-06 10:10 -0700
Message-ID<0oaaclta5bdmrbnj6f2tdr9il0em7kmlc0@4ax.com>
In reply to#897158
Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
> >> >> some use sonar.
> >> >
> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
> >> >their location by sonar?
> >> >
> >> >Good luck with that.
> >> 
> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
> >> 
> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
> > 
> > 
> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
> > by sonar?
> > 
> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
> 
> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
> compass.
> 
> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
> you.
> 
> A compass just provides a bearing relative to the Earth's magnetic
> field.
> 
> To determine a location you also geographic data, i.e. a map of some
> sort.


Succinct and well said.

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#897166

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-10-06 17:42 +0000
Message-ID<11a3btd$25n1n$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#897163
>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>> >> >> some use sonar.
>> >> >
>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>> >> >their location by sonar?
>> >> >
>> >> >Good luck with that.
>> >> 
>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>> >> 
>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>> > 
>> > 
>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>> > by sonar?
>> > 
>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>> 
>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>> compass.

You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things



 
>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>> you.


Even in the simplest case, say in a sea or lake
looking left distance 1 
looking right distance 2
looking forward distance 3
Looking backward distance 4
Looking down for how far from sea floor,
looking up for depth

 --------
|        |
|  U     |
|        |
|        |
 --------

Now by 'looking around' you know exactly where you are relative to the coastlines.
 https://techdiy.info/cursor-en/how-far-can-sonar-detect/
300 miles range
600 miles between coastlines / islands / seafloor terrain.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=can+sonar+from+a+depth+measure+the+sea+surface+distance
Search Assist
 Sonar can measure the distance from a depth sensor to the sea surface by
 pointing an upward-looking transducer upward and timing the echo return.

Normally I would reply with: For 10 US dollies I will say you are right,
for 15 I will say it twice, give you a discount.

But REALLY get a clue

 

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#897170

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-06 19:46 -0700
Message-ID<vdogpm-cg0t.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897166
In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>> >> 
>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>> >> 
>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>> > by sonar?
>>> > 
>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>> 
>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>> compass.
> 
> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
> 

Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.

> 
>  
>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>> you.
> 
> 
> Even in the simplest case, say in a sea or lake
> looking left distance 1 
> looking right distance 2
> looking forward distance 3
> Looking backward distance 4
> Looking down for how far from sea floor,
> looking up for depth
> 
>  --------
> |        |
> |  U     |
> |        |
> |        |
>  --------
> 
> Now by 'looking around' you know exactly where you are relative to the coastlines.

And tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth.

>  https://techdiy.info/cursor-en/how-far-can-sonar-detect/
> 300 miles range
> 600 miles between coastlines / islands / seafloor terrain.
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=can+sonar+from+a+depth+measure+the+sea+surface+distance
> Search Assist
>  Sonar can measure the distance from a depth sensor to the sea surface by
>  pointing an upward-looking transducer upward and timing the echo return.
 

And tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth.

> Normally I would reply with: For 10 US dollies I will say you are right,
> for 15 I will say it twice, give you a discount.
> 
> But REALLY get a clue
> 
>  

-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

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#897174

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-10-07 07:31 +0000
Message-ID<11a4sfq$2l61d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#897170
>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>> > by sonar?
>>>> > 
>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>> 
>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>> compass.
>> 
>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>> 
>
>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>
>> 
>>  
>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>> you.

Pilot?
Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
Get the angle between those,
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
to determine you position relative to it.

And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
All in 3D and all in motion.
They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.

Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
so they 'naturally', know where to go
Small; fish, whales, what not.

There is a lot more to it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897177

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-07 07:55 -0700
Message-ID<g43ipm-jttu.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897174
In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>> compass.
>>> 
>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>> 
>>
>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>
>>> 
>>>  
>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>> you.
> 
> Pilot?
> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
> Get the angle between those,
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation

Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.

> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
> to determine you position relative to it.

Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".

> 
> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
> All in 3D and all in motion.
> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.

Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
in New York or Mexico City.

> 
> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),

Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
noise at every location on the planet.

> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
> so they 'naturally', know where to go
> Small; fish, whales, what not.

Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
Beach. 

> 
> There is a lot more to it.
> 


-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897179

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-10-07 08:51 -0700
Message-ID<ifqcclp36qk9gkfg7eeu8d5lguleuuksgt@4ax.com>
In reply to#897177
On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>> compass.
>>>> 
>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>> 
>>>
>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>> you.
>> 
>> Pilot?
>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>> Get the angle between those,
>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>
>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>
>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>> to determine you position relative to it.
>
>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>
>> 
>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>
>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>in New York or Mexico City.

Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
tiny destinations. Somehow.

>
>> 
>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>
>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>noise at every location on the planet.
>
>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>
>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>Beach. 


But arrive exactly where they want.


>
>> 
>> There is a lot more to it.
>> 

John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897181

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-07 09:12 -0700
Message-ID<nj7ipm-jtbv.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897179
In sci.physics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> 
>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>> you.
>>> 
>>> Pilot?
>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>
>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>
>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>
>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>
>>> 
>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>
>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>in New York or Mexico City.
> 
> Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
> tiny destinations. Somehow.

Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
general areas, not specific locations.


> 
>>
>>> 
>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>
>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>
>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>
>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>Beach. 
> 
> 
> But arrive exactly where they want.

Which is a general area, not a specific location.

> 
> 
>>
>>> 
>>> There is a lot more to it.
>>> 
> 
> John Larkin
> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
> Lunatic Fringe Electronics

Do you really not understand the difference between arriving somewhere
off the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?

-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897182

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-10-07 16:49 +0000
Message-ID<11a5t7f$329fl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#897181
>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>In sci.physics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
>> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>> 
>>>> Pilot?
>>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>>
>>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>>
>>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>>
>>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>>
>>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>>in New York or Mexico City.
>> 
>> Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>> tiny destinations. Somehow.
>
>Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>general areas, not specific locations.
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>>
>>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>>
>>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>>
>>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>>Beach. 
>> 
>> 
>> But arrive exactly where they want.
>
>Which is a general area, not a specific location.
>
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> There is a lot more to it.
>>>> 
>> 
>> John Larkin
>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>
>Do you really not understand the difference between arriving somewhere
>off the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?

You are shifting the issue.
FYI birds even find back and use their own nest from the previous stay.

Fish seem to find locations too for putting their eggs,
same place they were born.

Once near the coast they will go there.

Sometiese one gets confused,
there recently was some whale in Germany that got up a river,
people tried to bring it back to the ocean to save it,
they managed to do that, but it died a bit later,


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897188

FromGerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
Date2026-10-07 19:31 +0200
Message-ID<11a5vko$1337j$1@solani.org>
In reply to#897182
Am 07.10.26 um 18:49 schrieb Jan Panteltje:
ff the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?
> 
> You are shifting the issue.
> FYI birds even find back and use their own nest from the previous stay.

Just think at carrier pigeons.

Gerhard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897184

Fromjohn larkin <jl@htigct.com>
Date2026-10-07 10:09 -0700
Message-ID<hquccltvujpbabh83jf85fj8e7ki544bun@4ax.com>
In reply to#897181
On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 09:12:09 -0700, Jim Pennino
<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

>In sci.physics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
>> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>> 
>>>> Pilot?
>>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>>
>>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>>
>>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>>
>>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>>
>>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>>in New York or Mexico City.
>> 
>> Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>> tiny destinations. Somehow.
>
>Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>general areas, not specific locations.
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>>
>>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>>
>>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>>
>>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>>Beach. 
>> 
>> 
>> But arrive exactly where they want.
>
>Which is a general area, not a specific location.
>
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> There is a lot more to it.
>>>> 
>> 
>> John Larkin
>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>
>Do you really not understand the difference between arriving somewhere
>off the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?

