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Groups > sci.physics > #598993 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-30 15:42 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-10-05 13:25 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 268 — 33 participants |
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1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 15:42 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-30 19:50 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 20:43 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 21:16 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 21:22 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-30 22:47 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-10-01 13:48 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2016-10-01 15:27 +0100
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 09:53 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2016-10-01 21:53 +0100
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:06 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 13:31 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-10-01 15:03 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-10-02 14:54 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-02 00:18 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 09:31 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 09:57 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 08:11 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:03 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:47 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:10 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 21:15 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:21 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 22:12 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 17:28 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 22:51 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 21:26 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 05:32 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 20:25 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 03:14 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 13:59 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 00:44 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 22:30 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 10:20 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:11 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-06 10:27 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:26 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 22:12 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:16 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 22:28 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-02 02:18 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:47 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:17 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:44 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:50 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 10:29 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:15 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-06 10:47 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 14:40 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 22:24 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:43 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-02 23:17 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:48 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-03 11:57 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 10:37 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:17 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 22:30 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 20:17 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-02 20:48 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 21:10 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 05:14 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-03 14:45 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 00:12 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-04 12:32 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 18:41 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-04 14:59 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 19:44 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-04 16:04 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-04 21:45 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 22:12 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 16:13 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 00:06 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 19:39 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:06 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-04 23:07 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:24 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-05 21:28 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-05 19:55 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 04:29 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 08:01 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:29 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-10-11 12:39 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 04:19 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-06 18:02 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:30 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2016-10-08 00:38 +1100
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 21:51 +0000
Re: Gary R. Schmidt's sig. "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2016-10-28 00:11 +1100
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2016-10-07 00:33 +0200
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 11:28 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-06 12:00 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:46 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:05 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 20:29 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:40 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 20:58 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 19:24 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 04:54 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 22:11 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-06 23:10 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 09:15 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-07 10:12 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 10:15 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 14:29 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-08 01:32 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:33 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 21:55 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 15:43 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 22:55 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 16:23 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 01:47 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 21:25 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 05:34 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:34 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 00:25 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 18:23 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 03:15 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 23:46 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 12:07 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 14:41 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:44 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-09 11:25 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:43 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 14:44 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <throbbingsausage@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:45 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 20:53 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 20:39 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lifer <lifer@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 00:53 +0200
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-10 01:16 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 18:52 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 19:12 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-14 23:27 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 21:37 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 22:09 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 17:52 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 17:31 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:14 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 18:48 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:53 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 12:04 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 10:15 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 14:37 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:14 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 17:30 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 15:45 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 22:22 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 21:25 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 13:43 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:34 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 16:46 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 15:55 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 12:19 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 18:39 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 20:39 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 23:00 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 08:27 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 09:08 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 11:21 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 14:45 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 19:57 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 18:51 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 09:07 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 11:24 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 14:45 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 20:01 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 18:51 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-11 07:42 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-07 22:01 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:33 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-06 20:42 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-06 06:53 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 07:58 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 08:08 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:38 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 15:56 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 00:14 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 19:39 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:25 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 11:00 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:20 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 22:07 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-06 13:45 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 21:13 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 21:22 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 04:59 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 12:17 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-11 06:33 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-11 18:35 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-11 14:30 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-13 08:47 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 10:31 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:37 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 18:49 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 21:53 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 22:40 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 10:49 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-13 23:42 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 20:35 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-14 08:36 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-14 17:59 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 00:26 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 17:35 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 21:12 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-02 22:32 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 05:15 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 21:53 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 11:19 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 18:06 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-11 10:20 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-11 18:48 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-10-09 17:43 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 17:01 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 18:35 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-09 21:50 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 17:23 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-10-08 12:20 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 20:58 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 05:30 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 09:35 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:17 +0300
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:12 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-02 01:17 +0300
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 19:08 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 00:11 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:50 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:26 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:47 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 00:09 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-02 22:06 +0300
