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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #376044 > unrolled thread

Gravitational waves and skeptics

Started byOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
First post2016-02-11 13:04 -0600
Last post2016-02-23 00:06 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 128 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:04 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-11 11:41 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 16:49 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-12 10:44 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics oriel36 <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:00 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 15:21 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics oriel36 <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:40 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 16:19 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 21:00 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "K_h" <KHolmes@SX729.com> - 2016-02-11 13:40 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:58 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:28 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Muddy Shoes <shoes@muddyshoes.org> - 2016-02-13 14:17 +0000
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 06:53 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:53 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:06 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:55 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:37 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics GSS <gurcharn.sandhu@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:46 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-02-12 06:31 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 09:51 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-13 08:35 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 21:28 -0600
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-14 10:15 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:32 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-14 11:50 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:04 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics CDH <celinedh@bernhardine.org> - 2016-02-14 20:45 +0000
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 20:09 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 20:22 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 06:56 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 22:40 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 00:06 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 14:35 +0100
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 00:13 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 10:57 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 11:14 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 01:23 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 04:52 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-02-12 06:32 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-12 17:00 +0000
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:16 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:07 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:34 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 09:58 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 21:55 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 15:03 +0100
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 09:53 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:14 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 22:36 +0100
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:20 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-19 14:18 +0100
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 07:27 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 09:24 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-18 19:25 +0100
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-18 11:37 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics jamesl51165@gmail.com - 2016-02-14 12:13 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:27 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:41 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 15:05 +0100
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 09:59 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-18 10:10 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 22:08 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:41 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 10:25 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 06:29 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 07:33 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 08:36 -0800
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-19 17:52 +0100
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 10:05 -0800
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-19 21:00 +0100
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 12:56 -0800
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 19:39 -0800
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-20 10:50 -0800
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 19:04 +0000
                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 20:27 -0800
                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 06:22 -0800
                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 07:12 -0800
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 07:50 -0800
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 08:00 -0800
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 08:38 -0800
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:35 -0800
                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 07:58 -0800
                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:25 -0800
                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:36 -0800
                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:48 -0800
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 17:52 +0000
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 10:07 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 18:28 +0000
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 11:19 -0800
                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 10:06 -0800
                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 14:57 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 19:13 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 19:47 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 21:39 -0800
                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 19:41 -0800
                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 21:43 -0800
                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:22 -0800
                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:41 -0800
                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:56 -0800
                                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 07:26 -0800
                                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 07:52 -0800
                                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:39 -0800
                                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:43 -0800
                                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 11:16 -0800
                                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 12:34 -0800
                                                          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 15:55 -0800
                                                            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 19:39 -0800
                                                              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 20:57 -0800
                                                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 07:58 -0800
                                                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:23 -0800
                                                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:43 -0800
                                                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:51 -0800
                                                                        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 10:21 -0800
                                                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 08:16 -0800
                                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:19 -0800
                                                    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 21:57 -0800
                                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 07:55 -0800
                                                      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 08:03 -0800
                                                  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:20 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 23:04 +0100
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:53 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-19 12:15 +0100
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 23:26 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-20 13:32 +0100
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-21 14:57 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 23:41 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-23 00:06 -0800

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#376170

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-02-13 09:51 -0600
Message-ID<4bydnQi_RoSIzCLLnZ2dnUU7_82dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#376109
On 2/12/16 2/12/16   6:46 AM, GSS wrote:
> In current mathematical models whole physical phenomenon is deemed to take
> place in metric space and physical space is treated as a redundant entity [...]

You OBVIOUSLY do not understand what science is all about, and what modern 
physics is actually doing.

Science is about MODELING THE WORLD. So is physics. All of our theories are 
MODELS ABOUT VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE WORLD.

In particular, space is a MODEL. Your attempt to distinguish "metric space" and 
"physical space" is nonsense -- you are mixing up model and world; that's invalid.


Tom Roberts

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#376175

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-02-13 08:35 -0800
Message-ID<99fb9cd1-03da-490d-90d8-f394b1af2388@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376170
W dniu sobota, 13 lutego 2016 16:51:51 UTC+1 użytkownik tjrob137 napisał:

> In particular, space is a MODEL. Your attempt to distinguish "metric space" and 
> "physical space" is nonsense -- you are mixing up model and world; that's invalid.

