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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #452501 > unrolled thread

Units in spacetime

Started byThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
First post2018-03-13 10:06 +0100
Last post2018-04-03 06:45 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 95 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-13 10:06 +0100
    Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:15 -0700
      Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 14:36 +0000
        Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:51 -0700
          Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 08:34 -0700
        Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 09:20 -0700
          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 16:27 +0000
            Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 16:28 +0000
            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 09:45 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-13 18:39 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
                  Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
                    Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-14 13:54 +0100
                      Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-14 16:02 +0000
                        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-14 21:47 +0100
              Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 18:02 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 18:12 +0000
        Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-13 22:00 +0100
          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 22:55 +0000
            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:19 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:32 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:52 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 18:07 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 12:03 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 13:18 -0700
                  Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-14 21:38 +0100
                    Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 16:27 -0700
                      Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-15 01:05 +0100
                      Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 03:52 +0000
                        Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 23:10 -0700
                          Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-15 00:16 -0700
                          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 11:55 +0000
                          Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 14:40 +0100
                        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-15 16:02 +0100
                          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 15:20 +0000
                            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 09:49 -0700
                              Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 19:49 +0000
                      Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 11:26 +0100
                        Re: Units in spacetime mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-03-15 04:03 -0700
                        Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 15:50 +0000
                          Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 21:15 +0100
                        Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 10:30 -0700
                          Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-15 18:32 +0100
                            Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 19:51 +0000
                          Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 20:56 +0100
                            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 23:20 -0700
                              Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-16 10:11 +0100
                                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-18 22:25 -0700
                                  Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-19 09:17 +0100
                                    Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 10:36 -0700
                                      Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 17:57 +0000
                                        Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 11:16 -0700
                                          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 18:43 +0000
                                            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 13:02 -0700
                                      Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-19 21:24 +0100
                                        Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 09:32 -0700
                                          Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-20 17:40 +0100
                                            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 09:55 -0700
                                              Re: Units in spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-03-20 18:25 +0100
                                                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 14:21 -0700
                                                  Re: Units in spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-03-20 22:57 +0100
                                                    Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 16:00 -0700
                                                      Re: Units in spacetime Darryl Fletcher <lu@ewiwwe.tt> - 2018-03-20 23:38 +0000
                                          Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-22 14:01 +0100
                                            Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 13:45 -0700
                                              Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-27 20:18 +0200
                                                Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 14:40 -0700
                                            Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 07:38 -0700
                                              Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-27 19:53 +0200
                                                Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 12:21 -0700
                                                  Re: Units in spacetime Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-27 16:47 -0400
                                                  Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-28 09:34 +0200
                                        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-20 21:12 +0100
                              Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-16 10:32 +0100
                                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-16 12:33 +0100
                                  Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-17 21:29 +0100
                  Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 20:51 +0000
                  Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-20 15:41 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-15 14:04 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-15 20:10 +0100
        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-22 05:57 +0100
          Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-27 19:57 +0200
    Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-20 13:49 -0700
      Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 07:26 +0000
    Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-22 15:28 -0700
      Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-23 09:57 +0100
        Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-25 18:54 -0700
    Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-23 10:48 -0700
      Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-25 19:03 +0200
        Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 06:39 -0700
          Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-26 21:43 +0200
    Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-30 11:00 +0100
      Re: Units in spacetime Will Bos <sllu@wsws.sb> - 2018-03-30 10:52 +0000
        Re: Units in spacetime Will Bos <sllu@wsws.sb> - 2018-03-30 11:02 +0000
      Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-03 06:45 +0200

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →


#452501 — Units in spacetime

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2018-03-13 10:06 +0100
SubjectUnits in spacetime
Message-ID<fgpik3F5ps8U1@mid.individual.net>
Hi NG

while sorting out old stuff on old harddrives, I have found this nice 
little text, which I had written about 2010 for 'BAUT' forum.

Hope you like that:

******************************************************************


ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz².
That is (cdt)² +ds²=dx² + dy² + dz².

Along the lightcone we have ds=0, hence could take the square root and 
get units of meters - as expected.

