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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #616449 > unrolled thread

There is no material length contraction

Started byKen Seto <setoken47@gmail.com>
First post2023-07-31 16:42 -0700
Last post2023-08-01 21:33 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 127 — 28 participants

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Contents

  There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 16:42 -0700
    Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-01 10:41 +1000
      Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-07-31 18:15 -0700
      Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 18:38 -0700
        Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-01 12:10 +1000
          Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 21:47 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-07-31 22:04 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 15:52 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:50 +0000
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 02:55 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:57 +0000
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 03:09 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 07:01 -0700
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:30 -0700
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 14:01 -0400
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:42 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Rob Bibler <rreb@bieillii.ir> - 2023-08-03 20:02 +0000
                        Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:29 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 22:37 -0400
                        Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:28 -0700
                        Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 04:11 -0700
                          Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:34 -0400
                            Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:41 -0700
                              Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 23:31 -0400
                                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 21:21 -0700
                                  Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 00:50 -0400
                                    Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:57 -0700
                                      Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:38 -0400
                                        Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 10:11 -0700
                                          Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-06 21:00 +0000
                                          Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:34 -0400
                                      Re: There is no material length contraction Rondell Verre <eror@vedllele.ee> - 2023-08-05 20:10 +0000
                            Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:52 -0700
                            Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:58 -0700
                              Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:43 -0400
                                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:36 -0700
                                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:22 -0700
                                  Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:00 -0700
                                  Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:53 -0700
                                  Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:39 -0400
                                    Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-07 15:53 +0000
                                      Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 19:24 +0200
                                        Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-07 18:32 +0000
                                          Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 22:43 +0200
                                      Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-07 12:29 -0500
                                      Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 16:45 -0400
                                    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 11:01 -0700
                                      Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 16:48 -0400
                                        Re: There is no material length contraction Nat Vaikule <nukv@vektnaaa.nv> - 2023-08-07 21:25 +0000
                                          Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:34 -0700
                                            Re: There is no material length contraction Jarrell Martirosov <ajrr@riilromm.aa> - 2023-08-08 10:03 +0000
                                        Re: There is no material length contraction whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-07 18:01 -0500
                                          Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 18:53 -0400
                                            Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 19:07 -0700
                                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 13:20 -0700
                                  Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 18:58 -0400
                                    Re: There is no material length contraction Ronaldo Amerhanov <hera@aeladhrd.ma> - 2023-08-12 20:57 +0000
                                    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 06:07 -0700
                                      Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 09:06 -0700
                                        Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-14 16:21 +0000
                                          Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 09:39 -0700
                            Re: There is no material length contraction Ozzie Jakushov <ezhu@ijjhhouv.az> - 2023-08-04 21:35 +0000
                              Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 15:58 -0700
                                Re: There is no material length contraction Beraldo Hapy <lhap@aaloyohe.pl> - 2023-08-05 03:00 +0000
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 05:30 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Dalton Dubman <nlat@tualtadd.db> - 2023-08-08 14:02 +0000
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-08 10:45 -0400
                        Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 06:48 -0700
                          Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 06:58 -0700
                          Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-09 12:31 -0400
                            Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 08:38 -0700
                              Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 11:56 -0400
                                Re: There is no material length contraction Kaosayn Shakhbazyan <nazs@aoonaaoo.ah> - 2023-08-10 16:30 +0000
          Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 22:12 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 16:04 +1000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 00:19 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 19:06 +1000
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 02:53 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-04 08:03 +1000
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:23 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-04 13:22 +0000
              Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 01:21 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 19:10 +1000
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:56 +0000
                    Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 08:57 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 16:13 +0000
                        Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 09:24 -0700
                          Re: There is no material length contraction Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:22 +0200
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 17:28 +0000
                        Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 10:57 -0700
          Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 04:25 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 09:08 -0400
              Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 06:14 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 07:40 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 10:30 -0700
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Shkelqim Jadrennikov <meem@qnoeeooq.ds> - 2023-08-01 20:49 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 22:57 -0400
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 06:43 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 14:11 -0400
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:38 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Darling Vavravsky <rlrg@kakkdvyv.lv> - 2023-08-01 20:33 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Chaney Charnolusky <ycck@sarhhnkn.ca> - 2023-08-01 20:59 +0000
            Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 08:33 +1000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-01 23:09 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 09:15 +1000
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-02 10:17 +0000
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:23 -0700
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-02 11:47 +0000
                        Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:12 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 16:40 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 16:51 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 10:57 +1000
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 23:04 -0400
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 21:58 -0700
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 21:59 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 23:00 -0400
                  Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 15:01 -0400
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Moody Vallah <mahv@ohoymldo.lv> - 2023-08-03 19:41 +0000
                      Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:00 -0700
                    Re: There is no material length contraction James Dzhunkovsky <uskv@mdjjsnue.ze> - 2023-08-03 19:23 +0000
      Re: There is no material length contraction nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-01 11:07 +0200
    Re: There is no material length contraction JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 17:46 -0700
      Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 18:40 -0700
      Re: There is no material length contraction Lamont Bakhmutov <mktk@tomhmtmm.ml> - 2023-08-01 21:10 +0000
        Re: There is no material length contraction Thad Mokrinsky <aonk@yoitaito.rm> - 2023-08-01 21:33 +0000

