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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #422004 > unrolled thread

Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error.

Started by"HGW..." <hgw@....>
First post2017-06-09 10:02 +1000
Last post2017-06-12 11:35 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 276 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 10:02 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:02 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-07 16:54 -0700
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 10:03 +1000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 02:14 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 09:44 +0000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:14 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:16 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 12:38 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 21:09 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 17:09 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-08 19:15 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 12:36 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:56 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Jim Limey <eeug@dnne.ri> - 2017-06-09 15:32 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:19 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Kitubu Nkyaku <akntuu@buwkau.kk> - 2017-06-10 10:46 +0000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 10:38 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Bilového Hlumu <zbuuz@nwtwzwz.lb> - 2017-06-10 18:18 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Rhett Doucet <ttdh@etoe.ee> - 2017-06-19 13:42 +0000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-08 21:28 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 17:06 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-09 06:25 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-09 06:34 -0700
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:20 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:43 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 08:58 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-09 16:05 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:17 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-09 17:15 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:41 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:44 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:45 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:44 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-10 08:05 -0700
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 05:56 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-10 16:18 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:45 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 05:26 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 00:44 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. chanrasjid@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 01:58 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-23 09:02 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. chanrasjid@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 07:46 -0700
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 09:27 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-25 01:21 +0000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:43 -0500
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:08 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-11 00:49 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-09 14:37 +0000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-09 08:12 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 09:03 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-10 06:26 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:30 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-10 16:31 +0000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:09 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-11 01:11 +0000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-11 14:18 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 15:57 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 01:45 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 00:22 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:37 +1000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 03:39 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:22 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 15:38 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:45 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:00 +1000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:28 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 22:56 -0500
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-11 14:27 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 11:38 +0000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-11 04:42 -0700
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:01 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 16:34 +0200
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 12:57 -0700
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 13:03 -0700
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 22:41 +0200
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 22:40 +0200
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 15:30 -0700
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 01:38 +0200
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 10:55 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 10:45 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:24 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 11:01 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 03:58 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 04:50 +1000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:55 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:20 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:48 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-13 11:04 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 16:00 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 15:12 -0500
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 16:08 -0500
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-13 21:16 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-15 17:57 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-15 16:05 +0000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 21:38 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 19:14 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 02:34 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 02:45 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 23:18 -0500
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 17:44 +0000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-16 21:06 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-20 15:26 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-23 09:41 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 21:54 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 22:46 -0500
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-12 09:28 -0500
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-12 09:28 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 04:04 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-06-12 11:39 -0700
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:44 +0000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:51 -0500
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:26 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 19:51 +0000
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-13 10:55 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 15:49 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-14 13:12 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 04:47 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 11:32 -0500
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 06:09 +1000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 02:05 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 02:24 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 19:41 -0700
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 20:17 +1000
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 13:14 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 15:13 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-14 13:14 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 04:52 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-14 15:44 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 07:37 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:21 -0700
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 15:32 -0700
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-15 09:16 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-15 16:12 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-16 15:30 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 00:33 -0500
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:36 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-06-09 08:28 +0200
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 07:51 -0500
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 09:14 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 00:50 -0500
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 17:23 +1000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:58 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Kitubu Nkyaku <akntuu@buwkau.kk> - 2017-06-10 11:06 +0000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:18 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:49 -0500
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-10 21:13 +0200
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 13:01 -0700
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:58 +1000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-11 21:53 +0200
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 14:39 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:22 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:32 +1000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 18:53 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:28 +1000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-12 21:51 +0200
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-14 21:57 +1000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-14 22:30 +0200
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 07:31 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 16:19 -0700
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-15 10:39 +1000
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 18:01 -0700
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 18:54 -0700
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-15 00:04 -0500
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 20:07 +1000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-15 15:14 +0200
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-16 04:16 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-16 09:59 +0200
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-17 08:40 +1000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:44 -0500
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-18 14:30 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-22 14:02 +0200
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 06:21 -0700
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-27 19:43 +0200
                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-28 09:03 +1000
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-28 03:47 +0000
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-28 15:54 +0200
                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-29 09:43 +1000
                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-29 12:29 +0200
                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-01 09:47 +1000
                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-01 21:10 +0200
                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-02 11:58 +1000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-02 03:33 +0000
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Buck Millard <uiidbm@apsuw.dl> - 2017-07-02 10:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-02 14:31 +0200
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-03 11:34 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-03 20:59 +0200
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-04 09:39 +1000
                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-04 15:10 +0200
                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 09:28 +1000
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 00:04 +0000
                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 12:22 +1000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-04 20:45 -0700
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 03:57 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:37 -0500
                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 10:27 +1000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 00:44 +0000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 03:03 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:38 -0500
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 02:59 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-07-04 04:08 +1000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-03 22:11 +0200
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-04 08:32 +1000
                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-04 14:40 +0200
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 09:36 +1000
                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-05 23:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 10:39 +1000
                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-06 09:47 +0200
                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 20:09 +1000
                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 14:06 +0000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-06 22:20 +0200
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-07 09:55 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-07 16:16 +0200
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-08 09:28 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-07 15:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-08 09:37 +1000
                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-08 07:35 +0000
                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 10:01 +1000
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 02:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 09:34 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 14:08 +0000
                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 14:17 +0000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 16:53 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 17:23 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 17:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Vern Garriott <verg@entweoe.te> - 2017-07-09 19:44 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-10 02:24 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-11 10:44 +1000
                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-07-10 20:09 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-11 19:25 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Laverne Chandler <unvnh@ednawe.ee> - 2017-07-13 13:24 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-11 14:11 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-11 14:39 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-12 08:16 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-12 03:17 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-11 23:43 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-15 11:04 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-16 03:45 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-16 13:55 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-17 08:42 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-17 14:49 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 08:56 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-18 05:08 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 09:33 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 20:18 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 10:25 +1000
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-17 08:40 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-17 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 08:58 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-17 09:53 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 09:01 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 16:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-18 15:18 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 21:14 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 09:45 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-19 15:05 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-20 08:51 +1000
                                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-20 22:22 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-21 14:30 +1000
                                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-21 15:04 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-22 08:53 +1000
                                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-22 14:47 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-23 16:51 +1000
                                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-23 14:46 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-24 12:04 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Vern Garriott <verg@entweoe.te> - 2017-07-12 17:04 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:57 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 17:56 +0200
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-15 16:01 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-17 08:46 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:41 -0500
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Nými Icelulózy <ejienm@wzsfwe.ul> - 2017-06-15 21:59 +0000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:14 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. khrapko_ri@hotmail.com - 2017-06-11 05:24 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:35 +1000

