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Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter)

Followups directed to: sci.physics.relativity

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Mahipal wrote:

> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> Lahn wrote:

Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.

>> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
>> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a
>> >>> constant value except at low velocities.
>> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
>> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
>> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
                                            ^^^^^^^
>> > science.
>> Only *you* said “fashion”.
   ^^^^^^^^^^ 
> Fashion is just a word. It's fashionable.

More than that, the modern concept of (an invariant) “mass” (Okun 1989 [1], 
Arons 1990 [2], Taylor & Wheeler 1992 [3]) is much easier to understand and 
much more useful than the original concepts of “rest mass” and “relativistic 
mass”.

And I stand corrected: Einstein had never used the term “mass” other than as 
“rest mass”.  He only later (1948) actively advocated to avoid the (now-
outdated) concepts that had been introduced by others (Lewis & Tolman 1909, 
Tolman 1912 and 1934):

,-
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass>
| 
| It is not good to introduce the concept of the mass M = m/\sqrt{1 - 
| v^2/c^2} of a moving body for which no clear definition can be given.
| It is better to introduce no other mass concept than the ’rest mass’ m. 
| Instead of introducing M it is better to mention the expression for the 
| momentum and energy of a body in motion.
|   — Albert Einstein in letter to Lincoln Barnett, 19 June 1948
|     (quote from L. B. Okun (1989), p. 42[1])

[1] L. B. Okun (1989), "The Concept of Mass" (PDF), Physics Today 42 (6): 
    31–36, Bibcode:1989PhT....42f..31O, doi:10.1063/1.881171
[2] A.B. Arons (1990). “A Guide to Introductory Physics Teaching”. p. 263.
    Also in “Teaching Introductory Physics”, 2001, p. 308.
[3] E. F. Taylor, J. A. Wheeler (1992), Spacetime Physics, second edition, 
    New York: W.H. Freeman and Company, pp. 248–249, ISBN 0-7167-2327-1.

> Why the focus on FASHION?

Why, indeed?
 
> The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
> Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
> bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.

You are gibbering.  Please take your pills.
   
>> > OR don't you speak math?
>> 
>> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations* underlying
>> this definition shift.
> 
> We've all seen them equations.

Apparently not.

> Read my lips... There are no new equations!

There are new equations, but not these.
 
> Thomas, there's more to Math than these few equations you focused upon.
>  
> Thomas 'PointedEars,' my friend, let me depersonalize that sentence
> above...

When you are blathering nonsense like that I would rather you not consider 
me your friend.  I would certainly not consider you my friend then: I prefer 
my friends to be *intelligent* people who are thinking *clearly* – not 
gibbering fools.
 
> NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.

What are you blathering about?  I only demonstrated the usefulness of the 
concept of “(invariant) mass” as opposed to “rest mass” and “relativistic 
mass”.
 
> The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.

Of course not.  Nobody claimed that it were.

> Because one has used an equation or two, does not mean one grasps Math.

Understanding math is not the issue here; physics and ways to explain 
(special) relativity are.  In physics, math is a tool.

The concept of invariant mass, which leads to the concepts of rest energy
(when v = 0) and total energy in motion (0 < v ≤ c), can be applied so that 
conservation of momentum holds in all reference frames.  The obsolete 
concept of a “relativistic mass” that changes with velocity cannot, 
therefore too it was abolished.

>> Please stop the amok-crossposting.  F'up2 sci.physics.relativity set.
> 
> Two NGs is gone amok? Glad I stopped crossposting as Google/Alphabet
> forced me to per their limiting and controlling SW algorithms. Oye...

You stopped crossposting (good) but you posted to the wrong newsgroup (bad).  
I think that this was not Google’s (Alphabet is just the umbrella company, 
you are still just a Google customer when you are using Google Groups), but 
your doing.   I wrote “F'up2 sci.physics.*relativity*” for a reason.  F'up2 
*there* again.  Please observe that.
 
> […]
> Is fission fashionable these times? Wolf wolf WOLF. Ain't nothing but
> a Sound Dog. Wolf wolf WOLF... me m(y) Elvis impersonation now...
    ^^^^^
That’s “_Hound_ Dog”: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMmljYkdr-w>

And will you *please* take your pills?

(I would adjust your score now, but the Googlodyte filter was engaged 
already, so I only see your replies to my postings.  Please do not post
more such nonsense and force me to adjust your score separately.)


PointedEars
-- 
Q: Who's on the case when the electricity goes out?  
A: Sherlock Ohms.

(from: WolframAlpha)

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Thread

Gravity needs NO Matter Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-29 10:43 +0000
  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 03:15 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Reggie Harrison" <invalud@example.com> - 2016-01-29 07:18 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:29 -0800
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:40 -0600
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:58 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:57 -0500
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:16 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:32 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Reggie Harrison" <invalud@example.com> - 2016-01-30 17:15 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 17:37 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:12 -0600
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:39 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 15:56 -0600
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 15:31 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 17:43 -0600
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 16:27 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 16:50 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 12:28 -0600
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:50 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:41 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 05:26 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 12:05 -0500
            Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:58 -0500
            Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:17 -0500
              Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:44 -0600
                Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 02:36 -0500
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:39 -0800
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:05 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:15 -0500
  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:40 -0600
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-29 13:50 +0000
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:06 -0800
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:26 -0600
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:33 -0600
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:09 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:17 -0600
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:27 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:22 -0500
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 11:28 -0600
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:41 -0500
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:36 -0600
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 02:30 -0500
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:20 -0800
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-30 14:07 +0100
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:21 -0800
              Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 19:18 +0100
                Re: Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter) Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:30 -0800
                Re: Mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 23:31 +0100
                Re: Mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 14:58 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 22:03 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-01 21:50 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 00:14 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-05 22:38 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 06:34 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:01 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:42 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:11 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:22 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:39 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:06 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 22:32 -0800
                editen sujet noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:14 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:00 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 17:22 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:41 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 18:08 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 09:17 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 18:25 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 09:27 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:45 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-09 23:31 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:41 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-09 23:04 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 22:37 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-10 20:33 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-10 20:44 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 22:57 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-13 19:41 +0100
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 23:08 -0800
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 06:29 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:45 -0600
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 23:38 +0100
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 03:34 -0800
  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:13 -0600
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-29 16:44 +0100
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:25 -0800
    edit subjectif noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 13:22 -0800
      Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 12:27 -0800
        Re: edit subjectif john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 13:04 -0800
          biG and Little pI noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 14:30 -0800
          Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 14:50 -0800
            Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:48 -0800
        Re: edit subjectif HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 03:32 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 06:37 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 22:40 -0800
  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 11:48 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 00:26 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 13:39 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:31 -0800

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