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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #418019 > unrolled thread
| Started by | mlwozniak@wp.pl |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-05-04 05:59 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-05-06 11:51 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 140 — 14 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity
GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 05:59 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:03 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 06:24 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-04 15:37 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 06:43 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 13:04 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 06:30 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 10:09 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 15:26 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 17:53 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:03 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 18:09 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:19 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 18:33 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:40 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 09:00 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:11 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 12:11 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 12:20 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 14:45 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 14:50 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 17:22 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 23:22 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 09:07 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 08:28 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 13:08 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:09 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 06:11 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 08:25 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:34 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 13:16 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 15:57 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 14:04 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 16:07 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 14:25 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 13:24 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-07 13:05 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 16:28 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-07 23:23 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-08 13:09 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 06:22 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 08:31 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 08:29 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 07:00 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 10:30 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 09:27 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 12:03 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 10:33 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 15:13 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 20:31 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 08:11 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-05 15:15 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 06:22 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 09:08 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-05 00:27 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 23:24 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-05-05 11:58 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-04 21:23 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 15:21 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-08 13:36 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-04 14:58 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 15:25 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 17:55 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:07 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 09:03 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> - 2017-05-04 16:31 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-04 21:21 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 15:01 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-05-04 22:24 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 22:35 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 14:59 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-05 21:04 +0100
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-05 13:27 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-05 23:15 +0100
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 17:22 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:58 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-05 23:09 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 01:23 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-05 23:35 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-05 15:44 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:54 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-05 23:05 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-05-08 12:25 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 10:35 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-08 20:34 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 20:35 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-09 16:45 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-09 10:25 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-05-09 10:03 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-05-06 06:37 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:23 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 09:17 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 18:18 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-05-07 20:41 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:20 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 00:07 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> - 2017-05-05 22:17 +0000
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:21 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-06 08:01 +0100
Re: GPS and your predictions Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 09:39 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-04 16:32 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-05-05 10:15 +0200
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 01:52 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 09:00 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 08:15 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 13:10 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:14 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 06:14 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 08:34 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:38 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 13:30 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 16:00 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 14:12 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 13:25 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-07 13:09 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 16:31 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-07 23:28 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 08:32 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 07:13 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 10:24 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 09:21 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 12:00 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-08 10:28 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-06 23:51 +0100
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 08:26 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 08:13 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 13:13 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 22:18 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:15 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 12:33 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 14:50 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-06 13:35 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 16:01 -0500
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-04 14:52 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-05 07:43 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 08:17 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-05 09:21 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-05 09:49 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-05 10:22 -0700
Re: GPS and your predictions Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-05-06 11:51 -0700
Page 4 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 14:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oeffje$1ak$2@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #418019 |
mlwozniak@wp.pl writes: >You promised 38 us of time dilation", i.e. 38 us of >difference in clocks indications. >Values match. >Unfortunately, the phenomenon doesn't. >Instead, you have 38us clock correction (i.e. good, >old, absolutely classical clock error). The first GPS satellite launched had a programmable clock. It could run at the normal rate or 38 uS/day slow. When the clock was set at the normal rate, it was observed as not working correctly, it was observed as running too fast. When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. Thus showing the predictions of relativity are correct. Ever since, all GPS satellites have their clocks set to run slow by 38 uS/day. The system runs correctly, again showing the predictions of relativity are correct. Thanks for pointing out how GPS works due to the predictions of relativity!
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| From | Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 15:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oefh4i$cq3$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418054 |
Michael Moroney wrote: > When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. Thus showing the > predictions of relativity are correct. Thanks for pointing out how GPS > works due to the predictions of relativity! He said those 38us was an error. Can't you f. read, or neither you knows how an error looks like in Physics.
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 17:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <oefino$20s$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #418061 |
On 05/04/2017 05:25 PM, Ernest Schillaci wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > >> When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. Thus showing the >> predictions of relativity are correct. Thanks for pointing out how GPS >> works due to the predictions of relativity! > > He said those 38us was an error. Can't you f. read, or neither you knows > how an error looks like in Physics. You do not know even how your name looks like, making up a new one every other day or so.... -- Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer ) A wise man guards words he says, as they say about him more, than he says about the subject.
