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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #398687 > unrolled thread

Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory

Started by"Edgar L. Owen" <edgar@edgarlowen.com>
First post2016-11-17 06:21 -0800
Last post2016-12-08 12:46 +1100
Articles 20 on this page of 134 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Edgar L. Owen" <edgar@edgarlowen.com> - 2016-11-17 06:21 -0800
    Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-17 12:23 -0800
    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Edwin Grünner <edwgr@menckensite.org> - 2016-11-17 20:59 +0000
      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-18 05:03 +0100
        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory kelleher.gerald@gmail.com - 2016-11-17 21:52 -0800
    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-19 06:32 +0100
      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-18 21:58 -0800
      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Edgar L. Owen" <edgar@edgarlowen.com> - 2016-11-19 08:51 -0800
        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-19 09:01 -0800
        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-19 09:13 -0800
          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-20 07:00 +0100
            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-20 06:08 -0800
              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-20 10:46 -0800
              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-20 20:44 +0100
                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Edgar L. Owen" <edgar@edgarlowen.com> - 2016-11-20 15:01 -0800
                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 18:51 -0800
                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-21 06:18 +0100
                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-20 21:47 -0800
                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-20 19:52 -0800
                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-21 05:58 +0100
                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-20 21:36 -0800
                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-21 23:05 +0100
                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-21 16:12 -0800
                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-22 07:28 +0100
                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-21 22:58 -0800
                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-21 23:13 -0800
                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-22 05:17 -0800
                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-23 07:28 +0100
                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-23 04:17 -0800
                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-23 09:32 -0800
                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-23 21:51 +0100
                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-24 04:28 +0100
                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-23 20:17 -0800
                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-23 20:29 -0800
                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-23 20:42 -0800
                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-24 08:03 +0100
                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 08:22 -0800
                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-24 09:23 -0800
                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-24 09:24 -0800
                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-24 23:35 +0100
                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-24 15:37 -0800
                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 16:12 -0800
                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-26 06:55 +0100
                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-25 22:06 -0800
                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-26 04:19 -0800
                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Marion Vanriper <Marion@Vanriper.info> - 2016-11-26 12:56 +0000
                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-26 06:57 -0800
                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Drew Kissel <ewlislrDsw@ewlislrDsw.ewl> - 2016-11-26 15:30 +0000
                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 07:40 -0800
                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 07:48 -0800
                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Drew Kissel <ewlislrDsw@ewlislrDsw.ewl> - 2016-11-26 16:03 +0000
                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 08:11 -0800
                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 08:35 -0800
                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 08:40 -0800
                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Drew Kissel <ewlislrDsw@ewlislrDsw.ewl> - 2016-11-26 16:54 +0000
                                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 09:03 -0800
                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Drew Kissel <ewlislrDsw@ewlislrDsw.ewl> - 2016-11-26 17:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-26 20:54 +0100
                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-26 13:03 -0800
                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 15:49 -0800
                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-27 04:59 +0100
                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 20:08 -0800
                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-27 22:35 +0100
                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-27 13:46 -0800
                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-26 20:52 -0800
                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 21:05 -0800
                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-27 22:32 +0100
                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-27 13:40 -0800
                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-27 14:06 -0800
                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-27 14:12 -0800
                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-27 16:28 -0800
                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-28 05:07 +0100
                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-28 04:26 -0800
                                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-29 05:19 +0100
                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-28 21:21 -0800
                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-30 02:50 +0100
                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-29 18:52 -0800
                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-30 08:30 +0100
                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-29 19:21 -0800
                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-30 08:21 +0100
                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-30 04:53 -0800
                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-30 05:56 -0800
                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-30 21:44 +0100
                                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-30 18:59 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-01 08:21 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-30 23:42 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-01 05:04 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-01 05:47 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-02 05:14 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-03 07:03 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-03 04:02 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-03 19:56 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-03 11:19 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 14:22 -0600
                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-03 23:07 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Julian Alewine <lliian@lliianenpo.org> - 2016-12-03 22:36 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-04 03:19 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-03 14:38 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-06 08:30 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:10 -0600
                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:23 -0600
                                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-06 01:20 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 06:40 -0600
                                                                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-06 22:12 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 15:22 -0600
                                                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-07 06:21 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 22:23 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 11:40 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-07 11:43 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Chantell Dillingham <intlii@dtilnignii.org> - 2016-12-07 20:00 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-07 18:08 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-07 18:20 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-07 22:13 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-08 08:49 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 06:15 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-08 23:06 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-08 14:45 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-08 15:02 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-12-08 08:14 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 13:05 -0600
                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-12 20:32 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 14:41 -0600
                                                                                                              Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-13 01:02 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-12 17:55 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-13 08:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-13 05:20 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-13 14:40 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-13 08:18 -0800
                                                                                                                          Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-12-13 21:34 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-13 13:55 -0800
                                                                    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-28 21:45 -0800
                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-03 07:17 +0100
                                                                      Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-12-06 08:57 +0100
    Re: Unification of Relativity & Quantum Theory Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-08 12:46 +1100

