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Groups > sci.physics > #549040 > unrolled thread

Gravity needs NO Matter

Started byJuan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info>
First post2016-01-29 10:43 +0000
Last post2016-02-06 10:31 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 100 — 13 participants

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Contents

  Gravity needs NO Matter Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-29 10:43 +0000
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 03:15 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Reggie Harrison" <invalud@example.com> - 2016-01-29 07:18 -0800
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:29 -0800
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:40 -0600
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:58 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:57 -0500
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:16 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:32 -0800
                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Reggie Harrison" <invalud@example.com> - 2016-01-30 17:15 -0800
                    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 17:37 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:12 -0600
                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:39 -0800
                    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 15:56 -0600
                      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 15:31 -0800
                        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 17:43 -0600
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 16:27 -0800
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 16:50 -0800
                        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 12:28 -0600
                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:50 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:41 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 05:26 -0800
                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 12:05 -0500
              Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:58 -0500
              Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:17 -0500
                Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:44 -0600
                  Re: Ben Jacoby's poverty. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 02:36 -0500
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 23:39 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:05 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:15 -0500
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:40 -0600
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Juan Sebastián <jseb@montserrat.info> - 2016-01-29 13:50 +0000
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:06 -0800
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:26 -0600
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:33 -0600
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 07:09 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:17 -0600
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 06:27 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:22 -0500
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 11:28 -0600
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:41 -0500
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 13:36 -0600
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 02:30 -0500
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:20 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-30 14:07 +0100
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:21 -0800
                Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 19:18 +0100
                  Re: Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter) Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:30 -0800
                    Re: Mass Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 23:31 +0100
                      Re: Mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 14:58 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 22:03 -0800
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-01 21:50 +0100
                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 00:14 -0800
                    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-05 22:38 +0100
                      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 06:34 -0800
                        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:01 -0800
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:42 -0800
                            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:11 -0800
                              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:22 -0800
                            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:39 -0800
                              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:06 -0800
                                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 22:32 -0800
                                editen sujet noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:14 -0800
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:00 -0800
                        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 17:22 +0100
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 08:41 -0800
                            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 18:08 +0100
                              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 09:17 -0800
                                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-06 18:25 +0100
                                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 09:27 -0800
                                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:45 -0800
                                    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-09 23:31 +0100
                          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 10:41 -0800
                            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-09 23:04 +0100
                              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 22:37 -0800
                                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-10 20:33 +0100
                                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-10 20:44 +0100
                                  Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 22:57 -0800
                                    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-13 19:41 +0100
          Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 23:08 -0800
            Re: Gravity needs NO Matter john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 06:29 -0800
              Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 13:45 -0600
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-01-31 23:38 +0100
                Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 03:34 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 08:13 -0600
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-01-29 16:44 +0100
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 07:25 -0800
      edit subjectif noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-01 13:22 -0800
        Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 12:27 -0800
          Re: edit subjectif john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 13:04 -0800
            biG and Little pI noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 14:30 -0800
            Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 14:50 -0800
              Re: edit subjectif "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:48 -0800
          Re: edit subjectif HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 03:32 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 06:37 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 22:40 -0800
    Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 11:48 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 00:26 -0800
        Re: Gravity needs NO Matter noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 13:39 -0800
      Re: Gravity needs NO Matter "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 10:31 -0800

Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →


#549164

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-29 13:41 -0500
Message-ID<KnOqy.365591$983.12948@fx06.iad>
In reply to#549115
On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>> On 01/29/2016 08:40 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 1/29/2016 4:43 AM, Juan Sebastián wrote:
>>>> An error, many of them are doing in Relativity, is saying that mass
>>>> (instead of Matter) is bending space and time. However, this
>>>> actually is
>>>> not an error, but essentially a 2nd Order error they are making (an
>>>> Error
>>>> of an Error).
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, the only property of Matter, applicable to this Mysterious
>>>> process
>>>> of Bending space and time, may only be The Mass. This at a first
>>>> cast of
>>>> the eye over, is not significant, but as shown above, is crucial
>>>> understanding Gravity and what is going on.
>>>>
>>>> Shockingly, it means that Matter is NOT necessary to the process of
>>>> bending of space and time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Matter is defined as a substance having mass and volume. Mass is a
>>> property, not a stuff.
>>>
>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
>> value except at low velocities.
>
> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
> out of date for I think about 7 decades.

Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in 
science. This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is 
"in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to 
be like all your Hollywood heros these days!

So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the 
factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your 
wooden toys.

> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.

But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does. OR don't you 
speak math?

>> I'm worried. This sounds like Odd is actually starting to think for
>> himself. This can't be possible.

Sorry, Odd, I jumped to an erroneous conclusion there. Obviously you are 
not thinking for yourself yet. Fashion is much too important in your 
life. Didn't anyone ever inform you that wooden toys are hundreds of 
years out of fashion?

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549193

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-29 13:36 -0600
Message-ID<n8gevh$1t82$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#549164
On 1/29/2016 12:41 PM, benj wrote:
> On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>>> On 01/29/2016 08:40 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 1/29/2016 4:43 AM, Juan Sebastián wrote:
>>>>> An error, many of them are doing in Relativity, is saying that mass
>>>>> (instead of Matter) is bending space and time. However, this
>>>>> actually is
>>>>> not an error, but essentially a 2nd Order error they are making (an
>>>>> Error
>>>>> of an Error).
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, the only property of Matter, applicable to this Mysterious
>>>>> process
>>>>> of Bending space and time, may only be The Mass. This at a first
>>>>> cast of
>>>>> the eye over, is not significant, but as shown above, is crucial
>>>>> understanding Gravity and what is going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shockingly, it means that Matter is NOT necessary to the process of
>>>>> bending of space and time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matter is defined as a substance having mass and volume. Mass is a
>>>> property, not a stuff.
>>>>
>>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
>>> value except at low velocities.
>>
>> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
>> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
>
> Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
> science. This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
> "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
> be like all your Hollywood heros these days!

Well, it's interesting to me, Ben, that you would say that what you 
learned 7 decades ago is what is still right and that anything that has 
been learned SINCE then is nothing but fashion.

>
> So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
> factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
> wooden toys.

Oh, I know what equation you were referring to. There's another equation 
that you no doubt learned 7 decades ago, and which is of course known to 
be WRONG.

What's ESPECIALLY interesting about that is that Newton himself 
expressed it in words that are more like F=dp/dt, not F=ma. And Newton's 
version is right, while the fashion that led to your antiquated 
education turned it into F=ma. F=ma was then found to be a MISTAKE, and 
what Newton originally wrote is still correct.

>
>> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.
>
> But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does. OR don't you
> speak math?

The coefficient between force and acceleration does change. But you 
called that coefficient mass, and that's not right.

>
>>> I'm worried. This sounds like Odd is actually starting to think for
>>> himself. This can't be possible.
>
> Sorry, Odd, I jumped to an erroneous conclusion there. Obviously you are
> not thinking for yourself yet. Fashion is much too important in your
> life. Didn't anyone ever inform you that wooden toys are hundreds of
> years out of fashion?

Ben, you don't have any family to judge whether wooden toys are out of 
fashion. If they were out of fashion, nobody would buy them. I get that 
YOU have no reason to buy them. But you don't represent anybody but you.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549313

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-30 02:30 -0500
Message-ID<tEZqy.226412$_r1.159845@fx24.iad>
In reply to#549193
On 01/29/2016 02:36 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 12:41 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>>>> On 01/29/2016 08:40 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>> On 1/29/2016 4:43 AM, Juan Sebastián wrote:
>>>>>> An error, many of them are doing in Relativity, is saying that mass
>>>>>> (instead of Matter) is bending space and time. However, this
>>>>>> actually is
>>>>>> not an error, but essentially a 2nd Order error they are making (an
>>>>>> Error
>>>>>> of an Error).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, the only property of Matter, applicable to this Mysterious
>>>>>> process
>>>>>> of Bending space and time, may only be The Mass. This at a first
>>>>>> cast of
>>>>>> the eye over, is not significant, but as shown above, is crucial
>>>>>> understanding Gravity and what is going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shockingly, it means that Matter is NOT necessary to the process of
>>>>>> bending of space and time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Matter is defined as a substance having mass and volume. Mass is a
>>>>> property, not a stuff.
>>>>>
>>>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>>>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
>>>> value except at low velocities.
>>>
>>> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
>>> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
>>
>> Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
>> science. This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
>> "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
>> be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
>
> Well, it's interesting to me, Ben, that you would say that what you
> learned 7 decades ago is what is still right and that anything that has
> been learned SINCE then is nothing but fashion.