Nonsense...

After all these metrics are always wrt the flat space: diag = 1,1,1,1.

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#376192

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-02-13 21:28 -0600
Message-ID<erOdnWhtYqnzaSLLnZ2dnUU7_8xi4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#376175
On 2/13/16 2/13/16   10:35 AM, alsor@interia.pl wrote:
> W dniu sobota, 13 lutego 2016 16:51:51 UTC+1 użytkownik tjrob137 napisał:
>> In particular, space is a MODEL. Your attempt to distinguish "metric space" and
>> "physical space" is nonsense -- you are mixing up model and world; that's invalid.
>
> Nonsense...
> After all these metrics are always wrt the flat space: diag = 1,1,1,1.

The nonsense is YOURS. You are just making stuff up and pretending it is true.

	Hint: these are spaceTIME metrics.
	Hint2: it does not make sense to attempt to discuss a "metric wrt
	another" (wrt = "with respect to").


Tom Roberts

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#376226

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-02-14 10:15 -0800
Message-ID<ebbf2f1d-9f96-4e4f-a6de-17cef0ea8205@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376192
W dniu niedziela, 14 lutego 2016 04:28:48 UTC+1 użytkownik tjrob137 napisał:

> > After all these metrics are always wrt the flat space: diag = 1,1,1,1.
> 
> The nonsense is YOURS. You are just making stuff up and pretending it is true.
> 
> 	Hint: these are spaceTIME metrics.
> 	Hint2: it does not make sense to attempt to discuss a "metric wrt
> 	another" (wrt = "with respect to").

You are very poor in the math and logics.

Hint: 1. the spacetime is a math being only.
2. in the math everything is wrt something other.

The knowledge - sciense has been always about the relations,
laws, theorems, ect.; never obout any absolute dogma.

Your relativity is for uneducated/untrained imbeciles only, babe.
It's greatly to short for any rationaly thinkink being..

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#376146

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 19:32 -0800
Message-ID<a4ae6b27-144f-46a7-b8b7-4e0d589f5f2d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376100
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:38:02 PM UTC-8, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 2/11/16 2/11/16   10:55 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > Question:  is a LIGO result being
> > used to discredit Loop Quantum Gravity?
> 
> Certainly not. Your fantasies are just that -- fantasies.
> 
> In addition to writing the paper announcing their observation of an unambiguous 
> gravitational wave, the LIGO team also wrote a (much more technical) paper on 
> how they applied GR to their observation and find it is fully consistent with 
> the final inspiral of two black holes with masses 39 M_solar and 32 M_solar.
> 
> Indeed I suspect that the complexity of this analysis, plus their natural desire 
> to publish the two papers simultaneously, was important in delaying the 
> announcement.
> 
> All this has nothing whatsoever to do with LQG.
> 
> 
> Tom Roberts

Thank you.  

Tom - which two black holes of 39, 32 
solar masses are these putative singularities 
that splashed this wave?

Is there a copy of this Phys. Rev. Let. 
piece online or is it to the library?

Finding a lump or ejecta as of the 
necessary motion of massy objects 
so to affect a change in gravity 
is justified, also, classically.

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#376224

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2016-02-14 11:50 -0600
Message-ID<y7SdnTujUKDFI13LnZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#376146
On 2/12/16 2/12/16   9:32 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> Is there a copy of this Phys. Rev. Let.
> piece online or is it to the library?

If you cant figure out how to find such papers, you are highly unlikely to be 
able to understand them.

	Hint 1: arxiv.org is your friend. As is Google.com .
	Hint 2: the author is the LIGO collaboration


Tom Roberts

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#376227

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-14 12:04 -0800
Message-ID<3001b9a3-1515-483d-88b2-a1053aa8c320@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376224
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 9:50:19 AM UTC-8, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 2/12/16 2/12/16   9:32 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > Is there a copy of this Phys. Rev. Let.
> > piece online or is it to the library?
> 
> If you cant figure out how to find such papers, you are highly unlikely to be 
> able to understand them.
> 
> 	Hint 1: arxiv.org is your friend. As is Google.com .
> 	Hint 2: the author is the LIGO collaboration
> 
> 
> Tom Roberts

I imagine that as a tome 
instead of an essay, it 
would be on the QC section 
of the shelves, or stacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification:Class_Q_--_Science

In the stacks.