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:54 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:40 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 08:29 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:46 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 21:27 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:56 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:07 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 19:24 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 11:38 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 11:53 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 15:20 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 12:00 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-10-02 09:02 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 11:26 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 16:56 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-10-02 19:53 -0400
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 08:30 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-03 13:41 +0000
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Peter Bender" <pbender@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-04 07:00 +0200
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-04 10:25 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 10:34 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:29 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-03 13:41 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 17:37 +0200
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-05 11:20 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-05 14:11 -0500
lift-off noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 20:08 -0700
Re: lift-off Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 08:32 -0500
Re: lift-off edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 11:07 -0700
Re: lift-off rbrteline@gmail.com - 2016-10-03 12:45 -0700
Re: lift-off Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 17:31 -0500
Re: lift-off edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-10-06 13:41 -0700
Re: lift-off Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 21:40 -0500
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 17:36 +0200
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-10-05 10:41 -0700
Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-05 13:25 -0500
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-05 05:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sffecd-esm.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #599491 |
In sci.physics Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote: > In article <k7tdcd-91l.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > wrote: > >> In sci.physics Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote: >> > In article <reddcd-jhj.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com >> > wrote: >> > >> >> In sci.physics Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: >> >> > On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 18:41:18 -0000, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>In sci.physics David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> >>> On 2016-10-04, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com <jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>> In sci.physics David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> >>>>> On 2016-10-03, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com <jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> >> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> It is difficult to conceive of anything making the Earth more >> >> >>>>>> uninhabitable >> >> >>>>>> than Mars. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Parts of the Earth already are, dear. People send scientific and >> >> >>>>> military >> >> >>>>> expeditions there anyway. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Where on the Earth would you have to wear a pressure suit to live >> >> >>>> more >> >> >>>> than a few seconds and have to have your food, air and water shipped >> >> >>>> in >> >> >>>> from millions of miles away? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> "On"? No. "Millions"? no, but fairly difficult and time consuming for >> >> >>> each and >> >> >>> every shipment. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Hint: Arthur Curry was a native. >> >> >> >> >> >>On the surface of the Earth, scifi besotted child. >> >> > >> >> > Arthur Curry is better known as Aquaman. He's talking about under the >> >> > ocean -- which is certainly "parts of the Earth." >> >> >> >> Yes, I know, thus my scifi besotted child comment. >> >> >> >> When rational adult people talk about living somewhere, they are generally >> >> talking about living above ground and above water. >> >> >> >> Assuming someone for some arcane reason wanted to live under water on >> >> Earth, doing so is technically and logistically trivial. >> > >> > Since it's so technically and logistically trivial, I'm sure that means >> > you'll be moving into your new underwater condo sometime in the next few >> > days? >> >> What in your wildest fantasies makes you think I, or anyone else, would >> want to live under water? >> >> If I were to live anywhere in the least bit unusual, it would be in >> a wilderness area with my own runway. >> >> > If not, I submit that you haven't got a clue as to the realities >> > involved, and are talking out your ass. >> > >> > (Free hint, Jimmy: If it was so trivial, there'd be quite a few >> > extremely crowded places that would be jumping at the chance to ease >> > their population pressure by offloading some of it to underwater >> > habitats. So where are they?) >> >> Utter horse shit. >> >> In extremely crowded places they build tall buildings, as is done >> in Hong Kong. >> >> There is a difference in techically trivial and expensive. > > ROTFL! > > Jimmy, first rule of digging yourself into a hole: When you find that's > what you're doing, the best thing you can do is STOP DIGGING! You've > just gone from mind-bogglingly clueless to utterly laughable! With this > post, you actually caused me to LOL at how total your absence of > knowledge on the topic you're arguing about is! Thanks! I needed a good > knee-slapper! Still nothing but arm waving and ad hominem. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | edprochak@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 11:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c1548fc8-320a-462d-9f30-71caf7581f28@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #599176 |
On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 9:18:07 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in > news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: > > > Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb: > > > >> They need a coal plant to provide coal and coke for the steel mills. > >> > >> They need mining equipment to mine the iron ore, and water. How do > >> you get a 30 ton truck up on Mars ? order it from Amazon, free > >> shipping ? > >> > >> > >> They need to generate O2, a lot of it. Where are they going to get > >> that ? > > > > If you have enough power (and indeed, this is a big if) you can split > > CO2 into CO and O2 using solid state electrolysis. > > > > http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120001775.pdf > > > > You can also do this via a multi-stage reaction if you have > > hydrogen (CO2 + H2 <-> CO + H2O). Hydrogen you can get from water > > from electrolysis. Once you've got carbon monoxide and hydrogen > > (syngas), you can start your carbon chemistry chain. > > > > It's doable, but it's hellishly complex. Here, we manage by having > > lots and lots of different chemical companies, making the building > > blocks for each other until a product finally reaches the end > > consumer. > > > > Want an example? Well, on Mars you should be able to build a > > spacesuit with a Polycarbonate bubble. How do you do that? > > > > Well, you start with syngas and make hydrocarbons (you'll need that to > > get the oxygen out). You put those hydrocarbons through a steam > > cracker and/or catalytic reformer to make benzene and propylene. > > Steam crackers are about the biggest and most complex chemical plants > > of them all. Catalytic reformers use platinum or rhenium catalysts, so > > you'd better stock up on these. Well, at least the transport costs > > according to Musk will be low compared to what they cost on Earth, so > > that's OK. > > > > So, we've got benzene and propylene. You make this into cumene using > > phosphoric acid as catalyst (good thing you built up that phosphoric > > acid plant...). Cuemene you oxydize into cumene hydroperoxide in > > an acidic medium (have that NaCl elextrolysis running, right?) to > > give you phenol and acetone. > > > > Throw away half the acetone and make the rest into Bisphenol A, > > using, what... an ion exchange catalyst. Good thing we have that > > plant making acidic ion exchange resins up and running, right? > > For this, we only need styrene, sulfuric acid, a crosslinker and.... > > > > In the next plant, you make up Cl2 and phosgene from it and use this > > and BPA plus NaOH to make your polycarbonate in another interesting > > process using yet another... you just knew it... catalyst. > > Good thing we started manufacturing that before ever starting > > up our Polycarbonate plant. > > > > So now, you've got your first pellet of Polycarbonat to put into... > > what plastics processing machine? > > > > Of course, a spacesuit helmet that yellows and cracks on exposure > > to UV light might not be good on Mars. Did you remember to put > > in those UV absorbers, which are a whole different branch of > > chemistry? Ugh, I'm glad we didn't forget those either. > > > > And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate. > > > > Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile > > rubber next... > > Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think > about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is > deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers, > as well as a myriad other chips. > > The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is > vast. > > Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony > could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech > level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been > done)?. > > They need to maintain atmosphere. > They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water. > They need enough energy to do the above. > > To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony. > To improve, they need to be able to find new resources. > To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy. > > What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals? > > pt Finally a relevant question. I'll reply with a question about tech level: First does there need to be a high tech industry on Mars? Certainly not for the first few stages of development. The colonists will certainly not need brand new cell phones every two years. Just a few IC machines may be enough to maintain the high tech they need. making the pure silicon may be harder, but energy is the key. The energy question is the big one. I have not seen the solution there yet. Maybe a big nuclear plant on the outskirts of the colony? Maintaining a breathable atmosphere is what you mean. Airlocks are not that hard to make and maintain. Once closed, there is sunlight available. Some of the foodstuffs might come from recycling (think mushrooms, no light needed). I do not think it would take long to get through the first stage. (Assume some kind of mining equipment sent there in the first years.) I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. Solar cell: doable, but dust prone Solar Concentrator: doable, but also dust prone Nuclear: hard to transport the initial fuel (safety), may need different reactor design if water resources are limited. Others? ed
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 17:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nsuljp$dol$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #599252 |
On 10/3/2016 1:00 PM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 9:18:07 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote: >> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in >> news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: >> >>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb: >>> And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate. >>> >>> Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile >>> rubber next... >> Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think >> about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is >> deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers, >> as well as a myriad other chips. >> >> The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is >> vast. >> >> Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony >> could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech >> level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been >> done)?. >> >> They need to maintain atmosphere. >> They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water. >> They need enough energy to do the above. >> >> To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony. >> To improve, they need to be able to find new resources. >> To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy. >> >> What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals? >> >> pt > > Finally a relevant question. I'll reply with a question > about tech level: > First does there need to be a high tech industry on Mars? > Certainly not for the first few stages of development. > The colonists will certainly not need brand new cell phones every two years. > Just a few IC machines may be enough to maintain the high tech > they need. making the pure silicon may be harder, but energy is the key. > > > The energy question is the big one. I have not seen the solution there yet. > Maybe a big nuclear plant on the outskirts of the colony? > > Maintaining a breathable atmosphere is what you mean. Airlocks are > not that hard to make and maintain. yes they are. > Once closed, there is sunlight available. > Some of the foodstuffs might come from recycling (think mushrooms, no light needed). I do not think it would take long to get through the first stage. > (Assume some kind of mining equipment sent there in the first years.) > > I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. > > Solar cell: doable, but dust prone > Solar Concentrator: doable, but also dust prone > Nuclear: hard to transport the initial fuel (safety), may need different reactor design if water resources are limited. > Others? > > ed > it is more basic than that, where do you get water and O2 from in vast quantities ? again, there are no real reasons to go to Mars.