Page 5 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7  Next page →


#400282

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-11-30 04:53 -0800
Message-ID<eab38c2e-9e5c-44c3-bff3-fd400bd57b31@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400267
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 12:22:07 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> Am 30.11.2016 04:21, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> >
> > > I'm not at all against relativity. I only speak against SRT.
> >
> > Now you're being REALLY stupid.  SR>IS<  relativity.
> 
> No.

YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the
memo?

> There is also a variant of relativity, that was invented by Herman 
> Minkowski.
> 
> This was not SRT, but Minkowski assumed a four-dimensional continuum 
> (spacetime), from which we have a certain perspective as time plus space.

Baloney.  It's just a different way of presenting relativity.

> Another variation stems from Henry Poincare and one from Hendrik Lorentz.

Aether theories are just more baloney.

> We have also general relativity, which is an entirely different concept 
> as well.

No, it's not.  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  You are really
dense if you don't understand that.

>  From GR exist a variant, which uses complex four vectors (instead of
> tensors).

You are getting crazier by the post.

> I refer to this variant of GR and more or less on the ideas of Minkowski.
> 
> 
>   TH

Like I said, you haven't a clue about what relativity is.

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#400288

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 05:56 -0800
Message-ID<5ad8c2c9-baeb-478d-ae3f-db95daa80314@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400282

YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the 
memo? 


Yes 
that is why 
Bulk Elastic Modulus & Wave Speed formulas fit & work so well in an isometric orthogonal matrix of circles 
http://i68.tinypic.com/2poegcm.jpg

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#400375

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-11-30 21:44 +0100
Message-ID<ea8s1jFo32uU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400282
Am 30.11.2016 13:53, schrieb Gary Harnagel:

>>>> I'm not at all against relativity. I only speak against SRT.
>>>
>>> Now you're being REALLY stupid.  SR>IS<   relativity.
>>
>> No.
>
> YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the
> memo?

Yes. But what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?

Apparently you mean something like "flat, empty Newtonian space".
Right?

And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain 
perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.

IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.

I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.

What we call 'space' is actually our own past light cone.

Since we are observers, our space is observer dependent.

>> There is also a variant of relativity, that was invented by Herman
>> Minkowski.
>>
>> This was not SRT, but Minkowski assumed a four-dimensional continuum
>> (spacetime), from which we have a certain perspective as time plus space.
>
> Baloney.  It's just a different way of presenting relativity.

No.

As far as I can  tell the concept of Minkowski was quite different to SRT.

And SRT is wrong (in my opinion).


>> Another variation stems from Henry Poincare and one from Hendrik Lorentz.
>
> Aether theories are just more baloney.

I don't want to promote aether theories. I mentioned Poincare Lorentz, 
because they have developed their own versions of relativity.



...


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#400400

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-11-30 18:59 -0800
Message-ID<fba8f47a-d661-4d0c-8f75-b83bc921d407@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400375
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 1:44:40 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> Am 30.11.2016 13:53, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> >
> > > > > I'm not at all against relativity. I only speak against SRT.
> > > >
> > > > Now you're being REALLY stupid.  SR>IS<   relativity.
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the
> > memo?
> 
> Yes. But what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?

Any situation where the mass doesn't change the predictions of SR.
You are trying to obfuscate rather than enlighten.

> Apparently you mean something like "flat, empty Newtonian space".
> Right?

Not necessarily.  Again, you are obfuscating.

> And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain 
> perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.
> 
> IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.
> 
> I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.

And that is pure baloney.

> What we call 'space' is actually our own past light cone.

More baloney.

> Since we are observers, our space is observer dependent.
> 
> > > There is also a variant of relativity, that was invented by Herman
> > > Minkowski.
> > >
> > > This was not SRT, but Minkowski assumed a four-dimensional continuum
> > > (spacetime), from which we have a certain perspective as time plus space.
> >
> > Baloney.  It's just a different way of presenting relativity.
> 
> No.

Yes!  You are frantically obfuscating.

> As far as I can  tell the concept of Minkowski was quite different to SRT.

Nope.  It is merely a different way of presenting of the LT equations.

> And SRT is wrong (in my opinion).

You have presented NO evidence to back up your bizarre assertion.