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#423971

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-07-05 02:59 +0000
Message-ID<ojhkmm$eps$7@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#423960
"HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:

>>> My corrected predictions are
>>> 4.89
>>> 2.04
>>> 0.839
>> 
>> Quite.
>> And the measured deflections are:
>>   45 degrees        9.7896 mas
>>   90 degrees        4.0550 mas
>> 135 degrees        1.6796 mas
>> 
>> Newton falsified!

>Newton will never be falsified by fake experiments.

But Newton gets falsified by real experiments all the time, Ralph!

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#423879

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-07-04 04:08 +1000
Message-ID<oje16p$19hq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422697
On 16/06/17 17:59, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 15.06.2017 20.16, skrev HGW, DSc.:

>
> gamma is the PPN parameter with the following meaning:
> If you set gamma = 0, the equation is the Newtonian prediction,
> if you set gamma = 1, the equation is the GR prediction.
>
> Hipparcos has measured the positions of thousands of stars with
> extreme precision. There are many millions of measurements made
> by Hipparcos, and among these measurements it is possible to find
> how the light from a high number of stars are deflected by the Sun.
>
> These measured deflections can then be compared to the equation
> above and gamma can be determined.
>
> The result is that gamma = 0.997 ± 0.003
>
> This means that the measured angles are very close to
> the prediction of GR, and twice the Newtonian prediction.
>
> These measurements are not "on the limits of accuracy",
> quite the contrary.
> The difference between the angle predicted by Newton and
> the measured angle is a factor of 2, the former is
> 300 times the error bar too small.

Paul, the telescope alignment was based on an assumption that GR was 
correct.
Quote from Wiki: "Corrections due to special relativity (stellar 
aberration) made use of the corresponding satellite velocity. 
Modifications due to general relativistic light bending were significant 
(4 milliarc-sec at 90° to the ecliptic) and corrected for 
deterministically assuming γ=1 in the PPN formalism. Residuals were 
examined to establish limits on any deviations from this general 
relativistic value, and no significant discrepancies were found."

Of course no 'discrepancies' would be found! Gamma was ASSUMED TO BE 1!!!

What a joke!

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#423888

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-03 22:11 +0200
Message-ID<oje8du$57m$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#423879
Den 03.07.2017 20.08, skrev HGW, DSc.:
> On 16/06/17 17:59, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> Den 15.06.2017 20.16, skrev HGW, DSc.:
> 
>>
>> gamma is the PPN parameter with the following meaning:
>> If you set gamma = 0, the equation is the Newtonian prediction,
>> if you set gamma = 1, the equation is the GR prediction.
>>
>> Hipparcos has measured the positions of thousands of stars with
>> extreme precision. There are many millions of measurements made
>> by Hipparcos, and among these measurements it is possible to find
>> how the light from a high number of stars are deflected by the Sun.
>>
>> These measured deflections can then be compared to the equation
>> above and gamma can be determined.
>>
>> The result is that gamma = 0.997 ± 0.003
>>
>> This means that the measured angles are very close to
>> the prediction of GR, and twice the Newtonian prediction.
>>
>> These measurements are not "on the limits of accuracy",
>> quite the contrary.
>> The difference between the angle predicted by Newton and
>> the measured angle is a factor of 2, the former is
>> 300 times the error bar too small.
> 
> Paul, the telescope alignment was based on an assumption that GR was 
> correct.
> Quote from Wiki: "Corrections due to special relativity (stellar 
> aberration) made use of the corresponding satellite velocity. 
> Modifications due to general relativistic light bending were significant 
> (4 milliarc-sec at 90° to the ecliptic) and corrected for 
> deterministically assuming γ=1 in the PPN formalism. Residuals were 
> examined to establish limits on any deviations from this general 
> relativistic value, and no significant discrepancies were found."
> 
> Of course no 'discrepancies' would be found! Gamma was ASSUMED TO BE 1!!!
> 
> What a joke!
> 


Ralph, you are babbling.
When you do measurements to compare them with predictions,
you obviously don't correct the measured data with
the predictions before comparing them.
How is it possible to fail to understand that?