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-03 22:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nsv6cu$11gs$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #599324 |
On 10/3/2016 5:20 PM, Serigo wrote: > On 10/3/2016 1:00 PM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 9:18:07 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote: >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in >>> news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: >>> >>>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb: > > >>>> And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate. >>>> >>>> Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile >>>> rubber next... > >>> Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think >>> about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is >>> deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers, >>> as well as a myriad other chips. >>> >>> The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is >>> vast. >>> >>> Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony >>> could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech >>> level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been >>> done)?. >>> >>> They need to maintain atmosphere. >>> They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water. >>> They need enough energy to do the above. >>> >>> To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony. >>> To improve, they need to be able to find new resources. >>> To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy. >>> >>> What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals? >>> >>> pt >> >> Finally a relevant question. I'll reply with a question >> about tech level: > >> First does there need to be a high tech industry on Mars? >> Certainly not for the first few stages of development. >> The colonists will certainly not need brand new cell phones every two >> years. >> Just a few IC machines may be enough to maintain the high tech >> they need. making the pure silicon may be harder, but energy is the key. >> >> >> The energy question is the big one. I have not seen the solution there >> yet. >> Maybe a big nuclear plant on the outskirts of the colony? >> >> Maintaining a breathable atmosphere is what you mean. Airlocks are >> not that hard to make and maintain. > > yes they are. > > >> Once closed, there is sunlight available. >> Some of the foodstuffs might come from recycling (think mushrooms, no >> light needed). I do not think it would take long to get through the >> first stage. >> (Assume some kind of mining equipment sent there in the first years.) what kind of mining equipment runs on O.14 psi CO2 ? and no O2 ? it will have to be electric, with a HUGE stroage battery for pushing dirt. it will take days to charge it...... got solutions ??? >> > >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >> >> Solar cell: doable, but dust prone >> Solar Concentrator: doable, but also dust prone >> Nuclear: hard to transport the initial fuel (safety), may need >> different reactor design if water resources are limited. >> Others? >> >> ed >> > > it is more basic than that, where do you get water and O2 from in vast > quantities ? > > again, there are no real reasons to go to Mars.
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| From | edprochak@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-06 13:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a9b866e3-05f3-424a-9f09-2a894f5b1578@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #599346 |
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:07:13 PM UTC-4, Serigo wrote: > On 10/3/2016 5:20 PM, Serigo wrote: > > On 10/3/2016 1:00 PM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 9:18:07 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote: > >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in > >>> news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: > >>> > >>>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb: > > > > > >>>> And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate. > >>>> > >>>> Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile > >>>> rubber next... > > > >>> Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think > >>> about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is > >>> deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers, > >>> as well as a myriad other chips. > >>> > >>> The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is > >>> vast. > >>> > >>> Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony > >>> could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech > >>> level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been > >>> done)?. > >>> > >>> They need to maintain atmosphere. > >>> They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water. > >>> They need enough energy to do the above. > >>> > >>> To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony. > >>> To improve, they need to be able to find new resources. > >>> To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy. > >>> > >>> What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals? > >>> > >>> pt > >> > >> Finally a relevant question. I'll reply with a question > >> about tech level: > > > >> First does there need to be a high tech industry on Mars? > >> Certainly not for the first few stages of development. > >> The colonists will certainly not need brand new cell phones every two > >> years. > >> Just a few IC machines may be enough to maintain the high tech > >> they need. making the pure silicon may be harder, but energy is the key. > >> > >> > >> The energy question is the big one. I have not seen the solution there > >> yet. > >> Maybe a big nuclear plant on the outskirts of the colony? > >> > >> Maintaining a breathable atmosphere is what you mean. Airlocks are > >> not that hard to make and maintain. > > > > yes they are. > > > > > >> Once closed, there is sunlight available. > >> Some of the foodstuffs might come from recycling (think mushrooms, no > >> light needed). I do not think it would take long to get through the > >> first stage. > >> (Assume some kind of mining equipment sent there in the first years.) > > what kind of mining equipment runs on O.14 psi CO2 ? and no O2 ? > > it will have to be electric, with a HUGE stroage battery for pushing > dirt. it will take days to charge it...... > > got solutions ??? I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV > >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. How many times do you have to ask the same question?
