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Cordial Invitation to all Relativists.

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  Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 11:42 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-11 18:48 +0000
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:04 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:20 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 12:00 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 12:19 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 12:26 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-11 21:32 +0200
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:06 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-11 16:46 -0500
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-12 12:07 +0200
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-12 09:52 +0200
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 13:28 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:39 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 14:31 -0700
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 14:39 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:44 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 15:24 -0700
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 16:10 -0700
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 16:35 -0700
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-11 22:20 -0400
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 20:10 -0700
                              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-12 12:31 -0400
                                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:12 -0700
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 20:21 -0700
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 21:24 -0700
                              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 21:41 -0700
                                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-12 15:34 -0400
                              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 22:05 -0700
                                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 22:20 -0700
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-16 20:43 +0200
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-16 12:29 -0700
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-16 12:45 -0700
                              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-16 22:34 +0200
                                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-16 13:45 -0700
                                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 17:55 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-11 17:28 -0500
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-13 13:03 +0200
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 20:52 -0700
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 20:57 -0700
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 21:07 -0700
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 21:31 -0700
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-14 07:16 -0700
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-14 10:30 +0200
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 15:33 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-12 12:53 +0200
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 04:12 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-12 07:53 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-12 08:07 -0700
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:04 +0200
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 10:57 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 10:27 +0200
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-13 10:34 +0200
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 03:49 -0700
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-08-13 15:17 +0200
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0000
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 17:21 +0200
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:35 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 16:08 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 16:43 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 16:53 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-11 16:55 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Bill <davos2329@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 17:45 -0700
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 20:47 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Bill <davos2329@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 15:51 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-14 16:00 -0700
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Bill <davos2329@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 23:50 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-15 01:02 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-15 17:57 -0400
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-15 15:34 -0700
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-15 22:20 -0400
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-16 10:25 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-08-12 10:54 +0300
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 06:46 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-12 22:44 +1000
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 09:05 -0500
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 07:23 -0700
        Cretin crank Richard Hertz perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:44 -0700
          Re: Cretin crank Richard Hertz perseveres Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 09:39 -0700
            Re: Cretin crank Richard Hertz perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 10:02 -0700
            Re: Cretin crank Richard Hertz perseveres Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:12 -0700
            Re: Cretin crank Richard Hertz perseveres Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-12 17:14 -0400
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:12 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 15:21 -0500
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 13:33 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 16:21 -0500
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Malvin Bastian <ntit@iissiniv.ba> - 2023-08-12 21:25 +0000
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:01 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 17:34 -0500
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Americo Babanov <oboe@airmocov.vo> - 2023-08-12 20:39 +0000
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-12 17:09 -0400
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Justine Virvitsiotti <stvt@ijistiri.ss> - 2023-08-12 21:22 +0000
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 16:43 -0500
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 16:49 -0500
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-13 16:57 -0400
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Leopoldo Amet-Han <aleh@--ao---t.oe> - 2023-08-13 21:43 +0000
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-13 17:43 -0500
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-13 19:09 -0500
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 18:17 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 18:50 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 22:00 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-14 00:20 -0500
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 22:31 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-14 11:05 -0400
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-14 11:42 -0500
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-14 10:34 -0700
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 22:02 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 09:43 -0500
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-14 10:52 -0400
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 08:26 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:31 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-08-13 04:19 +0200
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 22:43 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:12 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 12:16 -0700
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 14:25 -0500
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maria Vanag <aavi@raaiavnr.ga> - 2023-08-12 19:49 +0000
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 17:28 -0500
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 12:48 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 15:24 -0500
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 13:33 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-08-12 16:46 -0500
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:02 -0700
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 18:23 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 18:50 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 20:13 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 21:20 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 21:21 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 20:48 -0700
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 20:55 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:03 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:09 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 15:10 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 17:36 -0500
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 13:38 -0700
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 13:42 -0700
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-12 17:39 -0500
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 18:20 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 20:33 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 10:20 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:12 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 18:17 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 12:56 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 13:02 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-13 20:37 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 12:51 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 10:24 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 11:49 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 20:50 +0200
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 12:03 -0700
          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-13 15:17 -0400
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 12:56 -0700
              Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-14 19:01 -0400
                Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 10:46 -0700
                  Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-15 22:22 -0400
                    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 20:18 -0700
                      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-16 10:37 -0400
                        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 18:23 +0200
                          Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 12:57 -0700
                            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-16 21:16 -0500
            Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-13 18:51 -0500
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 15:02 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.c.sirius@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 10:51 -0700
        Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 15:19 -0700
      Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. Reign Derkach <rgae@eirrkrag.re> - 2023-08-16 10:57 +0000
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 15:27 -0700
    Re: Cordial Invitation to all Relativists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-16 22:11 +0200

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#617638

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 03:50:47 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> > > I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics. 
> > Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the 
> > question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer.
> The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way 

Is the brightest radio waves source known.

