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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #383919 > unrolled thread

Questions for SRians

Started bykenseto <setoken@att.net>
First post2016-05-21 14:38 -0700
Last post2016-05-23 18:20 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 86 — 13 participants

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Contents

  Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 14:38 -0700
    Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-21 20:56 -0500
      Re: Questions for SRians JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 10:54 -0700
      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 09:35 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-24 08:40 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:21 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:30 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:28 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:54 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 16:55 +0000
                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:55 -0500
                  Re: Questions for SRians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 14:59 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:19 -0700
              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 12:14 -0700
                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:18 -0500
                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:50 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:40 -0500
                Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:00 -0700
                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:40 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0500
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:06 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 14:51 +0000
                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:44 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:05 -0700
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 04:51 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:29 -0700
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:33 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:53 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:56 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:01 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:12 -0500
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 05:14 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:00 -0500
                            Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 22:45 +0000
                              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:16 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0500
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:19 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:25 -0500
                                    Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:19 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:59 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:40 -0700
                                          Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:59 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:10 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:21 -0700
                                    Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 16:26 +0000
                                      Re: Questions for SRians "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700
                                      Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:57 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-26 13:28 -0400
                                          Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:33 -0500
                                            Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:16 -0700
                                              Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:54 -0500
                                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 17:36 +0000
                                          Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 10:50 -0700
                                            Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 14:48 -0500
                                              Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 14:51 -0700
                                                Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 17:03 -0500
                                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 13:53 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:06 -0700
                                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:57 -0700
                                        Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-27 02:46 +0000
                              Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 10:11 -0700
                                Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 11:17 -0500
                                  Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 16:11 -0700
                    Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:22 -0700
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:15 -0700
                          Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:35 -0700
                            Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:02 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:35 -0500
                          Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:41 -0500
                      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:59 -0700
                        Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:20 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-25 21:48 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:09 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-05-25 00:04 +0200
      Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 16:47 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 12:03 -0500
          Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 14:34 -0700
            Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-29 22:04 -0500
              Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 22:26 -0700
                Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-06-03 10:42 -0500
    Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-22 14:20 +0200
      Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 08:37 -0700
        Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-23 18:20 +0200

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#384174

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-25 07:06 -0700
Message-ID<bb558626-1ce4-4f0e-b4b3-400cf523bab2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384170
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 9:46:08 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 5/25/2016 8:40 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 4:00:57 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> >>
> >>> ROTFLOL.....if the path are same and the speed are the same then
> >>> there is no difference in odometer readings....
> >>
> >> Agreed, and I never said otherwise.
> >>
> >> But if the path are the same and the speed different, then there still is
> >> no difference in odometer readings. Do you agree to that?
> >
> > That confirms what I said: speed affects the different odometer readings....not
> > the path length as claimed by Tom Roberts. Also the two cars would not be able
> > to arrive at NY simultaneously. So the comparison of the two odometers is pointless.
> >
> 
> LOL, Ken. This is TOO funny!
> 
> So you're saying that if you and I take off in cars from Chicago and 
> take different routes, that it will be impossible for us to arrive in NY 
> at the same time? Have you never done this in real life? Really?
> 

No idiot, I said no such thing. I said that if you and I takes two different path  lengths from Chicago to NY we must be travel at different speed for us to arrive at NY simultaneously. The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. 

That means that between two clocks in relative motion the difference in accumulated clock seconds between meetings is due to the difference in their absolute motions and the observed relative motion is the vector difference of their absolute motions.

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#384178

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-05-25 14:51 +0000
Message-ID<ni4e5t$o4r$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#384174
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

> The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. 

Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
no matter what their speed.

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#384212

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-25 13:44 -0700
Message-ID<a49f1026-669e-4c6c-8aff-e47293760049@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384178
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> 
> > The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. 
> 
> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
> no matter what their speed.

We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY simultaneously.

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#384219

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-25 14:05 -0700
Message-ID<aaa57060-b7aa-4c62-8f8f-5c65c42f9905@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384212
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 4:44:34 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:

How about these:

Say, you from Chicago to Ny along a path of 800 mi at speed 50 mi/h.
Arriving there, what does your odometer read?


Same question, but you now travel with a speed of 100 mi/h...odometer reads? 

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#384272

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 04:51 -0700
Message-ID<cfbcda03-8df1-4fc6-82c4-7ff25c4f369b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384219
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 4:44:34 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> 
> How about these:
> 
> Say, you from Chicago to Ny along a path of 800 mi at speed 50 mi/h.
> Arriving there, what does your odometer read?
> 
> 
> Same question, but you now travel with a speed of 100 mi/h...odometer reads?