For dx=dy=dz=0 we get ds²= -1 * c²dt² . We have to take the square root 
of –1, what is the imaginary unit  i and get  i*cdt=ds, or ‘imaginary 
meters’.

For dt=0 we have a negative ds². In spacelike direction we have 
sqrt(ds²) =sqrt(dx² + dy² + dz²),

what has units of meters/i.

The term ds seems to be the magnitude of a matrix, indicating the amount 
of change in space and time, if you think in terms of four vectors a=a0 
+ a1 e1 + a2 e2 + a3 e3, then
det(a) = |a|2 = ao² - a1² - a2² - a3².

The velocities in spacetime seems to be dimensionless: meter per meter.

So we could use radians as units for velocity. Than we have dimensions 
of meters per meter or an ‘imaginary angle’.

Since here I treat objects as 'self-centred' (at rest in respect to 
itself), we could make the angle zero along the timeline and the circle 
perpendicular  timeless, hence |a|2 = a a^-1  .

A full circle provides a tick at some kind of clock. Since it has this 
is an anti-symmetric behavior and the clock behaves somehow similar a 
pendulum, swinging back and forth.

In spacetime perspective, that pendulum could be visualized as a 
pointer, pointing up and down. That is like a pointer, which is 
performing a circle around a spacelike axis.

Actually we have three spacelike axes, hence each could provide a clock 
and we have to add the change in space along each axis to the total 
change in time.

Since the meter is defined with help of the second and that as some 
counting of a clock, we have to think about spacetime having no 
dimensions at all, other than radians and i.

The scale has to be put in by hand, according to the scale of the system 
observed. Even as this seems to be unsatisfactory, the world we live in, 
behaves like having just such fractal properties.

The plank unit h could provide the size of a fundamental unit sphere, 
since a sphere in spacetime has a volume with units of an action.



TH

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#452511

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 07:15 -0700
Message-ID<c9da30bf-feee-4de2-8bd9-e714c0ad3a5e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452501
Thomas Heger
Hi NG 

while sorting out old stuff on old harddrives, I have found this nice 
little text, which I had written about 2010 for 'BAUT' forum. 

Hope you like that: 

****************************************************************** 


ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 
That is (cdt)² +ds²=dx² + dy² + dz². 

Along the lightcone we have ds=0, hence could take the square root and 
get units of meters - as expected. 

For dx=dy=dz=0 we get ds²= -1 * c²dt² . We have to take the square root 
of –1, what is the imaginary unit  i and get  i*cdt=ds, or ‘imaginary 
meters’. 

For dt=0 we have a negative ds². In spacelike direction we have 
sqrt(ds²) =sqrt(dx² + dy² + dz²), 

what has units of meters/i. 

The term ds seems to be the magnitude of a matrix, indicating the amount 
of change in space and time, if you think in terms of four vectors a=a0 
+ a1 e1 + a2 e2 + a3 e3, then 
det(a) = |a|2 = ao² - a1² - a2² - a3². 

The velocities in spacetime seems to be dimensionless: meter per meter. 

So we could use radians as units for velocity. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xrSxQ4a2rON6XiiY2

Than we have dimensions 
of meters per meter or an ‘imaginary angle’. 

Since here I treat objects as 'self-centred' (at rest in respect to 
itself), we could make the angle zero along the timeline and the circle 
perpendicular  timeless, hence |a|2 = a a^-1  . 

A full circle provides a tick at some kind of clock. Since it has this 
is an anti-symmetric behavior and the clock behaves somehow similar a 
pendulum, swinging back and forth. 

http://cds.cern.ch/record/516564/files/0109005.pdf

On the reversal of sign of secondary Bjerknes force acting between two pulsating gas bubbles


In spacetime perspective, that pendulum could be visualized as a 
pointer, pointing up and down. That is like a pointer, which is
performing a circle around a spacelike axis. 