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| From | Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 16:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oefjjr$ija$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418070 |
Poutnik wrote: > On 05/04/2017 05:25 PM, Ernest Schillaci wrote: >> Michael Moroney wrote: >> >>> When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. Thus showing >>> the predictions of relativity are correct. Thanks for pointing out how >>> GPS works due to the predictions of relativity! >> >> He said those 38us was an error. Can't you f. read, or neither you >> knows how an error looks like in Physics. > > You do not know even how your name looks like, making up a new one every > other day or so.... What are you talking about. Myself stepping in here, watching genuine posters NOT understanding a theory they are supposed to Master. (sci.physics.relativity). There are NO errors in Relativity. Relativity is a Theory based upon a Logical approach. You may safely take Relativity as a Law of Nature. No error content. Go home and learn Physics, my friend.
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| From | mlwozniak@wp.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 09:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1c61ccab-8a32-4032-ad54-989d02238ac8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #418054 |
W dniu czwartek, 4 maja 2017 16:58:56 UTC+2 użytkownik Michael Moroney napisał: > mlwozniak@wp.pl writes: > > >You promised 38 us of time dilation", i.e. 38 us of > >difference in clocks indications. > > >Values match. > >Unfortunately, the phenomenon doesn't. > > >Instead, you have 38us clock correction (i.e. good, > >old, absolutely classical clock error). > > The first GPS satellite launched had a programmable clock. It could > run at the normal rate or 38 uS/day slow. When the clock was set at the > normal rate, it was observed as not working correctly, it was observed as > running too fast. When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. > Thus showing the predictions of relativity are correct. No, poor idiot. Your Shit has predicted 38 us of "time dilation", i.e. 38 us of difference in clocks indications. And what we observe is 38us clock correction (i.e. 38 us of good, old, absolutely classical clock error). > Ever since, all GPS satellites have their clocks set to run slow by 38 uS/day. > The system runs correctly, again showing the predictions of relativity are > correct. No, poor idiot. Your Shit has predicted 38 us of "time dilation", i.e. 38 us of difference in clocks indications. And what we observe is 38us clock correction (i.e. 38 us of good, old, absolutely classical clock error).
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| From | Ernest Schillaci <lgunse@nteeqea.gl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 16:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oefl0e$m41$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418073 |
mlwozniak wrote: > No, poor idiot. Your Shit has predicted 38 us of "time dilation", > i.e. 38 us of difference in clocks indications. > And what we observe is 38us clock correction (i.e. 38 us of good, > old, absolutely classical clock error). There are no errors in Relativity. Who taught you there are errors, in clocks or whatever, is a newbeginner in Physics. Demand your money back IMMEDIATELY. Tell him that I said that.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 21:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oeg5vs$g5j$2@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #418073 |
mlwozniak@wp.pl writes: >> >You promised 38 us of time dilation", i.e. 38 us of >> >difference in clocks indications. >> >Values match. >> >Unfortunately, the phenomenon doesn't. >> >Instead, you have 38us clock correction (i.e. good, >> >old, absolutely classical clock error). >> The first GPS satellite launched had a programmable clock. It could >> run at the normal rate or 38 uS/day slow. When the clock was set at the >> normal rate, it was observed as not working correctly, it was observed as >> running too fast. When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. >> Thus showing the predictions of relativity are correct. >No, poor idiot. Your Shit has predicted 38 us of "time dilation", >i.e. 38 us of difference in clocks indications. Exactly. Relativity predicts the clock will run 38 uS/day fast. The first GPS satellite proved it, because they could switch the 38 uS/day compensation on and off, and they measured what happens with it on and off. Since then, they launch GPS satellites with their clocks set to run 38 uS/day slow. So now, in space, when earthbound observers see it running 38 uS/day faster, we get 38 uS/day-38 uS/day = 0. The clock is seen to run correctly on earth. >And what we observe is 38us clock correction (i.e. 38 us of good, >old, absolutely classical clock error). We see 38 uS/day - 38 uS/day = 0 error on Earth.
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| From | mlwozniak@wp.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 15:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ecfbdacd-6531-48cf-924f-da940346048a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #418123 |
W dniu czwartek, 4 maja 2017 23:21:01 UTC+2 użytkownik Michael Moroney napisał: > mlwozniak@wp.pl writes: > > >> >You promised 38 us of time dilation", i.e. 38 us of > >> >difference in clocks indications. > > >> >Values match. > >> >Unfortunately, the phenomenon doesn't. > > >> >Instead, you have 38us clock correction (i.e. good, > >> >old, absolutely classical clock error). > > >> The first GPS satellite launched had a programmable clock. It could > >> run at the normal rate or 38 uS/day slow. When the clock was set at the > >> normal rate, it was observed as not working correctly, it was observed as > >> running too fast. When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. > >> Thus showing the predictions of relativity are correct. > > >No, poor idiot. Your Shit has predicted 38 us of "time dilation", > >i.e. 38 us of difference in clocks indications. > > Exactly. Relativity predicts the clock will run 38 uS/day fast. And it isn't . Good bye, The Shit. > The first GPS satellite proved it And the second falsified it.
