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How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

Started by	Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com>
First post	2023-08-24 20:15 -0700
Last post	2023-09-06 07:20 +0200
Articles	20 on this page of 77 — 15 participants

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#618835 — How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

From	Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-24 20:15 -0700
Subject	How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?
Message-ID	<04ff2fde-8e36-4746-961a-311f8a45ebb7n@googlegroups.com>

By being indoctrinated in an ideology.

Why can't they defend that with reason?

Because they weren't persuaded by reason.

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#618844

From	Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-24 22:58 -0700
Message-ID	<50265e99-1836-46bb-ae0e-d2dcf29973a4n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618835

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 12:15:24 AM UTC-3, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> 
> Why can't they defend that with reason? 
> 
> Because they weren't persuaded by reason.

Intelligent people (professionals) live by their reputation among peers.

If there is a trend that take years to be developed, they have to adapt and follow the professional herd, or they will be labeled as weird,
eccentric, neurotic or similar.

If, in 2023, a professional persist in using a 2G phone without any app (SMS is part of 2G), and reject any social media app, will be
labeled as told. So, they have to get a smartphone and accept selfies, even when he does not use current apps. They have to survive.

If, in 2023, any professional active in the field of physics or astronomy let know that he rejects relativity, is done within peers that have
been assimilated by the trend.

At any case, such person thinks that he have to survive within peers, even when he's waiting being retired to canalize all his hate on the
matter by writing a blog or similar. Now, he's safe as no retaliations will affect him.

He was not indoctrinated in any way. He only pretended to, so he protected his sources of incomes and privileges.

A similar thing with anyone (Volney) waiting to come out of the closet. Most will do close to retirement. He pretended to be straight:
wife, kids, etc.  But once he feel safe of repudiation, will come out with dancing colors.

Same with FAKE RELATIVISTS (more than 90%). Nothing to lose pretending, but much to gain.

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#618850

From	JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 02:38 -0700
Message-ID	<df2dae50-4bf5-435c-bf92-715659424be3n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618844

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 10:58:58 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 12:15:24 AM UTC-3, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> > 
> > Why can't they defend that with reason? 
> > 
> > Because they weren't persuaded by reason.
> >
> Intelligent people (professionals) live by their reputation among peers. 

There we go again. The obligatory Hollywood cabbalah theory of
physics.

> If there is a trend that take years to be developed, they have to adapt and follow the professional herd, or they will be labeled as weird, 
> eccentric, neurotic or similar.

Oh stop it. It's getting really boring. Can't you guys come up with
something more original? That line about peer pressure about
relativity is as old as this NG (since +/-1995).

If you don't understand something, don't assume that everyone else is
an idiot. Perhaps this will be a shattering revelation for you but it's
quite possible that the problem is you, not relativity. Ever thought
of that? Ever occurred to you that if you cannot figure something out,
then perhaps it's you who is at fault? 

--
Jan

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#618878

From	Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 13:22 -0700
Message-ID	<efbe0aa7-c757-44fc-8730-a20dffcfd50cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618844

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 10:58:58 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 12:15:24 AM UTC-3, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> > 
> > Why can't they defend that with reason? 
> > 
> > Because they weren't persuaded by reason.
> Intelligent people (professionals) live by their reputation among peers. 
> 
> If there is a trend that take years to be developed, they have to adapt and follow the professional herd, or they will be labeled as weird, 
> eccentric, neurotic or similar. 
> 
> If, in 2023, a professional persist in using a 2G phone without any app (SMS is part of 2G), and reject any social media app, will be 
> labeled as told. So, they have to get a smartphone and accept selfies, even when he does not use current apps. They have to survive. 
> 
> If, in 2023, any professional active in the field of physics or astronomy let know that he rejects relativity, is done within peers that have 
> been assimilated by the trend. 
> 
> At any case, such person thinks that he have to survive within peers, even when he's waiting being retired to canalize all his hate on the 
> matter by writing a blog or similar. Now, he's safe as no retaliations will affect him. 
> 
> He was not indoctrinated in any way. He only pretended to, so he protected his sources of incomes and privileges. 
> 
> A similar thing with anyone (Volney) waiting to come out of the closet. Most will do close to retirement. He pretended to be straight: 
> wife, kids, etc. But once he feel safe of repudiation, will come out with dancing colors. 
> 
> Same with FAKE RELATIVISTS (more than 90%). Nothing to lose pretending, but much to gain.
It is often pointed out that key advances are often made either by people who are so successful they can afford risks (e.g. Norman Lockyer solar physicist pioneering archaeoastronomy) or by people lacking accomplishments having little to risk.