The Hipparcos mission measured the apparent position of
the stars at different times of the year when the Sun
was in different positions relative to the stars.

It is true that the fact that the apparent position
of the star is affected by both parallax and gravitational
deflection, is a complication.
(And stellar aberration, but this is so well known
  that it is easy to compensate for.)

You must somehow determine how much the change in
apparent position is caused by parallax and how
much is caused by gravitational deflection.
This can be done because:
  Gravitational deflection affects all stars in
  the same position relative to the Sun equally.
while:
  parallax depend on the distance to the star,
  and will affect stars in the same position relative
  to the Sun differently.
and:
  The direction of the apparent movement will be
  different for parallax and gravitational bending.

However, the correlation between parallax and
gravitational bending will affect the precision
of the determination of gamma.

https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
I have quoted this before:
  <<
   Assuming that the deflection for all stars is of
   the form: 4 X (1+gamma)/2 mas  gamma could be known
   to better than 0.001. Unfortunately, the correlation
   between the global parallax zero point and gamma is
   very large (-0.92) and increases the expected formal
   error of by an estimated factor of about 2.5, so that
   it becomes 0.003.
  >>

The fact that it is correlation between parallax and
gravitational bending does reduce the precision of
gamma from 0.001 to 0.003. But it is still very good.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#423899

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-04 08:32 +1000
Message-ID<ojegll$1g7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423888
On 04/07/17 06:11, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 03.07.2017 20.08, skrev HGW, DSc.:
>> On 16/06/17 17:59, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>> Den 15.06.2017 20.16, skrev HGW, DSc.:
>>
>>>
>>> gamma is the PPN parameter with the following meaning:
>>> If you set gamma = 0, the equation is the Newtonian prediction,
>>> if you set gamma = 1, the equation is the GR prediction.
>>>
>>> Hipparcos has measured the positions of thousands of stars with
>>> extreme precision. There are many millions of measurements made
>>> by Hipparcos, and among these measurements it is possible to find
>>> how the light from a high number of stars are deflected by the Sun.
>>>
>>> These measured deflections can then be compared to the equation
>>> above and gamma can be determined.
>>>
>>> The result is that gamma = 0.997 ± 0.003
>>>
>>> This means that the measured angles are very close to
>>> the prediction of GR, and twice the Newtonian prediction.
>>>
>>> These measurements are not "on the limits of accuracy",
>>> quite the contrary.
>>> The difference between the angle predicted by Newton and
>>> the measured angle is a factor of 2, the former is
>>> 300 times the error bar too small.
>>
>> Paul, the telescope alignment was based on an assumption that GR was 
>> correct.
>> Quote from Wiki: "Corrections due to special relativity (stellar 
>> aberration) made use of the corresponding satellite velocity. 
>> Modifications due to general relativistic light bending were 
>> significant (4 milliarc-sec at 90° to the ecliptic) and corrected for 
>> deterministically assuming γ=1 in the PPN formalism. Residuals were 
>> examined to establish limits on any deviations from this general 
>> relativistic value, and no significant discrepancies were found."
>>
>> Of course no 'discrepancies' would be found! Gamma was ASSUMED TO BE 1!!!
>>
>> What a joke!
>>
> 
> 
> Henry, you are babbling.
> When you do measurements to compare them with predictions,
> you obviously don't correct the measured data with
> the predictions before comparing them.
> How is it possible to fail to understand that?

Paul, you and fellow dingleberries are too stupid to see that you 
continuously rely on circular methodology.
The orientation of the telescope is achieved by aligning it with an 
image of a distant reference star. Its orientation (relative to what I 
gather is some kind of defined inertial radio frame) is continually 
corrected for the presumed bending predicted by GR (or its reading are).
Consequently, if you then measure the bending of light from a star, say, 
near the reference star, naturally you will get the answer that agrees 
with the GR prediction.      :)

It is hard to believe you people can be so blatantly fraudulent in your 
attempts to keep Einstein on his pedestal.

> 
> The Hipparcos mission measured the apparent position of
> the stars at different times of the year when the Sun
> was in different positions relative to the stars.
> 
> It is true that the fact that the apparent positionnormall
> of the star is affected by both parallax and gravitational
> deflection, is a complication.
> (And stellar aberration, but this is so well known
>   that it is easy to compensate for.)

Not so easy for every star.
There is also daily abberation...and a few other types.

> You must somehow determine how much the change in
> apparent position is caused by parallax and how
> much is caused by gravitational deflection.
> This can be done because:
>   Gravitational deflection affects all stars in
>   the same position relative to the Sun equally.
> while:
>   parallax depend on the distance to the star,
>   and will affect stars in the same position relativenormall
>   to the Sun differently.
> and:
>   The direction of the apparent movement will be
>   different for parallax and gravitational bending.

Only on one side.

> However, the correlation between parallax and
> gravitational bending will affect the precision
> of the determination of gamma.