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-06 21:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <8dricd-5f8.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #599755 |
edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:07:13 PM UTC-4, Serigo wrote: >> On 10/3/2016 5:20 PM, Serigo wrote: >> > On 10/3/2016 1:00 PM, edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 9:18:07 PM UTC-4, Cryptoengineer wrote: >> >>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in >> >>> news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: >> >>> >> >>>> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb: >> > >> > >> >>>> And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate. >> >>>> >> >>>> Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile >> >>>> rubber next... >> > >> >>> Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think >> >>> about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is >> >>> deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers, >> >>> as well as a myriad other chips. >> >>> >> >>> The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is >> >>> vast. >> >>> >> >>> Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony >> >>> could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech >> >>> level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been >> >>> done)?. >> >>> >> >>> They need to maintain atmosphere. >> >>> They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water. >> >>> They need enough energy to do the above. >> >>> >> >>> To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony. >> >>> To improve, they need to be able to find new resources. >> >>> To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy. >> >>> >> >>> What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals? >> >>> >> >>> pt >> >> >> >> Finally a relevant question. I'll reply with a question >> >> about tech level: >> > >> >> First does there need to be a high tech industry on Mars? >> >> Certainly not for the first few stages of development. >> >> The colonists will certainly not need brand new cell phones every two >> >> years. >> >> Just a few IC machines may be enough to maintain the high tech >> >> they need. making the pure silicon may be harder, but energy is the key. >> >> >> >> >> >> The energy question is the big one. I have not seen the solution there >> >> yet. >> >> Maybe a big nuclear plant on the outskirts of the colony? >> >> >> >> Maintaining a breathable atmosphere is what you mean. Airlocks are >> >> not that hard to make and maintain. >> > >> > yes they are. >> > >> > >> >> Once closed, there is sunlight available. >> >> Some of the foodstuffs might come from recycling (think mushrooms, no >> >> light needed). I do not think it would take long to get through the >> >> first stage. >> >> (Assume some kind of mining equipment sent there in the first years.) >> >> what kind of mining equipment runs on O.14 psi CO2 ? and no O2 ? >> >> it will have to be electric, with a HUGE stroage battery for pushing >> dirt. it will take days to charge it...... >> >> got solutions ??? > > I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. > > How many times do you have to ask the same question? Likely until you provide a rational answer. The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several nuclear reactors. It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-06 21:22 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nt70sp$1tt7$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #599760 |
On 10/6/2016 4:13 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >>> > >>> got solutions ??? >> >> I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >>>>> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >> >> How many times do you have to ask the same question? > > Likely until you provide a rational answer. > > The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth > when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. > > The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn > dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several > nuclear reactors. > > It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to > cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. > Had not thought of that! cooling the reactor !, *HUGE problem* Nuclear reactors are 33% effecient the nuclear power plant Vogtle in Georgia will use 74 MILLION gallons of water a DAY !! http://savannahnow.com/news-latest-news/2014-12-12/nuclear-expansion-gets-ok-drink-deep-savannah-river SO, *we have bounded the Mars colony*, no water no air for humans, nor for COOLing the reactor. Best you could do is 1/5 a megawatt via radiators to space, no capacity in the air either,
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-07 04:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kmmjcd-gab.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #599797 |
Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: > On 10/6/2016 4:13 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >> >>>> got solutions ??? >>> >>> I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >>>>>> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >>> >>> How many times do you have to ask the same question? >> >> Likely until you provide a rational answer. >> >> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth >> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. >> >> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn >> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several >> nuclear reactors. >> >> It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to >> cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. >> > > Had not thought of that! > cooling the reactor !, > > *HUGE problem* > > Nuclear reactors are 33% effecient > > the nuclear power plant Vogtle in Georgia will use 74 MILLION gallons of > water a DAY !! > > http://savannahnow.com/news-latest-news/2014-12-12/nuclear-expansion-gets-ok-drink-deep-savannah-river > > > SO, *we have bounded the Mars colony*, no water no air for humans, nor > for COOLing the reactor. Best you could do is 1/5 a megawatt via > radiators to space, > > no capacity in the air either, This is partially offset by the fact that Mars is cold and it could use a closed loop cooling system instead of full loss. Some of the heat could be used to supply the required heating to cope with the -100F nights. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-07 12:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nt8lau$t78$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #599806 |
On 10/6/2016 11:59 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: >> On 10/6/2016 4:13 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >> Had not thought of that! >> cooling the reactor !, >> >> *HUGE problem* >> Nuclear reactors are 33% effecient >> >> the nuclear power plant Vogtle in Georgia will use 74 MILLION gallons of >> water a DAY !! >> >> http://savannahnow.com/news-latest-news/2014-12-12/nuclear-expansion-gets-ok-drink-deep-savannah-river >> >> SO, *we have bounded the Mars colony*, no water no air for humans, nor >> for COOLing the reactor. Best you could do is 1/5 a megawatt via >> radiators to space, >> no capacity in the air either, > > This is partially offset by the fact that Mars is cold and it could > use a closed loop cooling system instead of full loss. > > Some of the heat could be used to supply the required heating to cope > with the -100F nights. > > sounds like an interesting design - partial mass transfer thermal type of problem, [so much mass of air at -100F required], and a thermal radiation problem actually if only 1% of earths atmosphere, the night sky is cold, so radiative transfer may work well there. That is probably why the temp goes to -100F at night anyway. night sky temp on earth is about -25 degree C ? from surface, mostly water vapor.... Mars could have night sky temp -100 C ? or colder, it has some CO2 in the way
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| From | edprochak@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 06:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7778f934-4266-4ec3-a07e-0064847619b3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #599760 |
On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > edprochak@gmail.com wrote: [] > > I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV > >> >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. > > > > How many times do you have to ask the same question? > > Likely until you provide a rational answer. > > The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth > when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options should be checked. > > The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn > dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several > nuclear reactors. I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big source. > > It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to > cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. SO, alternative designs that do not need water might be an option. I knew there had been some research on this, but I thought it was related to fusion reactors. But here is a design that could be very useful: "Molten salt reactors are nuclear reactors which use a molten fluoride salt mixture as the primary coolant. These salts have proven to be far superior heat sinks than the helium used in light-water reactors, which greatly reduces the need for supplementary cooling. The nuclear fuel (uranium tetrafluoride) can also be dissolved directly into the coolant as well. When the fluid is inserted into a graphite core, the mix goes critical and drives a turbine to generate electricity. Unlike conventional light-water reactors, an MSR operates at very high temperatures to achieve thermodynamic efficiency but remain at atmospheric pressure to reduce mechanical stress on the system." from: http://gizmodo.com/5990383/the-future-of-nuclear-power-runs-on-the-waste-of-our-nuclear-past Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get the benefit of the research for plants here on earth. IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat" can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such. Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas). The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us. You are using a computer that have taken a lot longer to develop if the lunar program hadn't needed lower weight electronics. Now that wasn't the only factor that drove the development of the transistor in the US, but it did help drive the development of integrated circuits. So I cannot say the power issue is solved, but there is one possible solution. (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) Have a nice day.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 18:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <91ovcd-5ll.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #600393 |
edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > [] >> > I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> >> >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >> > >> > How many times do you have to ask the same question? >> >> Likely until you provide a rational answer. >> >> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth >> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. > > So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but > how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options > should be checked. How much can be converted you ask? The same as anywhere else, about 30% of whatever is available, but since the atmosphere is so thin, there is little available. >> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn >> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several >> nuclear reactors. > > I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big > source. If you are so sure, name it. >> It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to >> cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. > > SO, alternative designs that do not need water might be an option. > I knew there had been some research on this, but I thought it was related > to fusion reactors. But here is a design that could be very useful: > > "Molten salt reactors are nuclear reactors which use a molten fluoride > salt mixture as the primary coolant. These salts have proven to be far > superior heat sinks than the helium used in light-water reactors, which > greatly reduces the need for supplementary cooling. The nuclear fuel > (uranium tetrafluoride) can also be dissolved directly into the coolant > as well. When the fluid is inserted into a graphite core, the mix goes > critical and drives a turbine to generate electricity. Unlike conventional > light-water reactors, an MSR operates at very high temperatures to achieve > thermodynamic efficiency but remain at atmospheric pressure to reduce > mechanical stress on the system." > from: > http://gizmodo.com/5990383/the-future-of-nuclear-power-runs-on-the-waste-of-our-nuclear-past > > Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get > the benefit of the research for plants here on earth. Fine. This just means you have to transport everything from Earth. > IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion > with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat" > can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such. The typical efficiency of thermal electric generators is around 5-8%. Piping heat anywhere, whether for heating or just dumpling it requires a transport medium such as water. > Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water > works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would > really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used > by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home > based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas). So where is this water recyling plant going to come from other than Earth? One more huge, heavy, expensive thing that needs to be transported. No one is going to be watering a lawn on Mars. They do not wash anything on the space station; they send dirty stuff back to Earth and send up clean stuff on a regular basis. > The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us. Sure the problems can be solved by sending huge amounts of stuff to Mars on a regular basis. What benefit does that have to the taxpayers funding all this? > You are using a computer that have taken a lot longer to develop > if the lunar program hadn't needed lower weight electronics. > Now that wasn't the only factor that drove the development of > the transistor in the US, but it did help drive the development > of integrated circuits. Which are now fully developed and the Apollo program had little to do with it. > So I cannot say the power issue is solved, but there is one > possible solution. Like what exactly? Collect everyone's shit, dry it on the near vacuum surface and burn it in a steam boiler? Oops, no oxygen to burn anything and no water for the boiler. > (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) > > Have a nice day. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-11 14:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ntjeko$1jcf$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #600431 |
On 10/11/2016 1:35 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> [] >>>> I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >>>>>>> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >>>> >>>> How many times do you have to ask the same question? >>> Likely until you provide a rational answer. >>> >>> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth >>> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. >> >> So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but >> how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options >> should be checked. > > How much can be converted you ask? > > The same as anywhere else, about 30% of whatever is available, but > since the atmosphere is so thin, there is little available. 1% of earth atmosphere, only 1% of the mass airflow > >>> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn >>> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several >>> nuclear reactors. >> >> I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big >> source. > > If you are so sure, name it. > >>> It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to >>> cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. water could only be used in a closed loop system to distribute excess heat out to heat radiators to space >> >> SO, alternative designs that do not need water might be an option. >> I knew there had been some research on this, but I thought it was related >> to fusion reactors. But here is a design that could be very useful: >> "Molten salt reactors are nuclear reactors which use a molten fluoride >> salt mixture as the primary coolant. These salts have proven to be far >> superior heat sinks than the helium used in light-water reactors, which >> greatly reduces the need for supplementary cooling. The nuclear fuel >> (uranium tetrafluoride) can also be dissolved directly into the coolant >> as well. When the fluid is inserted into a graphite core, the mix goes >> critical and drives a turbine to generate electricity. Unlike conventional >> light-water reactors, an MSR operates at very high temperatures to achieve >> thermodynamic efficiency but remain at atmospheric pressure to reduce >> mechanical stress on the system." >> from: >> http://gizmodo.com/5990383/the-future-of-nuclear-power-runs-on-the-waste-of-our-nuclear-past >> >> Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get >> the benefit of the research for plants here on earth. that is the inner core cooling, bigger problem is dumping all that heat to atmosphere or radiate it out to space, as there are no bodies of water to dump the heat in > > Fine. This just means you have to transport everything from Earth. > >> IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion >> with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat" >> can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such. > The typical efficiency of thermal electric generators is around 5-8%. > > Piping heat anywhere, whether for heating or just dumpling it requires > a transport medium such as water. > >> Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water >> works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would >> really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used >> by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home >> based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas). > > So where is this water recyling plant going to come from other > than Earth? > One more huge, heavy, expensive thing that needs to be transported. > > No one is going to be watering a lawn on Mars. > > They do not wash anything on the space station; they send dirty stuff > back to Earth and send up clean stuff on a regular basis. > >> The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us. > Sure the problems can be solved by sending huge amounts of stuff to > Mars on a regular basis. What benefit does that have to the taxpayers > funding all this? > >> You are using a computer that have taken a lot longer to develop >> if the lunar program hadn't needed lower weight electronics. >> Now that wasn't the only factor that drove the development of >> the transistor in the US, but it did help drive the development >> of integrated circuits. > Which are now fully developed and the Apollo program had little to > do with it. > >> So I cannot say the power issue is solved, but there is one >> possible solution. > Like what exactly? Collect everyone's shit, dry it on the near > vacuum surface and burn it in a steam boiler? Oops, no oxygen > to burn anything and no water for the boiler. > >> (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) >> >> Have a nice day. > more you look at humans on mars, the more you realize it is stupid, Ask Obama if he is going to mars.