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#616541

FromDarling Vavravsky <rlrg@kakkdvyv.lv>
Date2023-08-01 20:33 +0000
Message-ID<uabq7g$3mqkm$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#616498
Volney wrote:

> On 8/1/2023 7:25 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
>> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model  is better.
> 
> You don't even have a science model, Stupid Ken, so it's impossible for
> your non-model to be better.

forget it. You too are a 𝗦𝗺𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘀𝗸𝘆 from ukurina. Changed your name and
moved to america. Like Einstine. I bet the Einstine was too a 𝗦𝗺𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘀𝗸𝘆
from ukurina, changed his name and moved to america. With his cousin,
which is a disgrace.

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#616546

FromChaney Charnolusky <ycck@sarhhnkn.ca>
Date2023-08-01 20:59 +0000
Message-ID<uabrmm$3o760$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#616541
Archimedes Plutonium wrote:

> Moscow▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂Beijing mushroom cloud, Xi as Putin's stooge when
> Russia vaporizes Beijing with its RS-28 Sarmat "Satan II", all because
> Xi was too dumb to realize you can never trust an insane person
> 
>> > On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 9:03:40 AM UTC-5, Volney wrote:
>> > >"Putin's Stooge"

yet another idiot 𝗦𝗺𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘀𝗸𝘆 from ukurina. You guys are all 𝗦𝗺𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗻𝘀𝗸𝘆s,
polluting this channel 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵_𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗶_𝗽𝗵𝘆𝘀𝗶𝗰𝘀.

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#616557

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2023-08-02 08:33 +1000
Message-ID<kitfifFn1g9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#616491
On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote:
> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable.
>>>>> Here's how:
>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames.
>>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is
>>>>> contracting.
>>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation
>>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames.
>>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows:
>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames.
>>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick ....
>>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material
>>>>> length..
>>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma.
>>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said
>>>> there was.
>>>
>>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above?
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do
>> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain
>> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you,
>> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable
>> conse
> 
> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model  is better.
> My model:
> 1. The speed of light is  variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in
>       the aether.
> 2  Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames
> 3. The length  light  need to  t ravel to cover the material length  of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length)
> 4. The time for light  tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable.
> 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c"
> 
> So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames.
>>
> 

If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.

Sylvia.

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#616558

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr>
Date2023-08-01 23:09 +0000
Message-ID<8mYX-2Ozs7IJcCesT2aXkpdvlok@jntp>
In reply to#616557
Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit :
> 
> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.
> 
> Sylvia.

It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia.

R.H. 

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#616559

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2023-08-02 09:15 +1000
Message-ID<kithvtFn1g9U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#616558
On 02-Aug-23 9:09 am, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit :
>>
>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.
>>
>> Sylvia.
> 
> It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia.
> 
> R.H.

Darling Richard, your comment is singularly uninformative.

Sylvia.

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#616597

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr>
Date2023-08-02 10:17 +0000
Message-ID<HhwUDHcPZvMfIurID1Y3uc-CiAc@jntp>
In reply to#616559
Le 02/08/2023 à 01:15, Sylvia Else a écrit :
> On 02-Aug-23 9:09 am, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit :
>>>
>>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
>>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
>>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
>>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>> 
>> It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia.
>> 
>> R.H.
> 
> Darling Richard, your comment is singularly uninformative.
> 
> Sylvia.