Actually we have three spacelike axes, hence each could provide a clock 
and we have to add the change in space along each axis to the total 
change in time. 

Since the meter is defined with help of the second and that as some 
counting of a clock, we have to think about spacetime having no 
dimensions at all, other than radians and i. 

The scale has to be put in by hand, according to the scale of the system 
observed. Even as this seems to be unsatisfactory, the world we live in, 
behaves like having just such fractal properties. 

The plank unit h (units of angular momentum) could provide the size of a fundamental unit sphere, 
since a sphere in spacetime has a volume with units of an action. 





TH

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#452512

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 14:36 +0000
Message-ID<p88nm5$1ee8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452511
David (Kronos Prime) Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thomas Heger
> Hi NG 
> 
> while sorting out old stuff on old harddrives, I have found this nice 
> little text, which I had written about 2010 for 'BAUT' forum. 
> 
> Hope you like that: 
> 
> ****************************************************************** 
> 
> 
> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 

You should be careful here. The formulation of the interval above really
only applies to spacelike intervals. For timelike intervals, the interval
is written as 
 ds²= (cdt)² - dx² - dy² - dz².

You’re going to see why just below, where you take the case dx = dy = dz =
0, which is explicitly a timelike interval. 

Now you may ask, why doesn’t one formulation of the interval work for both?
The reason is the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally
different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone. It is
not really possible to formulate a common expression for both regions with
introducing weird stuff like imaginary distances. So one should not try.
One should just be careful to use the right expression for the right
region. 

> That is (cdt)² +ds²=dx² + dy² + dz². 
> 
> Along the lightcone we have ds=0, hence could take the square root and 
> get units of meters - as expected. 
> 
> For dx=dy=dz=0 we get ds²= -1 * c²dt² . We have to take the square root 
> of –1, what is the imaginary unit  i and get  i*cdt=ds, or ‘imaginary 
> meters’. 
> 
> For dt=0 we have a negative ds². In spacelike direction we have 
> sqrt(ds²) =sqrt(dx² + dy² + dz²), 
> 
> what has units of meters/i. 
> 
> The term ds seems to be the magnitude of a matrix, indicating the amount 
> of change in space and time, if you think in terms of four vectors a=a0 
> + a1 e1 + a2 e2 + a3 e3, then 
> det(a) = |a|2 = ao² - a1² - a2² - a3². 
> 
> The velocities in spacetime seems to be dimensionless: meter per meter. 
> 
> So we could use radians as units for velocity. 
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/xrSxQ4a2rON6XiiY2
> 
> Than we have dimensions 
> of meters per meter or an ‘imaginary angle’. 
> 
> Since here I treat objects as 'self-centred' (at rest in respect to 
> itself), we could make the angle zero along the timeline and the circle 
> perpendicular  timeless, hence |a|2 = a a^-1  . 
> 
> A full circle provides a tick at some kind of clock. Since it has this 
> is an anti-symmetric behavior and the clock behaves somehow similar a 
> pendulum, swinging back and forth. 
> 
> http://cds.cern.ch/record/516564/files/0109005.pdf
> 
> On the reversal of sign of secondary Bjerknes force acting between two
> pulsating gas bubbles
> 
> 
> In spacetime perspective, that pendulum could be visualized as a 
> pointer, pointing up and down. That is like a pointer, which is
> performing a circle around a spacelike axis. 
> 
> Actually we have three spacelike axes, hence each could provide a clock 
> and we have to add the change in space along each axis to the total 
> change in time. 
> 
> Since the meter is defined with help of the second and that as some 
> counting of a clock, we have to think about spacetime having no 
> dimensions at all, other than radians and i. 
> 
> The scale has to be put in by hand, according to the scale of the system 
> observed. Even as this seems to be unsatisfactory, the world we live in, 
> behaves like having just such fractal properties. 
> 
> The plank unit h (units of angular momentum) could provide the size of a
> fundamental unit sphere, 
> since a sphere in spacetime has a volume with units of an action. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TH
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452513