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed
opinion.  No one is entitled to be ignorant." — Harlan Ellison

> > > Another variation stems from Henry Poincare and one from Hendrik Lorentz.
> >
> > Aether theories are just more baloney.
> 
> I don't want to promote aether theories. I mentioned Poincare Lorentz, 
> because they have developed their own versions of relativity.
> ...
> 
> 
> TH

Wrong.  They developed aether theories.  Such theories have no traction.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#400419

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-01 08:21 +0100
Message-ID<eaa1b7F1k2gU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400400
Am 01.12.2016 03:59, schrieb Gary Harnagel:

>>>>>> I'm not at all against relativity. I only speak against SRT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now you're being REALLY stupid.  SR>IS<    relativity.
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>> YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the
>>> memo?
>>
>> Yes. But what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?
>
> Any situation where the mass doesn't change the predictions of SR.
> You are trying to obfuscate rather than enlighten.
>
>> Apparently you mean something like "flat, empty Newtonian space".
>> Right?
>
> Not necessarily.  Again, you are obfuscating.


Apparently not, since I asked you a question:

"... what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?"

You can't hardly call that "obfuscating".

So, what is the meaning of 'absence of mass'?

Do we have a lot of scenarios, where there is no mass at all?



>> And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain
>> perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.
>>
>> IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.
>>
>> I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.
>
> And that is pure baloney.


I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).

'Energy' is a term that is used for process and somehow active systems 
like radiation, while the term 'mass' is more or less the opposite to 
dynamic.

Now the sign '=' means 'is equal'.

But if the energetic process is equal to an inert one, than where is 
this equality?

This could be achieved, if the axis of time is twisted and 'mass' 
translated into 'timelike stable' (or: inert).

If the axis of time points in an angle of 45°, the timelike stable 
pattern is 'light-like' (IOW is radiation).

Such process is of course know, but in the opposite direction:

the photo-electric effect.


This is: light (radiation) blocked by a metallic surface, what turns 
photons into electrons.

>> What we call 'space' is actually our own past light cone.
>
> More baloney.


No.

I use a comoving FoR for every possible observer. So EVERY observer is 
absolutely at rest (in its own FoR).

What he would see is actually his own past light cone (and NOTHING else).

If you think about it for a while, you will find, that the term 
'universe' is a perfect match to what is called 'past light cone'.

So: 'the universe' is not universal at all, but the local impression of 
something, we cannot observe directly.

This is because every observe observes a different universe, filled with 
different stars.

We humans see the same sky, because we belong to the same 'time domain', 
what makes human clocks tick at the same rate.

But this is not a necessity and we could assume clocks, that run into 
the opposite direction or universes with an axis of time in an angle.
...


TH

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#400423

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 23:42 -0800
Message-ID<b8670699-2975-4adc-be08-95773cedfee6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400419
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 01.12.2016 03:59, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> 
> >>>>>> I'm not at all against relativity. I only speak against SRT.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now you're being REALLY stupid.  SR>IS<    relativity.
> >>>>
> >>>> No.
> >>>
> >>> YES!!!  GR reduces to SR in the absence of mass.  Didn't you get the
> >>> memo?
> >>
> >> Yes. But what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?
> >
> > Any situation where the mass doesn't change the predictions of SR.
> > You are trying to obfuscate rather than enlighten.
> >
> >> Apparently you mean something like "flat, empty Newtonian space".
> >> Right?
> >
> > Not necessarily.  Again, you are obfuscating.
> 
> 
> Apparently not, since I asked you a question:
> 
> "... what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?"
> 
> You can't hardly call that "obfuscating".
> 
> So, what is the meaning of 'absence of mass'?
> 
> Do we have a lot of scenarios, where there is no mass at all?
> 
> 
> 
> >> And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain
> >> perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.
> >>
> >> IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.
> >>
> >> I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.
> >
> > And that is pure baloney.
> 
> 
> I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).
> 
> 'Energy' is a term that is used for process and somehow active systems 
> like radiation, while the term 'mass' is more or less the opposite to 
> dynamic.
> 
> Now the sign '=' means 'is equal'.
> 
> But if the energetic process is equal to an inert one, than where is 
> this equality?
> 
> This could be achieved, if the axis of time is twisted and 'mass' 
> translated into 'timelike stable' (or: inert).
> 
> If the axis of time points in an angle of 45°, the timelike stable 
> pattern is 'light-like' (IOW is radiation).
> 
> Such process is of course know, but in the opposite direction:
> 
> the photo-electric effect.
> 
> 
> This is: light (radiation) blocked by a metallic surface, what turns 
> photons into electrons.
> 
> >> What we call 'space' is actually our own past light cone.
> >
> > More baloney.
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I use a comoving FoR for every possible observer. So EVERY observer is 
> absolutely at rest (in its own FoR).
> 
> What he would see is actually his own past light cone (and NOTHING else).
> 
> If you think about it for a while, you will find, that the term 
> 'universe' is a perfect match to what is called 'past light cone'.
> 
> So: 'the universe' is not universal at all, but the local impression of 
> something, we cannot observe directly.
> 
> This is because every observe observes a different universe, filled with 
> different stars.
> 
> We humans see the same sky, because we belong to the same 'time domain', 
> what makes human clocks tick at the same rate.
> 
> But this is not a necessity and we could assume clocks, that run into 
> the opposite direction or universes with an axis of time in an angle.
> ...
> 
> 
> TH

