Groups > sci.physics > #581955

Re: BJ Believes

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: BJ Believes
Date	2016-05-31 14:48 -0500
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<nikppn$1mji$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <574da5ba$0$62687$c3e8da3$dbd57e7@news.astraweb.com> <nikbec$vdv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <574dbb70$0$5105$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com> <nikf90$15pv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <574de1c0$0$28963$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com>

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On 5/31/2016 2:10 PM, benj wrote:
> On 05/31/2016 12:48 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 5/31/2016 11:27 AM, benj wrote:
>>> On 05/31/2016 11:43 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>
>>>>> What is YOUR religious beliefs, Odd. HVAC wants to know. He thinks
>>>>> science is religion.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you bringing me into your paintball battle with HVAC?
>>>
>>> I want to you agree with me that science is not religion. That science
>>> is not about belief. I want you to denounce HVAC as a heretic and kook!
>>
>> You're not going to have very much luck manipulating me.
>> Belief is different than faith.
>> Faith is belief without need for observational evidence.
>> Science is belief based on observational evidence.
>> Belief and knowledge are all on a gradient -- there is no good boundary
>> line for a distinction between the two. There is nothing in science that
>> is known with absolute certainty, and so you would be hard pressed to
>> declare that so-and-so is KNOWN and this-or-that is only BELIEVED.
>
> Exactly! Except you seem to think that somehow belief based on evidence
> is science. I think the word is not quite the right one for science.

I disagree. I think scientists BELIEVE the law of conservation of 
momentum is true.

> If
> you BELIEVE in ghosts because of this or that evidence, it still means
> that in your mind ghosts are absolutely true.

Absolutely true? No, not necessarily. One can be led by the evidence to 
say that it is LIKELY ghosts are true, especially if one places a lot of 
stock in the evidence.

Belief and knowledge both are sliding scales of certainty. For some 
propositions, some people hold them with enough certainty that 
counterevidence would make them physically disoriented. Most people are 
REASONABLY certain that the sun will come up tomorrow, though most 
people will also disavow any absolute certainty.

> Sure faith requires no
> evidence, but the basics of assumed reality are the same I say.
>
> In science one says that this or that evidence "suggests" something may
> be true. Or one can say I "suspect" that this or that is true. Or I
> surmise that it might be true, or even I am convinced that it's probably
> true. The key is as you say in science there is no "true". Nobody knows
> exactly what "true" is. So basically it's all this long guessing game.

Yes. But that's true for just about anything we say we believe. There is 
no absolute certainty about ANYTHING, but for all practical purposes 
people may conduct their lives as though this claim or that one is true 
without reservation.

> You look at evidence and take a guess at what might be "true" based on
> that, knowing full well that you are NEVER going to be able to attain
> real "truth" only work toward it.
>
> Hence to demand that someone declare they "believe" in something and
> then call that "science" is nonsense.

I don't think that BELIEVE carries with it a connotation of absolute 
truth. As I said, all "knowledge" and "belief" are on a sliding gradient 
of certainty, with absolutely nothing sitting at the 100.0000% certainty 
point.

>
> Don't you agree?
>

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Thread

BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 06:27 -0700
  BJ Believes john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 06:43 -0700
    BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 06:54 -0700
      Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-29 12:58 -0400
      Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 09:15 -0500
        Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 07:18 -0700
          Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 10:45 -0400
            Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 07:51 -0700
              Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 12:13 -0400
        Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 10:54 -0400
          Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:14 -0700
            Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 12:18 -0400
          Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:19 -0700
            Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 12:20 -0400
              Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:38 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 14:38 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 13:49 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 00:24 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 09:36 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 13:01 -0400
          Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 10:43 -0500
            Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 12:27 -0400
              Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:48 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-31 15:10 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 12:37 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 14:50 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 17:32 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 01:12 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 03:45 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 05:43 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 11:06 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 00:45 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 00:27 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 03:34 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 12:54 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 14:48 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 00:43 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 09:36 -0500
    Re: BJ Believes ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-05-29 14:25 -0500
      Re: BJ Believes "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-05-29 13:50 -0700
  Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-29 12:48 -0400
    Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 11:34 -0700
      Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 20:41 -0400
        Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 18:03 -0700
          Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 22:12 -0400
            Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 10:28 -0500
              Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 12:03 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 11:34 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 18:48 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 18:01 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 20:09 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:17 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 00:45 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 05:02 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 09:47 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:08 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:45 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 06:56 -0500
            Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 15:15 -0700
              Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 19:41 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 21:38 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 03:13 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:21 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 05:50 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 08:00 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 06:51 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 08:53 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:20 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:24 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:54 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 08:41 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 14:21 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 10:48 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:01 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 14:32 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 13:58 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 15:02 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 23:53 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 06:08 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-03 13:50 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 14:26 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:44 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 14:18 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 09:57 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:07 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:23 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:45 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:35 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:55 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 14:19 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 10:41 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-03 13:42 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 09:51 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:00 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-03 10:27 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 10:26 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 13:59 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 13:40 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 21:11 +0000
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 17:38 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-08 22:50 +0000
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 20:34 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-06-08 19:21 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-09 02:43 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-09 02:34 +0000
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-09 02:48 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-06-09 16:34 +0000
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 17:27 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 21:16 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-09 03:38 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 01:56 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 06:38 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 07:23 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 10:49 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 09:13 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 17:07 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 16:16 -0500
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 17:41 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 14:53 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-08 20:28 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-06-08 19:21 -0700
                Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-09 02:41 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 13:30 -0700
        Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 20:10 -0500
          Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-01 22:14 -0400
            Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 10:28 -0500
              Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 12:05 -0400
                Re: BJ Believes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 11:36 -0500
        Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 04:13 -0700
          Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 12:00 -0400
            Re: BJ Believes HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 09:38 -0700
              Re: BJ Believes benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 18:49 -0400
        Re: BenJacoby would have everyone believe in Santa Claus. benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 12:11 -0400
          Re: Jesus Christ and Santa Claus were invented for people like you. benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-06-02 19:07 -0400
            Re: Correlation doesn’t imply causation. ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-03 11:02 -0500

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