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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #392295 > unrolled thread

AC Gravity.

Started byHGW <hw@....>
First post2016-09-14 18:01 +1000
Last post2016-09-16 06:48 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 97 — 14 participants

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Contents

  AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 18:01 +1000
    Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-14 17:04 -0500
      Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 15:22 -0700
        Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 09:53 +1000
          Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 19:10 -0700
          Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-15 00:01 -0500
            Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 17:47 +1000
          Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-15 15:27 +0000
            Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-16 06:44 +1000
              Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-15 17:16 -0500
                Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-16 11:20 +1000
              Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-15 22:54 +0000
                Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-16 11:27 +1000
                  Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-16 03:58 +0000
                    Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-17 04:58 +1000
                      Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 12:18 -0700
                        Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-18 05:42 +1000
                          Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 21:08 -0700
                            Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-18 20:09 +1000
                              Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-18 12:57 +0000
                                Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-19 15:11 +1000
                                  Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-19 14:37 +0000
                                    Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-20 04:44 +1000
                                      Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-19 21:47 +0000
                                  Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 11:16 -0500
                                    Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-19 13:22 -0500
                                    Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-20 04:58 +1000
                                      Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-19 22:24 -0500
                                        Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-21 20:04 +1000
                                      Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-20 07:20 -0500
                                        Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-21 20:10 +1000
                                          Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 07:59 -0500
                                          Re: AC Gravity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-22 13:57 +0200
                              Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 09:51 -0500
                          Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 09:32 -0500
                            Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-20 04:52 +1000
                              Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-19 22:35 -0500
                                Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-21 20:08 +1000
                              Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-20 07:18 -0500
                      Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 14:22 -0500
                      Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-16 20:55 +0000
                        Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-18 05:40 +1000
                          Re: AC Gravity. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-09-17 17:59 -0700
                          Re: AC Gravity. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-18 03:18 +0000
      Re: AC Gravity. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 07:27 +0200
        Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 17:50 +1000
          Re: AC Gravity. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 07:06 +0200
          Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 00:54 -0700
            Re: AC Gravity. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-30 09:44 -0700
        Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-15 11:51 -0500
          Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-16 12:04 +1000
            Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-16 22:17 -0500
              Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-18 06:27 +1000
                Re: AC Gravity. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-09-20 19:47 -0500
                  Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-21 19:48 +1000
          Re: AC Gravity. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 07:21 +0200
            Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-22 01:33 -0700
              Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 04:50 -0700
                Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-22 05:53 -0700
                  Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-22 14:43 -0700
                    Re: AC Gravity. HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-23 08:18 +1000
                      Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-22 15:39 -0700
                      Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 07:01 -0500
                    Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-23 01:12 -0700
                      Re: AC Gravity. Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 09:46 +0000
                        Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-24 05:37 -0700
                          Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-24 07:32 -0700
                            Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-25 06:35 -0700
                              Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-25 10:58 -0700
                                Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-26 02:37 -0700
                                  Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 04:32 -0700
                          Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:05 -0500
                            Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-25 06:00 -0700
                              Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 17:15 -0500
                                Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-26 02:54 -0700
                                  Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 08:29 -0500
                      Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-23 05:34 -0700
                        Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-26 04:10 -0700
                          Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 05:30 -0700
                            Re: AC Gravity. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-09-26 06:38 -0700
                            Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-27 05:11 -0700
                              Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 08:47 -0700
                                Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-28 10:16 -0700
                                  Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-28 14:03 -0700
                                    Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-09-30 05:33 -0700
                                      Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-30 06:41 -0700
                                        Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-10-02 02:39 -0700
                                          Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-02 05:26 -0700
                                            Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-10-05 04:54 -0700
                                              Re: AC Gravity. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-06 06:59 -0700
                                                Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-10-09 05:25 -0700
                                                  Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 06:06 -0700
                                                    Re: AC Gravity. Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 10:06 -0700
                                                      Re: AC Gravity. jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-10-12 08:28 -0700
                          Re: AC Gravity. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 08:32 -0500
    Re: AC Gravity. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-09-15 15:38 +0200
      Re: AC Gravity. "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-16 06:48 +1000

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#392905

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-19 15:11 +1000
Message-ID<nrns1u$1a2c$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392816
On 18/09/16 22:57, Michael Moroney wrote:
> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>
>> On 18/09/16 14:08, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-5, HGWilson,
>>> DSc. wrote:
>
>>>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>>>
>>>> Who told you that? Gravitational waves must be spherical and
>>>> longitudinal.
>>>
>>> Your handwaving ***guesses*** have no value.
>
>> Poor fellow! He has never heard a balloon pop.
>
> Henry George Wilson DSc., a popping balloon does not generate
> gravity waves, Henry.