Do you think insults are rational discussion?

Salmon hatch and float down a stream out to sea. Years later, from
thousands of miles away, they find the very place that they were born
in, within meters, to lay eggs for the next generation.

What electronics are you designing lately?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897196

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-07 11:44 -0700
Message-ID<pggipm-7cqv.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897184
In sci.physics john larkin <jl@htigct.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 09:12:09 -0700, Jim Pennino
> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> 
>>In sci.physics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
>>> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pilot?
>>>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>>>
>>>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>>>
>>>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>>>
>>>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>>>
>>>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>>>in New York or Mexico City.
>>> 
>>> Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>>> tiny destinations. Somehow.
>>
>>Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>>general areas, not specific locations.
>>
>>
>>> 
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>>>
>>>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>>>
>>>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>>>
>>>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>>>Beach. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But arrive exactly where they want.
>>
>>Which is a general area, not a specific location.
>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a lot more to it.
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> John Larkin
>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>
>>Do you really not understand the difference between arriving somewhere
>>off the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?
> 
> Do you think insults are rational discussion?

What insult would that be, the fact that you can't seem to understand
the difference between arriving somewhere in general and somewhere in
particular?

> 
> Salmon hatch and float down a stream out to sea. Years later, from
> thousands of miles away, they find the very place that they were born
> in, within meters, to lay eggs for the next generation.

Nope.

Salmon return with uncanny precision to spawn in the exact same
freshwater location, often within meters or even yards of the specific
gravel nest (called a redd) where they hatched.

NOAA

Note that they return to a particular type of gravel area.

During their long-distance migration across hundreds or thousands of miles
of open ocean, they use the Earth's magnetic field as a compass to guide
themselves back to the correct general coastal area and river mouth.

USGS

Salmon use an acute sense of smell (olfaction) to recognize the unique
chemical signature and scent of their natal stream, which they imprinted
on as juveniles before heading to the ocean.

USGS


> 
> What electronics are you designing lately?

What does electronics have to do with spawning salmon?


-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897201

Fromjohn larkin <jl@htigct.com>
Date2026-10-07 12:19 -0700
Message-ID<ak6dclpgrmvdctt6pd151ne84da58basn6@4ax.com>
In reply to#897196
On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 11:44:11 -0700, Jim Pennino
<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

>In sci.physics john larkin <jl@htigct.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 09:12:09 -0700, Jim Pennino
>> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>In sci.physics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
>>>> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pilot?
>>>>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>>>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>>>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>>>>
>>>>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>>>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>>>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>>>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>>>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>>>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>>>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>>>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>>>>in New York or Mexico City.
>>>> 
>>>> Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>>>> tiny destinations. Somehow.
>>>
>>>Bats, birds, and butterflies migrate thousands of miles and arrive at
>>>general areas, not specific locations.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>>>>
>>>>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>>>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>>>>
>>>>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>>>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>>>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>>>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>>>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>>>>
>>>>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>>>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>>>>Beach. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> But arrive exactly where they want.
>>>
>>>Which is a general area, not a specific location.
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is a lot more to it.
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> John Larkin
>>>> Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
>>>> Lunatic Fringe Electronics
>>>
>>>Do you really not understand the difference between arriving somewhere
>>>off the coast of California and arriving at Long Beach Harbor?
>> 
>> Do you think insults are rational discussion?
>
>What insult would that be, the fact that you can't seem to understand
>the difference between arriving somewhere in general and somewhere in
>particular?
>
>> 
>> Salmon hatch and float down a stream out to sea. Years later, from
>> thousands of miles away, they find the very place that they were born
>> in, within meters, to lay eggs for the next generation.
>
>Nope.
>
>Salmon return with uncanny precision to spawn in the exact same
>freshwater location, often within meters or even yards of the specific
>gravel nest (called a redd) where they hatched.
>
>NOAA
>
>Note that they return to a particular type of gravel area.
>
>During their long-distance migration across hundreds or thousands of miles
>of open ocean, they use the Earth's magnetic field as a compass to guide
>themselves back to the correct general coastal area and river mouth.
>
>USGS
>
>Salmon use an acute sense of smell (olfaction) to recognize the unique
>chemical signature and scent of their natal stream, which they imprinted
>on as juveniles before heading to the ocean.
>
>USGS
>
>
>> 
>> What electronics are you designing lately?
>
>What does electronics have to do with spawning salmon?