So, what is the meaning of 'absence of mass'? 

Do we have a lot of scenarios, where there is no mass at all?

In physical cosmology, the hadron epoch was the period in the evolution of the early universe during which the mass of the universe was dominated by hadrons. It started approximately 10−6 seconds after the Big Bang, when the temperature of the universe had fallen sufficiently to allow the quarks from the preceding quark epoch to bind together into hadrons. Initially the temperature was high enough to allow the formation of hadron/anti-hadron pairs, which kept matter and anti-matter in thermal equilibrium. However, as the temperature of the universe continued to fall, hadron/anti-hadron pairs were no longer produced. Most of the hadrons and anti-hadrons were then eliminated in annihilation reactions, leaving a small residue of hadrons. The elimination of anti-hadrons was completed by one second after the Big Bang, when the following lepton epoch began.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadron_epoch

Quark Confinement

When the expansion of the "primordial fireball" had cooled it to 1013 Kelvin, a time modeled to be about 10e-6 seconds, the collision energies had dropped to about 1 GeV and quarks could finally hang onto each other to form individual protons and neutrons (and presumably other baryons.) At this time, all the kinds of particles which are a part of the present universe were in existence, even though the temperature was still much too high for the formation of nuclei. At this point we can join the standard "big bang" model as outlined by Steven Weinberg in The First Three Minutes.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Astro/planck.html#c7

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#400441

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-01 05:04 -0800
Message-ID<2bf23273-4af2-4926-81ce-6e656ad1efd2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400419
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:21:15 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> Am 01.12.2016 03:59, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> >
> > > Yes. But what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?
> >
> > Any situation where the mass doesn't change the predictions of SR.
> > You are trying to obfuscate rather than enlighten.
> >
> > > Apparently you mean something like "flat, empty Newtonian space".
> > > Right?
> >
> > Not necessarily.  Again, you are obfuscating.
> 
> 
> Apparently not, since I asked you a question:
> 
> "... what situation do you want to address with 'absence of mass'?"
> 
> You can't hardly call that "obfuscating".
> 
> So, what is the meaning of 'absence of mass'?

I answered that question, yet here you are still trying to twist things.

> Do we have a lot of scenarios, where there is no mass at all?

Irrelevant.  SInce you haven't been able to wrap your brain around the
concept, here it is again:

"Any situation where the mass doesn't change the predictions of SR."

And there are LOTA AND LOTS of scenarios where that condition is met.

> > > And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain
> > > perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.
> > >
> > > IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.
> > >
> > > I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.
> >
> > And that is pure baloney.
> 
> I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).

But that NEVER occurs as an observer-dependent phenomenon.

> 'Energy' is a term that is used for process and somehow active systems 
> like radiation, while the term 'mass' is more or less the opposite to 
> dynamic.
> 
> Now the sign '=' means 'is equal'.
> 
> But if the energetic process is equal to an inert one, than where is 
> this equality?
> 
> This could be achieved, if the axis of time is twisted and 'mass' 
> translated into 'timelike stable' (or: inert).

And it could happen if the moon is made of green cheese.

> If the axis of time points in an angle of 45°, the timelike stable 
> pattern is 'light-like' (IOW is radiation).
> 
> Such process is of course know, but in the opposite direction:
> 
> the photo-electric effect.
> 
> 
> This is: light (radiation) blocked by a metallic surface, what turns 
> photons into electrons.

No it doesn't.  You are profoundly confused about reality.

> > > What we call 'space' is actually our own past light cone.
> >
> > More baloney.
> 
> No.

YES!

> I use a comoving FoR for every possible observer. So EVERY observer is 
> absolutely at rest (in its own FoR).

More baloney.