My love Sylvia,
I wrote in 1986: "If a fact or an experiment comes to contradict a theory 
nevertheless accepted and well ingrained in the spirits, this one must be 
abandoned: it is the theory which is wrong, and it is the fact which has 
raison".
So we agree.
You also say "the theory of relativity can predict observed facts", that 
is also true, of course.
But where I find and say it's a little more complicated than that is when 
I say that sometimes two theories can predict the same things at some 
points, and very different things at others. others.
There can therefore only be at most one true one among the two.
Now let's see how physicists proceed, and how Doctor Hachel proceeds.
Physicists have no theory at the start, and are surprised that strange 
facts appear. This is the experience of physicist Michelson, and his 
chemist friend Morley. It is then necessary to explain the result, and to 
cement on it a plausible theory. We start from a fact, and we create a 
theory to explain it.
With Dr. Hachel, we first have a theory and we only ask AFTER to prove it 
with facts. The conceptual power, if the facts are proven, then becomes 
enormous. It is not the same to propose a theory on unexplained facts, 
than to predict unexplained facts before they even occur.
So we have two models of SR.
But if a single fact proves mine, which logically should happen, and 
contradicts certain predictions of the current SR, the power of what I 
propose will be infinite.

R.H. 

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#616598

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 03:23 -0700
Message-ID<c25c42d0-b956-44bc-90d1-31166f514f85n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616597
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:17:53 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 02/08/2023 à 01:15, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
> > On 02-Aug-23 9:09 am, Richard Hachel wrote: 
> >> Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
> >>> 
> >>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> >>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> >>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> >>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> >>> 
> >>> Sylvia. 
> >> 
> >> It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia. 
> >> 
> >> R.H. 
> > 
> > Darling Richard, your comment is singularly uninformative. 
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> My love Sylvia, 
> I wrote in 1986: "If a fact or an experiment comes to contradict a theory 
> nevertheless accepted and well ingrained in the spirits, this one must be 
> abandoned: it is the theory which is wrong, and it is the fact which has 
> raison". 
> So we agree. 

You're both very naive and plainly incompetent.

> You also say "the theory of relativity can predict observed facts", that 
> is also true, of course. 

But in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
insane bunch "improper" clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
like all serious clocks always do.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616600

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr>
Date2023-08-02 11:47 +0000
Message-ID<gTdxS5OuXRhuhnmzvPSAs4PwBs4@jntp>
In reply to#616598
Le 02/08/2023 à 12:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:17:53 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
>> Le 02/08/2023 à 01:15, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
>> > On 02-Aug-23 9:09 am, Richard Hachel wrote: 
>> >> Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
>> >>> 
>> >>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
>> >>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
>> >>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
>> >>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sylvia. 
>> >> 
>> >> It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia. 
>> >> 
>> >> R.H. 
>> > 
>> > Darling Richard, your comment is singularly uninformative. 
>> > 
>> > Sylvia.
>> My love Sylvia, 
>> I wrote in 1986: "If a fact or an experiment comes to contradict a theory 
>> nevertheless accepted and well ingrained in the spirits, this one must be 
>> abandoned: it is the theory which is wrong, and it is the fact which has 
>> raison". 
>> So we agree. 
> 
> You're both very naive and plainly incompetent.
> 
>> You also say "the theory of relativity can predict observed facts", that 
>> is also true, of course. 
> 
> But in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your
> insane bunch "improper" clocks keep measuring t'=t, just
> like all serious clocks always do.

Maciej, I find you very arrogant today.

I'm going to explain something to you.

Did you know that the speed of sound is independent of the intensity of 
noise?

If I make a noise twice as loud, I don't get a sound that travels twice as 
fast.

For the light it's a bit the same.

If I am at rest, and I send a light ray towards Maciej, the light ray 
moves from Richard towards Maciej, at v=c.

But if I move towards it, say at 30 m/s, and send it a beam of light, the 
beam will always pass through space at v=c, not at v=c+30m/s

In short, the speed of light is a function of the frame of reference of 
the receiver, and not of the frame of reference of the emitter.

Can you understand that?

If not, stop posting Maciej, you do more damage than anything else by 
posting your bullshit with aggression and harassment.

Instead, help others (who don't understand much more than you) to 
understand how Dr. Hachel's theory of relativity works. I'm not asking for 
agreement. I ask at least that we understand it.