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| From | Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 22:24 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <t93ngcl7cgeh69enp0p7viq85b3ch7egib@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #418054 |
On Thu, 4 May 2017 14:58:54 +0000 (UTC), moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: >mlwozniak@wp.pl writes: > >>You promised 38 us of time dilation", i.e. 38 us of >>difference in clocks indications. > >>Values match. >>Unfortunately, the phenomenon doesn't. > >>Instead, you have 38us clock correction (i.e. good, >>old, absolutely classical clock error). > >The first GPS satellite launched had a programmable clock. It could >run at the normal rate or 38 uS/day slow. When the clock was set at the >normal rate, it was observed as not working correctly, it was observed as >running too fast. When set to run slow at 38 uS/day, it worked perfectly. >Thus showing the predictions of relativity are correct. > >Ever since, all GPS satellites have their clocks set to run slow by 38 uS/day. >The system runs correctly, again showing the predictions of relativity are >correct. > >Thanks for pointing out how GPS works due to the predictions of relativity! You do not need relativity to correct an error of 38 µsec. In fact any other error. Just correct it and take a new measurement, then correct the residual errors. You do not have to know the source or cause of the clock deviation to correct the clock rate. You do not need relativity at all for running the GPS. Gps is purely empirical error corrections, firsthand. w.
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 22:35 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <oeg340$hn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #418115 |
Dne 04/05/2017 v 22:24 Helmut Wabnig napsal(a): > > > You do not need relativity to correct an error of 38 µsec. > In fact any other error. Just correct it and take a new measurement, > then correct the residual errors. > > You do not have to know the source or cause of the clock deviation > to correct the clock rate. > You do not need relativity at all for running the GPS. > Gps is purely empirical error corrections, firsthand. > It is not empirical, but predicted one. And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. -- Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer ) A wise man guards words he says, as they say about him more, than he says about the subject.
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| From | mlwozniak@wp.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-04 14:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <96ca30d3-f399-48bf-97d3-9d39300a541a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #418118 |
W dniu czwartek, 4 maja 2017 22:35:17 UTC+2 użytkownik Poutnik napisał: > Dne 04/05/2017 v 22:24 Helmut Wabnig napsal(a): > > > > > > > You do not need relativity to correct an error of 38 µsec. > > In fact any other error. Just correct it and take a new measurement, > > then correct the residual errors. > > > > You do not have to know the source or cause of the clock deviation > > to correct the clock rate. > > You do not need relativity at all for running the GPS. > > Gps is purely empirical error corrections, firsthand. > > > > It is not empirical, but predicted one. > And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. Oh, really? Think again... does your GR really say it's an error?
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| From | "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 21:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1uKdnTVjqLRIR5HEnZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #418118 |
"Poutnik" wrote in message news:oeg340$hn$1@dont-email.me... Dne 04/05/2017 v 22:24 Helmut Wabnig napsal(a): > > > >You do not need relativity to correct an error of 38 µsec. >> In fact any other error. Just correct it and take a new measurement, >> then correct the residual errors. > >> You do not have to know the source or cause of the clock deviation >> to correct the clock rate. >> You do not need relativity at all for running the GPS. >> Gps is purely empirical error corrections, firsthand. Very probably. I don't know specifically about the design of GPS systems, but I know what we engineers do when building and designing systems that work. I would be stunned if GPS were any different. > >It is not empirical, but predicted one. >And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. No you don't. Look mate, I design analog asics for high performance crystal oscillators (www.rakon.com) We measure every single oscillator over temperature and calibrate the temp comp function generators to the vco to cancel the xtal temp variation. The temp residuals are all over the place, there is no neat little formula one can use. Its an arbitrary curve fit. That's the real world. Pretty much everything today is all real time calibration. Its all ADC->uP-DAC -- Kevin Aylward http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html
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| From | Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 13:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4dda0f2e-ba65-4265-acad-c205e50d68ea@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #418280 |