But they will not arrive at NY simultaneously. So what is your point?

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#384279

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 07:29 -0700
Message-ID<d223f2c5-a97f-4e71-a9ee-f3fcf09ee9e3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384272
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 7:51:28 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:

> > Say, you from Chicago to Ny along a path of 800 mi at speed 50 mi/h.
> > Arriving there, what does your odometer read?

Still no answer? Why do you fear answering that simple question? Is it because you strongly think that you are going to fail it? If you keep hiding, you will never advance. So, take a deep breadth, and attempt to answer the question. 

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#384287

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 08:33 -0700
Message-ID<adedf6f0-bb85-4af1-ac7d-a6fb064d8348@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384279
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:29:09 AM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 7:51:28 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
> 
> > > Say, you from Chicago to Ny along a path of 800 mi at speed 50 mi/h.
> > > Arriving there, what does your odometer read?
> 
> Still no answer? Why do you fear answering that simple question? Is it because you strongly think that you are going to fail it? If you keep hiding, you will never advance. So, take a deep breadth, and attempt to answer the question.

Sigh.....we are not talking about a car travels 800mi and what its odometer reads. We are taking about two cars travel different path-lengths and meet simultaneously.....the different mileage accumulate by both odometers is due to the path-lengths and  the speeds of each car.

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#384289

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 08:53 -0700
Message-ID<b837d765-e55e-4b9f-a90c-4c00ce586050@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384287
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
 
> Sigh.....we are not talking about a car travels 800mi and what its 
> odometer reads. 

Yes we are. Before we discuss (again) *your* particular scenario, we need to understand some preliminary things. So lest just consider only one car, traveling a path of 800 mi. at speed 50 mi/h. What will his odometer read upon arrival? I would like to get that cleared up before proceeding. 


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#384292

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 09:23 -0700
Message-ID<96c7412a-b2e9-4f01-a2c8-1f2141ca0f85@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384289
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:53:54 AM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
>  
> > Sigh.....we are not talking about a car travels 800mi and what its 
> > odometer reads. 
> 
> Yes we are. 

No we are not. If you want to discuss your scenario...talk to somebody else. I am  not interested.

>Before we discuss (again) *your* particular scenario, we need to understand some preliminary things. So lest just consider only one car, traveling a path of 800 mi. at speed 50 mi/h. What will his odometer read upon arrival? I would like to get that cleared up before proceeding.

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#384296

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 11:56 -0500
Message-ID<ni79r6$1jp9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384292
On 5/26/2016 11:23 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:53:54 AM UTC-4, rotchm wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
>>
>>> Sigh.....we are not talking about a car travels 800mi and what its
>>> odometer reads.
>>
>> Yes we are.
>
> No we are not. If you want to discuss your scenario...talk to somebody else. I am  not interested.

Rotchm, this is where you have the opportunity to do the one thing that 
drives Ken nuts. Declare that, since Ken is being nonresponsive, you 
have won the argument.

Ken is not afraid of saying stupid things, but he IS afraid of losing an 
argument.

>
>> Before we discuss (again) *your* particular scenario, we need to understand some preliminary things.
>> So lest just consider only one car, traveling a path of 800 mi. at speed 50 mi/h. What will his
>> odometer read upon arrival? I would like to get that cleared up before proceeding.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384329

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 13:01 -0700
Message-ID<9c160dbf-5e45-4d79-99f7-2a5491be6f13@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384292
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:23:36 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:

> No we are not. If you want to discuss your scenario..
> .talk to somebody else. I am  not interested.

We are trying to discuss your scenario. But to do so, we need some clarification from you. Why dont you want to clarify your scenario for us?

Again: 

Before we discuss *your* particular scenario, we need to understand some preliminary things. So lets just consider only one car, traveling a path of 800 mi. at speed 50 mi/h. What will his odometer read upon arrival? I would like to get that cleared up before proceeding. Then we can move on to your specific scenario. 

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#384222

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-25 16:12 -0500
Message-ID<ni54fo$ofn$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384212
On 5/25/2016 3:44 PM, kenseto wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>>
>>> The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds.
>>
>> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
>> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
>> no matter what their speed.
>
> We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY simultaneously.
>

Ken, Ken, Ken.

We have a scenario where you have a starting location and an ending 
location, with an odometer reading for the trip. There is one hypothesis 
(A) that says the reading will depend on the speed. There is another 
hypothesis (B) that says the reading will not depend on the speed but it 
does depend on path. So you want to devise a test to see which 
hypothesis is right. This is what is called science.