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#618846

From	Volney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date	2023-08-25 02:09 -0400
Message-ID	<uc9gid$3srdc$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#618835

On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> By being indoctrinated in an ideology.

Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
"brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.

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#618848

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-24 23:14 -0700
Message-ID	<2885a5fd-559a-47ed-bdb9-5949c82986d7n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618846

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 08:09:21 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.

Mere facts, stupid Mike.

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#618870

From	Volney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date	2023-08-25 14:04 -0400
Message-ID	<ucaqfq$4ud7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#618848

On 8/25/2023 2:14 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 08:09:21 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
>> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
>> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
>> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers
>> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
> 
> Mere facts, stupid Mike.
> 
It would be nice if you supplied more facts for your claims.

Correction: It would be nice if you supplied *any* facts.

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#618921

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 22:28 -0700
Message-ID	<a0419129-9bb9-4761-b724-df9f5a47be0cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618870

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 20:04:45 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 8/25/2023 2:14 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 08:09:21 UTC+2, Volney wrote: 
> >> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> >> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> >> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> >> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein. 
> > 
> > Mere facts, stupid Mike. 
> >
> It would be nice if you supplied more facts for your claims. 

The facts are - physicists (and its doggies, of course, as well)
are indoctrinated and brainwashed by theeir insane cult
of relativity. You're free, of course, to deny the facts.
You're doing it constantly.

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#618851

From	JanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 02:41 -0700
Message-ID	<f4effdd9-0cd7-4fb8-b9a1-1ecb4d66daf9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618846

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 

Yes, that's standard. The other obligatory term used by cranks in
this context is "regurgitate", as in: "physicists only regurgitate what
they've been taught", this is supposed to prove the superiority of ignorance.

We had a guy here once who claimed that because he could not do
any mathematics, it made his physics intuition superior to that of
professional physicists.

Those people are characters straight from Monty Python sketches.

--
Jan

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#618853

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 02:52 -0700
Message-ID	<9b259695-02c8-46de-94d3-de6078f4a64fn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618851

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 11:41:14 UTC+2, JanPB wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: 
> > On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > > By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> > Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
> Yes, that's standard.

Of course, stupidity, indoctrination, brainwashing cults - happen.
But they can only happen to ordinary mortal worms, could
never happen to you, right, poor halfbrain?

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#618871

From	Volney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date	2023-08-25 14:06 -0400
Message-ID	<ucaqjn$4ud7$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#618851

On 8/25/2023 5:41 AM, JanPB wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
>> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
> 
> Yes, that's standard. The other obligatory term used by cranks in
> this context is "regurgitate", as in: "physicists only regurgitate what
> they've been taught", this is supposed to prove the superiority of ignorance.
> 
> We had a guy here once who claimed that because he could not do
> any mathematics, it made his physics intuition superior to that of
> professional physicists.

Ken Seto is similar. He can't do any math but won't admit it. He does 
claim his "physics" is better than standard because it has no math.
> 
> Those people are characters straight from Monty Python sketches.
> 
So true!

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#618860

From	Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 07:00 -0700
Message-ID	<2ad7732d-8824-4884-92c6-fe3c8b03d854n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618846

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.

So, Crossen is driving home one day, on the freeway. His wife calls his cell phone and tells him to be careful because she heard on the news that there was someone out there driving the wrong way on that freeway... and he says... "there is not just one person, there are hundreds of them driving the wrong way"...