(That's physics - astronomy 
is around the corner.)

http://arxiv.org/list/astro-ph/recent

I wonder that it's the same 
as the article in Phys.Rev.Let.

The name of the event is GW150914.

http://arxiv.org/find/all/1/all:+GW150914/0/1/0/all/0/1

"The gravitational-wave (GW) signal GW150914 detected 
on September14, 201509:50:45UTC by the AdvancedLIGO 
(aLIGO) detectors (Abbott et al. 2016a) has been shown to 
originate from the coalescence of a binary BH (BBH) with 
masses of 36+5 −4 M and 29+4 −4 M (in the source frame, 
see §2). This GW discovery provides the first robust confirmation 
of several theoretical predictions: 
(i) that “heavy” BHs exist,
(ii) that BBHs form in nature, and
(iii) that BBHs merge within the age of the Universe 
at a detectable rate."

http://arxiv.org/abs/1602.03840

"The data around the time of the event were analysed 
coherently across the LIGO network using a suite of 
accurate waveform models that describe gravitational 
waves from a compact binary system in general relativity."


I am most interested to be seeing any other confirmation 
that this entire system exists.

From http://arxiv.org/abs/1602.03868, 
"Swift follow-up of the Gravitational Wave source GW150914":


"The Advanced LIGO observatory recently reported 
the first direct detection of gravitational waves. 
We report on observations taken with the Swift satellite 
two days after the GW trigger. No new X-ray, optical, 
UV or hard X-ray sources were detected in our observations, 
which were focussed on nearby galaxies in the gravitational 
wave error region and we discuss the implications of this."


The style of the LIGO's abstract, that they've fit the 
data to a model of theirs and thus conclude that's its 
source, wouldn't be so bad if it didn't break the scientific 
method so much.


Now, maybe I've missed the parallel research that it 
could confirm (or rather, scientifically, not falsify), 
on the existence of this system of a binary pulsar or 
binary black hold system of 20-30 and 15-25 solar masses 
that merges where we coordinate the LIGO event with the 
other before and after feature of the event, but it seems 
like they just have a model given the two-detector LIGO 
configuration and say there's no other observables.


That's model-fitting, not confirmation (not falsification).

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#376232

FromCDH <celinedh@bernhardine.org>
Date2016-02-14 20:45 +0000
Message-ID<n9qp1i$1e8v$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#376224
Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 2/12/16 2/12/16   9:32 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
>> Is there a copy of this Phys. Rev. Let.
>> piece online or is it to the library?
> 
> If you cant figure out how to find such papers, you are highly unlikely
> to be able to understand them.
> 
> 	Hint 1: arxiv.org is your friend. As is Google.com .
> 	Hint 2: the author is the LIGO collaboration

Never see a mirror without inherited errorbars,

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376085

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-02-11 20:09 -0800
Message-ID<72285d81-3fa7-4b83-97d5-b621bbca30fc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376080
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:53:24 PM UTC-6, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> > 
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> > never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> > to them).
> > 
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> > waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> > (according to them).
> > 
> > Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> > and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
> > - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> > the theory
> > - that binary pairs of black holes exist
> > - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> > theory
> > 
> > So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> > respond?
> > 
> > Some possibilities:
> > "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
> > what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
> > anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
> > 
> > "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
> > doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
> > other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
> > I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
> > are right -- never."
> > 
> > "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
> > that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
> > reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
> > and general relativity are correct."
> > 
> > "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
> > experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
> > was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
> > to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
> > ignore all of them."
> > 
> > "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
> > theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
> > about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
> > the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
> > them."
> > 
> > Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> I'm skeptical, scientifically, and those are straw-men 
> there, OB.
> 
> 
> First of all, whatever signal they got, there's no real 
> association of it with any event.  
> 
> Second, the timing between first and second detection 
> seems the bit off.
> 
> Third, similarly to the Higgs boson which wasn't 
> detected, instead penciled in between the humps of 
> what was detected, the bow shock then ringing is 
> a la the tachyonic before and after whatever 
> event it is (or lack thereof).
> 
> So, besides their statue crying blood, and "not 
> invalidating General Relavity", there's not 
> necessarily so much to be skeptical about, except 
> the outrageous hoopla of the unlearned about the 
> bandwagon and the after-the-"fact" "I would have 
> told you so".
> 
> You have that on there already?  Put something 
> like "scientists have that falsification is 
> negative".
> 
> Higgs is already drying out and still shakes, this 
> "gravitational wave" can wait until reasonably enough 
> more are put online (they're cheap to run) and what 
> real correlations there are with events can be 
> written out.
> 
> 
> The article is "Laser interferometer online at 
> scale receives an event.  Local scale of experiment 
> to detect gravity waves established by trial and error."
> 
> That's pretty much it.