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#617640

On 8/13/2023 8:50 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> 
>>> I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics.
>> Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the
>> question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer.
> 
> The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way has a calculated mass of about 4 million solar masses.
> Doesn't that strongly suggest that this mass is actual matter? Or, can the proposed *dark matter* or *dark energy*
> theory be invoked?

Is "dark matter" actually "matter" of the sort we've become accustomed
to considering when the term is used? Or could it be something else
altogether. That's another source of mass, at least mathematically
described, that we cannot see. So we know something is up. We call it
"dark matter" because we don't know what it is other than in terms
of its effects.

> Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road in cosmology, and it is quite mysterious... but I'll wait for the professionals to
> chime in someday rather than make something up that sounds good :>)

Legitimate questions are always good. The problem with crank "questions" 
is that they invariably are simply pretextual.
> I *know* what I don't know, which I cannot say is the case very often here!

Exactly the same here!

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#617641

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 07:20:44 UTC+2, whodat wrote:
> On 8/13/2023 8:50 PM, Paul Alsing wrote: 
> > On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote: 
> > 
> >>> I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics. 
> >> Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the 
> >> question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer. 
> > 
> > The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way has a calculated mass of about 4 million solar masses. 
> > Doesn't that strongly suggest that this mass is actual matter? Or, can the proposed *dark matter* or *dark energy* 
> > theory be invoked?
> Is "dark matter" actually "matter" of the sort we've become accustomed 
> to considering when the term is used? Or could it be something else 
> altogether. That's another source of mass, at least mathematically 
> described, that we cannot see. So we know something is up. We call it 
> "dark matter" because we don't know what it is other than in terms 
> of its effects.

Nope. Your precious theory doesmt fit the observations, so 
you've invited invisible massive  dwarves to fix it.

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#617663

On 8/13/2023 9:50 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> 
>>> I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics.
>> Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the
>> question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer.
> 
> The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way has a calculated mass of about 4 million solar masses.
> Doesn't that strongly suggest that this mass is actual matter? Or, can the proposed *dark matter* or *dark energy*
> theory be invoked?

Tom's reply is the effects are from the ordinary infalling mass in the 
past rather than from whatever is inside the BH, which we can never 
know. And the concept of gravity "escaping" the BH while nothing else 
can is wrong. But I cannot fully wrap my head around this yet. Compare 
this to that of someone like Mitch, who doesn't comprehend so proclaims 
it to be wrong rather than trying to learn.
> 
> Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road in cosmology, and it is quite mysterious... but I'll wait for the professionals to
> chime in someday rather than make something up that sounds good :>)
> 
> I *know* what I don't know, which I cannot say is the case very often here!

Same here, which is why I asked Tom, someone who appears to really know 
this stuff rather than inventing answers like cranks do.

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#617681

On 8/14/2023 10:05 AM, Volney wrote:
> On 8/13/2023 9:50 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics.
>>> Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the
>>> question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer.
>>
>> The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way has a 
>> calculated mass of about 4 million solar masses.
>> Doesn't that strongly suggest that this mass is actual matter? Or, can 
>> the proposed *dark matter* or *dark energy*
>> theory be invoked?
> 
> Tom's reply is the effects are from the ordinary infalling mass in the 
> past rather than from whatever is inside the BH, which we can never 
> know. And the concept of gravity "escaping" the BH while nothing else 
> can is wrong. But I cannot fully wrap my head around this yet. Compare 
> this to that of someone like Mitch, who doesn't comprehend so proclaims 
> it to be wrong rather than trying to learn.
>>
>> Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road in cosmology, and it is 
>> quite mysterious... but I'll wait for the professionals to
>> chime in someday rather than make something up that sounds good :>)
>>
>> I *know* what I don't know, which I cannot say is the case very often 
>> here!
> 
> Same here, which is why I asked Tom, someone who appears to really know 
> this stuff rather than inventing answers like cranks do.