SEVEN DECADES AGO? <snort>!

You anonymous internet clowns are so much fun. Even though I'm not 
anonymous, I'm in the phone book and have no CB "Handle", Somehow you 
stoners all have this idea of what I am! Lessee. I'm 100 years old, I've 
never been married. Have no children. Have no education beyond high 
school (some say it's a GED). I work cleaning tables at Burger King. I 
believe in ESP and Ghosts and Oh yeah, we can't forget Hanson: I'm 
Jewish swine who does his Yiddisher street corner act!

Have I covered all your fantasies. Probably not. Einstein says nothing 
is infinite except human stupidity and Lib fantasies.

>> So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
>> factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
>> wooden toys.
>
> Oh, I know what equation you were referring to. There's another equation
> that you no doubt learned 7 decades ago, and which is of course known to
> be WRONG.
>
> What's ESPECIALLY interesting about that is that Newton himself
> expressed it in words that are more like F=dp/dt, not F=ma. And Newton's
> version is right, while the fashion that led to your antiquated
> education turned it into F=ma. F=ma was then found to be a MISTAKE, and
> what Newton originally wrote is still correct.

Newton did not write "your" version. A lot of free interpretation there 
after the fact.

>>> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.
>>
>> But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does. OR don't you
>> speak math?
>
> The coefficient between force and acceleration does change. But you
> called that coefficient mass, and that's not right.

And I call 'empty space" "aether" too. For you it's all in a name and 
words isn't it?  I'll bet you LOVE explaining the "Trinity" to everyone!
Makes you sound SO intelligent!

>>
>>>> I'm worried. This sounds like Odd is actually starting to think for
>>>> himself. This can't be possible.
>>
>> Sorry, Odd, I jumped to an erroneous conclusion there. Obviously you are
>> not thinking for yourself yet. Fashion is much too important in your
>> life. Didn't anyone ever inform you that wooden toys are hundreds of
>> years out of fashion?
>
> Ben, you don't have any family to judge whether wooden toys are out of
> fashion. If they were out of fashion, nobody would buy them. I get that
> YOU have no reason to buy them. But you don't represent anybody but you.

Oh here we go! Yeah I covered all your fantasies about me above. And yes 
I do only represent me, which does not mean I don't have any family. 
Which is unlike you and HVAC and the other shills here who represent 
those in power and their agenda.

You ignorant libs are a HOOT!  All of you together can't even come up 
with one clue about reality, but your fantasies are a dime a dozen.

As Hanson says: Thanks for the laughs!

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549365

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-30 07:20 -0800
Message-ID<56057586-3f3a-4a93-aa4a-ffbd6d6d2567@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549193
On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 9:36:23 PM UTC+2, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 1/29/2016 12:41 PM, benj wrote:
> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
> >>> On 01/29/2016 08:40 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 1/29/2016 4:43 AM, Juan Sebastián wrote:
> >>>>> An error, many of them are doing in Relativity, is saying that mass
> >>>>> (instead of Matter) is bending space and time. However, this
> >>>>> actually is
> >>>>> not an error, but essentially a 2nd Order error they are making (an
> >>>>> Error
> >>>>> of an Error).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Indeed, the only property of Matter, applicable to this Mysterious
> >>>>> process
> >>>>> of Bending space and time, may only be The Mass. This at a first
> >>>>> cast of
> >>>>> the eye over, is not significant, but as shown above, is crucial
> >>>>> understanding Gravity and what is going on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Shockingly, it means that Matter is NOT necessary to the process of
> >>>>> bending of space and time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Matter is defined as a substance having mass and volume. Mass is a
> >>>> property, not a stuff.
> >>>>
> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
> >>> value except at low velocities.
> >>
> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
> >
> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
> > science. This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
> > "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
> > be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
> 
> Well, it's interesting to me, Ben, that you would say that what you 
> learned 7 decades ago is what is still right and that anything that has 
> been learned SINCE then is nothing but fashion.
> 
> >
> > So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
> > factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
> > wooden toys.
> 
> Oh, I know what equation you were referring to. There's another equation 
> that you no doubt learned 7 decades ago, and which is of course known to 
> be WRONG.
> 
> What's ESPECIALLY interesting about that is that Newton himself 
> expressed it in words that are more like F=dp/dt, not F=ma. And Newton's 
> version is right, while the fashion that led to your antiquated 
> education turned it into F=ma. F=ma was then found to be a MISTAKE, and 
> what Newton originally wrote is still correct.
> 
> >
> >> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.
> >
> > But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does. OR don't you
> > speak math?
> 
> The coefficient between force and acceleration does change. But you 
> called that coefficient mass, and that's not right.
> 
> >
> >>> I'm worried. This sounds like Odd is actually starting to think for
> >>> himself. This can't be possible.
> >
> > Sorry, Odd, I jumped to an erroneous conclusion there. Obviously you are
> > not thinking for yourself yet. Fashion is much too important in your
> > life. Didn't anyone ever inform you that wooden toys are hundreds of
> > years out of fashion?
> 
> Ben, you don't have any family to judge whether wooden toys are out of 
> fashion. If they were out of fashion, nobody would buy them. I get that 
> YOU have no reason to buy them. But you don't represent anybody but you.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
========================
imbecile   pig blockhead 

E= hf 
h contained  the kilogram  mass 
so were  the hell you see there 
ANYTHING TO MULTIPLY THAT KILOGRAM 
BY ZERO OR BY ANY RELATIVISTIC COEFFICIENT???!!

HEY Mr anonymous  P D a  Walking  DAMAGE FOR SCIENCE  !!!
????
just go on with your wooden head toys 
and don t disturb advance of science 

Y.Porat
====================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549341

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-01-30 14:07 +0100
Message-ID<1785393.N3ZkzCx3AT@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#549164
benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:

> On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
>>> value except at low velocities.
>> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
>> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
> 
> Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
> science.

Only *you* said “fashion”.

> This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
> "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
> be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
> 
> So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
> factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
> wooden toys.

You just do not realize that the definition of a “relativistic mass” m_rel 
that increases with relative speed v according to

      E = m_rel c²

  m_rel = γm₀ = m₀∕√(1 − (v∕c)²)

was a rather confusing concept (especially to students) that Einstein 
himself deprecated later.  It is *easier* to consider that what really 
increases with relative speed is the total *energy* that an object has (thus 
the work that it can do, as its kinetic energy must be increased in order to 
put it into relative motion; the total energy in relative motion then also 
called “relativistic energy” as opposed to “rest energy”, its energy in its 
rest frame), so that there is only mass m = m₀ (previously called “rest 
mass”, i.e. the mass of an object in its rest frame), and that the energy–
momentum relation

  E = √((mc²)² + (pc)²),

derived from the norm of the four-momentum P⃗ = (E∕c, p⃗), holds both for 
objects with non-zero (rest) mass and objects with zero (rest) mass such as 
photons, whereas for m > 0 and 0 < v < c

   p = γmv = mv∕√(1 − (v∕c)²),

and for photons (m = 0)

   p = ℎf∕c

(the momentum p and thus the energy of a photon E = ℎf = pc does not depend 
on its speed which is always c, it only depends on the frequency/wavelength 
of the light, in agreement with the observations of the photoelectric 
effect), while for m > 0 and v = 0 it is *still*

   E = mc².