Now when you will have understood what I have just written (I beg you to 
make an effort of courage) try to progress in what I say, and reflect on 
the small problems posed recently here with the three small wagons which I 
drew , and what will induce the constant speed of light in the reference 
frame of the observer.

You will see that time is relative.

You will understand WHY.

Take advantage of the immense chance that you are given to have here 
someone who knows his subject and who has a great didactic gift for 
explaining things with baby steps.

Thank you for your understanding Maciej (even if I don't believe it for a 
second).

R.H. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616601

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-02 05:12 -0700
Message-ID<25ce1e21-f405-4aa2-998e-c41f0bb7dad6n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616600
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 13:47:59 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote:
> Le 02/08/2023 à 12:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : 
> > On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 12:17:53 UTC+2, Richard Hachel wrote: 
> >> Le 02/08/2023 à 01:15, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
> >> > On 02-Aug-23 9:09 am, Richard Hachel wrote: 
> >> >> Le 02/08/2023 à 00:33, Sylvia Else a écrit : 
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> >> >>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> >> >>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> >> >>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Sylvia. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> It's a little more complicated than that, my love Sylvia. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> R.H. 
> >> > 
> >> > Darling Richard, your comment is singularly uninformative. 
> >> > 
> >> > Sylvia. 
> >> My love Sylvia, 
> >> I wrote in 1986: "If a fact or an experiment comes to contradict a theory 
> >> nevertheless accepted and well ingrained in the spirits, this one must be 
> >> abandoned: it is the theory which is wrong, and it is the fact which has 
> >> raison". 
> >> So we agree. 
> > 
> > You're both very naive and plainly incompetent. 
> > 
> >> You also say "the theory of relativity can predict observed facts", that 
> >> is also true, of course. 
> > 
> > But in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by your 
> > insane bunch "improper" clocks keep measuring t'=t, just 
> > like all serious clocks always do.
> Maciej, I find you very arrogant today. 
> 
> I'm going to explain something to you. 
> 
> Did you know that the speed of sound is independent of the intensity of 
> noise? 
> 
> If I make a noise twice as loud, I don't get a sound that travels twice as 
> fast. 
> 
> For the light it's a bit the same. 
> 
> If I am at rest, and I send a light ray towards Maciej, the light ray 
> moves from Richard towards Maciej, at v=c. 
> 
> But if I move towards it, say at 30 m/s, and send it a beam of light, the 
> beam will always pass through space at v=c, not at v=c+30m/s 
> 
> In short, the speed of light is a function of the frame of reference of 
> the receiver, and not of the frame of reference of the emitter. 
> 
> Can you understand that? 

Speed of light is a function of assumed by us coordinates. 
Basically, it can be whatever we want. And what you're trying
to do is - to persuade us that what we want is what you like.
No fucken way, sorry.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616562

FromKen Seto <setoken47@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-01 16:40 -0700
Message-ID<5b75c472-0665-46c0-8780-8670f4e81b47n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616557
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable. 
> >>>>> Here's how: 
> >>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames. 
> >>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is 
> >>>>> contracting. 
> >>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation 
> >>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames. 
> >>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows: 
> >>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames. 
> >>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick .... 
> >>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material 
> >>>>> length.. 
> >>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma. 
> >>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said 
> >>>> there was. 
> >>> 
> >>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above? 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sylvia. 
> >> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do 
> >> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain 
> >> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you, 
> >> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable 
> >> conse 
> > 
> > Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better. 
> > My model: 
> > 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in 
> > the aether. 
> > 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames 
> > 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length) 
> > 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable. 
> > 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c" 
> > 
> > So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames. 
> >> 
> >
> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> 