...and you reckon they checked this for every one of he stars they sampled?

> 
> https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
> I have quoted this before:
>   <<
>    Assuming that the deflection for all stars is of
>    the form: 4 X (1+gamma)/2 mas  gamma could be known
>    to better than 0.001. Unfortunately, the correlation
>    between the global parallax zero point and gamma is
>    very large (-0.92) and increases the expected formal
>    error of by an estimated factor of about 2.5, so that
>    it becomes 0.003.

Parallax is considerably greater than the deflection angle and varies in 
a number of different timing cycles. The whole experiment is a joke. It 
had no chance of producing anything other than gamma = 1.

>   >>
> 
> The fact that it is correlation between parallax and
> gravitational bending does reduce the precision of
> gamma from 0.001 to 0.003. But it is still very good.

Paul, any experiment that presumes anywhere in its theory that the 
answer it eventually produces is correct, is not worth the paper it is 
written on.
All readings made by the Hipparcos telescope have already been corrected 
for the  predicted GR bending, WHICH WAS ASSUMED TO BE CORRECT. 
Naturally, the statistical average will turn out to support GR.


-- 

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#423924

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-04 14:40 +0200
Message-ID<ojg2ct$26q$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#423899
Den 04.07.2017 00.32, skrev HGW...:

Here is how Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge thinks the Hipparcos satellite
measured and tracked the apparent position of 118000 stars during
3 years:

> Paul, you and fellow dingleberries are too stupid to see that you 
> continuously rely on circular methodology.
> The orientation of the telescope is achieved by aligning it with an 
> image of a distant reference star. Its orientation (relative to what I 
> gather is some kind of defined inertial radio frame) is continually 
> corrected for the presumed bending predicted by GR (or its reading are).
> Consequently, if you then measure the bending of light from a star, say, 
> near the reference star, naturally you will get the answer that agrees 
> with the GR prediction.      :)

What a beautiful demonstration of your utter ignorance! :-D

> It is hard to believe you people can be so blatantly fraudulent in your 
> attempts to keep Einstein on his pedestal.

Ralph, a lot of information about the Hipparcos mission
can be found on the net. But you will not look it up,
because it is much easier to utter naive stupidities
about how you think it is done.

(I know we discussed Hipparcos years ago, but since you
  are immune to knowledge, you are still clueless.)

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#423961

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-05 09:36 +1000
Message-ID<ojh8q9$31p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423924
On 04/07/17 22:40, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 04.07.2017 00.32, skrev HGW...:
> 
> Here is how Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge thinks the Hipparcos satellite
> measured and tracked the apparent position of 118000 stars during
> 3 years:
> 
>> Paul, you and fellow dingleberries are too stupid to see that you 
>> continuously rely on circular methodology.
>> The orientation of the telescope is achieved by aligning it with an 
>> image of a distant reference star. Its orientation (relative to what I 
>> gather is some kind of defined inertial radio frame) is continually 
>> corrected for the presumed bending predicted by GR (or its readings are).
>> Consequently, if you then measure the bending of light from a star, 
>> say, near the reference star, naturally you will get the answer that 
>> agrees with the GR prediction.      :)
> 
> What a beautiful demonstration of your utter ignorance! :-D
> 
>> It is hard to believe you people can be so blatantly fraudulent in 
>> your attempts to keep Einstein on his pedestal.
> 
> Henry, a lot of information about the Hipparcos mission
> can be found on the net. But you will not look it up,
> because it is much easier to utter naive stupidities
> about how you think it is done.

Paul, you cannot run away. I GAVE you an exact quote from a net article 
a couple of days ago. It explained how the Hipparcos orientation 
included a correction for the GR bending of light from its reference 
star(s)
Don't you want to believe it? That's understandable...It makes a mockery 
of your experiment because it assumes GR is correct even before it does 
anything.

> (I know we discussed Hipparcos years ago, but since you
>   are immune to knowledge, you are still clueless.)

paul, you cannot wriggle out forever.



-- 

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#424063

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-05 23:10 +0200
Message-ID<ojjkkf$mg5$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#423961
Den 05.07.2017 01.36, skrev HGW...:
> 
> Paul, you cannot run away. I GAVE you an exact quote from a net article 
> a couple of days ago. 

| Den 03.07.2017 20.08, skrev HGW, DSc.:
|> Paul, the telescope alignment was based on an assumption
|> that GR was correct.
|> quote from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipparcos
|> "Corrections due to special relativity (stellar aberration)
|>  made use of the corresponding satellite velocity.
|>  Modifications due to general relativistic light bending were
|>  significant (4 milliarc-sec at 90° to the ecliptic) and corrected
|>  for deterministically assuming γ=1 in the PPN formalism.
|>  Residuals were examined to establish limits on any deviations
|>  from this general relativistic value, and no significant
|>  discrepancies were found."

The point with the Hipparcos mission was to measure the parallax
of stars. When measuring the parallax of stars, the apparent
positions must obviously be corrected for aberration and
gravitational bending.

|>
|> Of course no 'discrepancies' would be found! Gamma was ASSUMED TO BE 1!!!
|>
|> What a joke!