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 07:51 -0700
Message-ID<3c10277f-f46e-4677-9eda-487432662013@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452512
Odd Bodkin
David (Kronos Prime) Fuller <fuller...@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Thomas Heger 
> Hi NG 
> 
> while sorting out old stuff on old harddrives, I have found this nice 
> little text, which I had written about 2010 for 'BAUT' forum. 
> 
> Hope you like that: 
> 
> ****************************************************************** 
> 
> 
> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 

You should be careful here. The formulation of the interval above really 
only applies to spacelike intervals. For timelike intervals, the interval 
is written as 
 ds²= (cdt)² - dx² - dy² - dz². 

You’re going to see why just below, where you take the case dx = dy = dz = 
0, which is explicitly a timelike interval. 

Now you may ask, why doesn’t one formulation of the interval work for both? 
The reason is the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally 
different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone. 


It is not really possible to formulate a common expression for both regions with introducing weird stuff like imaginary distances. 

So one should not try. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XGlUbdgp1BmWFLLh2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DK70uQgSdhA3mbMm1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wtkUjSXZgmTfoNsx1




One should just be careful to use the right expression for the right region. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452516

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 08:34 -0700
Message-ID<87517f3d-2523-4dad-b71b-fb304d2bce46@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452513
Now you may ask, why doesn’t one formulation of the interval work for both? 
The reason is the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally 
different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone. 


It is not really possible to formulate a common expression for both regions with introducing weird stuff like imaginary distances. 

So one should not try. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XGlUbdgp1BmWFLLh2 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DK70uQgSdhA3mbMm1 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wtkUjSXZgmTfoNsx1 


But that is Exactly what the Schwarzschild radius of a black hole is... an “imaginary distance”. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wtkUjSXZgmTfoNsx1
http://cds.cern.ch/record/516564/files/0109005.pdf

It is known that in a certain case, the secondary Bjerknes force, which is a radiation force acting between pulsating bubbles, changes (e.g., from attractive to repulsive) as the bubbles approach each other. In this letter, a theoretical discussion of this phenomenon is given. The present theory, based on analysis of the eigenfrequencies of interacting bubbles, gives an accurate interpretation, which differs from previous ones (e.g., by Doinikov and Zavtrak [Phys. Fluids 7, 1923-1930 (1995)]), of the phenomenon. It is shown, for example, that the first reversal, occurring when both bubbles are larger than the resonance size and the damping effect is sufficiently small, is due to the highest eigenfrequency of the larger bubble.

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#452518

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 09:20 -0700
Message-ID<3963ef67-2e08-4acf-8096-b45f16b95aab@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452512
On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker wrote:
> Thomas Heger

> > ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 
>
> The formulation of the interval only applies to spacelike intervals.

This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not applicable in reality.  <shrug>

> you take the case dx = dy = dz = 0, which is explicitly a timelike
> interval. 

This implies the geometry being described by the observer using (t, x, y, z) is stationary to this observer.  <shrug>

> the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally
> different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone...

Absolute nonsense.  <shrug>

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#452519

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 16:27 +0000
Message-ID<p88u5v$1rao$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452518
Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> wrote:
> On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker wrote:
>> Thomas Heger
> 
>>> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 
>> 
>> The formulation of the interval only applies to spacelike intervals.
> 
> This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not
> applicable in reality.  <shrug>

Metrics do not allow anything. Defining a metric doesn’t tell you anything
about travel. 
Idiot. If you don’t know what the terms in a mathematical expression mean,
you should attempt to use the mathematical expressions. 

> 
>> you take the case dx = dy = dz = 0, which is explicitly a timelike
>> interval. 
> 
> This implies the geometry being described by the observer using (t, x, y,
> z) is stationary to this observer.  <shrug>

Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot. 