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#618868

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 10:38 -0700
Message-ID	<b147985f-89db-446e-affb-b1a045fc78a7n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618860

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 16:00:42 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> > On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > > By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> > Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> > "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> > of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
> So, Crossen is driving home one day, on the freeway. His wife calls his cell phone and tells him to be careful because she heard on the news that there was someone out there driving the wrong way on that freeway... and he says... "there is not just one person, there are hundreds of them driving the wrong way"...

Hundreds of stupid cranks ignoring the one and only
correct way (even if inconsistent a little bit) shown us 
by Giant Guru and his obedient  minion Al

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#618884

From	Volney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date	2023-08-25 16:45 -0400
Message-ID	<ucb3tt$6mg7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#618868

On 8/25/2023 1:38 PM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 16:00:42 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
>>> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>>> By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
>>> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
>>> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers
>>> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
>> So, Crossen is driving home one day, on the freeway. His wife calls his cell phone and tells him to be careful because she heard on the news that there was someone out there driving the wrong way on that freeway... and he says... "there is not just one person, there are hundreds of them driving the wrong way"...
> 
> Hundreds of stupid cranks ignoring the one and only
> correct way (even if inconsistent a little bit) shown us
> by Giant Guru and his obedient  minion Al

Obviously our janitor didn't get the joke. Especially since he makes his 
"side" look bad.

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#618879

From	Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-25 13:28 -0700
Message-ID	<201d5492-84ab-4453-8456-c5c51e2e2a0cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#618860

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 7:00:42 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:09:21 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
> > On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > > By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> > Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> > "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> > of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
> So, Crossen is driving home one day, on the freeway. His wife calls his cell phone and tells him to be careful because she heard on the news that there was someone out there driving the wrong way on that freeway... and he says... "there is not just one person, there are hundreds of them driving the wrong way"...
Paul would use the relativity velocity addition formula to explain his collision with the other lane was at zero mph: u= u' = v/ 1 + u'v/c^2 THIS MATHEMATICAL LIE NEGATES ALL RELATIVE VELOCITY.

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#619095 — Re: How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date	2023-08-28 08:44 +0200
Subject	Re: How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?
Message-ID	<kl2tv8F7rrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#618846

Am 25.08.2023 um 08:09 schrieb Volney:
> On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>> By being indoctrinated in an ideology.
>
> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers
> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
>

I had a dream how this works:

I dreamt of people, who where forced to do stupid things, which are 
dangerous and annoying.

They had a choice:
a)reject the disgusting stuff and get expelled
b)do stupid things and obey and get promoted.

Now the newbies of kind b) get tasks, which are VERY annoying and hence 
they would like to leave (what is prohibited) or to raise in the ranks.

Only the latter is an option, hence they swallow their disgust and anger 
and run with the herd.

Once they are 'well done', they get promoted and are now ready to kick 
those in the butt, who are new.

After practicing this enough and well, they get a promotion.

Now their new taks is to do nasty things like telling complete bullshit 
to the public.

Once they succeede, they get promoted again and raise to the next level.

There they get an advertising agency, for instance, or a newspaper or 
other means of mass manipulation and enough money to promote the 
bullshit from the levels below.

TH

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#619099

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-27 23:59 -0700
Message-ID	<014551a1-c391-4489-b78b-52d50db6e9ffn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#619095

On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 08:42:52 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 25.08.2023 um 08:09 schrieb Volney:
> > On 8/24/2023 11:15 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >> By being indoctrinated in an ideology. 
> >
> > Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated", 
> > "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers 
> > of a "religion" worshiping Einstein. 
> > 
> 
> I had a dream how this works: 
> 
> I dreamt of people, who where forced to do stupid things, which are 
> dangerous and annoying. 
> 
> They had a choice: 
> a)reject the disgusting stuff and get expelled 
> b)do stupid things and obey and get promoted. 
> 
> Now the newbies of kind b) get tasks, which are VERY annoying and hence 
> they would like to leave (what is prohibited) or to raise in the ranks. 
> 
> Only the latter is an option, hence they swallow their disgust and anger 
> and run with the herd. 
> 
> Once they are 'well done', they get promoted and are now ready to kick 
> those in the butt, who are new. 
> 
> After practicing this enough and well, they get a promotion. 
> 
> Now their new taks is to do nasty things like telling complete bullshit 
> to the public. 
> 
> Once they succeede, they get promoted again and raise to the next level. 
> 
> There they get an advertising agency, for instance, or a newspaper or 
> other means of mass manipulation and enough money to promote the 
> bullshit from the levels below. 