Gee you seem extra bright today.

A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.

In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
whatever gravity fields are made of.



-- 

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#392945

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-09-19 14:37 +0000
Message-ID<nrot7o$p6k$5@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#392905
HGW <hw@....> writes:

>On 18/09/16 22:57, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>>
>>> On 18/09/16 14:08, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-5, HGWilson,
>>>> DSc. wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who told you that? Gravitational waves must be spherical and
>>>>> longitudinal.
>>>>
>>>> Your handwaving ***guesses*** have no value.
>>
>>> Poor fellow! He has never heard a balloon pop.
>>
>> Henry George Wilson DSc., a popping balloon does not generate
>> gravity waves, Henry.

>Gee you seem extra bright today.

>A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.

>In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>whatever gravity fields are made of.

Ralph Malcolm Rabbbidge, don't avoid the issue, Ralph. Ralph M. Rabbidge,
we were discussing the fact that gravitational waves are transverse,
Ralph, not whether a popping balloon produces longitudinal pressure
waves, Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge.  Ralph Rabbidge, everyone knows sound
waves are longitudinal, Ralph.  Ralph, once again, lay off the stupid
pills, Ralph.

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#392982

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-09-20 04:44 +1000
Message-ID<nrpblt$8jg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392945
On 20/09/16 00:37, Michael Moron-y wrote:
> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>
>> On 18/09/16 22:57, Michael Moroney wrote:

>> Gee you seem extra bright today.
>
>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>
>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>
> Henry George Wilson DSc., don't avoid the issue, .......

I am not avoiding the main issue...which is your complete ignorance of 
basic physics....

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#393002

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-09-19 21:47 +0000
Message-ID<nrpmed$pu8$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#392982
"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> writes:

>On 20/09/16 00:37, Michael Moron-y wrote:
>> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>>
>>> On 18/09/16 22:57, Michael Moroney wrote:

>>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.

>>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>>
>> Henry George Wilson DSc., don't avoid the issue, .......

>I am not avoiding the main issue...which is your complete ignorance of 
>basic physics....

Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge, no, Ralph.  Ralph Rabbidge, we were discussing
whether gravitational waves were transverse or longitudinal, Ralph.
Mr. Rabbidge, when several people pointed out that they were
transverse, Ralph, that's when you changed the subject to balloons and
then personal attacks, Ralph M. Rabbidge.

Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge, to remind you, I'll include the previous post
to show everyone else how you changed the subject to a balloon and
sound waves, Ralph, to avoid the transverse/longitudinal question,
Ralph Rabbidge.

----------------------------------------------------------------

>On 18/09/16 22:57, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>>
>>> On 18/09/16 14:08, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-5, HGWilson,
>>>> DSc. wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who told you that? Gravitational waves must be spherical and
>>>>> longitudinal.
>>>>
>>>> Your handwaving ***guesses*** have no value.
>>
>>> Poor fellow! He has never heard a balloon pop.
>>
>> Henry George Wilson DSc., a popping balloon does not generate
>> gravity waves, Henry.

>Gee you seem extra bright today.

>A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.

>In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>whatever gravity fields are made of.

Ralph Malcolm Rabbbidge, don't avoid the issue, Ralph. Ralph M. Rabbidge,
we were discussing the fact that gravitational waves are transverse,
Ralph, not whether a popping balloon produces longitudinal pressure
waves, Ralph Malcolm Rabbidge.  Ralph Rabbidge, everyone knows sound
waves are longitudinal, Ralph.  Ralph, once again, lay off the stupid
pills, Ralph.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#392964

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-19 11:16 -0500
Message-ID<nrp305$1l01$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392905
On 9/19/2016 12:11 AM, HGW wrote:
> Gee you seem extra bright today.
>
> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>
> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
> whatever gravity fields are made of.

Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic 
waves are also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#392980

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-09-19 13:22 -0500
Message-ID<A6GdnZi7U5JnsX3KnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#392964
On 9/19/16 9/19/16 - 11:16 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 9/19/2016 12:11 AM, HGW wrote:
>> Gee you seem extra bright today.
>>
>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>>
>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>
> Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic waves are
> also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.

It will be even more fun to see if he knows that there are no spherical E&M waves.

	Hint: look up the "hairy ball theorem".

Tom Roberts

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#392986

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-09-20 04:58 +1000
Message-ID<nrpcgn$9pe$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392964
On 20/09/16 02:16, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 9/19/2016 12:11 AM, HGW wrote:
>> Gee you seem extra bright today.
>>
>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>>
>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>
> Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic
> waves are also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.

I can....but I will first draw your attention to the fact that my 
statement deliberately included the phrase 'of that nature'.

The closest we can get to a spherical EM wave might come from a spark 
discharge.... But EM is initially particulate...and it is the 
oscillation of each particle (photon) that is transverse and responsible 
for the polarization of the outgoing radiation.

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#393048

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-09-19 22:24 -0500
Message-ID<ffGdnYxn3794Nn3KnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#392986
On 9/19/16 9/19/16   1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> The closest we can get to a spherical EM wave might come from a spark
> discharge.

It's remarkable how frequently you display your complete lack of understanding
of basic physics. Or rather, it's sad.

There _ARE_ no spherical EM waves. The lowest possible spherical harmonic is a
dipole.

	The simplest way to see this is to remember that EM waves have
	transverse E and B fields, which are (of course) vectors. The
	"hairy ball theorem" states that for any vector field on the
	surface of a sphere there is at least one zero, somewhere. So
	an EM wave cannot possibly have constant intensity in all
	directions (which is what "spherical" means), because its
	intensity must be zero in some direction.


> But EM is initially particulate...and it is the oscillation of each particle
> (photon) that is transverse and responsible for the polarization of the
> outgoing radiation.

But the polarization of photons is NOT transverse. A photon can have only two 
polarization states: helicity +1 and -1 (i.e. spin aligned and anti-aligned with 
its momentum; a spin-1 particle would normally have transverse polarizations 
too, but because the photon is massless it doesn't; BTW this is a direct 
consequence of Lorentz invariance and is supported solidly by experiments).

	A light BEAM can have a transverse linear polarization, because
	it can consist of an appropriate superposition of photons
	with helicities +1 and -1.

As usual, you just make stuff up and pretend it is true. How silly. And sad.


Tom Roberts

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#393198

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-21 20:04 +1000
Message-ID<nrtlv2$ej3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393048
On 20/09/16 13:24, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 9/19/16 9/19/16   1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>> The closest we can get to a spherical EM wave might come from a
>> spark discharge.
>
> It's remarkable how frequently you display your complete lack of
> understanding of basic physics. Or rather, it's sad.
>
> There _ARE_ no spherical EM waves. The lowest possible spherical
> harmonic is a dipole.

I said the closest we could get. A spark emits EM in almost a solid 360
degrees. But it emits particles called photons which are individual
entities at that stage of their lives.
>
> The simplest way to see this is to remember that EM waves have
> transverse E and B fields, which are (of course) vectors. The "hairy
> ball theorem" states that for any vector field on the surface of a
> sphere there is at least one zero, somewhere. So an EM wave cannot
> possibly have constant intensity in all directions (which is what
> "spherical" means), because its intensity must be zero in some
> direction.
>
>
>> But EM is initially particulate...and it is the oscillation of each
>>  particle (photon) that is transverse and responsible for the
>> polarization of the outgoing radiation.
>
> But the polarization of photons is NOT transverse. A photon can have
>  only two polarization states: helicity +1 and -1 (i.e. spin aligned
> and anti-aligned with its momentum; a spin-1 particle would normally
> have transverse polarizations too, but because the photon is massless
> it doesn't; BTW this is a direct consequence of Lorentz invariance
> and is supported solidly by experiments).

You're talking about circular polarization. Haven't you heard of linear
polarization? That is transverse and determined by an alignment of the
electric field of all the photons in the beam.
Of course BaTh says that photon merge into a kind of medium that they
carry along with them and form into broader wavefronts in that
medium...but it can still be transversely polarized...not sure about
circularly though.