One way to test hypothesis A is to arrange a trip between the two 
locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the speed. In this 
case, you travel the same route twice, with different speeds, and see if 
the odometer changes.

One way to test hypothesis B is to arrange a trip between the two 
locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the path. In this case, 
you travel different routes, with the speed the same, and see if the 
odometer changes.

Doing an experiment where you change BOTH the route and the speed 
doesn't tell you which variable the odometer reading depends on. It 
would be a poorly designed experiment, which any 7th grader would tell you.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384273

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 05:14 -0700
Message-ID<df083d95-83af-4baf-9396-a1bb883821d4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384222
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:12:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 5/25/2016 3:44 PM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> >>
> >>> The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds.
> >>
> >> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
> >> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
> >> no matter what their speed.
> >
> > We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY simultaneously.
> >
> 
> Ken, Ken, Ken.
> 
> We have a scenario where you have a starting location and an ending 
> location, with an odometer reading for the trip. There is one hypothesis 
> (A) that says the reading will depend on the speed. There is another 
> hypothesis (B) that says the reading will not depend on the speed but it 
> does depend on path. So you want to devise a test to see which 
> hypothesis is right. This is what is called science.

If two cars depart from Chicago simultaneously and arrive at NY simultaneously the difference in odometer readings is due to their difference in speeds and difference in path-lengths.


> 
> One way to test hypothesis A is to arrange a trip between the two 
> locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the speed. In this 
> case, you travel the same route twice, with different speeds, and see if 
> the odometer changes.
> 
> One way to test hypothesis B is to arrange a trip between the two 
> locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the path. In this case, 
> you travel different routes, with the speed the same, and see if the 
> odometer changes.
> 
> Doing an experiment where you change BOTH the route and the speed 
> doesn't tell you which variable the odometer reading depends on. It 
> would be a poorly designed experiment, which any 7th grader would tell you.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384276

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 09:00 -0500
Message-ID<ni6vil$12fh$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384273
On 5/26/2016 7:14 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:12:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 5/25/2016 3:44 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds.
>>>>
>>>> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
>>>> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
>>>> no matter what their speed.
>>>
>>> We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY simultaneously.
>>>
>>
>> Ken, Ken, Ken.
>>
>> We have a scenario where you have a starting location and an ending
>> location, with an odometer reading for the trip. There is one hypothesis
>> (A) that says the reading will depend on the speed. There is another
>> hypothesis (B) that says the reading will not depend on the speed but it
>> does depend on path. So you want to devise a test to see which
>> hypothesis is right. This is what is called science.
>
> If two cars depart from Chicago simultaneously and arrive at NY simultaneously the
> difference in odometer readings is due to their difference in speeds and difference
> in path-lengths.

You don't know that. You have to TEST it with experiment. That's what is 
called science. You make a test, changing only ONE of the variables, not 
both, to determine which one the odometer depends on.

>
>
>>
>> One way to test hypothesis A is to arrange a trip between the two
>> locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the speed. In this
>> case, you travel the same route twice, with different speeds, and see if
>> the odometer changes.
>>
>> One way to test hypothesis B is to arrange a trip between the two
>> locations, where the ONLY variable you change is the path. In this case,
>> you travel different routes, with the speed the same, and see if the
>> odometer changes.
>>
>> Doing an experiment where you change BOTH the route and the speed
>> doesn't tell you which variable the odometer reading depends on. It
>> would be a poorly designed experiment, which any 7th grader would tell you.
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384234

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-05-25 22:45 +0000
Message-ID<ni59uq$tm3$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#384212
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>> 
>> > The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. 
>> 
>> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
>> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
>> no matter what their speed.

>We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY 
>simultaneously.

What difference does that make? Odometers measure distance, not speed.

We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph.  When it reaches its
destination, its odometer has a certain value.

We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car,
except it travels at 100 mph.  When it reaches its destination, will its
odometer measure the same as that of the first car?  Why or why not?

We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different
speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the
same as that of the first car?  Why or why not?

You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different 
speeds."  Here we have many different cars all following the same path at 
different speeds.  Do you actually claim the odometer values will be 
different due to the different speeds?