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass>

>> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.
> 
> But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does.

Actually, in special relativity it does not.  What changes is the four-
velocity-dependent four-acceleration:

  F⃗ = dP⃗∕dτ = m A

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-force>

> OR don't you speak math?

Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations* underlying 
this definition shift.


Please stop the amok-crossposting.  F'up2 sci.physics.relativity set.


PointedEars
-- 
Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
   when he went camping?  
A: 'Gone fission'.
(from: WolframAlpha)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549366

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-30 07:21 -0800
Message-ID<742e86a1-ee4e-462a-8940-83a932baad2e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549341
On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
> 
> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
> >>> value except at low velocities.
> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
> > 
> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
> > science.
> 
> Only *you* said “fashion”.

Fashion is just a word. It's fashionable. Why the focus on FASHION?

The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.
 
> > This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
> > "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
> > be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
> > 
> > So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
> > factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
> > wooden toys.
> 
> You just do not realize that the definition of a “relativistic mass” m_rel 
> that increases with relative speed v according to
> 
>       E = m_rel c²
> 
>   m_rel = γm₀ = m₀∕√(1 − (v∕c)²)

I have an LatinIshQ Math Equation for “fashionized mass” that will... youKnow.

> was a rather confusing concept (especially to students) that Einstein 
> himself deprecated later.  It is *easier* to consider that what really 
> increases with relative speed is the total *energy* that an object has (thus 
> the work that it can do, as its kinetic energy must be increased in order to 
> put it into relative motion; the total energy in relative motion then also 
> called “relativistic energy” as opposed to “rest energy”, its energy in its 
> rest frame), so that there is only mass m = m₀ (previously called “rest 
> mass”, i.e. the mass of an object in its rest frame), and that the energy–
> momentum relation
> 
>   E = √((mc²)² + (pc)²),
> 
> derived from the norm of the four-momentum P⃗ = (E∕c, p⃗), holds both for 
> objects with non-zero (rest) mass and objects with zero (rest) mass such as 
> photons, whereas for m > 0 and 0 < v < c
> 
>    p = γmv = mv∕√(1 − (v∕c)²),
> 
> and for photons (m = 0)
> 
>    p = ℎf∕c
> 
> (the momentum p and thus the energy of a photon E = ℎf = pc does not depend 
> on its speed which is always c, it only depends on the frequency/wavelength 
> of the light, in agreement with the observations of the photoelectric 
> effect), while for m > 0 and v = 0 it is *still*
> 
>    E = mc².
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass>
> 
> >> Mass is invariant and does not change with velocity, in current usage.
> > 
> > But the coefficient between Force and acceleration does.
> 
> Actually, in special relativity it does not.  What changes is the four-
> velocity-dependent four-acceleration:
> 
>   F⃗ = dP⃗∕dτ = m A
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-force>
> 
> > OR don't you speak math?
> 
> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations* underlying 
> this definition shift.

We've all seen them equations. Read my lips... There are no new equations!

Thomas, there's more to Math than these few equations you focused upon.

Thomas 'PointedEars,' my friend, let me depersonalize that sentence above...

NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.

The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.

Because one has used an equation or two, does not mean one grasps Math.

> Please stop the amok-crossposting.  F'up2 sci.physics.relativity set.

Two NGs is gone amok? Glad I stopped crossposting as Google/Alphabet
forced me to per their limiting and controlling SW algorithms. Oye...

> PointedEars
> -- 
> Q: What did the nuclear physicist post on the laboratory door
>    when he went camping?  
> A: 'Gone fission'.
> (from: WolframAlpha)

Is fission fashionable these times? Wolf wolf WOLF. Ain't nothing but
a Sound Dog. Wolf wolf WOLF... me m(y) Elvis impersonation now...

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: A song to capture my MathIshQ Wow?!”

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549552 — Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter)

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-01-31 19:18 +0100
SubjectMass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter)
Message-ID<1900730.lnHuvmxTpX@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#549366
Mahipal wrote:

> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> Lahn wrote:

Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.

>> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
>> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
>> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
>> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a
>> >>> constant value except at low velocities.
>> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
>> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
>> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
                                            ^^^^^^^
>> > science.
>> Only *you* said “fashion”.
   ^^^^^^^^^^ 
> Fashion is just a word. It's fashionable.

More than that, the modern concept of (an invariant) “mass” (Okun 1989 [1], 
Arons 1990 [2], Taylor & Wheeler 1992 [3]) is much easier to understand and 
much more useful than the original concepts of “rest mass” and “relativistic 
mass”.

And I stand corrected: Einstein had never used the term “mass” other than as 
“rest mass”.  He only later (1948) actively advocated to avoid the (now-
outdated) concepts that had been introduced by others (Lewis & Tolman 1909, 
Tolman 1912 and 1934):

,-
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass>
| 
| It is not good to introduce the concept of the mass M = m/\sqrt{1 - 
| v^2/c^2} of a moving body for which no clear definition can be given.
| It is better to introduce no other mass concept than the ’rest mass’ m. 
| Instead of introducing M it is better to mention the expression for the 
| momentum and energy of a body in motion.
|   — Albert Einstein in letter to Lincoln Barnett, 19 June 1948
|     (quote from L. B. Okun (1989), p. 42[1])

[1] L. B. Okun (1989), "The Concept of Mass" (PDF), Physics Today 42 (6): 
    31–36, Bibcode:1989PhT....42f..31O, doi:10.1063/1.881171
[2] A.B. Arons (1990). “A Guide to Introductory Physics Teaching”. p. 263.
    Also in “Teaching Introductory Physics”, 2001, p. 308.
[3] E. F. Taylor, J. A. Wheeler (1992), Spacetime Physics, second edition, 
    New York: W.H. Freeman and Company, pp. 248–249, ISBN 0-7167-2327-1.

> Why the focus on FASHION?

Why, indeed?
 
> The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
> Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
> bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.

You are gibbering.  Please take your pills.
   
>> > OR don't you speak math?
>> 
>> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations* underlying
>> this definition shift.
> 
> We've all seen them equations.

Apparently not.

> Read my lips... There are no new equations!

There are new equations, but not these.
 
> Thomas, there's more to Math than these few equations you focused upon.
>  
> Thomas 'PointedEars,' my friend, let me depersonalize that sentence
> above...

When you are blathering nonsense like that I would rather you not consider 
me your friend.  I would certainly not consider you my friend then: I prefer 
my friends to be *intelligent* people who are thinking *clearly* – not 
gibbering fools.
 
> NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.

What are you blathering about?  I only demonstrated the usefulness of the 
concept of “(invariant) mass” as opposed to “rest mass” and “relativistic 
mass”.
 
> The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.

Of course not.  Nobody claimed that it were.

> Because one has used an equation or two, does not mean one grasps Math.

Understanding math is not the issue here; physics and ways to explain 
(special) relativity are.  In physics, math is a tool.

The concept of invariant mass, which leads to the concepts of rest energy
(when v = 0) and total energy in motion (0 < v ≤ c), can be applied so that 
conservation of momentum holds in all reference frames.  The obsolete 
concept of a “relativistic mass” that changes with velocity cannot, 
therefore too it was abolished.

>> Please stop the amok-crossposting.  F'up2 sci.physics.relativity set.
> 
> Two NGs is gone amok? Glad I stopped crossposting as Google/Alphabet
> forced me to per their limiting and controlling SW algorithms. Oye...

You stopped crossposting (good) but you posted to the wrong newsgroup (bad).  
I think that this was not Google’s (Alphabet is just the umbrella company, 
you are still just a Google customer when you are using Google Groups), but 
your doing.   I wrote “F'up2 sci.physics.*relativity*” for a reason.  F'up2 
*there* again.  Please observe that.
 