yup

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376088

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2016-02-11 20:22 -0800
Message-ID<a45f343a-8141-42d7-bcb4-31e807e1ac52@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376085
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 10:09:30 PM UTC-6, John Gogo wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:53:24 PM UTC-6, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > > [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> > > 
> > > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > > on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> > > never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> > > to them).
> > > 
> > > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > > on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> > > waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> > > (according to them).
> > > 
> > > Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> > > and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
> > > - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> > > the theory
> > > - that binary pairs of black holes exist
> > > - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> > > theory
> > > 
> > > So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> > > respond?
> > > 
> > > Some possibilities:
> > > "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
> > > what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
> > > anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
> > > 
> > > "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
> > > doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
> > > other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
> > > I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
> > > are right -- never."
> > > 
> > > "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
> > > that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
> > > reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
> > > and general relativity are correct."
> > > 
> > > "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
> > > experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
> > > was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
> > > to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
> > > ignore all of them."
> > > 
> > > "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
> > > theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
> > > about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
> > > the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
> > > them."
> > > 
> > > Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> > 
> > I'm skeptical, scientifically, and those are straw-men 
> > there, OB.
> > 
> > 
> > First of all, whatever signal they got, there's no real 
> > association of it with any event.  
> > 
> > Second, the timing between first and second detection 
> > seems the bit off.
> > 
> > Third, similarly to the Higgs boson which wasn't 
> > detected, instead penciled in between the humps of 
> > what was detected, the bow shock then ringing is 
> > a la the tachyonic before and after whatever 
> > event it is (or lack thereof).
> > 
> > So, besides their statue crying blood, and "not 
> > invalidating General Relavity", there's not 
> > necessarily so much to be skeptical about, except 
> > the outrageous hoopla of the unlearned about the 
> > bandwagon and the after-the-"fact" "I would have 
> > told you so".
> > 
> > You have that on there already?  Put something 
> > like "scientists have that falsification is 
> > negative".
> > 
> > Higgs is already drying out and still shakes, this 
> > "gravitational wave" can wait until reasonably enough 
> > more are put online (they're cheap to run) and what 
> > real correlations there are with events can be 
> > written out.
> > 
> > 
> > The article is "Laser interferometer online at 
> > scale receives an event.  Local scale of experiment 
> > to detect gravity waves established by trial and error."
> > 
> > That's pretty much it.
> 
> yup

We will find that the frequency sound is chaotic and unmeaningful... primarily because all built interferometers are all Earth-based.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376113

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 06:56 -0600
Message-ID<n9kkp4$85f$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#376080
On 2/11/2016 9:53 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
>>
>> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
>> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would
>> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according
>> to them).
>>
>> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
>> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational
>> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with
>> (according to them).
>>
>> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established,
>> and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
>> - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by
>> the theory
>> - that binary pairs of black holes exist
>> - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the
>> theory
>>
>> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they
>> respond?
>>
>> Some possibilities:
>> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but
>> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do
>> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
>>
>> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory
>> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion
>> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore
>> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity
>> are right -- never."
>>
>> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely
>> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the
>> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory
>> and general relativity are correct."
>>
>> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the
>> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there
>> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish
>> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should
>> ignore all of them."
>>
>> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field
>> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better
>> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if
>> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of
>> them."
>>
>> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> I'm skeptical, scientifically, and those are straw-men
> there, OB.
>
>
> First of all, whatever signal they got, there's no real
> association of it with any event.