El viernes, 5 de mayo de 2017, 17:04:43 (UTC-3), Kevin Aylward escribió: > "Poutnik" wrote in message news:oeg340$hn$1@dont-email.me... > >It is not empirical, but predicted one. > >And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. > > No you don't. Look mate, I design analog asics for high performance crystal > oscillators (www.rakon.com) > > We measure every single oscillator over temperature and calibrate the temp > comp function generators to the vco to cancel the xtal temp variation. The > temp residuals are all over the place, there is no neat little formula one > can use. Its an arbitrary curve fit. That's the real world. > > Pretty much everything today is all real time calibration. Its all > ADC->uP-DAC > > > -- Kevin Aylward > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html Not the GPS. The prediction of General Relativity regarding the GPS satellite rate of clocks is as follows, based in the Schwarzschild metric (See http://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1): The rate f_2 of a clock in circular orbit compared to a clock f_1 at the surface of the Earth is, to a first order approximation: f_2/f_1 = (1- GM/c^2r_2 - v_2^2/2c^2) / (1- GM/c^2r_1 - v_1^2/2c^2) which approximates to f_2/f_1 = 1 + GM/c^2 (1/r_1 – 1/r_2) + (v_1^2 - v_2^2) / 2c^2 and the relative rate difference is: (f_2 - f_1) /f_1 = GM/c^2 (1/r_1 – 1/r_2) + (v_1^2 - v_2^2) / 2c^2 Using the following values Gravitational constant G = 6.67384 x 10^11 Nm^2/kg^2 Mass of the Earth M = 5.97219 x 10^24 kg Speed of light in vacuum c = 299792458 m/s Sidereal day = 86164 s Orbital period of GPS satellite = half sidereal day = 43082 s Radius of the Earth r_1 = 6.375 x 10^6 m Radius of GPS orbit r_2 = 26.56 x 10^6 m Speed of ground clock v_1 = 2pi r_1/86164s = 464.87 m/s Speed of satellite v_2 = 2pi r2/43082s = 3873.57 m/s f_2 - f_1) /f_1 = 4.464 x 10^-10 Which is equivalent to 38.46 microseconds per sidereal day. Ashby tells what the experimental test in 1977 brought as a result: "There is an interesting story about this frequency offset. At the time of launch of the NTS-2 satellite (23 June 1977), which contained the first Cesium atomic clock to be placed in orbit, it was recognized that orbiting clocks would require a relativistic correction, but there was uncertainty as to its magnitude as well as its sign. Indeed, there were some who doubted that relativistic effects were truths that would need to be incorporated [5]! A frequency synthesizer was built into the satellite clock system so that after launch, if in fact the rate of the clock in its final orbit was that predicted by general relativity, then the synthesizer could be turned on, bringing the clock to the coordinate rate necessary for operation. After the Cesium clock was turned on in NTS-2, it was operated for about 20 days to measure its clock rate before turning on the synthesizer [11]. The frequency measured during that interval was +442.5 parts in 10^12 compared to clocks on the ground, while general relativity predicted +446.5 parts in 10^12. The difference was well within the accuracy capabilities of the orbiting clock. This then gave about a 1% verification of the combined second-order Doppler and gravitational frequency shift effects for a clock at 4.2 earth radii." So, GR rate difference prediction is 4.465 x 10^-10 Tested 1977 rate difference was 4.425 x 10^-10 Tested rate difference agreed with GR prediction.
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| From | "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 23:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BtqdnRipt9wOZJHEnZ2dnUU7-Q_NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #418287 |
"Paparios" wrote in message news:4dda0f2e-ba65-4265-acad-c205e50d68ea@googlegroups.com... El viernes, 5 de mayo de 2017, 17:04:43 (UTC-3), Kevin Aylward escribió: > "Poutnik" wrote in message news:oeg340$hn$1@dont-email.me... > >It is not empirical, but predicted one. > >And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. > > No you don't. Look mate, I design analog asics for high performance > crystal > oscillators (www.rakon.com) > > We measure every single oscillator over temperature and calibrate the temp > comp function generators to the vco to cancel the xtal temp variation. > The > temp residuals are all over the place, there is no neat little formula one > can use. Its an arbitrary curve fit. That's the real world. > > Pretty much everything today is all real time calibration. Its all > ADC->uP-DAC > > > -- Kevin Aylward > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html >Not the GPS. The prediction of General Relativity regarding the GPS >satellite >rate of clocks is as follows, based in the Schwarzschild metric >(See http://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1): >The rate f_2 of a clock in circular orbit compared to a clock f_1 at the .>surface of the Earth is, to a first order approximation: >f_2/f_1 = (1- GM/c^2r_2 - v_2^2/2c^2) / (1- GM/c^2r_1 - v_1^2/2c^2) If there is a fixed 38us correction, then GR/SR is superfluous. One just sticks in the 38 us. Dah... -- Kevin Aylward http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 17:22 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oeitvj$6l5$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418307 |
On 5/5/17 5:15 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote: > If there is a fixed 38us correction, then GR/SR is superfluous. One just > sticks in the 38 us. Dah... That's in effect what was done, by altering the clock speed. Nevertheless, the reason why the clock speed was changed was that GR predicted the daily creep of 38 microseconds. It's a really subtle difference between "We're sticking in this correction because it seems to work, though we don't have any idea why," and "We're sticking in this correction because it seems to work, and we know exactly why." -- Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-06 00:58 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <oeivs0$ag6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #418310 |
Dne 06/05/2017 v 00:22 Odd Bodkin napsal(a): > On 5/5/17 5:15 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote: >> If there is a fixed 38us correction, then GR/SR is superfluous. One >> just sticks in the 38 us. Dah... > > That's in effect what was done, by altering the clock speed. > Nevertheless, the reason why the clock speed was changed was that GR > predicted the daily creep of 38 microseconds. It's a really subtle > difference between > "We're sticking in this correction because it seems to work, though we > don't have any idea why," > and > "We're sticking in this correction because it seems to work, and we know > exactly why." > Sometimes, it makes the subtle difference between engineers and scientists. -- Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer ) A wise man guards words he says, as they say about him more, than he says about the subject.