Gravity is different in that it does not play a direct role in the
e=mc^2 paradigm. What role that might have to play is better left
to my betters.

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#617691

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:42:56 AM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
> On 8/14/2023 10:05 AM, Volney wrote: 
> > On 8/13/2023 9:50 PM, Paul Alsing wrote: 
> >> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 5:09:47 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote: 
> >> 
> >>>> I'm just trying to understand a difficult part of this type of physics. 
> >>> Given the impossibility of seeing the inside of a black hole, the 
> >>> question becomes, is there actually any matter in there any longer. 
> >> 
> >> The proposed black hole at the center of the Milky Way has a 
> >> calculated mass of about 4 million solar masses. 
> >> Doesn't that strongly suggest that this mass is actual matter? Or, can 
> >> the proposed *dark matter* or *dark energy* 
> >> theory be invoked? 
> > 
> > Tom's reply is the effects are from the ordinary infalling mass in the 
> > past rather than from whatever is inside the BH, which we can never 
> > know. And the concept of gravity "escaping" the BH while nothing else 
> > can is wrong. But I cannot fully wrap my head around this yet. Compare 
> > this to that of someone like Mitch, who doesn't comprehend so proclaims 
> > it to be wrong rather than trying to learn. 
> >> 
> >> Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road in cosmology, and it is 
> >> quite mysterious... but I'll wait for the professionals to 
> >> chime in someday rather than make something up that sounds good :>) 
> >> 
> >> I *know* what I don't know, which I cannot say is the case very often 
> >> here! 
> > 
> > Same here, which is why I asked Tom, someone who appears to really know 
> > this stuff rather than inventing answers like cranks do.
> Gravity is different in that it does not play a direct role in the 
> e=mc^2 paradigm. What role that might have to play is better left 
> to my betters.
Glad to oblige, whodat.  Feel free to ring me on the Bat Phone at any time.

When it comes to E=mc(two-ed) Einstein is feeling around in the dark.  The most famous equation in history absolutely depends on gamma for its derivation.  This it the opening I need.  More later....

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#617639

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 22:57:14 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 5:43 PM, Tom Roberts wrote: 
> > On 8/12/23 4:09 PM, Volney wrote: 
> >> What is the best way to "explain" how gravitational "force" (and 
> >> electric charge) can "escape" a black hole if the speed of light and 
> >> gravity are both c? 
> > 
> > Do not mention "escape", as that simply does not apply in GR. 
> > 
> > In GR, gravity is merely one aspect of spacetime curvature, so you are 
> > really asking: how does spacetime curvature outside a black hole reflect 
> > the presence of the black hole? The answer is that spacetime curvature 
> > anywhere at a given time depends on the curvature there an infinitesimal 
> > time previous, plus effects from matter. For just a black hole, there is 
> > no matter to consider. For a black hole formed by an object's collapse, 
> > one can trace the curvature back in time to just before the black hole 
> > formed, and the collapsing matter generates the curvature, without any 
> > question of crossing a horizon. The curvature outside the newly-formed 
> > horizon propagates essentially unchanged forward in time to the time in 
> > question. For a primordial black hole, the spacetime curvature can be 
> > traced back infinitely far. 
> > 
> > So gravity does not "escape from a black hole" because it is already 
> > present outside the horizon. Similarly for the effects of electric charge. 
> 
> I'm still confused. The black hole exhibits effects because there was a 


You're confused, stupid Mike, because you're treating
seriously inconsistent mumble of your idiot gurus.
And, of course, you're  also inventing your own 
inconsistent mumble. Do you still believe that 
9 192 631 770  ISO idiocy is some "Newton mode"? 
You're such an amazing idiot,  stupid Mike, even 
considering the standards of your moronic religion.

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#617449

On 8/12/2023 9:05 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to
>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
> 
> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your posts 
> around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that.
> 
> Tom Roberts

The first problem for *many* of these guys is they think
they can learn physics from the internet without the guidance
of a qualified teacher. Going in they have no idea which web
pages or postings are legitimate and which are created by a
crank. pvalev is a good example for posted information that
attracts the ignorant.

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#617661

On 8/12/2023 10:43 AM, whodat wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 9:05 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to
>>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
>>
>> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
>> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, 
>> you would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your 
>> posts around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that.