Reading is hard, isn't it? :-D
It is remarkable that you can read an article about Hipparcos,
and understand absolute nothing of what it says.
(It's not a very good article, though, and the section you
  quoted from is particularly bad.)

What do you think this statement means, Ralph?
"Residuals were examined to establish limits on any deviations
  from this general relativistic value, and no significant
  discrepancies were found."

The Hipparcos satellite measured and tracked the apparent position
(as seen from the satellite) of 118000 stars during 3 years.
That means that it had a lot of measurements of each star at
different times of the year. To find the parallax, the measurements
must be corrected. If the corrections are wrong, the data will be
inconsistent, you will get different values for the parallax of
each star. You will get discrepancies.

The statement above says that with gamma = 1, no significant
discrepancies were found, so the GR correction must be correct.

> It explained how the Hipparcos orientation 
> included a correction for the GR bending of light from its reference 
> star(s)

This demonstrates that you have no clue about how Hipparcos worked.
And it is even worse than that! It demonstrates that you believe
Hipparcos worked in a way which any sane person must understand
is impossible!
It is incredible stupid to believe that the corrections somehow
could be done to the orientation of the satellite before each
of the many measurements of each of the 118000 stars!

If you read the section: "Satellite and payload"
of the article you quoted from, you can get an idea
of how the Hipparcos worked. The description is not
very good, though, so if you really are interested,
I am sure you can find better description.

But of course, Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge is not interested
in learning anything.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#424075

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-06 10:39 +1000
Message-ID<ojk0rs$88m$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424063
On 06/07/17 07:10, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 05.07.2017 01.36, skrev HGW...:
>>
>> Paul, you cannot run away. I GAVE you an exact quote from a net 
>> article a couple of days ago. 
> 
> | Den 03.07.2017 20.08, skrev HGW, DSc.:
> |> Paul, the telescope alignment was based on an assumption
> |> that GR was correct.
> |> quote from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipparcos
> |> "Corrections due to special relativity (stellar aberration)
> |>  made use of the corresponding satellite velocity.
> |>  Modifications due to general relativistic light bending were
> |>  significant (4 milliarc-sec at 90° to the ecliptic) and corrected
> |>  for deterministically assuming γ=1 in the PPN formalism.
> |>  Residuals were examined to establish limits on any deviations
> |>  from this general relativistic value, and no significant
> |>  discrepancies were found."
> 
> The point with the Hipparcos mission was to measure the parallax
> of stars. When measuring the parallax of stars, the apparent
> positions must obviously be corrected for aberration and
> gravitational bending.
> 
> |>
> |> Of course no 'discrepancies' would be found! Gamma was ASSUMED TO BE 
> 1!!!
> |>
> |> What a joke!
> 
> Reading is hard, isn't it? :-D
> It is remarkable that you can read an article about Hipparcos,
> and understand absolute nothing of what it says.
> (It's not a very good article, though, and the section you
>   quoted from is particularly bad.)

HAHAHHHAHHAHHAHHAHA! It is only 'bad' because it reveals how 
dingleberries will cheat and fake experiments to make their hero seem 
like a genius.

> What do you think this statement means, Ralph?
> "Residuals were examined to establish limits on any deviations
>   from this general relativistic value, and no significant
>   discrepancies were found."

That is what was in the paper you referred to. Of course they found 
gamma = 1. The bloody telescope was out by that much.

> The Hipparcos satellite measured and tracked the apparent position
> (as seen from the satellite) of 118000 stars during 3 years.
> That means that it had a lot of measurements of each star at
> different times of the year. To find the parallax, the measurements
> must be corrected. If the corrections are wrong, the data will be
> inconsistent, you will get different values for the parallax of
> each star. You will get discrepancies.

No Paul, think about it. The telescope is aligned with a  particular 
distant star. If the light from that star is assumed to be bent by the 
GR predicted amount, then quite obviously the light from all the stars 
in its vicinity will be measured to have been bent by that amount.

IF the assumption was that it was bent by 25 degrees, so would that from 
all the other stars. HAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHHA! Can you now see the joke?

> The statement above says that with gamma = 1, no significant
> discrepancies were found, so the GR correction must be correct.

Naturally that is the answer they got. The GR prediction was assumed in 
the experiment's theory.

>> It explained how the Hipparcos orientation included a correction for 
>> the GR bending of light from its reference star(s)
> 
> This demonstrates that you have no clue about how Hipparcos worked.
> And it is even worse than that! It demonstrates that you believe
> Hipparcos worked in a way which any sane person must understand
> is impossible!
> It is incredible stupid to believe that the corrections somehow
> could be done to the orientation of the satellite before each
> of the many measurements of each of the 118000 stars!

You cannot escape Paul. The experiment was an innocent fake. I', sure 
the idiots who did it didn't realize how stupid they were.

> If you read the section: "Satellite and payload"
> of the article you quoted from, you can get an idea
> of how the Hipparcos worked. The description is not
> very good, though, so if you really are interested,
> I am sure you can find better description.

No escape Paul...