How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616563

FromKen Seto <setoken47@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-01 16:51 -0700
Message-ID<1c0defa5-0f3f-48d8-83a8-6cf3265b9e64n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616562
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:40:05 PM UTC-4, Ken Seto wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > > On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > >> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > >>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > >>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > >>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable. 
> > >>>>> Here's how: 
> > >>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames. 
> > >>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is 
> > >>>>> contracting. 
> > >>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation 
> > >>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames. 
> > >>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows: 
> > >>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames. 
> > >>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick .... 
> > >>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material 
> > >>>>> length.. 
> > >>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma. 
> > >>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story. 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said 
> > >>>> there was. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above? 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Sylvia. 
> > >> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do 
> > >> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain 
> > >> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you, 
> > >> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable 
> > >> conse 
> > > 
> > > Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better. 
> > > My model: 
> > > 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in 
> > > the aether. 
> > > 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames 
> > > 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length) 
> > > 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable. 
> > > 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c" 
> > > 
> > > So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames. 
> > >> 
> > > 
> > If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> > then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> > either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> > formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> >
> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions? 
> .
Go read my book chapter r 4......Improved relative theory and Doppler thereof gravity.
My book is titled "Model Mechanics: The final Theory"
It is available in I Cloud.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616565

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2023-08-02 10:57 +1000
Message-ID<kitnv5Fo8nkU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#616562
On 02-Aug-23 9:40 am, Ken Seto wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable.
>>>>>>> Here's how:
>>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames.
>>>>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is
>>>>>>> contracting.
>>>>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation
>>>>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames.
>>>>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows:
>>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames.
>>>>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick ....
>>>>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material
>>>>>>> length..
>>>>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma.
>>>>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said
>>>>>> there was.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do
>>>> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain
>>>> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you,
>>>> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable
>>>> conse
>>>
>>> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better.
>>> My model:
>>> 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in
>>> the aether.
>>> 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames
>>> 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length)
>>> 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable.
>>> 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c"
>>>
>>> So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames.
>>>>
>>>
>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements,
>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model
>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical
>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.
>>
> 
> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
> .

I didn't say that it doesn't. But you haven't pointed to an experimental 
result that shows that relativity is wrong (as distinct from an 
experiment that you think would do so if it were performed).

If your theory makes the same predictions are relativity, then I 
reiterate my point that that means it's just a different mathematical 
formulation.

If it differs in its predictions, then you have the opportunity to do an 
experiment that will distinguish between your theory and relativity. But 
you'd have to do it, not just say you think it would support your theory 
and falsify relativity.

You like your theory. We get it. But overturning relativity requires 
more than that.

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616568

FromKen Seto <setoken47@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-01 18:26 -0700
Message-ID<539bd6a3-1f55-4deb-85e8-3cb180a178c0n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616565
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 8:57:13 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 02-Aug-23 9:40 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >> On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >>>> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >>>>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>>>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable. 
> >>>>>>> Here's how: 
> >>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is 
> >>>>>>> contracting. 
> >>>>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation 
> >>>>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows: 
> >>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick .... 
> >>>>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material 
> >>>>>>> length.. 
> >>>>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma. 
> >>>>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story. 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said 
> >>>>>> there was. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above? 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Sylvia. 
> >>>> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do 
> >>>> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain 
> >>>> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you, 
> >>>> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable 
> >>>> conse 
> >>> 
> >>> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better. 
> >>> My model: 
> >>> 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in 
> >>> the aether. 
> >>> 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames 
> >>> 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length) 
> >>> 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable. 
> >>> 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c" 
> >>> 
> >>> So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames. 
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> >> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> >> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> >> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> >> 
> > 
> > How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions? 
> > .
> I didn't say that it doesn't. But you haven't pointed to an experimental 
> result that shows that relativity is wrong (as distinct from an 
> experiment that you think would do so if it were performed). 
> 
> If your theory makes the same predictions are relativity, then I 
> reiterate my point that that means it's just a different mathematical 
> formulation. 
> 
> If it differs in its predictions, then you have the opportunity to do an 
> experiment that will distinguish between your theory and relativity. But 
> you'd have to do it, not just say you think it would support your theory 
> and falsify relativity. 
> 
> You like your theory. We get it. But overturning relativity requires 
> more than that. 

Model Mechanics  doesn't overturn relativity.....it includes relativity as a subset..
My book is available in Amazon.au
Ken

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616579

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-08-01 23:04 -0400
Message-ID<uach3h$3umcv$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#616568
On 8/1/2023 9:26 PM, Ken Seto wrote:

> Model Mechanics  doesn't overturn relativity.....it includes relativity as a subset..

If your Muddle Mechanics includes relativity as a subset, it would need 
to agree with everything relativity predicts. Its supposed value would 
be predictions which relativity is silent on.

