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Time: Eternalisim and Presentism

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  Time: Eternalisim and Presentism alal65536@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 15:59 -0700
    Re: Time: Eternalisim and Presentism Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 07:52 +0200
      Re: Time: Eternalisim and Presentism Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 09:30 +0200
    Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-03 19:35 -0700
      Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-06-05 07:14 -0500
        Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. Silver Slimer <sl@im.er> - 2017-06-05 12:02 -0400
        Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-05 11:20 -0700
          Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-06-05 13:23 -0500
            Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-05 14:16 -0700
              Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-06-05 19:05 -0400
                Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-06-06 07:00 -0500
                  Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-06-06 20:26 -0400
            Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-05 23:21 +0000
              Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-06-06 06:57 -0500
    Re: Time: Eternalisim and Presentism Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-04 06:34 +0200
    Re: Time: Eternalisim and Presentism Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2017-06-05 14:42 -0700

#635139 — Time: Eternalisim and Presentism

According to Eternalisim, all moments in time already exist.  According to Presentism, only the present exists.  Some physicists believe in Eternalism, and it is supported by special relativity.  Some neuroscientists believe in Presentism.

I believe in Presentism, because I believe in free will, and that the universe is non deterministic.  What do you believe in?

Abhinav Lal 
Writer & Investor 

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#635168

Dne 03/06/2017 v 00:59 alal65536@gmail.com napsal(a):
> According to Eternalisim, all moments in time already exist.  According to Presentism, only the present exists.  Some physicists believe in Eternalism, and it is supported by special relativity.  Some neuroscientists believe in Presentism.
> 
> I believe in Presentism, because I believe in free will, and that the universe is non deterministic.  What do you believe in?

This is a false interpretation of Special relativity,
as time moments in other frames do not exist in this frame.

Each frame has its own time moments,
its own past, present and future.

What is time-like causal sequence in one frame,
remains such a causal sequence in other frames too.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#635169

Dne 03/06/2017 v 07:52 Poutnik napsal(a):
> [..]
> What is time-like causal sequence in one frame [...]

Time-like causal sequence
is an time oriented sequence of events,
separated by time intervals

     delta_t_n,

and space distances

     dist_n <=  c . delta_t_n.

So each event can ( but not necessarily does )
cause or influence the following event.

So if I throw a stone from a tower ( event 1 )
and the stone hits the ground ( event 2 ),
then in every other reference frame
the event 1  precedes the event 2.

The time interval between them
is always equal or longer than
their distance divided by c.

    It does not exclude the possibility
    the event 2 can be noticed in other frames
    before event 1. But observing an event
    is different event to the observed event.

For all frames where the Special Relativity applies
the Lorentz transform between :

If the event 1 happens in present,
event 2 will happen in future.

If the event 2 happens in present,
event 1 happened in past.

That means, there is no frame,
where Event 1 happens in present
and Event 2 already happened.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#635265 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
> 
> Abhinav Lal wrote:
> > According to Eternalisim, all moments in time exist.
> > According to Presentism, only the present exists.
> >
> > I believe in Presentism, because I believe in free will,
> > and that the universe is non deterministic.
> > What do you believe in?
> 
> Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.
> 
> Still:
> 
>   The ( four dimensional ) timescape is static, immutable;
>   the future is just as fixed as the past;
>   (semi)randomness is (semi)ignorance, nothing more.
> 
>   Humanity is just another way to consume exergy, like the stars.
> 
>   And there are many paths to follow; Science _Fiction is very profitable.
>   We get mad when our paths cross, like road rage,
>   but there's nothing anyone can do about it, nature programmed us.


Where, over here or over there?

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#635372 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

The Starmaker wrote:

>Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:

*plonk*

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#635397 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

On 2017-06-05 8:14 AM, chrisv wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> 
>> Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
> 
> *plonk*

I guess I'm not the only one who finds the guy annoying.


-- 
Silver Slimer
OpenMedia & EFF Member
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Death to Islam

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#635411 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

chrisv wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> >Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
> 
> *plonk*


that's the sound one makes when they stick their head in the sand.

A new member of the International Ostrich Society.

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#635412 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

The Starmaker wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>> 
>> The Starmaker wrote:
>> 
>> >Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
>> 
>> *plonk*
>
>that's the sound one makes when they stick their head in the sand.
>
>A new member of the International Ostrich Society.