> A light BEAM can have a transverse linear polarization, because it
> can consist of an appropriate superposition of photons with
> helicities +1 and -1.

No you are very confused about this.

> As usual, you just make stuff up and pretend it is true. How silly.
> And sad.
>
>
> Tom Roberts


-- 

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#393076

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-20 07:20 -0500
Message-ID<nrr9hf$skr$8@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392986
On 9/19/2016 1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 20/09/16 02:16, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 9/19/2016 12:11 AM, HGW wrote:
>>> Gee you seem extra bright today.
>>>
>>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>>>
>>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>>
>> Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic
>> waves are also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.
>
> I can....but I will first draw your attention to the fact that my
> statement deliberately included the phrase 'of that nature'.

Oh, I'm fully aware of your carefully pondered semantic dodge. It's the 
only effort you put into any of your posts. "How can I say something 
that sounds wrong but is defensibly true?"

>
> The closest we can get to a spherical EM wave might come from a spark
> discharge.... But EM is initially particulate...and it is the
> oscillation of each particle (photon) that is transverse and responsible
> for the polarization of the outgoing radiation.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#393200

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-21 20:10 +1000
Message-ID<nrtmbc$f0d$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393076
On 20/09/16 22:20, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 9/19/2016 1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:

>>>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>>>>
>>>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>>>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>>>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic
>>> waves are also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.
>>
>> I can....but I will first draw your attention to the fact that my
>> statement deliberately included the phrase 'of that nature'.
>
> Oh, I'm fully aware of your carefully pondered semantic dodge. It's the
> only effort you put into any of your posts. "How can I say something
> that sounds wrong but is defensibly true?"

Bodkin, why do I feel so smug just because I keep winning debates 
against you?



-- 

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#393212

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-21 07:59 -0500
Message-ID<nru088$10d1$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393200
On 9/21/2016 5:10 AM, HGW wrote:
> On 20/09/16 22:20, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 9/19/2016 1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>
>>>>> A popping balloon sends out a spherical longitudinal sound wave.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact all spherical waves of that nature must be longitudinal. When
>>>>> mass disappears, a longitudinal spherical wave is projected through
>>>>> whatever gravity fields are made of.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you could also try to explain that spherical electromagnetic
>>>> waves are also longitudinal because they must be. This should be fun.
>>>
>>> I can....but I will first draw your attention to the fact that my
>>> statement deliberately included the phrase 'of that nature'.
>>
>> Oh, I'm fully aware of your carefully pondered semantic dodge. It's the
>> only effort you put into any of your posts. "How can I say something
>> that sounds wrong but is defensibly true?"
>
> Bodkin, why do I feel so smug just because I keep winning debates
> against you?

In whose estimation?
Look at yourself in the mirror and pat yourself on the back that you are 
the only true scientist in existence. Tell yourself that you are 
important. Tell yourself that Archimedes Plutonium is fooling himself 
when he looks in the mirror and says the same things to himself. Then 
look at yourself in the mirror some more.



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#393323

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-09-22 13:57 +0200
Message-ID<ns0gvq$36s$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#393200
On 21.09.2016 12:10, HGW wrote:
>
> Bodkin, why do I feel so smug just because I keep winning debates
> against you?
>

Could it be because you are a victim of your own self-conceit?

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#392949

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-19 09:51 -0500
Message-ID<nrou27$17o2$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392812
On 9/18/2016 5:09 AM, HGW wrote:
> On 18/09/16 14:08, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-5, HGWilson, DSc.
>> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>>
>>> Who told you that?
>>> Gravitational waves must be spherical and longitudinal.
>>
>> Your handwaving ***guesses*** have no value.
>
> Poor fellow! He has never heard a balloon pop.
>
>
>

Henry applies the principle "Sound waves exist and are longitudinal. 
Therefore any waves are also longitudinal."

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#392941

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-19 09:32 -0500
Message-ID<nrosts$13ar$7@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392739
On 9/17/2016 2:42 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 17/09/16 05:18, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

>>
>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>
> Who told you that?
> Gravitational waves must be spherical and longitudinal.

