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Type systems for non-deterministic concurrency [Amir Pnueli] (Re: Creating a "European CMOS 2.0 Army")

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  Type systems for non-deterministic concurrency [Amir Pnueli] (Re: Creating a "European CMOS 2.0 Army") Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 12:23 +0200
    Robin Milners fickle gives non-determinism in practice [Parallel π-WAM] (Re: Type systems for non-deterministic concurrency [Amir Pnueli]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 12:35 +0200

#896330 — Type systems for non-deterministic concurrency [Amir Pnueli] (Re: Creating a "European CMOS 2.0 Army")

Hi,

Probably blinded by some academic remoteness
from the real world, some people really believe
nonsense like the following:

Deterministic Concurrency - Edward Lee
deterministic models as a central part of the engineering toolkit
https://icfp26.sigplan.org/track/icfp-2026-icfp-keynotes#event-overview

But hey Aristoteles present us already with
modal logic to talk about the future. So
if I have a process calculus, with expressions

π, that capture all my processes of interest,
I can have a modal logic of with modal operators
[π] and <π> that give necessity and possibility,

the simplest first order bootstrapped types are:

Product Type:
A -> [π]B

Sum Type:
A /\ <π>B

So we need more than only a ->π type? But even
with two types, is there an easy equivalent of
Curry Howard isomorphism?

In contrast Amir Pnueli's 1977 system of temporal
logic, another variant of modal logic sharing many
common features with dynamic logic, differs from all
of the above-mentioned logics by being what Pnueli
has characterized as an "endogenous" logic,
the others being "exogenous" logics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_logic_%28modal_logic%29

The Sea Battle and the Master Argument
Aristotle and Diodorus Cronus on the Metaphysics of the Future
https://www.degruyterbrill.com/de/document/doi/10.1515/9783110866346/html



Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> For marketing purposes people
> typically look at the race towards
> 2nm, and we find:
> 
> A month ago, Apple lost its exclusivity
> on 3 nm smartphone processors with
> MediaTek’s Dimensity 9400 chip, integrated
> in the Vivo X200 Pro smartphone. Qualcomm
> is also in the race with its recently
> unveiled Snapdragon 8 Elite and set to
> power the Xiaomi 15 Pro in 2025. However,
> Apple should regain its position as innovation
> leader in 2026 with the release of the
> iPhone 18, which should feature the A20
> chip built on TSMC’s 2 nm process."
> 
> But there is a vertical vias revolution
> going on as well, some SOCs typically
> being at 18 layers now:
> 
> Zooming Into a CPU (It's Incredible)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bez-2cvYja0
> 
> imec has coined the term CMOS 2.0:
> 
> LEUVEN (Belgium), MARCH 12th, 2026 — Imec,
> a world-leading research and innovation hub
> in advanced semiconductor technologies, has
> launched a first-of-its-kind consortium with
> 26 European university groups that will jointly
> work on the technology roadmap beyond
> CMOS scaling (CMOS 2.0).
> https://www.imec-int.com/en/press/imec-launches-university-consortium-around-next-generation-chips 
> 
> 
> So we might see more mobile grade GPUs.
> 
> Bye

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#896331 — Robin Milners fickle gives non-determinism in practice [Parallel π-WAM] (Re: Type systems for non-deterministic concurrency [Amir Pnueli])

Hi,

Hi take Robin Milners fickle:

?- emulate((between(1,2,Y),in(X),out(Y))).
: 0
1
: 0
2
fail.

If I use NUM=3, number of logical threads,
and common input [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0].

I might get this common output:

[1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2]

Or this common output:

[1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2]

Or this common output:

[1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2]

What else? Did I miss some case?

Can be seen on GPU and CPU backend, depending
on launch parameters. (*)

Bye

(*) If logical threads are executed together in
work groups, certain guarantees of determinism
might hold. But modern GPUs usually support

multiple independent work groups, also my CPU
backend does support a notion of multiple
independent work groups. So that the determinism

guarantees only hold inside the work group.

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Probably blinded by some academic remoteness
> from the real world, some people really believe
> nonsense like the following:
> 
> Deterministic Concurrency - Edward Lee
> deterministic models as a central part of the engineering toolkit
> https://icfp26.sigplan.org/track/icfp-2026-icfp-keynotes#event-overview
> 
> But hey Aristoteles present us already with
> modal logic to talk about the future. So
> if I have a process calculus, with expressions
> 
> π, that capture all my processes of interest,
> I can have a modal logic of with modal operators
> [π] and <π> that give necessity and possibility,
> 
> the simplest first order bootstrapped types are:
> 
> Product Type:
> A -> [π]B
> 
> Sum Type:
> A /\ <π>B
> 
> So we need more than only a ->π type? But even
> with two types, is there an easy equivalent of
> Curry Howard isomorphism?
> 
> In contrast Amir Pnueli's 1977 system of temporal
> logic, another variant of modal logic sharing many
> common features with dynamic logic, differs from all
> of the above-mentioned logics by being what Pnueli
> has characterized as an "endogenous" logic,
> the others being "exogenous" logics.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_logic_%28modal_logic%29
> 
> The Sea Battle and the Master Argument
> Aristotle and Diodorus Cronus on the Metaphysics of the Future
> https://www.degruyterbrill.com/de/document/doi/10.1515/9783110866346/html
> 
> 
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> For marketing purposes people
>> typically look at the race towards
>> 2nm, and we find:
>>
>> A month ago, Apple lost its exclusivity
>> on 3 nm smartphone processors with
>> MediaTek’s Dimensity 9400 chip, integrated
>> in the Vivo X200 Pro smartphone. Qualcomm
>> is also in the race with its recently
>> unveiled Snapdragon 8 Elite and set to
>> power the Xiaomi 15 Pro in 2025. However,
>> Apple should regain its position as innovation
>> leader in 2026 with the release of the
>> iPhone 18, which should feature the A20
>> chip built on TSMC’s 2 nm process."
>>
>> But there is a vertical vias revolution
>> going on as well, some SOCs typically
>> being at 18 layers now:
>>
>> Zooming Into a CPU (It's Incredible)
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bez-2cvYja0
>>
>> imec has coined the term CMOS 2.0:
>>
>> LEUVEN (Belgium), MARCH 12th, 2026 — Imec,
>> a world-leading research and innovation hub
>> in advanced semiconductor technologies, has
>> launched a first-of-its-kind consortium with
>> 26 European university groups that will jointly
>> work on the technology roadmap beyond
>> CMOS scaling (CMOS 2.0).
>> https://www.imec-int.com/en/press/imec-launches-university-consortium-around-next-generation-chips 
>>
>>
>> So we might see more mobile grade GPUs.
>>
>> Bye
> 

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