> What he would see is actually his own past light cone (and NOTHING else).
> 
> If you think about it for a while, you will find, that the term 
> 'universe' is a perfect match to what is called 'past light cone'.
> 
> So: 'the universe' is not universal at all, but the local impression of 
> something, we cannot observe directly.
> 
> This is because every observe observes a different universe, filled with 
> different stars.
> 
> We humans see the same sky, because we belong to the same 'time domain', 
> what makes human clocks tick at the same rate.
> 
> But this is not a necessity and we could assume clocks, that run into 
> the opposite direction or universes with an axis of time in an angle.
> ...
> 
> 
> TH

You are a nutcase, IMHO.

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#400453

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 05:47 -0800
Message-ID<91c84a20-a6bf-45e6-ba85-88c7b2e2f5f5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400441
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 7:04:03 AM UTC-6, Gary Harnagel wrote:
> On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 12:21:15 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:

> > What he would see is actually his own past light cone (and NOTHING else).
> > 
> > If you think about it for a while, you will find, that the term 
> > 'universe' is a perfect match to what is called 'past light cone'.
> > 
> > So: 'the universe' is not universal at all, but the local impression of 
> > something, we cannot observe directly.
> > 
> > This is because every observe observes a different universe, filled with 
> > different stars.
> > 
> > We humans see the same sky, because we belong to the same 'time domain', 
> > what makes human clocks tick at the same rate.
> > 
> > But this is not a necessity and we could assume clocks, that run into 
> > the opposite direction or universes with an axis of time in an angle.
> > ...
> > 
> > 
> > TH
> 
> You are a nutcase, IMHO.

Thomas Heger IS 100% Correct.

((((1 / (6.6667e-11 / 2)) + 299792458) / 1e+9)^2) * 2 = 1836.13666626 

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#400536

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-02 05:14 +0100
Message-ID<eacaomFije6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400453
Am 01.12.2016 14:47, schrieb David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller:

>>> What he would see is actually his own past light cone (and NOTHING else).
>>>
>>> If you think about it for a while, you will find, that the term
>>> 'universe' is a perfect match to what is called 'past light cone'.
>>>
>>> So: 'the universe' is not universal at all, but the local impression of
>>> something, we cannot observe directly.
>>>
>>> This is because every observe observes a different universe, filled with
>>> different stars.
>>>
>>> We humans see the same sky, because we belong to the same 'time domain',
>>> what makes human clocks tick at the same rate.
>>>
>>> But this is not a necessity and we could assume clocks, that run into
>>> the opposite direction or universes with an axis of time in an angle.
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> TH
>>
>> You are a nutcase, IMHO.
>
> Thomas Heger IS 100% Correct.

Well, this is a statement I like.  ;-)
>
> ((((1 / (6.6667e-11 / 2)) + 299792458) / 1e+9)^2) * 2 = 1836.13666626

But, as a matter of fact, I do not understand your explanation.

Usually I prefer words, which describe, what a certain equation should 
express. Also pictures are useful (as are units).


TH

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#400662

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-03 07:03 +0100
Message-ID<eaf5hrF8neoU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400441
Am 01.12.2016 14:04, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
..
>>>> And I wrote, that 'space' is the impression we have from our certain
>>>> perspective of what Minkowski called 'spacetime'.
>>>>
>>>> IOW 'empty space' is not empty for all observers.
>>>>
>>>> I call this 'ones matter is the other ones radiation'.
>>>
>>> And that is pure baloney.
>>
>> I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).
>
> But that NEVER occurs as an observer-dependent phenomenon.

You apparently do not understand spacetime:

timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram

The angle 45° denotes equality of timelike and spacelike steps. Or: one 
step up (in time) plus one step left (or right) in space.

This angle is c (by definition).

If now the observer moves, the entire spectrum gets tilted, since the 
axis of time points towards an angle  in respect to the previous one.

Now we are entitled to decide, which observer moves and which is at rest.

So I decide, that EVERY observer is at rest.

This requires, that timelike for one observer is not the same as for others.

Since I model matter as 'timelike stable patters of/in spacetime', there 
is an unexpected effect:

with the change of the axis of time matter would disappear (or pop out 
of nowhere).

There are also other effects, which violate common logic, but would 
follow from this scheme. Among those is the so called 'big bang', which 
could be understood as the 'other side' from a black hole.

Since similar effects are known in physics,  I have some confidence, 
this scheme is actually possible (even if it violates common logic).


TH

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#400675

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-03 04:02 -0800
Message-ID<bcb5bf91-f0d1-4dde-addb-4af39e46d986@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400662
On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 11:03:44 PM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> Am 01.12.2016 14:04, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> ..
> > > I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).
> >
> > But that NEVER occurs as an observer-dependent phenomenon.
> 
> You apparently do not understand spacetime:

Nobody does, but that's irrelevant.  A body with mass NEVER looks like pure
energy (i.e., photons) form ANY inertial frame.

> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
> lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
> spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
> 
> The angle 45° denotes equality of timelike and spacelike steps. Or: one 
> step up (in time) plus one step left (or right) in space.
> 
> This angle is c (by definition).

Which no massive body can attain.

> [Remainder of baloney deleted because it's wrong]

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#400706

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-03 19:56 +0100
Message-ID<eagiqbFjagdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400675
Am 03.12.2016 13:02, schrieb Gary Harnagel:

>>>> I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).
>>>
>>> But that NEVER occurs as an observer-dependent phenomenon.
>>
>> You apparently do not understand spacetime:
>
> Nobody does, but that's irrelevant.  A body with mass NEVER looks like pure
> energy (i.e., photons) form ANY inertial frame.
>
>> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
>> lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
>> spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
>>
>> The angle 45° denotes equality of timelike and spacelike steps. Or: one
>> step up (in time) plus one step left (or right) in space.
>>
>> This angle is c (by definition).
>
> Which no massive body can attain.
>
>> [Remainder of baloney deleted because it's wrong]

But I have not written, that massive bodies move faster than c. Instead 
I wrote, that massive bodies define a FoR, in which they are at rest.

Every observer does that and we can extend this to all massive 
macroscopic objects.

The object has then the impression of 'imaginary movement' and calls 
that 'time'.

So: the axis of time is a local impression, that a local observer 
rightfully has.

Since any of these timelines are of equal rights, even if different, we 
have no 'real' timeline.

Instead we must use 'subjectivism' and see the world from where we are 
('here and now').

To make this possible 'the universe' must be a 'personal view' (hence 
not universal), what would include matter.

So matter in one universe is not (necessarily) present in another one.



TH

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#400708

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-12-03 11:19 -0800
Message-ID<d464261d-c8b8-4e45-bf36-1735d42dd051@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400706
On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 11:56:14 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> Am 03.12.2016 13:02, schrieb Gary Harnagel:
> >
> > > > > I would call that 'relativity' (or: E=m*c² if you prefer that).
> > > >
> > > > But that NEVER occurs as an observer-dependent phenomenon.
> > >
> > > You apparently do not understand spacetime:
> >
> > Nobody does, but that's irrelevant.  A body with mass NEVER looks like pure
> > energy (i.e., photons) form ANY inertial frame.
> >
> > Which no massive body can attain.
> >
> > [Remainder of baloney deleted because it's wrong]
> 
> But I have not written, that massive bodies move faster than c. Instead 
> I wrote, that massive bodies define a FoR, in which they are at rest.

So now you obfuscate.  Goodbye.

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#400717

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-03 14:22 -0600
Message-ID<o1v9im$1a30$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#400662
On 12/3/2016 12:03 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> You apparently do not understand spacetime:
>
> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
> lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
> spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram

The only one that is correct here is the one for lightlike.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#400724

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-03 23:07 +0100
Message-ID<eagu1qFlvvkU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400717
Am 03.12.2016 21:22, schrieb Odd Bodkin:

>> You apparently do not understand spacetime:
>>
>> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
>> lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
>> spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
>
> The only one that is correct here is the one for lightlike.

I base my understanding of relativity on ideas of Herman Minkowski.

(This is a little different to the idea of Einstein.)

My assumption is, that the imaginary unit 'i' could be understood as 
angle in spacetime.

So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what 
represents 90°).

IOW: spacetime could be interpreted as complex numbers and a Minkowski 
diagram is a certain form of an Argand diagram.

For some reason I want the axis of time to be real. The inverse is 
spacelike.

Now I assume a combination of both relations (timelike and spacelike) to 
enable 'standing rotation waves' and those are, what we call 'matter'.

So matter would depend on that axis of time and would exist only in its 
own 'time domain'.

Since the axis of the Argand diagram could be rotated, the relations 
between space, time and matter should behave similar.

This rotation angle is actually a velocity in a FoR. So rotating the 
axis of time would cause 'length contraction' (to material objects) as 
relativistic effect.

And at the angle of 45 ° ( =speed of light) the length would shrink to 
zero and the object is gone.

But it is only gone in the initial FoR, not in the comoving FoR, where 
the object is at rest.

Seen  from there the initial starting point is gone (vanished in a black 
hole).