> […]
> Is fission fashionable these times? Wolf wolf WOLF. Ain't nothing but
> a Sound Dog. Wolf wolf WOLF... me m(y) Elvis impersonation now...
    ^^^^^
That’s “_Hound_ Dog”: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMmljYkdr-w>

And will you *please* take your pills?

(I would adjust your score now, but the Googlodyte filter was engaged 
already, so I only see your replies to my postings.  Please do not post
more such nonsense and force me to adjust your score separately.)


PointedEars
-- 
Q: Who's on the case when the electricity goes out?  
A: Sherlock Ohms.

(from: WolframAlpha)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549588 — Re: Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter)

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-31 13:30 -0800
SubjectRe: Mass (was: Gravity needs NO Matter)
Message-ID<cff05814-c4fd-43d7-b7d0-018c88587225@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549552
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:18:10 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Mahipal wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> > Lahn wrote:
> 
> Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.

Too many words? My bad.
 
> >> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
> >> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
> >> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
> >> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a
> >> >>> constant value except at low velocities.
> >> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
> >> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
> >> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
>                                             ^^^^^^^
> >> > science.
> >> Only *you* said “fashion”.
>    ^^^^^^^^^^ 
> > Fashion is just a word. It's fashionable.
> 
> More than that, the modern concept of (an invariant) “mass” (Okun 1989 [1], 
> Arons 1990 [2], Taylor & Wheeler 1992 [3]) is much easier to understand and 
> much more useful than the original concepts of “rest mass” and “relativistic 
> mass”.
> 
> And I stand corrected: Einstein had never used the term “mass” other than as 
> “rest mass”.  He only later (1948) actively advocated to avoid the (now-
> outdated) concepts that had been introduced by others (Lewis & Tolman 1909, 
> Tolman 1912 and 1934):
> 
> ,-
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass>
> | 
> | It is not good to introduce the concept of the mass M = m/\sqrt{1 - 
> | v^2/c^2} of a moving body for which no clear definition can be given.
> | It is better to introduce no other mass concept than the ’rest mass’ m. 
> | Instead of introducing M it is better to mention the expression for the 
> | momentum and energy of a body in motion.
> |   — Albert Einstein in letter to Lincoln Barnett, 19 June 1948
> |     (quote from L. B. Okun (1989), p. 42[1])
> 
> [1] L. B. Okun (1989), "The Concept of Mass" (PDF), Physics Today 42 (6): 
>     31–36, Bibcode:1989PhT....42f..31O, doi:10.1063/1.881171
> [2] A.B. Arons (1990). “A Guide to Introductory Physics Teaching”. p. 263.
>     Also in “Teaching Introductory Physics”, 2001, p. 308.
> [3] E. F. Taylor, J. A. Wheeler (1992), Spacetime Physics, second edition, 
>     New York: W.H. Freeman and Company, pp. 248–249, ISBN 0-7167-2327-1.

John A. Wheeler was a good personal friend of mine back in the 1990s. 
Then he JAW died, I hate that. One of the kindest men one ever could be.
 
> > Why the focus on FASHION?
> 
> Why, indeed?
>  
> > The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
> > Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
> > bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.
> 
> You are gibbering.  Please take your pills.

What pills? That I talk too much, I attribute to being prolific. If
your attention span is Twitter limited, then you know where to go.
    
> >> > OR don't you speak math?
> >> 
> >> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations* underlying
> >> this definition shift.
> > 
> > We've all seen them equations.
> 
> Apparently not.

Why Thomas? Only you have access to actual real math books?

> > Read my lips... There are no new equations!
> 
> There are new equations, but not these.

Until new Axioms are realized, there are no new equations. IMO.
I am allowed to have an opinion or you Thomas will get offended?!
  
> > Thomas, there's more to Math than these few equations you focused upon.
> >  
> > Thomas 'PointedEars,' my friend, let me depersonalize that sentence
> > above...
> 
> When you are blathering nonsense like that I would rather you not consider 
> me your friend.  I would certainly not consider you my friend then: I prefer 
> my friends to be *intelligent* people who are thinking *clearly* – not 
> gibbering fools.

Well, despite my style, I hope you learn not to remain so dense, Thomas.
 
> > NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.
> 
> What are you blathering about?  I only demonstrated the usefulness of the 
> concept of “(invariant) mass” as opposed to “rest mass” and “relativistic 
> mass”.
>  
> > The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.
> 
> Of course not.  Nobody claimed that it were.

Then Thomas change your fucking writing style/habit/fashion/whatever.
 
> > Because one has used an equation or two, does not mean one grasps Math.
> 
> Understanding math is not the issue here; physics and ways to explain 
> (special) relativity are.  In physics, math is a tool.

Yes. So is not limiting one's physics study to relativity alone at s.p.r.!

> The concept of invariant mass, which leads to the concepts of rest energy
> (when v = 0) and total energy in motion (0 < v ≤ c), can be applied so that 
> conservation of momentum holds in all reference frames.  The obsolete 
> concept of a “relativistic mass” that changes with velocity cannot, 
> therefore too it was abolished.

Abolised? If you say so. Sure. Lighten up Thomas.

> >> Please stop the amok-crossposting.  F'up2 sci.physics.relativity set.
> > 
> > Two NGs is gone amok? Glad I stopped crossposting as Google/Alphabet
> > forced me to per their limiting and controlling SW algorithms. Oye...
> 
> You stopped crossposting (good) but you posted to the wrong newsgroup (bad).  
> I think that this was not Google’s (Alphabet is just the umbrella company, 
> you are still just a Google customer when you are using Google Groups), but 
> your doing.   I wrote “F'up2 sci.physics.*relativity*” for a reason.  F'up2 
> *there* again.  Please observe that.

How is that follow-up setting thing working for you? Last I read...

No thank you Thomas. I can't post to s.p.r. since... The Incident. 
No I don't want to talk about it and novels are not your thing.

> > […]
> > Is fission fashionable these times? Wolf wolf WOLF. Ain't nothing but
> > a Sound Dog. Wolf wolf WOLF... me m(y) Elvis impersonation now...
>     ^^^^^
> That’s “_Hound_ Dog”: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMmljYkdr-w>

Of course it's Hound, that's what makes Sound sound funny! Lighten up!
Why must you ruin my joke PointedEars Thomas?! Have a beer and relax.

> And will you *please* take your pills?

I don't do pills. Check my HIPPA records. Three clicks to the right.
 
> (I would adjust your score now, but the Googlodyte filter was engaged 
> already, so I only see your replies to my postings.  Please do not post
> more such nonsense and force me to adjust your score separately.)

There exist easier ways to ignore me on Usenet or on the streets.
 
> 
> PointedEars
> -- 
> Q: Who's on the case when the electricity goes out?  
> A: Sherlock Ohms.
> 
> (from: WolframAlpha)

How can you post that joke while not getting Sound from Hound?!

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: Thomas, see the light. Duck!”

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#549597 — Re: Mass

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-01-31 23:31 +0100
SubjectRe: Mass
Message-ID<15475734.LklI9sxiP4@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#549588
Mahipal wrote:

> On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:18:10 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> wrote:
>> Mahipal wrote:
>> > On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
>> > Lahn wrote:
>> Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.
> 
> Too many words? My bad.

Not too many words, but superfluous information.  Most of it is in the 
header already.
  
>> > The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
>> > Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
>> > bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.
>> You are gibbering.  Please take your pills.
> 
> What pills?

Those that prevent you from further posting like a gibbering fool, 
hopefully.

> That I talk too much, I attribute to being prolific.

I don’t.

> If your attention span is Twitter limited, then you know where to go.

My attention span is not limited at all; you are just blathering utter 
nonsense.

>> >> > OR don't you speak math?
>> >> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations*
>> >> underlying this definition shift.
>> > We've all seen them equations.
>> Apparently not.
> 
> Why Thomas? 