*plonk*

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#635434 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

chrisv wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> > chrisv wrote:
> >>
> >> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
> >>
> >> *plonk*
> >
> >that's the sound one makes when they stick their head in the sand.
> >
> >A new member of the International Ostrich Society.
> 
> *plonk*

A VIP member of the International Ostrich Society.
Here are a few of it's new members:
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2bJD54CcAALjGL.jpg


When you stick your head in the sand.. you know what is left exposed?...your face.




https://www.google.com/search?q=ostrich+head+in+sand&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUrpWYz6fUAhWGrlQKHb39DDYQsAQIIQ&biw=1280&bih=871#q=ostrich+head+in+sand&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CdJ-i7yGuhZDIjgaXE3GP5AvbEJYRBzTkq2xqQ_1r_1ZNinAwkiLS2LY0zefJh0WGtqEBiTyAI9jASeRe3WaCmVJD1pioSCRpcTcY_1kC9sEXi9z_1xRo93gKhIJQlhEHNOSrbER3AosDCj4QbMqEgmpD-v9k2KcDBHxXygyydV30ioSCSSItLYtjTN5EdkvHnYqBzl3KhIJ8mHRYa2oQGIRGM88V4r-0YAqEglPIAj2MBJ5FxFyKKuoSpL0cSoSCbdZoKZUkPWmEW8x-KgfMNcR

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#635447 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

Wrinkled Star wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> When you stick your head in the sand.. you know what is left
> exposed?...your face.

That would explain your permanent verticle smile, then.

-- 
Today is National Existential Ennui Awareness Day.

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#635531 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Wrinkled Star wrote:
>>
>> When you stick your head in the sand.. you know what is left
>> exposed?...your face.

Just say no to drugs.

> That would explain your permanent verticle smile, then.

I think that I can do just fine, without seeing Relf's dreck.

-- 
"What's wrong with it?"  -  "DFS", regarding the use of a #pragma to
disable 17 different types of compiler warnings

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#635618 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Wrinkled Star wrote:
>>>
>>> When you stick your head in the sand.. you know what is left
>>> exposed?...your face.
>
> Just say no to drugs.
>
>> That would explain your permanent verticle smile, then.
>
> I think that I can do just fine, without seeing Relf's dreck.

Or "StarMaker".

Imagine that, a doofus appropriate the very interesting Olaf Stapledon
novel, "StarMaker", for online trolling.  A vast universal intelligence,
subverted for prompting the question "You angry bro?"

-- 
Don't read any sky-writing for the next two weeks.

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#635449 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> writes:

>The Starmaker wrote:

>> chrisv wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>> 
>>> >Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
>>> 
>>> *plonk*

You didn't plonk the Starfaker fool long ago?

>>that's the sound one makes when they stick their head in the sand.
>>
>>A new member of the International Ostrich Society.

>*plonk*

What happened to the first plonk?

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#635530 — Re: Only "the present" ( a sea of "here and now" events ) exists.

Michael Moroney wrote:

>chrisv writes:
>
>>The Starmaker wrote:
>
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> >Jeff-Relf.Me, @. wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> *plonk*
>
>You didn't plonk the Starfaker fool long ago?

Possibly.  I usually put expiration dates (generally a few months out)
on plonks, unless the person is a persistent and worthless twit, e.g.
Relf.

>>>that's the sound one makes when they stick their head in the sand.
>>>
>>>A new member of the International Ostrich Society.
>
>>*plonk*
>
>What happened to the first plonk?

I'm having some filter problems, it seems.  Odd.  His messages are
still getting though!

-- 
"Have you tried Bing? I quite like it."  -  "True Linux advocate"
Hadron Quark

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#635269

Dne 03/06/2017 v 00:59 alal65536@gmail.com napsal(a):
> According to Eternalisim, all moments in time already exist.  According to Presentism, only the present exists.  Some physicists believe in Eternalism, and it is supported by special relativity.  Some neuroscientists believe in Presentism.
> 
> I believe in Presentism, because I believe in free will, and that the universe is non deterministic.  What do you believe in?
> 

IMHO, the post belongs rather to a philosophy or
religion. Science is not primarily about believe.

Science is about modelling reality behaviour
and confronting the model predictive output with observations.

Note that modern quantum physics is based on Special relativity
and is still non deterministic. What it would not,
if future already existed.


-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#635437

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 4:00:00 PM UTC-7, alal...@gmail.com wrote:
> According to Eternalisim, all moments in time already exist.  According to Presentism, only the present exists.  Some physicists believe in Eternalism, and it is supported by special relativity.  Some neuroscientists believe in Presentism.
> 
> I believe in Presentism, because I believe in free will, and that the universe is non deterministic.  What do you believe in?
> 
> Abhinav Lal 
> Writer & Investor



Determinism is dead!

Double-A

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