> The first problem for *many* of these guys is they think
> they can learn physics from the internet without the guidance
> of a qualified teacher. Going in they have no idea which web
> pages or postings are legitimate and which are created by a
> crank. pvalev is a good example for posted information that
> attracts the ignorant.
> 
Yes I am rather amused how cranks are attracted to other cranks. To me 
it's obvious Valev's posts are all crackpot posts. Yet cranks are drawn 
to Valev's posts like flies are drawn to shit. Probably for the same 
reason, too.

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#617664

On Monday, 14 August 2023 at 16:52:39 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 10:43 AM, whodat wrote: 
> > On 8/12/2023 9:05 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> >> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> >>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c. 
> >>
> >> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> >> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, 
> >> you would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your 
> >> posts around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that.
> > The first problem for *many* of these guys is they think 
> > they can learn physics from the internet without the guidance 
> > of a qualified teacher. Going in they have no idea which web 
> > pages or postings are legitimate and which are created by a 
> > crank. pvalev is a good example for posted information that 
> > attracts the ignorant. 
> > 
> Yes I am rather amused how cranks are attracted to other cranks. To me 

And do you still believe that  9 192 631 770  ISO idiocy
is some "Newton mode"? You're such an amazing idiot, 
stupid Mike, even considering the standards of your
moronic religion.

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#617452

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 16:06:12 UTC+2, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> > relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> would have to learn basic physics and math. 

And, speaking of math, it's always good to remind that your
idiot guru has announced its oldest, very important and
successful part false, as it didn't want to fit his Holy
Postulates.

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#617536

Demented old Polish fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 16:06:12 UTC+2, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to
>>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
>> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General
>> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you
>> would have to learn basic physics and math.
> 
> And, speaking of math, it's always good to remind that your
> idiot guru has announced its oldest, very important and
> successful part false, as it didn't want to fit his Holy
> Postulates.

...says the man that cannot spot the difference between a function and
an application in Bourbaki's work.

LOL. You are a joke Maciej!

A sad, pathetic one.

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#617545

On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 04:19:08 UTC+2, Python wrote:
> Demented old Polish fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 16:06:12 UTC+2, Tom Roberts wrote:
> >> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> >>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> >>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
> >> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General
> >> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> >> would have to learn basic physics and math. 
> >
> > And, speaking of math, it's always good to remind that your 
> > idiot guru has announced its oldest, very important and 
> > successful part false, as it didn't want to fit his Holy 
> > Postulates. 
> 
> ...says the man that cannot spot the difference between a function and 
> an application in Bourbaki's work. 

Well, even if it wasn't another slander it would change
nothing. BTW, have you already read definition 9 and
learnt  the difference between a function and 
an application in Bourbaki's work?

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#617472

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:06:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> > relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your posts 
> around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that. 
> 
> Tom Roberts
It's amusing that GR claims that gravity can escape a black hole when it doesn't achieve escape velocity. Every rational person can understand that to attract anything, gravity would have to escape. The models are then absurd rationalizations for an ignorant pseudoscientific "theory." The stupidity achieved by the high flyers in the scientific world is endless.

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#617475

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:12:23 AM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:06:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Roberts wrote: 
> > On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 

> > > To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> > > relativity, the speed of gravity is c. 

> > "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> > Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> > would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your posts 
> > around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that. 
> > 
> > Tom Roberts

> It's amusing that GR claims that gravity can escape a black hole when it doesn't achieve escape velocity. Every rational person can understand that to attract anything, gravity would have to escape. The models are then absurd rationalizations for an ignorant pseudoscientific "theory." The stupidity achieved by the high flyers in the scientific world is endless.

What is really amusing is that you completely ignore the educated response of a PhD physicist and once again make claims that are contrary to basic physics and math.

If you want to see endless scientific stupidity just look in a mirror!

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#617477

On 8/12/2023 2:16 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:12:23 AM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:06:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> 
>>>> To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to
>>>> relativity, the speed of gravity is c.
> 
>>> "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General
>>> Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you
>>> would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your posts
>>> around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that.
>>>
>>> Tom Roberts
> 
>> It's amusing that GR claims that gravity can escape a black hole when it doesn't achieve escape velocity. Every rational person can understand that to attract anything, gravity would have to escape. The models are then absurd rationalizations for an ignorant pseudoscientific "theory." The stupidity achieved by the high flyers in the scientific world is endless.
> 
> What is really amusing is that you completely ignore the educated response of a PhD physicist and once again make claims that are contrary to basic physics and math.
> 
> If you want to see endless scientific stupidity just look in a mirror!