> 
>> the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally
>> different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone...
> 
> Absolute nonsense.  <shrug>
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452520

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 16:28 +0000
Message-ID<p88u7i$1rgl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452519
Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote:
> Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker wrote:
>>> Thomas Heger
>> 
>>>> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz². 
>>> 
>>> The formulation of the interval only applies to spacelike intervals.
>> 
>> This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not
>> applicable in reality.  <shrug>
> 
> Metrics do not allow anything. Defining a metric doesn’t tell you anything
> about travel. 
> Idiot. If you don’t know what the terms in a mathematical expression mean,
> you should attempt to use the mathematical expressions. 

...should not...

> 
>> 
>>> you take the case dx = dy = dz = 0, which is explicitly a timelike
>>> interval. 
>> 
>> This implies the geometry being described by the observer using (t, x, y,
>> z) is stationary to this observer.  <shrug>
> 
> Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot. 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> the structure of spacetime, where there are two fundamentally
>>> different regions: inside the light cone and outside the light cone...
>> 
>> Absolute nonsense.  <shrug>
>> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452523

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 09:45 -0700
Message-ID<b62f9c81-199b-4165-8963-877049b0fdd2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452519
On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker:
> Koobee Wublee wrote:

> > This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not
> > applicable in reality.  <shrug>
> 
> Metrics do not allow anything...
> Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot. 

Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!  <shrug>

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#452527

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2018-03-13 18:39 +0100
Message-ID<fgqglmFcohhU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#452523
Am 13.03.2018 um 17:45 schrieb Koobee Wublee:
> On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker:
>> Koobee Wublee wrote:
>
>>> This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not
>>> applicable in reality.  <shrug>
>>
>> Metrics do not allow anything...
>> Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot.
>
> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!  <shrug>
>


I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at rest.

The trajectory of the observer is ignored and set to zero velocity.

This is possible because of the equivalence principle. (IOW: we don't 
know, how fast we move)

This is so for all possible observer in any possible state.

These observers are 'self-centered' and the world they observe is called 
'universe' (by them).

Those universes are not the same, since any observer sees a different 
one from a different point of view.

This is not really satisfying, but doesn't matter very much, since this 
is simply how we see the world.

The trajectory of the observer is called 'timelike' and the space he 
observers is his past light cone (which is different for every observer).

The lightcone has an angle of 45° in respect to the timeline.



TH

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#452528

FromTérov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik>
Date2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
Message-ID<p892ue$9qh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452527
Thomas Heger wrote:

>> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer
>> using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe
>> this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry
>> (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!  <shrug>
> 
> I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at res

Impossible. The has a certain valued mechanic and electric impedance. That 
impedance comes from something, thus that observer will be moving wrt 
that. People are talking nonsense in relativity around here.

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#452529

FromTérov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik>
Date2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
Message-ID<p892vo$9qh$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452528
Térov Balónky wrote:

> Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
>>> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer
>>> using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe
>>> this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry
>>> (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot! 
>>> <shrug>
>> 
>> I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at res
> 
> Impossible. The has a certain valued mechanic and electric impedance.
> That impedance comes from something, thus that observer will be moving
> wrt that. People are talking nonsense in relativity around here.

"The empty space has".

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#452614

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2018-03-14 13:54 +0100
Message-ID<fgskciFr893U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#452529
Am 13.03.2018 um 18:49 schrieb Térov Balónky:

>>>> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer
>>>> using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe
>>>> this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry
>>>> (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!
>>>> <shrug>
>>>
>>> I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at res
>>
>> Impossible. The has a certain valued mechanic and electric impedance.
>> That impedance comes from something, thus that observer will be moving
>> wrt that. People are talking nonsense in relativity around here.
>
> "The empty space has".
>


The assumption of an eternal empty space is one of Newtons axioms. But I 
tried to prove, that the 4d view of Herman Minkowski is actually correct.

I use a spacetime concept similar to that of Minkowski and try to 
connect this to quantum mechanics.

The concept I call 'structured spacetime', where such structures are 
what we call matter.