The signals were seen at two different detectors.

>
> Second, the timing between first and second detection
> seems the bit off.

Of course, and the delay is due to the different location of the 
detectors. Like two stations picking up thunder at slightly different 
times, because of the propagation speed of the sound.

>
> Third, similarly to the Higgs boson which wasn't
> detected, instead penciled in between the humps of
> what was detected, the bow shock then ringing is
> a la the tachyonic before and after whatever
> event it is (or lack thereof).

I could make no sense of what you said here.

>
> So, besides their statue crying blood, and "not
> invalidating General Relavity", there's not
> necessarily so much to be skeptical about, except
> the outrageous hoopla of the unlearned about the
> bandwagon and the after-the-"fact" "I would have
> told you so".
>
> You have that on there already?  Put something
> like "scientists have that falsification is
> negative".
>
> Higgs is already drying out and still shakes, this
> "gravitational wave" can wait until reasonably enough
> more are put online (they're cheap to run) and what
> real correlations there are with events can be
> written out.
>
>
> The article is "Laser interferometer online at
> scale receives an event.  Local scale of experiment
> to detect gravity waves established by trial and error."
>
> That's pretty much it.
>
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376103

FromKoobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-11 22:40 -0800
Message-ID<bf493713-ed91-4f2f-9b9d-b04fa0a8fa7d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376044
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> to them).
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> (according to them).
> 
> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
> - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> the theory
> - that binary pairs of black holes exist
> - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> theory
> 
> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> respond?
> 
> Some possibilities:
> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
> 
> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
> are right -- never."
> 
> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
> and general relativity are correct."
> 
> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
> ignore all of them."
> 
> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
> them."
> 
> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

The following links sums up the LIGO claim.  <shrug>

http://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknutson/people-who-found-jesus-in-their-food#.lpGymennN

Ahahaha...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376104

FromJon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 00:06 -0800
Message-ID<363a1120-a959-4ea5-8317-3f980aff4548@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376103
Go Odd, Tom, Jan! 😊

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376440

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-02-18 14:35 +0100
Message-ID<na4h73$ldd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#376103
On 12.02.2016 07:40, Koobee Wublee wrote:
>
> The following links sums up the LIGO claim.  <shrug>
>
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/arielknutson/people-who-found-jesus-in-their-food#.lpGymennN
>
> Ahahaha...
>

Experimental evidence is frustrating, isn't it? :-D

https://paulba.no/paper/LIGO_GravitationalWaves.pdf
https://paulba.no/paper/LIGO_TestOfGR.pdf

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376105

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2016-02-12 00:13 -0800
Message-ID<56BD9428.5057@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#376044
Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would
> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according
> to them).
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational
> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with
> (according to them).
> 
> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established,



Oh pulease give me a break already....

There is no mention on this page of a "Higgs bosons".
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2013/

All it reads is a generic word that can mean ...anything.

"discovery of a 'mechanism'".


and on this page it reads:

"This particle is *consistent* with the Higgs boson"
http://home.cern/topics/higgs-boson


Being 'consistent' does not make it a Higgs boson. Get Real!

The nobel prize is a fraud, and the announcement  as you put it:

"the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established"

IS A FUCKIN LIE!!!!



The Starmaker



He has consistently denied the charges...until today he changed his plee to guilty.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376128

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2016-02-12 10:57 -0800
Message-ID<56BE2B21.1F65@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#376105
The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >
> > [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> >
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> > on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would
> > never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according
> > to them).
> >
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> > on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational
> > waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with
> > (according to them).
> >
> > Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established,
> 
> Oh pulease give me a break already....
> 
> There is no mention on this page of a "Higgs bosons".
> http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2013/
> 
> All it reads is a generic word that can mean ...anything.
> 
> "discovery of a 'mechanism'".
> 
> and on this page it reads:
> 
> "This particle is *consistent* with the Higgs boson"
> http://home.cern/topics/higgs-boson
> 
> Being 'consistent' does not make it a Higgs boson. Get Real!
> 
> The nobel prize is a fraud, and the announcement  as you put it:
> 
> "the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established"
> 
> IS A FUCKIN LIE!!!!
> 
> The Starmaker
> 
> He has consistently denied the charges...until today he changed his plee to guilty.