Who told you that?



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#392985

From"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
Date2016-09-20 04:52 +1000
Message-ID<nrpc5g$9c0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392941
On 20/09/16 00:32, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 9/17/2016 2:42 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>> On 17/09/16 05:18, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>
>> Who told you that? Gravitational waves must be spherical and
>> longitudinal.
>
> Who told you that?

Who told you they are not?
Since gravitational waves have only been hypothesized and
the recent claimed observation of one didn't reveal anything about it, 
neither you nor anyone else is in a position to comment on whether it is 
longitudinal or transverse.

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#393049

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-09-19 22:35 -0500
Message-ID<wIqdnRyPXqT-M33KnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#392985
On 9/19/16 9/19/16   1:52 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> Since gravitational waves have only been hypothesized and
> the recent claimed observation of one didn't reveal anything about it, neither
> you nor anyone else is in a position to comment on whether it is longitudinal or
> transverse.

NONSENSE! You only display your personal ignorance of what science is and how it 
operates, and also your ignorance of what the LIGO team actually did.

The only theory we have that includes gravitational waves is GR, and in GR they 
are self-propagating transverse disturbances in the metric. Unlike E&M, in which 
waves can have any multipole >= dipole, the gravitational waves of GR can only 
have multipoles >= quadrupole.

	In short, monopole and dipole gravitational waves are prohibited
	by momentum conservation in the source. Similarly in E&M,
	monopole waves are prohibited by charge conservation in the
	source.


Tom Roberts

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#393199

FromHGW <hw@....>
Date2016-09-21 20:08 +1000
Message-ID<nrtm6k$f0d$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#393049
On 20/09/16 13:35, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 9/19/16 9/19/16   1:52 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>> Since gravitational waves have only been hypothesized and the
>> recent claimed observation of one didn't reveal anything about it,
>>  neither you nor anyone else is in a position to comment on whether
>> it is longitudinal or transverse.
>
> NONSENSE! You only display your personal ignorance of what science is
>  and how it operates, and also your ignorance of what the LIGO team
> actually did.
>
> The only theory we have that includes gravitational waves is GR, and
> in GR they are self-propagating transverse disturbances in the
> metric. Unlike E&M, in which waves can have any multipole >= dipole,
> the gravitational waves of GR can only have multipoles >=
> quadrupole.

Well GR is all based on the fallacy that light speed is constant so we
don't have to believe any of that.

> In short, monopole and dipole gravitational waves are prohibited by
> momentum conservation in the source. Similarly in E&M, monopole waves
> are prohibited by charge conservation in the source.

A mass in space has no velocity or momentum.
If it suddenly disappears there is no momentum that needs to be conserved.

> Tom Roberts
>


-- 

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#393071

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-20 07:18 -0500
Message-ID<nrr9eq$skr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392985
On 9/19/2016 1:52 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 20/09/16 00:32, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 9/17/2016 2:42 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
>>> On 17/09/16 05:18, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Gravitational waves are transverse quadrupole waves.
>>>
>>> Who told you that? Gravitational waves must be spherical and
>>> longitudinal.
>>
>> Who told you that?
>
> Who told you they are not?
> Since gravitational waves have only been hypothesized and
> the recent claimed observation of one didn't reveal anything about it,
> neither you nor anyone else is in a position to comment on whether it is
> longitudinal or transverse.
>

LOL. So you believe you are free to claim that it is certain that is the 
way you say it is, because it is uncertain.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#392615

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-16 14:22 -0500
Message-ID<nrhgqb$48i$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#392610
On 9/16/2016 1:58 PM, HGWilson, DSc. wrote:
> On 16/09/16 13:58, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> HGW <hw@....> writes:
>
>>
>> Don't change the subject, Henry.  Tom is much better at mathematic than
>> you since you apparently believe a few times 10,000 km is smaller than
>> 10 meters.
>>
>>> You have assumed gravity moves at c and you also believe Tom's claim
>>> that the detector has to be within a few wavelengths.
>>
>> This is from the well-known near field and far field effects of a
>> radiating object.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field
>
> That applies to transverse waves, idiot! Gravitational waves are
> longitudinal.

No sir.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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