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| From | edprochak@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 08:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1542f992-49e4-4df6-ac03-641f66144d85@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #600431 |
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:46:06 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > > [] > >> > I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV > >> >> >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. > >> > > >> > How many times do you have to ask the same question? > >> > >> Likely until you provide a rational answer. > >> > >> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth > >> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. > > > > So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but > > how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options > > should be checked. > > How much can be converted you ask? > > The same as anywhere else, about 30% of whatever is available, but > since the atmosphere is so thin, there is little available. okay, you argue against solar on mars because of "lots of dust storms." but then argue against wind power because "the atmosphere is so thin". Actually I am arguing that they might be able to harness both forms of power. just as we need to do here. > > >> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn > >> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several > >> nuclear reactors. > > > > I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big > > source. > > If you are so sure, name it. Wind, solar. Boy you have very short term memory. > > >> It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to > >> cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. > > > > SO, alternative designs that do not need water might be an option. > > I knew there had been some research on this, but I thought it was related > > to fusion reactors. But here is a design that could be very useful: > > > > "Molten salt reactors are nuclear reactors which use a molten fluoride > > salt mixture as the primary coolant. These salts have proven to be far > > superior heat sinks than the helium used in light-water reactors, which > > greatly reduces the need for supplementary cooling. The nuclear fuel > > (uranium tetrafluoride) can also be dissolved directly into the coolant > > as well. When the fluid is inserted into a graphite core, the mix goes > > critical and drives a turbine to generate electricity. Unlike conventional > > light-water reactors, an MSR operates at very high temperatures to achieve > > thermodynamic efficiency but remain at atmospheric pressure to reduce > > mechanical stress on the system." > > from: > > http://gizmodo.com/5990383/the-future-of-nuclear-power-runs-on-the-waste-of-our-nuclear-past > > > > Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get > > the benefit of the research for plants here on earth. > > Fine. This just means you have to transport everything from Earth. So did you read the Musk plan at all? > > > IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion > > with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat" > > can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such. > > The typical efficiency of thermal electric generators is around 5-8%. Yes, so? You are connecting them to a nuclear plant. LOTS of heat available. > > Piping heat anywhere, whether for heating or just dumpling it requires > a transport medium such as water. What is it with the water fascination with you? You never had a house with forced hot air for heating? > > > Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water > > works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would > > really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used > > by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home > > based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas). > > So where is this water recyling plant going to come from other > than Earth? > > One more huge, heavy, expensive thing that needs to be transported. maybe the first few. Later they will make their own. Again, did you not read the plan? > > No one is going to be watering a lawn on Mars. > > They do not wash anything on the space station; they send dirty stuff > back to Earth and send up clean stuff on a regular basis. Space station does not have the room. Mars will have room for washing machines. Maybe not even water based. (ever had your suit dry cleaned?) > > > The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us. > > Sure the problems can be solved by sending huge amounts of stuff to > Mars on a regular basis. What benefit does that have to the taxpayers > funding all this? > The colonists devise new ways of making things work with the resources available on Mars. We then can do some of the same things here. We will benefit. > > You are using a computer that have taken a lot longer to develop > > if the lunar program hadn't needed lower weight electronics. > > Now that wasn't the only factor that drove the development of > > the transistor in the US, but it did help drive the development > > of integrated circuits. > > Which are now fully developed and the Apollo program had little to > do with it. You missed my point. but I'll let this go. > > > So I cannot say the power issue is solved, but there is one > > possible solution. > > Like what exactly? Collect everyone's shit, dry it on the near > vacuum surface and burn it in a steam boiler? Oops, no oxygen > to burn anything and no water for the boiler. Again the SHORT TERM memory is failing you. Molten Salt Reactors. I even mentioned it again on the line below. just above you sig: > > > (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) > > > > Have a nice day. > > -- > Jim Pennino (like talking to a two year old.)
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| From | noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 10:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ffc4e71f-ca7a-4262-b307-8df34ad141b9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #600716 |
I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH > okay, you argue against solar on mars because of > "lots of dust storms." but then argue against wind power > because "the atmosphere is so thin". > > Actually I am arguing that they might be able to harness > both forms of power. just as we need to do here. > So did you read the Musk plan at all? > maybe the first few. Later they will make their own. > Again, did you not read the plan? > Space station does not have the room. Mars will have room > for washing machines. Maybe not even water based. (ever had > your suit dry cleaned?) > The colonists devise new ways of making things work with the resources > available on Mars. We then can do some of the same things here. > We will benefit. > > Which are now fully developed and the Apollo program had little to > > do with it. > > You missed my point. but I'll let this go. > Again the SHORT TERM memory is failing you. Molten Salt Reactors. > I even mentioned it again on the line below. just above you sig: > > > > > (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) > > > > > > Have a nice day. > > > > -- > > Jim Pennino > > (like talking to a two year old.)
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 20:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ntpcsc$1172$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #600729 |
On 10/13/2016 12:31 PM, noTthaTguY wrote: > I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH > if you water on Mars, does it make mud, or dry really fast ?