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#384275

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 06:16 -0700
Message-ID<ddbde368-a249-4f7a-bab4-a96089cb5ba1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384234
On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> > The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. 
> >> 
> >> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed.
> >> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same,
> >> no matter what their speed.
> 
> >We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY 
> >simultaneously.
> 
> What difference does that make? Odometers measure distance, not speed.
> 
> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph.  When it reaches its
> destination, its odometer has a certain value.
> 
> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car,
> except it travels at 100 mph.  When it reaches its destination, will its
> odometer measure the same as that of the first car?  Why or why not?
> 
> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different
> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the
> same as that of the first car?  Why or why not?
> 
> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different 
> speeds."  Here we have many different cars all following the same path at 
> different speeds.  Do you actually claim the odometer values will be 
> different due to the different speeds?

Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings when they meet again is due to their different speeds.

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#384278

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 09:23 -0500
Message-ID<ni70sd$14qm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384275
On 5/26/2016 8:16 AM, kenseto wrote:
> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings when
> they meet again is due to their different speeds.

So let's get this straight.
If I travel from Chicago to NY by the SAME route at different speeds, 
the different speeds will have NO EFFECT on the odometer reading, 
because I'll get the same odometer reading both times.
But if I travel from Chicago to NY by DIFFERENT ROUTES at different 
speeds, the different speeds now suddenly magically have an effect on 
the odometer reading, and that's why I get different values on the two 
trips.
That's what you're saying, Ken?


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384284

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 08:19 -0700
Message-ID<d8681a95-b0ec-4b5f-9e4a-f38d33280854@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384278
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:23:12 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 5/26/2016 8:16 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings when
> > they meet again is due to their different speeds.
> 
> So let's get this straight.
> If I travel from Chicago to NY by the SAME route at different speeds, 
> the different speeds will have NO EFFECT on the odometer reading, 
> because I'll get the same odometer reading both times.

Then you are outside of our discussion. Why? Because the cars would not be able to arrive at NY simultaneously. 

> But if I travel from Chicago to NY by DIFFERENT ROUTES at different 
> speeds, the different speeds now suddenly magically have an effect on 
> the odometer reading, and that's why I get different values on the two 
> trips.
> That's what you're saying, Ken?

Different speeds will allow the cars to arrive at NY simultaneously and allow you to compare the rates of accumulating mileage and then allow you to determine the speed of each car if the route length is known. Gee you are stupid.

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#384286

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-05-26 10:25 -0500
Message-ID<ni74gv$1aof$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#384284
On 5/26/2016 10:19 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:23:12 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 5/26/2016 8:16 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings when
>>> they meet again is due to their different speeds.
>>
>> So let's get this straight.
>> If I travel from Chicago to NY by the SAME route at different speeds,
>> the different speeds will have NO EFFECT on the odometer reading,
>> because I'll get the same odometer reading both times.
>
> Then you are outside of our discussion. Why? Because the cars would not be able to arrive
> at NY simultaneously.
>
>> But if I travel from Chicago to NY by DIFFERENT ROUTES at different
>> speeds, the different speeds now suddenly magically have an effect on
>> the odometer reading, and that's why I get different values on the two
>> trips.
>> That's what you're saying, Ken?
>
> Different speeds will allow the cars to arrive at NY simultaneously and allow you to
> compare the rates of accumulating mileage and then allow you to determine the speed of
> each car if the route length is known. Gee you are stupid.
>

I will let this post stand as a monument to Setoism and a demonstration 
of high-density substances.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#384291

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-05-26 09:19 -0700
Message-ID<2aa4373e-8d58-4147-b37a-288183ae3e74@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#384284
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:19:54 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:23:12 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > On 5/26/2016 8:16 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > > Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings when
> > > they meet again is due to their different speeds.
> > 
> > So let's get this straight.
> > If I travel from Chicago to NY by the SAME route at different speeds, 
> > the different speeds will have NO EFFECT on the odometer reading, 
> > because I'll get the same odometer reading both times.
> 
> Then you are outside of our discussion. Why? Because the cars would not be able to arrive at NY simultaneously. 
> 
> > But if I travel from Chicago to NY by DIFFERENT ROUTES at different 
> > speeds, the different speeds now suddenly magically have an effect on 
> > the odometer reading, and that's why I get different values on the two 
> > trips.
> > That's what you're saying, Ken?
> 
> Different speeds will allow the cars to arrive at NY simultaneously and allow you to compare the rates of accumulating mileage and then allow you to determine the speed of each car if the route length is known. Gee you are stupid.

The accumulated mileage and route length for each car are known....no need for calculation. The different speed in combination with the known path-lengths are the cause of the difference in odometer readings.

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