It wouldn't surprise me if they used e-fields to navigate too.

I've been talking to people recently about using e-fields to
communicate underwater. Sheet resistors, essentially.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897180

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-10-07 16:10 +0000
Message-ID<11a5qtv$31a1b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#897177
>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectively lost.
>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>> compass.
>>>> 
>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>> 
>>>
>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>> you.
>> 
>> Pilot?
>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>> Get the angle between those,
>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>
>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>
>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>> to determine you position relative to it.
>
>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>
>> 
>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>
>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>in New York or Mexico City.
>
>> 
>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>
>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>noise at every location on the planet.
>
>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>
>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>Beach. 



They do not use those names, the map in their brain is so each place has
its own sound, reflection signature to put it simple.

They also communicate with each other and use memory.
Different beaches, rocky coasts, human infested places, different depth,
different temperatures, different speed and direction of currents, 
all places have their own acoustic signature.
Imagine music, acoustics. 
And taste of the water,
probably many more factors, friends they know, relations with other animals 

There is a lot more to it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897183

FromJim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Date2026-10-07 09:46 -0700
Message-ID<ek9ipm-k3hv.ln1@gonzo.specsol.net>
In reply to#897180
In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectively lost.
>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>> you.
>>> 
>>> Pilot?
>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>
>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>
>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>
>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>
>>> 
>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>
>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>in New York or Mexico City.
>>
>>> 
>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>
>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>
>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>
>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>Beach. 
> 
> 
> 
> They do not use those names, the map in their brain is so each place has
> its own sound, reflection signature to put it simple.

Yeah, sure they do.

> They also communicate with each other and use memory.
> Different beaches, rocky coasts, human infested places, different depth,
> different temperatures, different speed and direction of currents, 
> all places have their own acoustic signature.
> Imagine music, acoustics. 
> And taste of the water,
> probably many more factors, friends they know, relations with other animals 
> 
> There is a lot more to it.

I think someone has spent far too much time watching cartoons with talking
animals...


-- 
penninojim@yahoo.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897189

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-10-07 17:37 +0000
Message-ID<11a6019$33e8p$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#897183
>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectively lost.
>>>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>> 
>>>> Pilot?
>>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>>
>>>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>>>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>>>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>>
>>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>>
>>>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>>>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>>
>>>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>>>in New York or Mexico City.
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>>
>>>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>>>noise at every location on the planet.
>>>
>>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>>
>>>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>>>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>>>Beach. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> They do not use those names, the map in their brain is so each place has
>> its own sound, reflection signature to put it simple.
>
>Yeah, sure they do.
>
>> They also communicate with each other and use memory.
>> Different beaches, rocky coasts, human infested places, different depth,
>> different temperatures, different speed and direction of currents, 
>> all places have their own acoustic signature.
>> Imagine music, acoustics. 
>> And taste of the water,
>> probably many more factors, friends they know, relations with other animals 
>> 
>> There is a lot more to it.
>
>I think someone has spent far too much time watching cartoons with talking
>animals...

Humans are basically also animals.
They have figured out a bit more stuff to help them .
Also to destroy them.

'Animals' do the same thing as humans, fighting, making war,
use things as tools.
Eat other animals..

