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Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment?

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment?
Date 2016-07-31 17:09 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <nnlsud$14b$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <08941ca9-6cb4-44a4-ab88-f7cf151ce6e1@googlegroups.com> <nndm2r$11lc$3@gioia.aioe.org> <er8qpb5jo38u4a4k9kpp90cug6la40u8kn@4ax.com> <nnljcn$1i1v$1@gioia.aioe.org> <qsospb97ed92tfa76lcuc7asmmh0584f8g@4ax.com>

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On 7/31/2016 4:12 PM, Wally W. wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 14:26:19 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>
>> On 7/30/2016 5:05 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:23:09 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/26/2016 8:05 AM, ken quirici wrote:
>>>>> I would have to surmise that the answer is Yes if the experiment in physical dimensions
>>>>> sufficiently small. Which answer makes me more comfortable with the quantum-theoretic view of reality.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An interference pattern is, by definition, an accumulation of many
>>>> photons. You cannot get an interference pattern from one photon any more
>>>> than you can get a landscape painting from one dollop of green paint.
>>>>
>>>> However, what is true is that an interference pattern will be formed
>>>> even if you fire photons one at a time through a double-slit apparatus,
>>>> such that the fired photon lands before the next one is fired, and so
>>>> you KNOW that no two fired photons are interfering with each other.
>>>
>>> So maybe the "interference pattern" shouldn't be so surprising.
>>>
>>> When many photons are fired at once, they don't all go through the
>>> same slit.
>>>
>>> Why would they when they are fired one at a time?
>>>
>>> Why does the center of the radiation pattern become centered on a slit
>>> in either case?
>>
>> It doesn't. That's the point. See Feynman's The Character of Physical Law.
>
> I refer to the radiation patterns in this image:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ebohr1_IP.svg
>
> There is a radiation pattern centered at the left side of the image.

Well, ok, there is a representation of a traveling wave, yes.

>
> When the waves encounter slits in the middle of the image, two
> radiation patterns emerge: each centered on a slit.

Right, traveling waves emerging from each.

But a traveling wave is a continuous delivery of energy, which is 
observable over a large region of space at once.

Photons are not a continuous delivery of energy, and they are never 
*observed* to be over a large region of space at once. However, a large 
*collection* of photons will emulate continuous delivery of energy and 
emulate a population over a large region of space at once.

>
> The explanation for water waves is simple: the medium exists on both
> sides of the two slits, and the energy re-radiates from where the two
> sides are connected.
>
> If there is no medium for the propagation of light, the reason for the
> emergence of two new centers of radiation must have a different
> explanation for photons in the double-slit experiment.

:-) Did you have something in mind?

>
>> If classical physics were in play, then you would expect to see two
>> maxima, each centered on a line passing through the source and one of
>> the slits.
>
> Based on the radiation pattern in the image cited above, the brighter
> spots might be expected to be at the locations on the target
> perpendicular to the new centers of radiation.

No, this turns out not to be the case. Here, I suggest taking a look at 
Feynman's book as recommended where he specifically calls out the 
difference between what you are thinking of and what is actually observed.

>
>> The maxima may be broadened by scattering, but the location
>> of the maxima would be set by that. That is in fact not what is see,
>> even when you're firing the photons one at a time.
>
> Just pondering out loud: Every photon near the slit doesn't go through
> the slit. Some are stopped on the solid parts of the wall where the
> slits are not. If the photons that *do* go through the slit need to do
> so along a certain portion of their wavelength, then all photons
> through the slit are "in phase" even if fired one at a time.

I think you're going to have a hard time proving that. Especially since 
I can fire the photons in a random Poisson distribution.

>
> What happens to a photon that hits the wall at the point in its
> wavelength when the electric portion of the wave has an amplitude of
> zero? Would it make a mark on the wall?
>
> If all photons through a slit are in-phase and the distance
> relationships are the same whether photons are fired one at a time or
> in great numbers, the "interference pattern" may be the same for
> reasons that are not so spooky.
>
>>> If many photons encountering the slits develop new centers of
>>> radiation, why wouldn't a single photon do the same?
>>
>> If this were the case, you would expect that at low rate, there would be
>> a single-slit diffraction pattern behind each slit, lined up so the
>> central maximum is colinear with slit and source, as described above.
>> This is not what is seen.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Interestingly, this I believe is true regardless of the physical
>>>> dimensions of the apparatus, with the caveat that the angle between any
>>>> maximum in the interference pattern and the adjacent minimum is
>>>> determined by the ratio of the wavelength and the separation distance
>>>> between the slits. (So it's possible to have that ratio such that the
>>>> angle mentioned is more than 90 degrees, in which case you wouldn't see
>>>> the pattern anyway.)
>>>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 06:05 -0700
  Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-26 07:12 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 08:36 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 15:10 -0500
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 09:39 -0700
  Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 11:46 -0400
  Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2016-07-26 10:38 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 12:23 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2016-07-26 17:05 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 19:10 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 07:29 -0500
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 22:15 -0700
              Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 09:28 -0500
                Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-29 10:36 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 09:37 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-26 20:04 +0000
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 22:48 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-27 13:29 +0000
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 09:01 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-27 09:30 -0700
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-27 09:40 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-27 19:13 +0000
            Young's two-pinhole moire' noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 17:25 -0700
        just say, no, thank you noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 12:00 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 22:11 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 00:48 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-29 10:51 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 00:46 -0700
  Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 22:31 +0200
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-26 14:01 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 16:38 -0500
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-07-26 22:57 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-26 23:31 -0700
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-27 04:28 -0700
  Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 14:23 -0500
    sumably, pre- noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 14:01 -0700
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-28 19:35 -0400
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 18:43 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 09:29 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? brandonahenley9@gmail.com - 2016-07-29 12:04 -0700
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 12:29 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-29 17:06 -0400
          Light: a history noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 18:38 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 07:29 -0500
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-29 17:03 -0400
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 16:06 -0500
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-29 20:13 -0400
              Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 12:44 -0500
                Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-30 17:56 -0400
              Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 12:45 -0500
                Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-30 17:58 -0400
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-29 17:10 -0400
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 16:15 -0500
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? B Gates <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-07-29 20:25 -0400
              Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 12:47 -0500
                Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-30 18:00 -0400
                Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:02 -0500
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-30 18:05 -0400
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-07-30 18:41 -0400
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? ken quirici <kquirici@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-31 12:24 -0700
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:33 -0500
            Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 03:32 -0700
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:27 -0500
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 03:29 -0700
            can you read that noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:12 -0700
              Re: can you read that Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-08 08:29 -0400
                Re: can you read that noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 15:22 -0700
                t.h.a.t noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-08-09 12:33 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-07-31 01:00 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 14:26 -0500
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-07-31 17:12 -0400
          Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 17:09 -0500
        Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? poraty350@gmail.com - 2016-08-01 03:35 -0700
      Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-31 18:34 -0700
  Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-07-30 08:07 +0200
    Re: Can a single photon create an interference pattern in a double-slit experiment? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-08-04 12:10 -0700

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