Laurence is a clear example of a mentally ill individual
attempting to play expert. If he's not medicated, he should
be. If he is medicated his physician needs to put him on
something else because as we can see he's delusional.

I see no advantage to be gained by anyone by continuing to
attempt to engage him re science. He may be more proficient
at sports topics, or perhaps basket weaving.

It seems Laurence and Mitch should become acquainted and engage
on another and keep one another busy.

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#617483

whodat wrote:

> On 8/12/2023 2:16 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
>> If you want to see endless scientific stupidity just look in a mirror!
> 
> Laurence is a clear example of a mentally ill individual attempting to
> play expert. If he's not medicated, he should be. If he is medicated his
> physician needs to put him on something else because as we can see he's
> delusional.

you talk lika fucking homo to your "friend".

Mikhail Podoliak. Coming from Lvov as all Ukrainian Nazis. Unsuccessful 
journalist, studied for paramedic in Belarus, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐧 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐲 
𝐬𝐨𝐦𝐞 𝐲𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐬 𝐚𝐠𝐨. And that guy is "top aid" of Zelensky? LOL

It sounds as if the British government is more interested in Ukraine then 
their own citizens. More money for Ukraine 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐁𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐬𝐡 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐨𝐧𝐞𝐫 𝐜𝐚𝐧’𝐭 𝐚𝐟𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐝 
𝐭𝐨 𝐞𝐚𝐭, heat their home or even take a bath.

𝐁𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐛𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐞 𝐚 𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐫. Long ago.

I heard that a Russian missile killed about 40 western mercenaries today! 
Good riddance!

it's uncanny how the British always endorse the s-cum of 
humanity...ALWAYS. I guess, 𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐝𝐞 𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐬 𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐝𝐞.

𝐙𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐤𝐲_𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐬_‘𝐜𝐥𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐝_𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐤𝐬’_𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡_𝐭𝐨𝐩_𝐁𝐫𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐬𝐡_𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐥𝐬 
https://www.rt.com/russia/581149-zelensky-uk-military-leaders/

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#617518

On 8/12/2023 2:49 PM, Maria Vanag wrote:
> whodat wrote:
> 
>> On 8/12/2023 2:16 PM, Paul Alsing wrote:
>>> If you want to see endless scientific stupidity just look in a mirror!
>>
>> Laurence is a clear example of a mentally ill individual attempting to
>> play expert. If he's not medicated, he should be. If he is medicated his
>> physician needs to put him on something else because as we can see he's
>> delusional.
> 
> you talk lika fucking homo to your "friend".

Are you sharing the same ward in the psychiatric hospitl with Laurence?


<snip the rest of Vanag's delusional posting>

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#617482

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 21:16:19 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 11:12:23 AM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> > On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 7:06:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Roberts wrote: 
> > > On 8/11/23 1:42 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote: 
> 
> > > > To explain how gravity escapes a black hole when, according to 
> > > > relativity, the speed of gravity is c. 
> 
> > > "Gravity" doesn't "escape a black hole". That's not how General 
> > > Relativity models this. Before you can learn how GR does model this, you 
> > > would have to learn basic physics and math. Unfortunately, your posts 
> > > around here show that your are woefully unprepared for that. 
> > > 
> > > Tom Roberts 
> 
> > It's amusing that GR claims that gravity can escape a black hole when it doesn't achieve escape velocity. Every rational person can understand that to attract anything, gravity would have to escape. The models are then absurd rationalizations for an ignorant pseudoscientific "theory." The stupidity achieved by the high flyers in the scientific world is endless.
> What is really amusing is that you completely ignore the educated response of a PhD physicist and once again make claims that are contrary to basic physics and math. 

Speaking of math, it's always good to remind that your
idiot guru has announced its oldest, very important and
successful part false, as it didn't want to fit his Holy
Postulates.

> If you want to see endless scientific stupidity just look in a mirror!

Come on Al, the mumble of your idiot guru wasn't even
consistent and your wise faces change nothing.

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#617491

On 8/12/23 1:12 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> It's amusing that GR claims that gravity can escape a black hole
> when it doesn't achieve escape velocity.

GR makes no such claim. It's just that YOU do not understand this.

> Every rational person can understand that to attract anything, 
> gravity would have to escape.

Not true. Every rational person would know that to understand how GR
models this requires understanding GR, which you clearly fail to do.

Tom Roberts

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