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#424086

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-06 09:47 +0200
Message-ID<ojkpvf$ccj$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#424075
Den 06.07.2017 02.39, skrev HGW...:
>
> No Paul, think about it. The telescope is aligned with a  particular 
> distant star. If the light from that star is assumed to be bent by the 
> GR predicted amount, then quite obviously the light from all the stars 
> in its vicinity will be measured to have been bent by that amount.
> 
> IF the assumption was that it was bent by 25 degrees, so would that from 
> all the other stars. HAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHHA! Can you now see the joke?

Thanks for confirming the words in my previous posting:

> On 06/07/17 07:10, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> This demonstrates that you have no clue about how Hipparcos worked.
>> And it is even worse than that! It demonstrates that you believe
>> Hipparcos worked in a way which any sane person must understand
>> is impossible!
>> It is incredible stupid to believe that the corrections somehow
>> could be done to the orientation of the satellite before each
>> of the many measurements of each of the 118000 stars!
> 
> You cannot escape Paul. The experiment was an innocent fake. I', sure 
> the idiots who did it didn't realize how stupid they were.

Slightly funny, but veeery pathetic!

>> If you read the section: "Satellite and payload"
>> of the article you quoted from, you can get an idea
>> of how the Hipparcos worked. The description is not
>> very good, though, so if you really are interested,
>> I am sure you can find better description.
> 
> No escape Paul...

Thanks for confirming the words in my previous posting:

>> But of course, Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge is not interested
>> in learning anything. 

Ignorance of own ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

'nuff now!

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#424092

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-06 20:09 +1000
Message-ID<ojl28j$1k2a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424086
On 06/07/17 17:47, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 06.07.2017 02.39, skrev HGW...:
>
> 
>> On 06/07/17 07:10, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>> This demonstrates that you have no clue about how Hipparcos worked.
>>> And it is even worse than that! It demonstrates that you believe
>>> Hipparcos worked in a way which any sane person must understand
>>> is impossible!
>>> It is incredible stupid to believe that the corrections somehow
>>> could be done to the orientation of the satellite before each
>>> of the many measurements of each of the 118000 stars!
>>
>> You cannot escape Paul. The experiment was an innocent fake. I', sure 
>> the idiots who did it didn't realize how stupid they were.
> 
> Slightly funny, but veeery pathetic!
> 
>>> If you read the section: "Satellite and payload"
>>> of the article you quoted from, you can get an idea
>>> of how the Hipparcos worked. The description is not
>>> very good, though, so if you really are interested,
>>> I am sure you can find better description.
>>
>> No escape Paul...
> 
> Thanks for confirming the words in my previous posting:
> 
>>> But of course, Henry George Wilson is not interested
>>> in learning anything. 
> 
> Ignorance of own ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

Paul, here is a picture of two adjacent stars. One, *', is used by 
Hipparcos for alignment.

*'				=== Hipparcos
*

Hipparcos ASSUMES the light from * is bent according to the GR formula.

The separation between the two stars does not alter. So what bending do 
you think Hipparcos would find for star *'

I think you should contact the authors of the paper and tell them that 
Henry Wilson is still laughing at their stupidity.

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#424106

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-07-06 14:06 +0000
Message-ID<ojlg5i$4ui$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#424092
"HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:

>On 06/07/17 17:47, Paul B. Andersen wrote:

>> Ignorance of own ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

Pay attention, Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge, he's talking about YOU!

>Paul, here is a picture of two adjacent stars. One, *', is used by 
>Hipparcos for alignment.

>*'				=== Hipparcos
>*

>Hipparcos ASSUMES the light from * is bent according to the GR formula.

>The separation between the two stars does not alter. So what bending do 
>you think Hipparcos would find for star *'

Ralph, Hipparcos measures light from stars that are WIDELY SEPARATED from
each other.  Using your example, the reference star could be away from
the sun while the second is closer to the sun, and then later the
reference star is closer to the sun while the second is further away!
It is easy to find the differences in bending from that data!

>I think you should contact the authors of the paper and tell them that 
>Henry Wilson is still laughing at their stupidity.

Ralph, the laughter you hear is from people who actually know physics.
And they are not laughing with you, they are laughing at you!

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#424136

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-06 22:20 +0200
Message-ID<ojm61o$3ha$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#424106
Den 06.07.2017 16.06, skrev Michael Moroney:
> "HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:
>> Paul, here is a picture of two adjacent stars. One, *', is used by
>> Hipparcos for alignment.
> 
>> *'				=== Hipparcos
>> *
> 
>> Hipparcos ASSUMES the light from * is bent according to the GR formula.
> 
>> The separation between the two stars does not alter. So what bending do
>> you think Hipparcos would find for star *'
> 
> Ralph, Hipparcos measures light from stars that are WIDELY SEPARATED from
> each other.  Using your example, the reference star could be away from
> the sun while the second is closer to the sun, and then later the
> reference star is closer to the sun while the second is further away!
> It is easy to find the differences in bending from that data!