I have written kind of book about it, that could be found here:


https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6


TH

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#452626

FromTérov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik>
Date2018-03-14 16:02 +0000
Message-ID<p8bh1p$afu$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452614
Thomas Heger wrote:

>>>> I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at rest
>>>
>>> Impossible. The has a certain valued mechanic and electric impedance.
>>> That impedance comes from something, thus that observer will be moving
>>> wrt that. People are talking nonsense in relativity around here.
>>
>> "The empty space has".
> 
> The assumption of an eternal empty space is one of Newtons axioms. But I
> tried to prove, that the 4d view of Herman Minkowski is actually
> correct.

Good point. And yet another flagrant error in Relativity. You cant declare 
anything at rest in spacetime. In space yes, but not in spacetime. 
According their own theory and definitions.

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#452679

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2018-03-14 21:47 +0100
Message-ID<fgtg2eF32m6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#452626
Am 14.03.2018 um 17:02 schrieb Térov Balónky:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>
>>>>> I use the convention, that the observer declares himself as at rest
>>>>
>>>> Impossible. The has a certain valued mechanic and electric impedance.
>>>> That impedance comes from something, thus that observer will be moving
>>>> wrt that. People are talking nonsense in relativity around here.
>>>
>>> "The empty space has".
>>
>> The assumption of an eternal empty space is one of Newtons axioms. But I
>> tried to prove, that the 4d view of Herman Minkowski is actually
>> correct.
>
> Good point. And yet another flagrant error in Relativity. You cant declare
> anything at rest in spacetime. In space yes, but not in spacetime.
> According their own theory and definitions.
>


Well, I don't say, that something is at rest.

I use the equivalence principle, which says, that you cannot decide 
between inertial motion and being at rest.

This enables me to say, that I can declare anything to be at rest.

For reasons of convenience and because of consistency to every-day 
experience I say, the observer is at rest (by definition).

This is kind of 'subjectivism', because any observer gets similar rights 
and therefor one observer is at rest in his own FoR, while in motion in 
the FoRs of other observers.

This is not really satisfying. But to be happy is not a scientific 
requirement. It is only a useful convention.

And it is also the same way as we actually see the world: from our own 
point of view.

But humans on planet Earth share a certain view: vertically up.

The common denominator of human observations is our collective view into 
the sky.

What we see there we call 'universe'.

But we do not realize, that this 'universe' is not really universal.


TH

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#452536

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 18:02 +0000
Message-ID<p893o0$cca$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452523
Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> wrote:
> On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PD) the wooden sex toy maker:
>> Koobee Wublee wrote:
> 
>>> This metric only allows faster than light which means it is not
>>> applicable in reality.  <shrug>
>> 
>> Metrics do not allow anything...
>> Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot. 
> 
> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer using
> the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe this
> geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry (an
> object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!  <shrug>
> 

Koobee, you are highly amusing when you look at equations and then just
fabricate strings of words to try to describe what they mean. And if anyone
points out references that are in conflict with what you just said, then
you declare your omniscient and exclusive understanding, despite what
anybody else says. You don’t seem to understand that claims of exclusive
omniscience are symptoms of serious mental illness. 

Nice posturing, though. Well puffed. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452537

FromTérov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik>
Date2018-03-13 18:12 +0000
Message-ID<p894ak$9qh$7@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452536
Odd Bodkin wrote:

>>> Metrics do not allow anything...
>>> Geometry doesn’t have a motion status. Idiot.
>> 
>> Nonsense.  The geometry is projected to or observed by an observer
>> using the coordinate system (t, x, y, z) and the metric to describe
>> this geometry.  Of course, this observation allows for this geometry
>> (an object) in motion to be observed by this observer.  Idiot!  <shrug>
>> 
>> 
> Koobee, you are highly amusing when you look at equations and then just
> fabricate strings of words to try to describe what they mean. And if

So true indeed. That's exactly the difference from physics. In math Dr. 
Koobee may do that, however in physics the constraints has to be well 
defined, otherwise the whole thing will splash. Relativity is mostly about 
splashes.