This is certainly a unusual interpretation of relativity, but it enables 
to explain a variety of different observation. So I'm quite convince, 
that my idea is correct and we find in nature the mechanism I have 
described.

btw: here come the link to my 'book' again

https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6

TH

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#400725

FromJulian Alewine <lliian@lliianenpo.org>
Date2016-12-03 22:36 +0000
Message-ID<o1vhcq$1mra$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#400724
Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 03.12.2016 21:22, schrieb Odd Bodkin:
> 
>>> You apparently do not understand spacetime:
>>>
>>> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer lightlike means:
>>> has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram spacelike means: has the
>>> angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
>>
>> The only one that is correct here is the one for lightlike.
> 
> I base my understanding of relativity on ideas of Herman Minkowski.
> 
> (This is a little different to the idea of Einstein.)
> 
> My assumption is, that the imaginary unit 'i' could be understood as
> angle in spacetime.
> 
> So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what
> represents 90°).

╔═╔═╔══╔╔╦╔═╔╗╔╦╗─╔╗╔╦╔╗╔╗╔═╔╗╔╔══╗─
║═║║╚╗╔╔║╔║═║║║║║─║╚║║║║║║║╚║╚╔╚╗╔╝─
║═║║─║║║║║║═║╚╚╗║─║║║║║╚║╚╠╗║║║─║║──
╚═╚╩─╚╝╚╚╝╚═╚═─╚╝─╚═╚═╚═╚═╚═╚╩╚─╚╝──
 
> IOW: spacetime could be interpreted as complex numbers and a Minkowski
> diagram is a certain form of an Argand diagram.
> 
> For some reason I want the axis of time to be real. The inverse is
> spacelike.

╔═╔═─╔╗─╔══╔╗╔═╔══╗─╔╦╔═╔═╔═╔═╔═╗─╔╔═╗─
║║║║╔╝║─╚╗╔║╚║║╚╗╔╝─║╔║═║║║╚║║║║║─╔║╚╣─
║╦║║║║║──║║║║║╦─║║──║║║═║╦╠╗║║║║║─║╠╗║─
╚╩╚╩╚═╝──╚╝╚╩╚╩─╚╝──╚╝╚═╚╩╚═╚═╚╩╝─╚╚═╝─
╔╗╔╗╔╗
╚╝╚╝╚╝

> This rotation angle is actually a velocity in a FoR. So rotating the
> axis of time would cause 'length contraction' (to material objects) as
> relativistic effect.
> And at the angle of 45 ° ( =speed of light) the length would shrink to
> zero and the object is gone.

╔─╔╔╔═╔══╗──╔╦╦╔═╔╦╔╗─╔╗─╔╗╔╔╔═╔╗╔═╔══╔═╗─
╔╔╝╔║║╚╗╔╝──║║║║║║║║║╔╝║─║║║╔║║║║║║╚╗╔║═╣─
║║║║║║─║║───║║║║║║║║╚║║║─╚╗╔║║║║╚║╦─║║║═╣─
╚╚═╚╚═─╚╝─╝─╚══╚═╚═╚═╚═╝──╚╝╚╚═╚═╚╩─╚╝╚═╝─
╔═╔╗╔╗──╔╗╔═╔╦╦╔═╗─╔═╔═╗─╔═╔╗╔╦╔═╔╔═╔═╗─
║║║║║║──║║║║║║║║╚╣─║║║═╣─║║║╚║║║╚╔║╔║╚╣─
║╦║╚║╚╗─║╚║╦║║║╠╗║─║║║╔╝─║╔║║╚╗╠╗║║╚╠╗║─
╚╩╚═╚═╝─╚═╚╩╚══╚═╝─╚═╚╝──╚╝╚╩─╚╚═╚╚═╚═╝─
╔╔═╗─╔══╔╗╔═╗─╔╦╦╔═╔╦╔╗─╔╗
╔║║║─╚╗╔║╚║═╣─║║║║║║╔║║╔╝║
║║║║──║║║║║═╣─║║║║║║║║╚║║║
╚╚╩╝──╚╝╚╩╚═╝─╚══╚═╚╝╚═╚═╝

> btw: here come the link to my 'book' again 
> https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6
> TH

╔═╔═╔══╔╗╔╔═╔═╗─────
║║║║╚╗╔║╚╔║║║╔╝─────
║║║║─║║║║║║║║╩╣╔╗╔╗╔╗
╚╩╚═─╚╝╚╩╚╚╩╚═╝╚╝╚╝╚╝

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#400734

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-04 03:19 +0100
Message-ID<eahcq1Fp785U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400725
Am 03.12.2016 23:36, schrieb Julian Alewine:

>>>> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer lightlike means:
>>>> has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram spacelike means: has the
>>>> angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
>>>
>>> The only one that is correct here is the one for lightlike.
>>
>> I base my understanding of relativity on ideas of Herman Minkowski.
>>
>> (This is a little different to the idea of Einstein.)
>>
>> My assumption is, that the imaginary unit 'i' could be understood as
>> angle in spacetime.
>>
>> So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what
>> represents 90°).
>


The main point is this picture:

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/World_line.svg/300px-World_line.svg.png 
 >

 From here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_cone

The light-cone is reduced in dimensions. So the missing dimension has to 
be put in again by 'multiplying the picture by three'.