There is no particular reference star.
The basic principle is like this: The Hipparcos telescope
projects the images of two 0.9 x 0.9 degrees fields separated
by 58 degrees onto a common focal surface. At any time, there
will be 4-5 stars in each field. Between these 16-25 pairs of
stars the exact angular distance can be measured. (The measuring
method is very ingenious, see reference below.) The satellite
is rotating with one rotation during 2 hours, which means that
each star will use ca. 20 seconds to pass through the 0.9 degrees
field. During one rotation, a 0.9 degree great circle strip with
ca. 2000 stars will be scanned. The angular distance between
all these stars (as seen from the satellite) will now be known
in one dimension - along the great circle.
The spin axis will be slowly rotated, so that different, but
partly overlapping great circle strips are scanned every 2 hours.
The data from several great circle strips can be combined to
give a 2 dimensional map of their position (as seen from the
satellite). During the 3+ years, the whole sky was scanned several
times, which means that the position of each of the 118210 stars
were measured several times with the Sun in different positions.

The Hipparcos satellite was in an eccentric 10 hour orbit.
(Which is a far cry from the geostationary orbit it was
  supposed to have, but even if the launch was partly
  a failure, the mission was very successful anyway.)

The raw data sent down to Earth as the measurements were
done were not corrected in any way.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Hipparcos_overview
https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/payload
https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/data-reductions

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#424147

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-07 09:55 +1000
Message-ID<ojmim7$7o9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424136
On 07/07/17 06:20, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 06.07.2017 16.06, skrev Michael Moroney:
>> "HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:
>>> Paul, here is a picture of two adjacent stars. One, *', is used by
>>> Hipparcos for alignment.
>>
>>> *'                === Hipparcos
>>> *
>>
>>> Hipparcos ASSUMES the light from * is bent according to the GR formula.
>>
>>> The separation between the two stars does not alter. So what bending do
>>> you think Hipparcos would find for star *'
>>
>> Ralph, Hipparcos measures light from stars that are WIDELY SEPARATED from
>> each other.  Using your example, the reference star could be away from
>> the sun while the second is closer to the sun, and then later the
>> reference star is closer to the sun while the second is further away!
>> It is easy to find the differences in bending from that data!
> 
> There is no particular reference star.
> The basic principle is like this: The Hipparcos telescope
> projects the images of two 0.9 x 0.9 degrees fields separated
> by 58 degrees onto a common focal surface. At any time, there
> will be 4-5 stars in each field. Between these 16-25 pairs of
> stars the exact angular distance can be measured. (The measuring
> method is very ingenious, see reference below.) The satellite
> is rotating with one rotation during 2 hours, which means that
> each star will use ca. 20 seconds to pass through the 0.9 degrees
> field. During one rotation, a 0.9 degree great circle strip with
> ca. 2000 stars will be scanned. The angular distance between
> all these stars (as seen from the satellite) will now be known
> in one dimension - along the great circle.
> The spin axis will be slowly rotated, so that different, but
> partly overlapping great circle strips are scanned every 2 hours.
> The data from several great circle strips can be combined to
> give a 2 dimensional map of their position (as seen from the
> satellite). During the 3+ years, the whole sky was scanned several
> times, which means that the position of each of the 118210 stars
> were measured several times with the Sun in different positions.
> 
> The Hipparcos satellite was in an eccentric 10 hour orbit.
> (Which is a far cry from the geostationary orbit it was
>   supposed to have, but even if the launch was partly
>   a failure, the mission was very successful anyway.)
> 
> The raw data sent down to Earth as the measurements were
> done were not corrected in any way.
> 
> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Hipparcos_overview
> https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/payload
> https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/data-reductions

Paul, none of that makes any difference to what I said. The plain fact 
is, the light from ALL reference stars was ASSUMED to be bent according 
to GR. That means that all the other stars, whatever their locations 
would also be shown on average to be bent by the GR prediction.
If Newton's equation had been used, then the overall results would 
favour Newton.

You cannot run away Paul. Hipparcos might have been very clever but this 
experiment was a fake.



-- 

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#424182

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2017-07-07 16:16 +0200
Message-ID<ojo535$had$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#424147
Den 07.07.2017 01.55, skrev HGW...:
> On 07/07/17 06:20, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>
>> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Hipparcos_overview
>> https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/payload
>> https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/data-reductions
> 
> Paul, none of that makes any difference to what I said.  > The plain fact is,

SIC! :-D

> the light from ALL reference stars was ASSUMED to be bent according 
> to GR. That means that all the other stars, whatever their locations 
> would also be shown on average to be bent by the GR prediction.
> If Newton's equation had been used, then the overall results would 
> favour Newton.
> 
> You cannot run away Paul. Hipparcos might have been very clever but this 
> experiment was a fake.

Sure, Ralph. Down under the plain fact is that all
the data in the Hipparcos catalogue are faked.

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/search-facility

I live up above were facts aren't upside down, though.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#424214

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-08 09:28 +1000
Message-ID<ojp5ec$2mv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424182
On 08/07/17 00:16, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 07.07.2017 01.55, skrev HGW...:

>>
>> Paul, none of that makes any difference to what I said.  > The plain 
>> fact is,
> 
> SIC! :-D
> 
>> the light from ALL reference stars was ASSUMED to be bent according to 
>> GR. That means that all the other stars, whatever their locations 
>> would also be shown on average to be bent by the GR prediction.
>> If Newton's equation had been used, then the overall results would 
>> favour Newton.
>>
>> You cannot run away Paul. Hipparcos might have been very clever but 
>> this experiment was a fake.
> 
> Sure, Henry. Down under the plain fact is that all
> the data in the Hipparcos catalogue are faked.