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 18:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <580039B2.B9D@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #600803 |
Serigo wrote: > > On 10/13/2016 12:31 PM, noTthaTguY wrote: > > I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH > > > > if you water on Mars, does it make mud, or dry really fast ? It cannot make mud because there is no earth on mars. You need organice material to make earth/dirt.
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| From | Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 21:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ntphbv$169b$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #600806 |
On 10/13/2016 8:49 PM, The Starmaker wrote: > Serigo wrote: >> >> On 10/13/2016 12:31 PM, noTthaTguY wrote: >>> I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH >>> >> >> if you water on Mars, does it make mud, or dry really fast ? > > > It cannot make mud because there is no earth on mars. You need organice > material to make earth/dirt. > Mars stuff + water = gook (not mud) ? not gook either, they dont really mix, a good test, starmaker This Martian soil that we've analyzed on Mars just this past week appears mineralogically similar to some weathered basaltic materials that we see on Earth," David Bish, a CheMin co-investigator with Indiana University, told reporters. He cited as an example the "weathered soils on the flanks of Mauna Kea in Hawaii." "Much of Mars is covered with dust, and we had an incomplete understanding of its mineralogy," Bish said in a statement. "We now know it is mineralogically similar to basaltic material, with significant amounts of feldspar, pyroxene and olivine, which was not unexpected. Roughly half the soil is non-crystalline material, such as volcanic glass or products from weathering of the glass."
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 22:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <58006FB8.5394@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #600811 |
Serigo wrote:
>
> On 10/13/2016 8:49 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Serigo wrote:
> >>
> >> On 10/13/2016 12:31 PM, noTthaTguY wrote:
> >>> I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH
> >>>
> >>
> >> if you water on Mars, does it make mud, or dry really fast ?
> >
> >
> > It cannot make mud because there is no earth on mars. You need organice
> > material to make earth/dirt.
> >
>
> Mars stuff + water = gook (not mud) ?
> not gook either, they dont really mix,
>
> a good test, starmaker
>
> This Martian soil that we've analyzed on Mars just this past week
> appears mineralogically similar to some weathered basaltic materials
> that we see on Earth," David Bish, a CheMin co-investigator with Indiana
> University, told reporters. He cited as an example the "weathered soils
> on the flanks of Mauna Kea in Hawaii."
>
> "Much of Mars is covered with dust, and we had an incomplete
> understanding of its mineralogy," Bish said in a statement. "We now know
> it is mineralogically similar to basaltic material, with significant
> amounts of feldspar, pyroxene and olivine, which was not unexpected.
> Roughly half the soil is non-crystalline material, such as volcanic
> glass or products from weathering of the glass."
It is not "soil":
https://www.google.com/#q=define+soil
soil1
soil/
noun
noun: soil; plural noun: soils
the upper layer of earth in which plants grow, a black or dark brown material typically consisting of a mixture of organic remains, clay, and rock particles.
Don't let NASA fool you...they are crooks, all of them.
Everyday.
There is no soil on Mars. There is no earth on Mars. There is no - 'organic' remains - on Mars.
No - 'organic' remains - , no Life, Period.
There is no organic content anywhere else in the universe. Why should there be?
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-14 10:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <58011A9C.2E11@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #600818 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > Serigo wrote: > > > > On 10/13/2016 8:49 PM, The Starmaker wrote: > > > Serigo wrote: > > >> > > >> On 10/13/2016 12:31 PM, noTthaTguY wrote: > > >>> I can water the lawn ... if it's HOH > > >>> > > >> > > >> if you water on Mars, does it make mud, or dry really fast ? > > > > > > > > > It cannot make mud because there is no earth on mars. You need organice > > > material to make earth/dirt. > > > > > > > Mars stuff + water = gook (not mud) ? > > not gook either, they dont really mix, > > > > a good test, starmaker > > > > This Martian soil that we've analyzed on Mars just this past week > > appears mineralogically similar to some weathered basaltic materials > > that we see on Earth," David Bish, a CheMin co-investigator with Indiana > > University, told reporters. He cited as an example the "weathered soils > > on the flanks of Mauna Kea in Hawaii." > > > > "Much of Mars is covered with dust, and we had an incomplete > > understanding of its mineralogy," Bish said in a statement. "We now know > > it is mineralogically similar to basaltic material, with significant > > amounts of feldspar, pyroxene and olivine, which was not unexpected. > > Roughly half the soil is non-crystalline material, such as volcanic > > glass or products from weathering of the glass." > > It is not "soil": > > https://www.google.com/#q=define+soil > > soil1 > soil/ > noun > noun: soil; plural noun: soils > > the upper layer of earth in which plants grow, a black or dark brown material typically consisting of a mixture of organic remains, clay, and rock particles. > > Don't let NASA fool you...they are crooks, all of them. > > Everyday. > > There is no soil on Mars. There is no earth on Mars. There is no - 'organic' remains - on Mars. > > No - 'organic' remains - , no Life, Period. > > There is no organic content anywhere else in the universe. Why should there be? The problem here is, NASA doesn't know the language the aliens from Mars speak... NASA doesn't know the words for the ...stuff on Mars. You can not use English words to describe Martian words. They speak a different language. They don't have words like water, trees, boat and planes... There is no Martian soil, so you cannot say Martian soil. NASA needs to make up...new words. They could try reading science fiction books about Mars to see if they can pick up new words... I'm sure there are a lot of science fiction books about Mars out there... probably you can find a whole entire Martian language out there in those SF books. Anybody speak Martian?
