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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #476046 > unrolled thread

E=mc2

Started byOmar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com>
First post2018-11-01 14:43 -0700
Last post2018-11-08 08:48 +0100
Articles 5 on this page of 65 — 20 participants

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  E=mc2 Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 14:43 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 22:55 +0000
    E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-01 16:04 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 09:21 -0700
        Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 09:52 -0700
          Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-02 15:28 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 17:53 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-02 01:02 +0000
      Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-02 18:43 +0100
        Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-02 11:21 -0700
    Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-02 13:35 +1100
      Re: E=mc2 mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-01 21:43 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-01 23:09 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-02 01:33 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-04 12:34 +0000
        Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-04 14:20 +0100
          Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-04 05:51 -0800
          Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-05 20:51 +0000
            Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-06 10:57 +1100
              Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-06 20:21 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-07 08:57 +1100
                  Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-07 19:35 +0000
                    Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-08 09:32 +1100
                      Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <agn@j2awdos.nc> - 2018-11-08 21:13 +0000
                        Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-08 22:26 +0100
                          Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <ucpp@j2adosw.nv> - 2018-11-09 19:46 +0000
                            Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-10 02:47 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-07 00:13 +0100
                  Re: E=mc2 Ntowicz Usarczyk <iswso@wioioksi.io> - 2018-11-07 19:38 +0000
        Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 13:17 -0500
          Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-04 20:01 +0100
            Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 14:38 -0500
              Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-04 20:53 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 18:01 -0500
                  Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 01:58 +0100
                    Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:59 -0500
                      Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 05:39 +0100
                    Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-05 07:54 +0100
                      Re: E=mc2 Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-11-05 22:33 -0600
                        Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-06 06:27 +0100
                        Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-06 06:28 +0100
                    Re: E=mc2 mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-04 23:28 -0800
              Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:14 +0000
                Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 18:05 -0500
                  Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 02:02 +0100
                    Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 22:59 -0500
                      Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-05 05:51 +0100
                  Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-05 03:00 +0000
                    Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 23:15 -0500
                      Re: E=mc2 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-05 12:59 +0000
            Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktea@yswdoiz.cp> - 2018-11-05 21:00 +0000
              Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-13 15:38 +0100
                Re: E=mc2 Gaston Castaneda <uucp@jav4ow.nq> - 2018-11-13 20:22 +0000
                  Re: E=mc2 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-13 23:09 +0100
                    Re: E=mc2 Shon Wible <shwn@shouwe.wh> - 2018-11-14 15:53 +0000
          Re: E=mc2 Buck Dehner <uktoa@yswdoez.cb> - 2018-11-05 20:54 +0000
          Re: E=mc2 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-11-07 22:35 -0800
          Re: E=mc2 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-11-07 22:44 -0800
            Re: E=mc2 "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-08 06:34 -0800
        Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-05 12:21 +1100
          Re: E=mc2 benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-11-04 23:12 -0500
            Re: E=mc2 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-05 16:30 +1100
    Re: E=mc2 Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-11-02 16:48 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-02 19:07 -0700
      Re: E=mc2 Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-11-08 08:48 +0100

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#476277

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-04 23:12 -0500
Message-ID<prog07$trh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#476262
On 11/4/2018 8:21 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 4/11/2018 11:34 pm, Buck Dehner wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2018 8:43 am, Omar Shabsigh wrote:
>>>>    I was not convinced by the derivation of this formula whether by
>>>>    Einstein or others. HELP!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You haven't provided much information. You might have an issue with the
>>> postulates or with the algebra. Or you might just have a philosophical
>>> objection that is incapable of being addressed by any kind of argument.
>>> It is generally accepted that the algebra is correct, and the resulting
>>> formula fits experimental results.
>>
>> Negative. E=mc² is invalid from head to tail. Based entirely on circular
>> reasoning and assumed assertions. When you can prove that E=/=mc³ or that
>> E=/=mc^1.6 wake me up.
>>
> 
> I think this betrays a lack of understanding of what physics is about.
> 
> So far, we have no reason to think that we can deduce the laws of the 
> universe from first principles. If we could, that would imply that only 
> one set of laws is conceivable.

As Einstein said there is no path leading from experiment to a theory.

