Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.

From	niunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Newsgroups	alt.atheism, rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.
Date	2015-08-28 11:58 +0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<mrom69$ae3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(9 earlier) <qhrqta1bh6mjibecv53v63olb83hpi0498@4ax.com> <mrkph0$982$1@dont-email.me> <be9stalqu7pnqvfa62uibksai8g7jfrite@4ax.com> <mrmlpp$6pf$2@dont-email.me> <f2tuta1m1eh9s6fgg5i2u01f2tmm3o6d7p@4ax.com>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 2015-08-28 04:41 AM, Attila < wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:33:46 +0800, niunian <niunian@ymail.com> in
> alt.atheism with message-id <mrmlpp$6pf$2@dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And yet, you don't appear to be able to understand my rather simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophical point of view. To me, that counts as wilful blindness on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your part.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are free to count anything whatever you like.  That has nothing to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do with either accuracy or reality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> empirical science to rely on your physical senses alone in determining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the truth and reality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No brainwashing is necessary.  no other tool are available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Science itself is based on a set of beliefs
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which an be verified at will.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not really. How do you prove the physical world is real? You can't. You
>>>>>>>>>> can only believe that it is real.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can perform repetitious actions and predict the results.  That is
>>>>>>>>> more than your philosophy can do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I interact with the world and it really doesn't care whether I believe
>>>>>>>>> in any particular part of it or not.  I can believe I can flap my
>>>>>>>>> wings and fly but I had better not test that belief from the top of a
>>>>>>>>> tall building.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have not answered my question. You are using the laws of the
>>>>>>>> physical world to prove the physical world is real. You ignore the fact
>>>>>>>> the all physical laws are based on the assumption that the physical
>>>>>>>> world is real.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At some point it is necessary to make certain assumptions.  For
>>>>>>> example, it is possible the entire universe complete with history,
>>>>>>> occupants and the necessary memories were all created 10 seconds ago
>>>>>>> and there is no possible way to prove this did or did not happen.
>>>>>>> Since it would be useless to speculate on whether that is true or not
>>>>>>> it obviously leaves only one course of action - to proceed as if it
>>>>>>> was not so created  Of course, it really doesn't matter does it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise a working hypothesis that the physical world is real is the
>>>>>>> only reasonable course of action.  To do otherwise leaves nowhere to
>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you admit you have no choice but to believe what your physical senses
>>>>>> want you to believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Belief really doesn't enter into it.  I can verify the existence of
>>>>> the physical world at any time.  By repeatable experimentation upon
>>>>> any part of it, and obtaining the expected results.
>>>>
>>>> As I said, you have confidence in what your physical senses tell you.
>>>
>>> It works for me.
>>
>> It's all because you actually believe it.
>
> Apparently you think all of reality is based upon belief.  I am
> curious.  If there is something that no one knows about - an entirely
> new thing such as a plant or animal or cave - does this thing exist or
> not exist?  Remember, if no one knows about it then no one can have
> any kind of a belief about it.

If something does not exist, then you or anyone else would not have 
mentioned it. The fact you are now mentioning it, its existence has 
become uncertain. So there is no way to answer your question until I can 
verify its existence.

>
> If I believe something does not exist does that make it not exist?

If something does not exist, you would not need to disbelieve its 
existence in the first place. It would never be part of your consciousness.

> Does gravity exist because I believe it does?   If I believe it does
> not can I safely jump off a building with no result?

Gravity has already been confirmed by your own physical senses. 
Believing its non-existence will not change that. In other word, your 
physical senses already believed its existence. You would not be able to 
change their belief.

>
> If such a jump kills me and thus ends my existence what does that
> mean?   If reality is only a belief and I don't believe in what kills
> me?

It would be your own wishful thinking that kills you. When you jump off 
a building, you are asking the physical world to confirm that the belief 
of your physical senses is true. The physical world honoured your 
request, so you would not have the chance to disbelieve its existence. 
The Matrix does not take insubordination lightly.

Thread

Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-24 23:40 +0800
  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-24 20:32 -0400
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-26 07:45 +0800
      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-26 03:45 -0400
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 00:31 +0800
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-26 16:48 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 17:33 +0800
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-27 16:41 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-28 11:58 +0800
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-28 09:25 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-29 11:27 +0800
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 01:15 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-29 05:09 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:18 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 10:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-30 10:06 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 11:44 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:40 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-29 22:18 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-30 10:07 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-30 11:18 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-31 05:35 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-31 10:12 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-09-01 02:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-01 01:11 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-01 11:07 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-30 12:08 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-30 23:38 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-31 05:37 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-31 10:08 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-09-01 02:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-31 05:36 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-02 12:18 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 23:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-02 21:15 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. dobri karagorgov <dobrikarate.gov@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 21:54 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. dobri karagorgov <dobrikarate.gov@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 22:11 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 14:18 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-04 00:46 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-04 13:27 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-08 00:17 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 00:29 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-09-08 22:46 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 00:11 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-08-30 10:07 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-30 11:26 -0400

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