Had “benj” already seen the equations that I posted, there would have been 
no doubt in their mind that invariant mass is not mere fashion, and they 
would not have blathered about “speaking math”.

> Only you have access to actual real math books?

Again, math is not the issue here.

>> > Read my lips... There are no new equations!
>> There are new equations, but not these.
> 
> Until new Axioms are realized, there are no new equations. IMO.
> I am allowed to have an opinion or you Thomas will get offended?!

You are allowed to have an opinion, but your opinion is not necessarily 
correct or makes sense.  In this case, it does not make *any* sense, 
*again*.
   
>> When you are blathering nonsense like that I would rather you not
>> consider me your friend.  I would certainly not consider you my friend 
>> then: I prefer my friends to be *intelligent* people who are thinking
>> *clearly* – not gibbering fools.
> 
> Well, despite my style, I hope you learn not to remain so dense, Thomas.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but it reads like an insult.
  
>> > NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.
>> What are you blathering about?  I only demonstrated the usefulness of the
>> concept of “(invariant) mass” as opposed to “rest mass” and “relativistic
>> mass”.
>>  
>> > The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.
>> Of course not.  Nobody claimed that it were.
> 
> Then Thomas change your fucking writing style/habit/fashion/whatever.

I have a better idea: I add you to my killfile instead as you are apparently 
just a gibbering, foul-mouthed Google Groups troll.  Then you can blather as 
much nonsense as you want, as many insults as you want, without me being 
aware of it and further wasting my precious free time.  How about that?

And which part of “please post to the newsgroup that I set Followup-To” did 
you not understand?

> [tl;dr]


F'up2 poster  

PointedEars
-- 
Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity
   does it take to change a light bulb?  
A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe.
(from: WolframAlpha)

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#549601 — Re: Mass

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-31 14:58 -0800
SubjectRe: Mass
Message-ID<56d89eba-42a0-41b8-b679-7f5c82ec0381@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549597
On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 5:32:02 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Mahipal wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:18:10 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
> > wrote:
> >> Mahipal wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 8:07:31 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> >> > Lahn wrote:
> >> Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.
> > 
> > Too many words? My bad.
> 
> Not too many words, but superfluous information.  Most of it is in the 
> header already.

So what? Bits are abundant and are better to use accurately than not@all.
   
> >> > The meaning of fashion Fashion FASHION will be hijacked by evening.
> >> > Only to repeat hijack its meaning tomorrow. Repeat until silence. I
> >> > bet there's a math equation to signify/solidify this sentiment mine.
> >> You are gibbering.  Please take your pills.
> > 
> > What pills?
> 
> Those that prevent you from further posting like a gibbering fool, 
> hopefully.

Can you write me a prescription PointedEars One Thomas?
 
> > That I talk too much, I attribute to being prolific.
> 
> I don’t.

You have no sense of humour either despite your stolen sig lines.
 
> > If your attention span is Twitter limited, then you know where to go.
> 
> My attention span is not limited at all; you are just blathering utter 
> nonsense.

Whereas you Thomas are the font of knowledge! So cute. Grow up!
 
> >> >> > OR don't you speak math?
> >> >> Do you?  I have just given you the history and the *equations*
> >> >> underlying this definition shift.
> >> > We've all seen them equations.
> >> Apparently not.
> > 
> > Why Thomas? 
> 
> Had “benj” already seen the equations that I posted, there would have been 
> no doubt in their mind that invariant mass is not mere fashion, and they 
> would not have blathered about “speaking math”.
 
No need to quote benj. He is Ben Jacoby. Always has been. A godsend to boot.
 
> > Only you have access to actual real math books?
> 
> Again, math is not the issue here.

No it's not, only your many defintions of quoted mass.
 
> >> > Read my lips... There are no new equations!
> >> There are new equations, but not these.
> > 
> > Until new Axioms are realized, there are no new equations. IMO.
> > I am allowed to have an opinion or you Thomas will get offended?!
> 
> You are allowed to have an opinion, but your opinion is not necessarily 
> correct or makes sense.  In this case, it does not make *any* sense, 
> *again*.

Only you Thomas can make sense. Enjoy your ignorance.
    
> >> When you are blathering nonsense like that I would rather you not
> >> consider me your friend.  I would certainly not consider you my friend 
> >> then: I prefer my friends to be *intelligent* people who are thinking
> >> *clearly* – not gibbering fools.
> > 
> > Well, despite my style, I hope you learn not to remain so dense, Thomas.
> 
> I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but it reads like an insult.

It was meant as friendly advice. Sorry for the missing emoticon, Spock.

> >> > NFAR: There's more to Math than these few equations focused upon.
> >> What are you blathering about?  I only demonstrated the usefulness of the
> >> concept of “(invariant) mass” as opposed to “rest mass” and “relativistic
> >> mass”.
> >>  
> >> > The domain of Math is not limited to Physics.
> >> Of course not.  Nobody claimed that it were.
> > 
> > Then Thomas change your fucking writing style/habit/fashion/whatever.
> 
> I have a better idea: I add you to my killfile instead as you are apparently 
> just a gibbering, foul-mouthed Google Groups troll.  Then you can blather as 
> much nonsense as you want, as many insults as you want, without me being 
> aware of it and further wasting my precious free time.  How about that?

Given what you wrote first, calling me foul-mouthed is rather
expected. Go ahead, kill-file me, it's your loss my friend afterall.

> And which part of “please post to the newsgroup that I set Followup-To” did 
> you not understand?

Which part of I don't do s.p.r. did you not get?

> > [tl;dr]
> 
> 
> F'up2 poster  
> 
> PointedEars
> -- 
> Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity
>    does it take to change a light bulb?  
> A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe.
> (from: WolframAlpha)

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: Grow up and write your own sig lines.”

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#549634

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-01-31 22:03 -0800
Message-ID<3a9a2f6f-7601-41de-8004-e36b9f8df0e7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549341
On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 3:07:31 PM UTC+2, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
> 
> > On 01/29/2016 12:28 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 1/29/2016 11:22 AM, benj wrote:
> >>> In fact mass is the mathematical coefficient between the acceleration
> >>> observed in an object and force producing it. It is not even a constant
> >>> value except at low velocities.
> >> That definition of mass you just described is antiquated and has been
> >> out of date for I think about 7 decades.
> > 
> > Oh gosh, Boinker. How interesting that fashion is SO important in
> > science.
> 
> Only *you* said “fashion”.
> 
> > This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
> > "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
> > be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
> > 
> > So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
> > factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
> > wooden toys.
> 
> You just do not realize that the definition of a “relativistic mass” m_rel 
> that increases with relative speed v according to
>======================================= 
>       E = m_rel c²
===================================
i can write 
m babayaga c^2
 as well as you write  
m rel 
why not??
the paper can suffer anything you mumble on it
-------- 
>   m_rel = γm₀ = m₀∕√(1 − (v∕c)²)
while  (1 − (v∕c)²
you get while v = c
you get infinity !!
do you understand what is it 
so  please open your hears whidly

ITIS UNDEFINED !!!
got it parrot 
UN DEFINED  EVEN   MATHEMATICALLY  !!
-------

> 
> was a rather confusing concept (especially to students) that Einstein 
> himself deprecated later.  It is *easier* to consider that what really 
> increases with relative speed is the total *energy* 
---------
common man 
=====that is your private story !!


that an object has (thus 


> the work that it can do, as its kinetic energy must be increased in order to 
> put it into relative motion; the total energy in relative motion then also 
> called “relativistic energy” as opposed to “rest energy”, its energy in its 
> rest frame), so that there is only mass m = m₀ (previously called “rest 
> mass”, i.e. the mass of an object in its rest frame), and that the energy–
> momentum relation
> 
>   E = √((mc²)² + (pc)²),
================================
another stupidity cheating !!