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-10-13 23:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2pi5dd-cab.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #600716 |
edprochak@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:46:06 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> > On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 5:16:04 PM UTC-4, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >> edprochak@gmail.com wrote: >> > [] >> >> > I SAID : VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV >> >> >> >> I'll have to look more into the plans for energy production. >> >> > >> >> > How many times do you have to ask the same question? >> >> >> >> Likely until you provide a rational answer. >> >> >> >> The solar irradiance on Mars on average is about half that of Earth >> >> when there are no dust storms, and there are lots of dust storms. >> > >> > So there may be possibility for wind power. Thin atmosphere, but >> > how much power could be converted? something to consider. all options >> > should be checked. >> >> How much can be converted you ask? >> >> The same as anywhere else, about 30% of whatever is available, but >> since the atmosphere is so thin, there is little available. > > okay, you argue against solar on mars because of > "lots of dust storms." but then argue against wind power > because "the atmosphere is so thin". No, I am not arguing against anything, I am stating facts. You do know that Mars if farther away from the Sun than the Earth and that the atmosphere is very thin, don't you? From NASA's numbers on the solar irradiance on Mars you can get a daily average of about 40 W/m^2 of electrical energy on Mars. That is daily average for a clear day, with a bit more at local noon and a bit less mornings and afternoons. That less dense moving air has less energy than more dense air is basic physics. > Actually I am arguing that they might be able to harness > both forms of power. just as we need to do here. There is no might about it, you could but you will not get a lot of energy from either, nowhere near enough to support industry. >> >> The only way to provide the enormous amount of power needed to turn >> >> dirt and rocks into anything useful can only be supplied by several >> >> nuclear reactors. >> > >> > I'm sure that is not the only way, but I agree Nuclear would be a big >> > source. >> >> If you are so sure, name it. > > Wind, solar. Boy you have very short term memory. There is very little available energy in wind and solar on Mars. Boy you have very short term memory. To get the energy of a little 50 MW reactor you would need over a million square meters of solar array and it would only produce energy during the day. >> >> It is to be determined if sufficient water is available on Mars to >> >> cool a single nuclear reactor, much less the many that would be needed. >> > >> > SO, alternative designs that do not need water might be an option. >> > I knew there had been some research on this, but I thought it was related >> > to fusion reactors. But here is a design that could be very useful: >> > >> > "Molten salt reactors are nuclear reactors which use a molten fluoride >> > salt mixture as the primary coolant. These salts have proven to be far >> > superior heat sinks than the helium used in light-water reactors, which >> > greatly reduces the need for supplementary cooling. The nuclear fuel >> > (uranium tetrafluoride) can also be dissolved directly into the coolant >> > as well. When the fluid is inserted into a graphite core, the mix goes >> > critical and drives a turbine to generate electricity. Unlike conventional >> > light-water reactors, an MSR operates at very high temperatures to achieve >> > thermodynamic efficiency but remain at atmospheric pressure to reduce >> > mechanical stress on the system." >> > from: >> > http://gizmodo.com/5990383/the-future-of-nuclear-power-runs-on-the-waste-of-our-nuclear-past >> > >> > Maybe they can develop the technology for the Mars colony, then we get >> > the benefit of the research for plants here on earth. >> >> Fine. This just means you have to transport everything from Earth. > > So did you read the Musk plan at all? What does a press release have to do with facts? >> > IF it turns out there is not enough water, maybe direct conversion >> > with thermal electric generators can be done. And then the "waste heat" >> > can also be piped around the colony for room heating and such. >> >> The typical efficiency of thermal electric generators is around 5-8%. > > Yes, so? You are connecting them to a nuclear plant. LOTS of heat > available. There is also the issue of cooling a nuclear plant so it does not melt down. >> Piping heat anywhere, whether for heating or just dumpling it requires >> a transport medium such as water. > > What is it with the water fascination with you? > You never had a house with forced hot air for heating? When you design your forced air cooled nuclear reactor, the world will be at your feet. >> >> > Regarding the water, the space station shows that recycling water >> > works. So It would be interesting to calculate how much water would >> > really be needed per person. Clearly a lot less that what is used >> > by we Americans per person. I know of a company working on home >> > based recycling of water (for homes in drought affected areas). >> >> So where is this water recyling plant going to come from other >> than Earth? >> >> One more huge, heavy, expensive thing that needs to be transported. > > maybe the first few. Later they will make their own. > Again, did you not read the plan? The plan says nothing about the duplication of a significant portion of the industrial resources of Earth that would be required to do that. >> >> No one is going to be watering a lawn on Mars. >> >> They do not wash anything on the space station; they send dirty stuff >> back to Earth and send up clean stuff on a regular basis. > > Space station does not have the room. Mars will have room > for washing machines. Maybe not even water based. (ever had > your suit dry cleaned?) The major problem with the space station and washing thinss is not room. So where is that river of dry cleaning fluid on Mars? You do know that dry cleaning does use fluids, just not water, don't you? >> > The problems can be solved. and the benefits will come back to us. >> >> Sure the problems can be solved by sending huge amounts of stuff to >> Mars on a regular basis. What benefit does that have to the taxpayers >> funding all this? >> > The colonists devise new ways of making things work with the resources > available on Mars. We then can do some of the same things here. > We will benefit. Sure we will. If it were all that simple, the Australian Outback would be wall to wall people instead of an empty, desolate area. >> > You are using a computer that have taken a lot longer to develop >> > if the lunar program hadn't needed lower weight electronics. >> > Now that wasn't the only factor that drove the development of >> > the transistor in the US, but it did help drive the development >> > of integrated circuits. >> >> Which are now fully developed and the Apollo program had little to >> do with it. > > You missed my point. but I'll let this go. I ignored the point of something new, wonderful, and unknown coming out of sending people to Mars as childish wishing. >> > So I cannot say the power issue is solved, but there is one >> > possible solution. >> >> Like what exactly? Collect everyone's shit, dry it on the near >> vacuum surface and burn it in a steam boiler? Oops, no oxygen >> to burn anything and no water for the boiler. > > Again the SHORT TERM memory is failing you. Molten Salt Reactors. > I even mentioned it again on the line below. just above you sig: Which would still have to be cooled somehow if they existed. >> > (Interesting too. I may just have to read more about MSR.) >> > >> > Have a nice day. >> >> -- >> Jim Pennino > > (like talking to a two year old.) Like talking to a little girl wishing for her fairy princess to appear. -- Jim Pennino
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