It's not that obvious, but we have to take the light cone and 'pump it 
up', to get the real meaning of it.

This would require three perpendicular axis of time and three 
perpendicular planes called 'now'.


The cones are then 'nested spheres'. This means:  further away is older 
(along the past light cone).

Now this past light cone is, what the observer calls 'universe'. (in 
reality it is a picture, the observer receives from the past)

Now have a look at the hyperplane of the present.

This plane is comoving and accessible only without delay (has no time 
component).

The realm is invisible, but real. What is there looks static (does not 
change), since the connection is infinitely fast.

This is a good description of a static field.

Now this is visible only in close proximity and as tiny sphere around 
the axis of time. This circle is actually a tiny static sphere around an 
inert core. IOW: this looks like an atom.

Only this 'atom' is made more or less from nothing. It is a 'structure' 
of spacetime. And it depends on the axis of time of the observer to be 
material. (for other observers it is not a material object).



>
>> btw: here come the link to my 'book' again
>> https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6

>
> ╔═╔═╔══╔╗╔╔═╔═╗─────
> ║║║║╚╗╔║╚╔║║║╔╝─────
> ║║║║─║║║║║║║║╩╣╔╗╔╗╔╗
> ╚╩╚═─╚╝╚╩╚╚╩╚═╝╚╝╚╝╚╝
>

interesting 'ASCII arts', but certainly inappropriate in this context.

TH

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#400726

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2016-12-03 14:38 -0800
Message-ID<38dacffe-c930-42cb-a39f-a2aca4d3b314@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#400724
Thomas Heger wrote:

So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what 
represents 90°). 

0 degrees- 405 degrees = -90

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#400935

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-12-06 08:30 +0100
Message-ID<ean7ocF70lnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#400726
Am 03.12.2016 23:38, schrieb David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>
> So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what
> represents 90°).
>
> 0 degrees- 405 degrees = -90

I have found two pages, that you would eventually like.

One is about knots and called 'Knot Atlas':

http://katlas.math.toronto.edu/wiki/Main_Page

The other is about circles:

http://www.math.utk.edu/~kens/

TH

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#400841

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-05 08:10 -0600
Message-ID<o23sh4$1vvh$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#400724
On 12/3/2016 4:07 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 03.12.2016 21:22, schrieb Odd Bodkin:
>
>>> You apparently do not understand spacetime:
>>>
>>> timelike means: is stable in the view of the observer
>>> lightlike means: has the angle of 45° in a spacetime diagram
>>> spacelike means: has the angle of 90° in a spacetime diagram
>>
>> The only one that is correct here is the one for lightlike.
>
> I base my understanding of relativity on ideas of Herman Minkowski.

Apparently you have misunderstood Minkowski. Your statements are just 
wrong. Sorry.

>
> (This is a little different to the idea of Einstein.)
>
> My assumption is, that the imaginary unit 'i' could be understood as
> angle in spacetime.
>
> So 'timelike' gets the angle 0 and spacelike is 'time times i', (what
> represents 90°).
>
> IOW: spacetime could be interpreted as complex numbers and a Minkowski
> diagram is a certain form of an Argand diagram.
>
> For some reason I want the axis of time to be real. The inverse is
> spacelike.
>
> Now I assume a combination of both relations (timelike and spacelike) to
> enable 'standing rotation waves' and those are, what we call 'matter'.
>
> So matter would depend on that axis of time and would exist only in its
> own 'time domain'.
>
> Since the axis of the Argand diagram could be rotated, the relations
> between space, time and matter should behave similar.
>
> This rotation angle is actually a velocity in a FoR. So rotating the
> axis of time would cause 'length contraction' (to material objects) as
> relativistic effect.
>
> And at the angle of 45 ° ( =speed of light) the length would shrink to
> zero and the object is gone.
>
> But it is only gone in the initial FoR, not in the comoving FoR, where
> the object is at rest.
>
> Seen  from there the initial starting point is gone (vanished in a black
> hole).
>
>
> This is certainly a unusual interpretation of relativity, but it enables
> to explain a variety of different observation. So I'm quite convince,
> that my idea is correct and we find in nature the mechanism I have
> described.
>
> btw: here come the link to my 'book' again
>
> https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6
>
> TH
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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