THAT FORMULA IS FOR -
LISTEN CAREFULLY PARROT 
IT IS FOR A **MIXTURE* OF ENERGY PLUS PARTICLES !!

2
where do you see in m of momentum
anything relativistic ???
any relativistic coefficient ???
===== 
> 
> derived from the norm of the four-momentum P⃗ = (E∕c, p⃗), holds both for 
> objects with non-zero (rest) mass and objects with zero (rest) mass such as 
> photons, whereas for m > 0 and 0 < v < c
> 
>    p = γmv = mv∕√(1 − (v∕c)²),
=============================
that is as well your mathematical cheating 
ie
one cheating based on another same cheating 
> 
> and for photons (m = 0)
=======================
imbecileparrot
see the formula for photon energy:
E=hf 
that was found experimentally 5 years before any relativity!!
see the dimensions of h 
it includes MASS (KILOGRAM )
SO
WHERE THE FUCK YOU SEE IN THAT hf
ANYTHING TO  MULTIPLY THOSE KILOGRAMS BY
ANYTHING RELATIVISTIC OR BY ZERO ??

enough is enough with HARMFUL stupidity!!
old copyright 
Eng Yehiel Porat
===========================

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#549795

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-02-01 21:50 +0100
Message-ID<2432664.KxaQKCeqG6@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#549634
Y.Porat wrote in <news:sci.physics>:

> On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 3:07:31 PM UTC+2, Thomas 'PointedEars'
> Lahn wrote:

Attribution _line_, not attribution novel.

>> benj wrote in <news:sci.physics.relativity> and <news:sci.physics>:
>> > This is why you always need "authorities" to tell you what is
>> > "in". I presume you have a nice stubbly growth of hair on your face to
>> > be like all your Hollywood heros these days!
>> > 
>> > So you can't just look at the equation F = ma and notice that m is the
>> > factor between F and a? Are you REALLY that ignorant? Go back to your
>> > wooden toys.
>> 
>> You just do not realize that the definition of a “relativistic mass”
>> m_rel that increases with relative speed v according to
>>=======================================

I did not post those delimiters; you have forged the quotation.

>>       E = m_rel c²
> ===================================
> i can write
> m babayaga c^2
>  as well as you write
> m rel

I wrote “m_rel” instead, the underscore indicating a following subscript.

> why not??
> the paper can suffer anything you mumble on it

The symbols that I have used have a specific meaning, though, and that 
meaning differs as the symbols differ (as it should be).  AISB, m_rel 
specifies the previous, now-obsolete, concept of a velocity-dependent (not 
invariant) relativistic mass.

Besides, “babayaga” as-is is not an appropriate symbol in a physics equation 
as there would always be doubt whether it would be equivalent to b²a⁴yg.

> --------
>>   m_rel = γm₀ = m₀∕√(1 − (v∕c)²)
> while  (1 − (v∕c)²
> you get while v = c
> you get infinity !!

Not quite; the value for m_rel *approaches* infinity (m_rel → ∞) as v 
*approaches* c (v → c), and m_rel is not defined at v = c.  You also get 
that with the aforementioned (and futher below expanded) equation for 
relativistic momentum,

  p = γ m v = m v∕√(1 − (v∕c)²).

One of the conclusions from special relativity is that no object with 
m = m₀ > 0 can move at c as for that it would have to be supplied with an 
infinite amount of extra energy.

It can be seen even better in the equation for relativistic kinetic energy,

  E_k = m γ c² − m c² = m c²∕√(1 − (v/c)²) − m c²

where m c²∕√(1 − (v/c)²) → ∞ as v → c.  So, IOW, “the work expended 
accelerating an object [with non-zero mass; the ed.] from rest approaches 
infinity as the velocity approaches the speed of light.”

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy#Relativistic_kinetic_energy_of_rigid_bodies>

> […]
>> was a rather confusing concept (especially to students) that Einstein
>> himself deprecated later.  It is *easier* to consider that what really
>> increases with relative speed is the total *energy*
> ---------
> common man

Did you mean to write “come on, man” instead?

> =====that is your private story !!

No, it is not.  Read the quotations that I posted and follow the references.

[repaired quotation]
 
>> that an object has (thus the work that it can do, as its kinetic energy
>> must be increased in order to put it into relative motion; the total
>> energy in relative motion then also called “relativistic energy” as
>> opposed to “rest energy”, its energy in its rest frame), so that there is
>> only mass m = m₀ (previously called “rest mass”, i.e. the mass of an
>> object in its rest frame), and that the energy– momentum relation
>> 
>>   E = √((mc²)² + (pc)²),
> ================================
> another stupidity cheating !!

There is no cheating, see e.g. 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy%E2%80%93momentum_relation#Norm_of_the_four-momentum>.
 
> THAT FORMULA IS FOR -
> LISTEN CAREFULLY PARROT

Your Shift key appears to be stuck.

> IT IS FOR A **MIXTURE* OF ENERGY PLUS PARTICLES !!

Nonsense.  Energy is a *property* of a physical object such as a particle; 
it is not a separate entity.  Every physical object has an energy; objects 
that have non-zero mass have a rest energy in their rest frame of reference. 
When they are moving, that is, when their velocity relative to a frame of 
reference that is not co-moving with them is not zero, and so their momentum 
is not zero, they have gained kinetic energy for an observer whose rest 
frame is that frame of reference.
 
> 2
> where do you see in m of momentum
> anything relativistic ???
> any relativistic coefficient ???

See below.
 
> =====
>> 
>> derived from the norm of the four-momentum P⃗ = (E∕c, p⃗), holds both for
>> objects with non-zero (rest) mass and objects with zero (rest) mass such
>> as photons, whereas for m > 0 and 0 < v < c
>> 
>>    p = γmv = mv∕√(1 − (v∕c)²),
> =============================
> that is as well your mathematical cheating
> ie
> one cheating based on another same cheating

There is no cheating.  γ (\gamma) is the Lorentz factor, *the* "relativistic 
coefficient".  In full (and less ambiguous), the above is:

  p = γ m v

  γ = 1∕√(1 − (v∕c)²)

  p = 1∕√(1 − (v∕c)²) × mv

  p = m v∕√(1 − (v∕c)²). ∎

>> and for photons (m = 0)
> =======================
> imbecileparrot
> see the formula for photon energy:
> E=hf
> that was found experimentally 5 years before any relativity!!

One of the good things about special relativity is that it confirms Planck’s 
equations (and probably Einstein would not have published “On the 
Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies” and subsequent works on special relativity 
like this if he had found that Minkowski spacetime would not support 
Planck’s quantum idea that he [Einstein] just confirmed about three months 
earlier in “On a Heuristic Viewpoint Concerning the Production and 
Transformation of Light”).

Let us assume that the energy–momentum relation

  E = √((m c²)² + (p c)²)      (1)

holds for all physical objects.

For a photon, we know that

  p = ℎ f∕c,                   (2)

and we assume for it

  m := 0.                      (3)

Applying (2) and (3) to (1) yields

  E = √((0 × c²)² + (ℎ f∕c × c)²)

  E = √(0         + (ℎ f)²)

  E = √(ℎ f)²

  E = ℎ f. ∎  (Planck–Einstein relation)

One can also easily see that for a photon

  E = ℎ f = p c.


F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
-- 
Two neutrinos go through a bar ...

(from: WolframAlpha)

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#550629

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-05 00:14 -0800
Message-ID<dbe6360d-1fa1-4da8-a698-92199304bc89@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#549795
On Monday, February 1, 2016 > -- 
> Two neutrinos go through a bar ...
> 
> (from: WolframAlpha)
=====================================
=======================================
you are a common  parrot manipulator !!

if V= c
gamma becomes undefined ***even mathematically**!!
and you  jangler manipulations want help  you!!
you cant fish in dirty water !!