> Instead, we make observations of how the universe behaves, and try to 
> fit those observations into a mathematical framework that allows us to 
> predict the results of observations that have not yet been made.

WE must use intuition, fantasy and imagination to attempt to guess a 
theory that fits observations. If that theory then predicts things found 
to be true, it considered successful. But if even one prediction is 
wrong then the theory is wrong. As Feynman said: Period!

> Einstein looked at the laws of electromagnetism, and formed the view 
> that they suggested that the laws of physics depend only on relative 
> motion. One ramification of that would be the observed constancy of the 
> speed of light. He then showed that this hypothesis leads to a number of 
> conclusions, of which E = mc^2 is one. The exponent of two arises 
> inexorably from the algebra. No other exponent can be derived that way. 
> If the correct exponent is other than two, then the hypothesis must be 
> wrong. As has already been pointed out, any exponent other than two 
> would also raise the problem that the equation would be dimensionally 
> inconsistent.

Not quite. In Einstein's day there was considerable speculation of the 
the Galilean principle of relativity (1632) applied to electromagnetic 
phenomena. It was widely suspected that it did. A number of persons 
generated theories (well before Einstein) which Einstein more or less 
brought together (without crediting any of them). MMX was a problem that 
needed to be explained. Einstein just too it as an axiom without 
explaining it.

> The hypothesis might indeed have been wrong. If it were, one would 
> expect one or more of the conclusions to be found to be false. So far 
> they have not been. In particular, E = mc^2 stands up very well.
> 
> Sylvia.

Not as well as you think. Like so much in physics the basic idea has 
been extrapolated and stretched until it squeals.

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#476284

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2018-11-05 16:30 +1100
Message-ID<g4a2rvFk66pU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#476277
On 5/11/2018 3:12 pm, benj wrote:

> 
> Not as well as you think. Like so much in physics the basic idea has 
> been extrapolated and stretched until it squeals.
> 
> 

I don't know what you mean by that. It either gives the right answers or 
it doesn't. Are you aware of an experiment in which it gives the wrong 
answer?

Sylvia.

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#476117

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-02 16:48 -0700
Message-ID<fb205e8b-751a-42c2-a3a6-a831d4aa1f05@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#476046
On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:43:46 PM UTC-7, Omar Shabsigh wrote:

> I was not convinced by the derivation of this formula whether by
> Einstein or others. HELP!!!!!!

Yes, E = M c² was not derived by Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar.  In fact, the famous equation was never derived by anyone.  Instead, it was put together from observations.  For a complete derivation, please see the following link.  <shrug>

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/IORSEper9po/IKPSsIJmCQAJ

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#476119

Frommitchrae3323@gmail.com
Date2018-11-02 19:07 -0700
Message-ID<1012c7c4-b7ea-4ace-ba53-11e3c8963746@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#476117
On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 4:48:45 PM UTC-7, Koobee Wublee wrote:
> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:43:46 PM UTC-7, Omar Shabsigh wrote:
> 
> > I was not convinced by the derivation of this formula whether by
> > Einstein or others. HELP!!!!!!
> 
> Yes, E = M c² was not derived by Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar.  In fact, the famous equation was never derived by anyone.  Instead, it was put together from observations.  For a complete derivation, please see the following link.  <shrug>
> 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/IORSEper9po/IKPSsIJmCQAJ

As myth the equation works out as a reality in another form.
The speed limit relates to universal densities.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#476543

FromLibor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com>
Date2018-11-08 08:48 +0100
Message-ID<ps0pp6$lbl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#476117
Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:43:46 PM UTC-7, Omar Shabsigh wrote:> I was not convinced by the derivation of this formula whether by> Einstein or others. HELP!!!!!!Yes, E = M c² was not derived by Einstein the nitwit, the plagiarist, and the liar.  In fact, the famous equation was never derived by anyone.  Instead, it was put together from observations.  For a complete derivation, please see the following link.  <shrug>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/IORSEper9po/IKPSsIJmCQAJ

"was never derived by anybody" versus 
"For a complete derivation, please see the following link."

-- 
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman


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