Bullshit, sorry, that's not how a cult works.

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#619163

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date	2023-08-29 08:44 +0200
Message-ID	<kl5ic1FeqtvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#619099

Am 28.08.2023 um 08:59 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:

>>> Crackpot evidence #2341: Claiming all physicists are "indoctrinated",
>>> "brainwashed", followers of a "cult of relativity" or at least followers
>>> of a "religion" worshiping Einstein.
>>>
>>
>> I had a dream how this works:
>>
>> I dreamt of people, who where forced to do stupid things, which are
>> dangerous and annoying.
>>
>> They had a choice:
>> a)reject the disgusting stuff and get expelled
>> b)do stupid things and obey and get promoted.
>>
>> Now the newbies of kind b) get tasks, which are VERY annoying and hence
>> they would like to leave (what is prohibited) or to raise in the ranks.
>>
>> Only the latter is an option, hence they swallow their disgust and anger
>> and run with the herd.
>>
>> Once they are 'well done', they get promoted and are now ready to kick
>> those in the butt, who are new.
>>
>> After practicing this enough and well, they get a promotion.
>>
>> Now their new taks is to do nasty things like telling complete bullshit
>> to the public.
>>
>> Once they succeede, they get promoted again and raise to the next level.
>>
>> There they get an advertising agency, for instance, or a newspaper or
>> other means of mass manipulation and enough money to promote the
>> bullshit from the levels below.
>
> Bullshit, sorry, that's not how a cult works.
>

How do you know?

I thought, that system would be kind of 'fool-proof' and would use, what 
is common among people.

If would provide an endless stream of usable itiots, which could be 
exploited by all means possible.


Now we only need to search for signs of bullshit with reputation, which 
remained in their position of high reputation since then.

With this we could reconstruct the position of the bullshit artist in 
the ranks and files of such a system at the time in question.


TH

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#619275

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date	2023-08-31 08:21 +0200
Message-ID	<klapnfFa61bU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#619163

Am 29.08.2023 um 08:44 schrieb Thomas Heger:
>> Bullshit, sorry, that's not how a cult works.
>>
>
> How do you know?
>
> I thought, that system would be kind of 'fool-proof' and would use, what
> is common among people.

 From my own experience I would say:

people just love to be accepted into a restricted club!


Usually people do all they can to become member of something exclusive 
and really prestigious.


You can see this all over the place, because this is actually the 
reason, why you have to wait a long time in a cue at same sort of entrence.

And without a cue waiting, you would not feel priviledged, if you can 
walk right into this place.

Without waiting a long time, you would much less feel priviledged, if 
you are actually inside.

This trick is used extensively in many cases for otherwise totally 
boring places like old warehouses, where very load music plays.


TH

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#619277

From	Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date	2023-08-30 23:52 -0700
Message-ID	<c366ef15-74d3-4f74-b9e7-ee34b136661an@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#619275

On Thursday, 31 August 2023 at 08:19:30 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 29.08.2023 um 08:44 schrieb Thomas Heger: 
> >> Bullshit, sorry, that's not how a cult works. 
> >> 
> > 
> > How do you know? 
> > 
> > I thought, that system would be kind of 'fool-proof' and would use, what 
> > is common among people.
> From my own experience I would say: 
> 
> people just love to be accepted into a restricted club! 

The knights of The Shit are free of weeknesses of
ordinary mortal worms.

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How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

Contents

#618835 — How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

#618844

#618850

#618878

#618846

#618848

#618870

#618921

#618851

#618853

#618871

#618860

#618868

#618884

#618879

#619095 — Re: How can highly intelligent people wind up believing foolish things?

#619099

#619163

#619275

#619277