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#452543

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2018-03-13 22:00 +0100
Message-ID<1_WpC.124337$a15.44105@fx22.am4>
In reply to#452512
Den 13.03.2018 15.36, skrev Odd Bodkin:
> Thomas Heger
>>
>> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz².

metric signature (-,+,+,+)

> 
> You should be careful here. The formulation of the interval above really
> only applies to spacelike intervals. For timelike intervals, the interval
> is written as
>   ds²= (cdt)² - dx² - dy² - dz².

metric signature (+,-,-,-)

see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_convention

You will find that both signatures are used
in the literature, but it is not common to mix them,
the same metric is used for both time-like and space-like intervals.

Misner & Thorne & Wheeler: "Gravitation"  use (-,+,+,+)
Carroll: "Spacetime and Geometry" use (-,+,+,+)
d'Inverno: "Introducing Einstein's Relativiy" use (+,-,-,-)
Taylor & Wheeler: "Spacetime Physics" use (+,-,-,-)

With the signature (-,+,+,+) a positive space time interval s^2
will be space like, s = sqrt(s^2), while a negative s^2 will be 
time-like,  \tau = sqrt(-s^2/c^2).

With the signature (+,-,-,-) a negative space time interval s^2
will be space like, s = sqrt(-s^2), while a positive s^2 will be 
time-like,  \tau = sqrt(s^2/c^2).


-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#452551

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-13 22:55 +0000
Message-ID<p89kt8$1b9i$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#452543
Paul B. Andersen <relativity@paulba.no> wrote:
> Den 13.03.2018 15.36, skrev Odd Bodkin:
>> Thomas Heger
>>> 
>>> ds²= -(cdt)² + dx² + dy² + dz².
> 
> metric signature (-,+,+,+)
> 
>> 
>> You should be careful here. The formulation of the interval above really
>> only applies to spacelike intervals. For timelike intervals, the interval
>> is written as
>> ds²= (cdt)² - dx² - dy² - dz².
> 
> metric signature (+,-,-,-)
> 
> see:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_convention
> 
> You will find that both signatures are used
> in the literature, but it is not common to mix them,
> the same metric is used for both time-like and space-like intervals.
> 
> Misner & Thorne & Wheeler: "Gravitation"  use (-,+,+,+)
> Carroll: "Spacetime and Geometry" use (-,+,+,+)
> d'Inverno: "Introducing Einstein's Relativiy" use (+,-,-,-)
> Taylor & Wheeler: "Spacetime Physics" use (+,-,-,-)
> 
> With the signature (-,+,+,+) a positive space time interval s^2
> will be space like, s = sqrt(s^2), while a negative s^2 will be 
> time-like,  \tau = sqrt(-s^2/c^2).
> 
> With the signature (+,-,-,-) a negative space time interval s^2
> will be space like, s = sqrt(-s^2), while a positive s^2 will be 
> time-like,  \tau = sqrt(s^2/c^2).
> 
> 

Agreed. And notice what -s^2 looks like when expressed in components in
flat space. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#452628

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-14 09:19 -0700
Message-ID<72eb5a94-8d6b-47c8-8e84-249ed2c718b0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#452551
On March 13, 2018, Odd Bodkin (aka PF) the wooden sex toy maker wrote:
> Paul B. Andersen wrote:

> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_convention
>
> > You will find that both signatures are used in the literature, but
> > it is not common to mix them, the same metric is used for both
> > time-like and space-like intervals.
>
> Agreed. And notice what -s^2 looks like when expressed in components in
> flat space. 

With the (-,+,+,+) signature, ds² is negative.  To normal people, one would ask WTF when the distance becomes an imaginary number, but not to Einstein dingleberries, it is another day in the la-la land of make believe science aka mysticism.  <shrug>

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