No Paul, you must have reading comprehension problem. Hipparcos was not 
intended solely to verify Einstyein's silly theory. It readings are 
perfec tly sound and worthwhile. It mapped some of the sky and 
established parallax distances for many stars.

The fact that it assumed GR defection is of no significance to its main 
purpose. The error in bending is too small to worry about.

> 
> https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/hipparcos/search-facility
> 
> I live up above were facts aren't upside down, though.

You mind lives in fairyland if you believe anything in that faked paper.



-- 

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#424190

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-07-07 15:45 +0000
Message-ID<ojoabl$jjd$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#424147
"HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:

>Paul, none of that makes any difference to what I said. The plain fact 
>is, the light from ALL reference stars was ASSUMED to be bent according 
>to GR. That means that all the other stars, whatever their locations 
>would also be shown on average to be bent by the GR prediction.

No, Ralph. Simultaneous measurements were made of stars 57 degrees
apart.  That would mean that even if assumptions were made as to
their bending, any pair of stars 57 degrees apart would be bent by
quite different amounts, there would be a difference in the bending
which would translate to differences in relative positions.

You could go through the data assuming Newton was correct, calculate
the Newtonian bending of two stars 57 degrees apart and then their
relative positions and see if that matches the data.

You could then go through the data assuming GR was correct, calculate
the GR bending of two stars 57 degrees apart and then their relative
positions and see if that matches the data.

>If Newton's equation had been used, then the overall results would 
>favour Newton.

Nope, they would use Newton's equations and calculate a difference of
offsets for two stars 57 degrees apart, and they'd notice the actual
offset would be about twice that (because of GR).

>You cannot run away Paul. Hipparcos might have been very clever but this 
>experiment was a fake.

You cannot run away, Ralph.  No matter what excuses you try to dream
up, the fact remains that DirtyBaThWater has been disproven, and is
disproven again and again, daily.

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#424215

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-08 09:37 +1000
Message-ID<ojp5vp$3b8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424190
On 08/07/17 01:45, Michael Moroney stuck his nose in where it didn't 
belong and provided even more evidence of his stupidity......

Reference stars are used on both sides of the sun. There are lots of 
them. If the deflection of a reference star is assumed to be x then all 
those around it will also be assumed to bend by that amount.

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#424249

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-07-08 07:35 +0000
Message-ID<ojq1vq$7f5$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#424215
Ralph Rabbidge stuck his nose in where it didn't belong and provided even 
more evidence of his stupidity......

>Reference stars are used on both sides of the sun. There are lots of
>them. If the deflection of a reference star is assumed to be x then all
>those around it will also be assumed to bend by that amount.

Ralph, stars 57 degrees different from each other will not be assumed to
have the same deflection! Because they won't! 57 degrees is nearly 1/6 of
a full circle, Ralph!

Also, Ralph, there are no specific reference stars.

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#424308

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-07-09 10:01 +1000
Message-ID<ojrrp1$1hch$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#424249
.
On 08/07/17 17:35, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ralph Rabbidge stuck his nose in where it didn't belong and provided even
> more evidence of his stupidity......
> 
>> Reference stars are used on both sides of the sun. There are lots of
>> them. If the deflection of a reference star is assumed to be x then all
>> those around it will also be assumed to bend by that amount.
> 
> Ralph, stars 57 degrees different from each other will not be assumed to
> have the same deflection! 

Of course they wont, moron. They will be assumed to have the same """GR 
BASED"""" deflection as a reference star near them.

Because they won't! 57 degrees is nearly 1/6 of
> a full circle, Henry!

DEEErrrrrrrr!!!!

> Also, Henry, there are no specific reference stars.

Of course there are...



-- 

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#424320

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-07-09 02:12 +0000
Message-ID<ojs3e4$vb7$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#424308
"HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:

>.
>On 08/07/17 17:35, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Ralph Rabbidge stuck his nose in where it didn't belong and provided even
>> more evidence of his stupidity......
>> 
>>> Reference stars are used on both sides of the sun. There are lots of
>>> them. If the deflection of a reference star is assumed to be x then all
>>> those around it will also be assumed to bend by that amount.
>> 
>> Ralph, stars 57 degrees different from each other will not be assumed to
>> have the same deflection! 

>Of course they wont, moron. They will be assumed to have the same """GR 
>BASED"""" deflection as a reference star near them.

Ralph, 57 degrees apart is not "near" each other by any stretch of the
imagination.  Did you ever read how the system even worked?  I didn't
think so, Ralph.

>Because they won't! 57 degrees is nearly 1/6 of
>> a full circle, Ralph!

>DEEErrrrrrrr!!!!

Yes, DEEErrrrrrrr.  So you admit that there would be no reason for the two
stars, one near the Sun and the other away, would be assumed to have the
same GR deflection. Because GR will predict quite different deflections
for them.


>> Also, Ralph, there are no specific reference stars.

>Of course there are...

So let's see your reference from all the specifications and papers that 
discuss these reference stars, Ralph.  Oh that's right, Ralph, you never 
read any of that (because you are too scared to), so you just assumed
there just had to be reference stars.

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