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| From | Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 23:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oej0nt$avr$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418324 |
Poutnik wrote: > Sometimes, it makes the subtle difference between engineers and > scientists. Would you trust a bridge built by which?
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-06 01:23 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <oej1c4$f7e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #418330 |
Dne 06/05/2017 v 01:09 Prijzen Sörözésekre napsal(a): > Poutnik wrote: > >> Sometimes, it makes the subtle difference between engineers and >> scientists. > > Would you trust a bridge built by which? Would you trust hitting nails by a screwdriver, or screwing nuts by a hammer ? -- Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer ) A wise man guards words he says, as they say about him more, than he says about the subject.
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| From | Prijzen Sörözésekre <ouwu@wueidewliiut.te> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 23:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oej28b$d2h$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #418336 |
Poutnik wrote: > Dne 06/05/2017 v 01:09 Prijzen Sörözésekre napsal(a): >> Poutnik wrote: >> >>> Sometimes, it makes the subtle difference between engineers and >>> scientists. >> >> Would you trust a bridge built by which? > > Would you trust hitting nails by a screwdriver, or screwing nuts by a > hammer ? Actually that's a requirement, using a screwdrivers like a hammer. You seemingly can't be either of the above two. Let's rather take a look at your mathematical abilities, the area you can cover, in a sunny day.
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| From | Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-05 15:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ceaf0de8-f1d3-4eb1-9f50-c9016cf11fc3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #418307 |
El viernes, 5 de mayo de 2017, 19:15:54 (UTC-3), Kevin Aylward escribió: > "Paparios" wrote in message > news:4dda0f2e-ba65-4265-acad-c205e50d68ea@googlegroups.com... > > El viernes, 5 de mayo de 2017, 17:04:43 (UTC-3), Kevin Aylward escribió: > > "Poutnik" wrote in message news:oeg340$hn$1@dont-email.me... > > > >It is not empirical, but predicted one. > > >And you do need GR to say why particularly 38 us. > > > > No you don't. Look mate, I design analog asics for high performance > > crystal > > oscillators (www.rakon.com) > > > > We measure every single oscillator over temperature and calibrate the temp > > comp function generators to the vco to cancel the xtal temp variation. > > The > > temp residuals are all over the place, there is no neat little formula one > > can use. Its an arbitrary curve fit. That's the real world. > > > > Pretty much everything today is all real time calibration. Its all > > ADC->uP-DAC > > > > > > -- Kevin Aylward > > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html > > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html > > >Not the GPS. The prediction of General Relativity regarding the GPS > >satellite > >rate of clocks is as follows, based in the Schwarzschild metric > >(See http://link.springer.com/article/10.12942/lrr-2003-1): > > >The rate f_2 of a clock in circular orbit compared to a clock f_1 at the > .>surface of the Earth is, to a first order approximation: > > >f_2/f_1 = (1- GM/c^2r_2 - v_2^2/2c^2) / (1- GM/c^2r_1 - v_1^2/2c^2) > > If there is a fixed 38us correction, then GR/SR is superfluous. One just > sticks in the 38 us. Dah... > Do not make a fool of yourself. GR predicts those differences and the GPS people just applied that predicted correction en every satellite they have launched in the last 40 years. > > > -- Kevin Aylward > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html > http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html
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