Not only does your Muddle Mechanics disagree with relativity (so 
relativity cannot be a subset), it doesn't even make predictions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616585

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-01 21:58 -0700
Message-ID<651b503d-0753-4bde-8bde-1383849014bfn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616579
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 05:04:21 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
> On 8/1/2023 9:26 PM, Ken Seto wrote: 
> 
> > Model Mechanics doesn't overturn relativity.....it includes relativity as a subset..
> If your Muddle Mechanics includes relativity as a subset, it would need 

And do you still believe that  9 192 631 770  ISO idiocy
is some "Newton mode"? You're such an amazing idiot, 
stupid Mike, even considering the standards of your
moronic religion.

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#616586

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-01 21:59 -0700
Message-ID<43ed6528-c594-47a5-be40-af94951bdb07n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616565
On Wednesday, 2 August 2023 at 02:57:13 UTC+2, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 02-Aug-23 9:40 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >> On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >>>> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> >>>>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote: 
> >>>>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable. 
> >>>>>>> Here's how: 
> >>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is 
> >>>>>>> contracting. 
> >>>>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation 
> >>>>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows: 
> >>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames. 
> >>>>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick .... 
> >>>>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material 
> >>>>>>> length.. 
> >>>>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma. 
> >>>>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story. 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said 
> >>>>>> there was. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above? 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Sylvia. 
> >>>> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do 
> >>>> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain 
> >>>> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you, 
> >>>> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable 
> >>>> conse 
> >>> 
> >>> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better. 
> >>> My model: 
> >>> 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in 
> >>> the aether. 
> >>> 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames 
> >>> 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length) 
> >>> 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable. 
> >>> 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c" 
> >>> 
> >>> So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames. 
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements, 
> >> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model 
> >> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical 
> >> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong. 
> >> 
> > 
> > How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions? 
> > .
> I didn't say that it doesn't. But you haven't pointed to an experimental 
> result that shows that relativity is wrong (as distinct from an 
> experiment that you think would do so if it were performed). 

That's very simple, lady - anyone can check GPS and test
that time (as defined by your insane guru himself) is
galilean with the precision of an acceptable error.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#616578

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-08-01 23:00 -0400
Message-ID<uacgsp$3umcv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#616562
On 8/1/2023 7:40 PM, Ken Seto wrote:

> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
> .
Because your not-a-model doesn't make ANY predictions.

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#616708

FromKen Seto <setoken47@gmail.com>
Date2023-08-03 11:53 -0700
Message-ID<adb7f98d-8298-4d17-bbea-085cb8699074n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#616578
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 11:00:44 PM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
> On 8/1/2023 7:40 PM, Ken Seto wrote: 
> 
> > How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions? 
> > .
> Because your not-a-model doesn't make ANY predictions.

Give me an example how SR makes a correct prediction.

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#616710

FromVolney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Date2023-08-03 15:01 -0400
Message-ID<uagths$sfsd$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#616708
On 8/3/2023 2:53 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 11:00:44 PM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
>> On 8/1/2023 7:40 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
>>
>>> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
>>> .
>> Because your not-a-model doesn't make ANY predictions.
> 
> Give me an example how SR makes a correct prediction.

The km long pion beam that Tom R. repeatedly mentions.

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#616719

FromMoody Vallah <mahv@ohoymldo.lv>
Date2023-08-03 19:41 +0000
Message-ID<uagvsu$1ggft$3@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#616710
Volney wrote:

> On 8/3/2023 2:53 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 11:00:44 PM UTC-4, Volney wrote:
>>> On 8/1/2023 7:40 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>
>>>> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
>>>> .
>>> Because your not-a-model doesn't make ANY predictions.
>> 
>> Give me an example how SR makes a correct prediction.
> 
> The km long pion beam that Tom R. repeatedly mentions.

no, I challenge you, It needs to be circular, hence repetitive. The 
detectors at start would necessarily coincide with those at the end. The 
credit of america 𝗱𝗼𝘄𝗻𝗴𝗿𝗮𝗱𝗲𝘀_𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺_𝗔𝗔𝗔_𝘁𝗼_𝗔𝗔+. This is amazing. It looks 
like an underdeveloped country.

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