Animals also communicate with each other.
We are still working on understanding their languages,

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897185

Fromjohn larkin <jl@htigct.com>
Date2026-10-07 10:11 -0700
Message-ID<r7vccl1st6vd2egci81v5l1lq8717r04bs@4ax.com>
In reply to#897177
On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
<jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>> > Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>> >> >Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> >> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>> >> >> some use sonar.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>> >> >their location by sonar?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Good luck with that.
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >>  Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>> >>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>> >>  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>> > by sonar?
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>> compass.
>>>> 
>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>> 
>>>
>>>Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>> you.
>> 
>> Pilot?
>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>> Get the angle between those,
>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>
>Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>
>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater 
>> to determine you position relative to it.
>
>Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>
>> 
>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>
>Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>in New York or Mexico City.
>
>> 
>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>
>Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>noise at every location on the planet.
>
>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals 
>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>
>Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>Beach. 
>

They may have difficulty reading the street signs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#897192

FromJohann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>
Date2026-10-08 01:51 +0800
Message-ID<PEvxS.5331$Ob1f.773@fx05.ams4>
In reply to#897185
On 10/8/2026 1:11 AM, john larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:55:46 -0700, Jim Pennino
> <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
> 
>> In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>wrote:
>>>>> In sci.physics Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>> Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> In sci.physics Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are also sea ceatures that travel halfway around the world
>>>>>>>>>>> some use sonar.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now you're going to tell us how whales can determine
>>>>>>>>>> their location by sonar?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Those who not want to see are effectively blind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same for those who do not want to learn, those are effectivly lost.
>>>>>>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar
>>>>>>>>>   https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/echolocation-is-nature-built-in-sonar-here-is-how-it-works
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So where do they say whales can determine their location
>>>>>>>> by sonar?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Those who see what isn't written are effectively blind."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is impossible to determine location with just radar, sonar or a
>>>>>>> compass.
>>>>>
>>>>> You really have no clue and never even used those things or designed those things
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually I am a pilot and use those things on a regular basis.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>>> Radar and sonar just tell you there is something, or nothing, in front of
>>>>>>> you.
>>>
>>> Pilot?
>>> Old situation, lost, no GPS, no clue
>>> listen with directional antenna for 2 known radio stations
>>> Get the angle between those,
>>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_navigation
>>
>> Such has been obsolete for years now and even in the heyday it required
>> a map to work. You draw a bearing line through both stations on a map
>> and where the lines intersect is your postition. No map, no position.
>>
>>> In The Same Way you can listen to ultrasound transmissions underwater
>>> to determine you position relative to it.
>>
>> Which tells you nothing about where you are on the Earth. There are no
>> maps or databases of "ultrasound transmissions underwater".
>>
>>>
>>> And bats (the animals that YouAsh press-incident tramp had Faulty use to kill millions with COVID)
>>> even locate and catch small moving insects using ultrasound for navigation.
>>> All in 3D and all in motion.
>>> They can find their home too, and communicate with each other using that same ultrasound.
>>
>> Sure bats can find bugs with ultrasound but they can't tell if they are
>> in New York or Mexico City.
>>
>>>
>>> Every 'location' has it own ultrasound 'sound' (spectrum),
>>
>> Which varies minute by minute and there is nothing unique about the
>> noise at every location on the planet.
>>
>>> like you can hear with normal ears the sound of waves crashing on a beach.
>>> The brain (located for humans between the 2 ears) have this thing called 'memory'
>>> that creates a map of where you were, communication and DNA also passes it on the the next generation of animals
>>> so they 'naturally', know where to go
>>> Small; fish, whales, what not.
>>
>> Childish nonsense. Marine animals have no clue whether they are off San
>> Pedro, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntigton Beach, Newport Beach of Laguna
>> Beach.
>>
> 
> They may have difficulty reading the street signs.

Birds on the other hand -- I think it were crows -- have no trouble un-
derstanding traffic lights.  They drop a peanut on the ground, and then
wait for red light to pick up the edible core.

And all that without having a driving license, imagine that.


Best wishes, and happy bird watching!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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