2
in that case 
see the formula 
E=hf photon Energy 
it was found  EXPERIMENTALLY 5 YEARS BEFORE RELATIVITY !!!
Planck didn t use any F en relativistic entity/TOOL  to define it EXPERIMENTALLY 
----
h has the Kilogram dimension !!!!!
GOT IT ??!!!
 and
nothing F en relativistic  there
nor anything to multiply it by zero!!
Epstein was wrong by claiming that
NO MASS CAN REACH c
 MASS OF PHOTONS DOES IT !!!
the mass of the photon is an exception to the rule that
no mass can reach c 
you can see even by experimental  EVIDENCE  
that
as MASS COMES  becomes  smaller and smaller 
IT CAN REACH -CLOSER AND CLOSER TO C !!!! 
old copyright by me 
2
=============================================
NO MASS THE ONLY *** MASS - NO REAL PHYSICS !!
================================================
please don t forget who is the father of that 
important historical most basic  physical assertion !!

it can save tone on  tons of physics bublings

and  save a  wast of a huge amount of** ****precious**human resources !!! 
and lead to some new  useful physics 

TIA
Y.Porat
===================================
 

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#550767

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2016-02-05 22:38 +0100
Message-ID<18188435.ipTnd2qW7E@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#550629
Y.Porat wrote:

> On Monday, February 1, 2016 > --
>> Two neutrinos go through a bar ...
>> 
>> (from: WolframAlpha)

What you are quoting here is a (randomly selected) Usenet signature.  You 
are not referring to it in your follow-up, so you should not have quoted it.  
As you should not quote anything that you are *not* referring to, while you 
should quote *everything* that you *are* referring to, even if you have to 
shorten it.  Simply omitting relevant quotations as you did (and replacing 
them with irrelevant ones) is _not_ appropriate discussion style.

> =====================================
> =======================================

Please don’t.

> you are a common  parrot manipulator !!

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but evidentially you are a 
name-caller, and not a very good one at that.
 
> if V= c

That’s _v_ (lowercase letter) in the equation that I have posted (and you 
have not quoted).

> gamma becomes undefined ***even mathematically**!!

The equation in my posting that you are referring to is either the equation 
for the momentum of objects whose mass is *not zero* –

  p = m v∕√(1 − (v∕c)²); m ≠ 0(!)
                         ^^^^^^^^

– or the equation for the kinetic energy of *such* objects –

  E_k = m c²∕√(1 − (v∕c)²) − m c²; m ≠ 0(!)
                                   ^^^^^^^^
    [Why?  You subtract from the total energy that such an object has in
     relative motion the energy that it has *at relative rest*, E = m c².]

–, so *neither applies to photons* as *photons have mass zero* (m = 0) and 
(the magnitude of) their momentum is

  p = ℏ k = ℎ∕λ = ℎ f∕c

instead (where ℏ = ℎ∕2π, k = |k⃗| = 2π∕λ is the wave number, k⃗ is the wave 
vector, λ is the wavelength, and f is the wave’s frequency).  As I have said 
multiple times now (as if it would not be self-evident to all who can read), 
*the velocity v does not feature in the momentum equation for photons*, nor 
does their zero mass.  Why?  Photons *always* travel at c.

However, the energy–momentum relation from special relativity that I 
posted –

  E = √((m c²)² + (p c)²)

– is supposed to apply to *all* physical objects.  It depends only on their 
mass m and on their *object-specific* momentum p (since c is a constant).  
As a function of mass and momentum then, and with explicit multiplication 
sign, you can write it

  E(m, p) = √((m × c²)² + (p × c)²).

Photons have m = 0 and p = ℏ k = ℎ∕λ = ℎ f∕c, so they have energy

  E(0, p) = √(p × c)² = p × c = ℎ f∕c × c = ℎ f

which confirms _Einstein’s_ prior observations and reasoning about the 
photoelectric effect.

What is so difficult for you to understand about that?

> and you  jangler manipulations want help  you!!
> you cant fish in dirty water !!

Gibberish.

> 2
> in that case
> see the formula
> E=hf photon Energy
> it was found  EXPERIMENTALLY 5 YEARS BEFORE RELATIVITY !!!

Can’t you read?  Your claim is *wrong*; it was _Einstein_ who found that 
"formula" “experimentally” _in 1905_, _only three months_ before he 
published the first paper on special relativity.

Planck did find and present in 1900 to the Deutsche Physikalische 
Gesellschaft (German Society of Physics) a radiation law that featured ℎ (of 
which sources that I have not confirmed yet say that was chosen as an 
abbreviation for German „Hilfsgrösse“ [“helper quantity”]), but *nobody*, 
including Planck, was aware of ℎ’s importance for photon energy *at the 
time*.

> Planck didn t use any F

Nobody but you used “F” (capital letter).  I used “f” (lowercase letter) for 
frequency.  Planck used “ν” for frequency, which he called “oscillation 
number (per second)” in “On the Law of Distribution of Energy in the Normal 
Spectrum” (1900/1901), but E = ℎν does not feature either in that work 
(which you can’t have read, let alone understood):

<http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/annalen/history/historic-papers/1901_309_553-563.pdf>

> en relativistic entity/TOOL  to define it
> EXPERIMENTALLY ----

Gibberish.

> h has the Kilogram dimension !!!!!

Utter nonsense.  First of all, kilogram (kg) is a *unit* for the dimension 
of mass, not a dimension itself.  Second, the dimension of ℎ is energy × 
time, _not_ mass.  The possible units for ℎ include J s (joule-second) where 
1 J s = 1 N m s = 1 kg m²∕s² × s = 1 kg m²∕s.

> GOT IT ??!!!

I got that you have delusions of knowledge.

>  and
> nothing F en relativistic  there

That’s gibberish again.  Please do everyone a favor and get yourself an 
English dictionary (and some relaxation pills).  And *use it* (and take 
them) when you post (in English).

> nor anything to multiply it by zero!!

Nonsense, see above.

> Epstein was wrong by claiming that
  ^^^^^^^
Who?

> NO MASS CAN REACH c

AISB, no object whose mass is *greater than zero* (m > 0) can travel at c, 
and that follows from the form of the equations for relativistic momentum 
and kinetic energy *for such objects*.

>  MASS OF PHOTONS DOES IT !!!

The mass of photons is *zero*, so photons can and must travel at c.

Or, if you can understand that better, in your (wrong) terminology “photons 
are not masses”.

> the mass of the photon is an exception to the rule that
> no mass can reach c

You have two major misconceptions:

First, that there would be “a mass”; that mass would be the same as an 
object.  Since photons have no (non-zero) mass and are still objects, your 
idea of a moving mass, instead of an object *with a certain mass*, is wrong.

Instead, mass m is a property of an object as is its rest energy E₀, whereas 
they are related (as Einstein found) by the equation m = E₀∕c².

Second, since photons have zero mass (m = 0), the momentum equation and the 
equation for kinetic energy for objects that have non-zero mass (m > 0) 
*does not apply to photons*.

> you can see even by experimental  EVIDENCE
> that
> as MASS COMES  becomes  smaller and smaller
> IT CAN REACH -CLOSER AND CLOSER TO C !!!!

AISB twice now (only that I used, correctly, the terms “object” and “mass of 
an object” instead).  Can’t you read?

> old copyright by me 

Copyright has been duly added to the list of things that you do not yet 
understand.

This discussion has to do with relativity; there is a special newsgroup for 
that subject in the Big 8.  In Usenet, you are supposed to post to the 
newsgroup that is *the most specific one* in a hierarchy, so in this case 
*you are supposed to post to* sci.physics.*relativity*.  I had set Followup-
To (F'up2) there, which you ignored.  Please do not do that again.


F'up2 sci.physics.relativity

PointedEars
-- 
I heard that entropy isn't what it used to be.

(from: WolframAlpha)

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#550892

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-06 06:34 -0800
Message-ID<9ad95574-0857-4741-bc76-afd04e31c8e0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550767
On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha)

===========================
i will do it again for you 
i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
so 

E photon  Energy  is 
E = h f 
right??

do you know the dimensions of h  
if not i will do it for you
 h has the dimensions 

 ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second

Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
all together is  an equation of energy right ??

if you note it by  something  else than mass 
-it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass
or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 

right ?
now Please tell  us 
WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE
BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-)

so where do you see  there anything 
to multiply that formula including  the mass dimension there 
by anything relativistic ????
or zero ???
   old copyright by 
TIA
 Eng Y.Porat
====================================
  
 
 

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#550899

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-06 08:01 -0800
Message-ID<aa2da83a-7ea9-4f3f-a6b9-92f7636cec57@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550892
9:34 AMY.Porat
On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha) 

=========================== 
i will do it again for you 
i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
so 

E photon  Energy  is 
E = h f 
right?? 

do you know the dimensions of h   
if not i will do it for you 
 h has the dimensions 

 ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second 

Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
all together is  an equation of energy right ?? 

if you note it by  something  else than mass 
-it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass 
or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 

right ? 
now Please tell  us 
WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE 
BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-) 
----------

Why you mad MapleLoops?

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#550905

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-06 08:42 -0800
Message-ID<11997ee2-d8b7-44d3-baf2-d68c80018caf@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550899
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-5, HVAC wrote:
> 9:34 AMY.Porat
> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha) 
> 
> =========================== 
> i will do it again for you 
> i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
> you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
> so 
> 
> E photon  Energy  is 
> E = h f 
> right?? 
> 
> do you know the dimensions of h   
> if not i will do it for you 
>  h has the dimensions 
> 
>  ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second 

Dimensions are for losers, come to the Canonical Measures. First left at Hairdo. 
 
> Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
> all together is  an equation of energy right ?? 
> 
> if you note it by  something  else than mass 
> -it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass 
> or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 
> 
> right ? 
> now Please tell  us 
> WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE 
> BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-) 
> ----------
> 
> Why you mad MapleLoops?

Yehiel Porat is now MapleLoops too?! HVAC, rent a conscious.

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: I like Porat, though Yehiel should spellcheck before posting.”

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#550933

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-06 10:11 -0800
Message-ID<5fa6377c-1714-40c7-bbd2-41cf6080e11b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550905
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC+2, Mahipal wrote:
> On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-5, HVAC wrote:
> > 9:34 AMY.Porat
> > On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha) 
> > 
> > =========================== 
> > i will do it again for you 
> > i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
> > you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
> > so 
> > 
> > E photon  Energy  is 
> > E = h f 
> > right?? 
> > 
> > do you know the dimensions of h   
> > if not i will do it for you 
> >  h has the dimensions 
> > 
> >  ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second 
> 
> Dimensions are for losers, come to the Canonical Measures. First left at Hairdo.
==========================]
imbecile pig 
canonical or shamanonical 
if a formula is good for one dimension system 
it is goo for all systems !!
how is the pig that thought you physics !
may be Josef ??...
go  better f your mother
==================
next to human decent beings
not to criminals against mankind 
------- 
Y.Porat
======================  
>  
> > Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
> > all together is  an equation of energy right ?? 
> > 
> > if you note it by  something  else than mass 
> > -it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass 
> > or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 
> > 
> > right ? 
> > now Please tell  us 
> > WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE 
> > BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-) 
> > ----------
> > 
> > Why you mad MapleLoops?
> 
> Yehiel Porat is now MapleLoops too?! HVAC, rent a conscious.
> 
> -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: I like Porat, though Yehiel should spellcheck before posting.”

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#550935

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-06 10:22 -0800
Message-ID<936c321e-3ef3-4696-b7f1-b335f1de1006@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550933
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 1:11:59 PM UTC-5, Y.Porat wrote:
> On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC+2, Mahipal wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-5, HVAC wrote:
> > > 9:34 AMY.Porat
> > > On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha) 
> > > 
> > > =========================== 
> > > i will do it again for you 
> > > i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
> > > you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
> > > so 
> > > 
> > > E photon  Energy  is 
> > > E = h f 
> > > right?? 
> > > 
> > > do you know the dimensions of h   
> > > if not i will do it for you 
> > >  h has the dimensions 
> > > 
> > >  ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second 
> > 
> > Dimensions are for losers, come to the Canonical Measures. First left at Hairdo.
> ==========================]
> imbecile pig 
> canonical or shamanonical 
> if a formula is good for one dimension system 
> it is goo for all systems !!
> how is the pig that thought you physics !
> may be Josef ??...
> go  better f your mother
> ==================
> next to human decent beings
> not to criminals against mankind 
> ------- 
> Y.Porat
> ======================  

Why so rude Yeheil? Get focused.
Not everybody is a non human here.
Ftr, I am no criminal against mankind, just womankind! Duh?!
Your response makes me ponder whether you Y.Porat are human?

> >  
> > > Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
> > > all together is  an equation of energy right ?? 
> > > 
> > > if you note it by  something  else than mass 
> > > -it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass 
> > > or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 
> > > 
> > > right ? 
> > > now Please tell  us 
> > > WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE 
> > > BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-) 
> > > ----------
> > > 
> > > Why you mad MapleLoops?
> > 
> > Yehiel Porat is now MapleLoops too?! HVAC, rent a conscious.
> > 
> > -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: I like Porat, though Yehiel should spellcheck before posting.”

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: Read My Lips, They Are Not Moving Mass.”

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#551314

From"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-08 10:39 -0800
Message-ID<19aac621-b1d7-4a16-91ef-2e4f801fa3b3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#550905
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC+2, Mahipal wrote:
> On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-5, HVAC wrote:
> > 9:34 AMY.Porat
> > On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:3 > (from: WolframAlpha) 
> > 
> > =========================== 
> > i will do it again for you 
> > i snipped the other text because it is only obfuscation the main  point i bring here 
> > you see while you see the forest you don t see the trees there 
> > so 
> > 
> > E photon  Energy  is 
> > E = h f 
> > right?? 
> > 
> > do you know the dimensions of h   
> > if not i will do it for you 
> >  h has the dimensions 
> > 
> >  ~6.6 expo -24 times   Kilogram Meter^2/second 
> 
> Dimensions are for losers, come to the Canonical Measures. First left at Hairdo. 
>  
> > Kilogram is here the dimension of mass  MASS (MASS) !!!! it and  cant be something else 
> > all together is  an equation of energy right ?? 
> > 
> > if you note it by  something  else than mass 
> > -it want help you -it will always be NOTATION OF   mass 
> > or else the equation is not a physical quotation  dimension  of energy 
> > 
> > right ? 
> > now Please tell  us 
> > WHERE (THE 'HECK'  JUST A FINE CURSE 
> > BECAUSE I AM ANGRY ()....)(:-) 
> > ----------
> > 
> > Why you mad MapleLoops?
> 
> Yehiel Porat is now MapleLoops too?! HVAC, rent a conscious.
> 
> -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: I like Porat, though Yehiel should spellcheck before posting.”
===========================
=sorry Mahipal 
but while you  that dimensions are  for loosers
you are driving me mad !!
because you have no idea how wrong and harmful is
what you day 
dimension analysis is one of the most simple and POWERFUL TOOLS  WE HAVE
NOT ONLY IN PHYSICS 
BUT IN ENGINEERING AND OTHERS


so if you make an anysis of the formula
E=hf
and you dont see the mass there
the only mass 
you  are harmful for advance in physics
and that is for me means
being destructive   !!
i dint notice at that moment that
in past we had rather some common understandings 
so let me apologize my rudeness 
w
actually i am aggressive here  since there is here 
a lot of shameless piggish irresponsible behavior 

ATB
Y.Porat
===================================

TIA
Y.Porat
===================== 

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