A group of researchers, however, has casted doubt on whether or not the supposed particle discovered during experiments with the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), 
the largest and most powerful particle collider in the world, is the long sought after Higgs Boson.Nov 10, 2014



https://www.google.com/#q=has+the+higgs+boson+really+been+found
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/19832/20141110/did-or-did-not-cern-discover-higgs-boson-particle-we-deserve-to-know.htm




then of course you have fraudelent newswriters:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/06/25/confirmed-definitely-higgs-boson-found-lhc/#.Vr4pkUCbErc

That have Headlines that read: Confirmed: That Was Definitely the Higgs Boson Found at LHC 

and end their articles with...
"More work will be necessary, in order to both obtain stronger statistical proof of the new findings..."




Bottom line... it's all about..

to ensure the continuing supply
of funds.



The Starmaker

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376131

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2016-02-12 11:14 -0800
Message-ID<56BE2F2D.4AFE@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#376128
The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> >
> > Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > >
> > > [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> > >
> > > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> > > on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would
> > > never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according
> > > to them).
> > >
> > > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
> > > on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational
> > > waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with
> > > (according to them).
> > >
> > > Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established,
> >
> > Oh pulease give me a break already....
> >
> > There is no mention on this page of a "Higgs bosons".
> > http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2013/
> >
> > All it reads is a generic word that can mean ...anything.
> >
> > "discovery of a 'mechanism'".
> >
> > and on this page it reads:
> >
> > "This particle is *consistent* with the Higgs boson"
> > http://home.cern/topics/higgs-boson
> >
> > Being 'consistent' does not make it a Higgs boson. Get Real!
> >
> > The nobel prize is a fraud, and the announcement  as you put it:
> >
> > "the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established"
> >
> > IS A FUCKIN LIE!!!!
> >
> > The Starmaker
> >
> > He has consistently denied the charges...until today he changed his plee to guilty.
> 
> A group of researchers, however, has casted doubt on whether or not the supposed particle discovered during experiments with the Large Hadron Collider (LHC),
> the largest and most powerful particle collider in the world, is the long sought after Higgs Boson.Nov 10, 2014
> 
> https://www.google.com/#q=has+the+higgs+boson+really+been+found
> http://www.techtimes.com/articles/19832/20141110/did-or-did-not-cern-discover-higgs-boson-particle-we-deserve-to-know.htm
> 
> then of course you have fraudelent newswriters:
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/06/25/confirmed-definitely-higgs-boson-found-lhc/#.Vr4pkUCbErc
> 
> That have Headlines that read: Confirmed: That Was Definitely the Higgs Boson Found at LHC
> 
> and end their articles with...
> "More work will be necessary, in order to both obtain stronger statistical proof of the new findings..."
> 
> Bottom line... it's all about..
> 
> to ensure the continuing supply
> of funds.
> 
> The Starmaker


I mean, really...let's deal with reality.

The first thing
you see here Highlighted by Google
in a square outline box is:

A group of researchers, however, has casted doubt on whether or not the 
supposed particle discovered during experiments with the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), 
the largest and most powerful particle collider in the world, is the long sought after Higgs Boson.Nov 10, 2014

https://www.google.com/#q=has+the+higgs+boson+really+been+found



It certaintly doesn't sound to me that 'the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established'.



This ODD guy is just...conning you.

He's lying.

He's making this stuff up....i have no idea why.


You cannot fool nature.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#376107

FromOmar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com>
Date2016-02-12 01:23 -0800
Message-ID<b945c23d-3d63-4e8c-92ed-ec1effad2310@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376044
On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:04:09 PM UTC+2, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> to them).
> 
> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> (according to them).
> 
> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
> - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> the theory
> - that binary pairs of black holes exist
> - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> theory
> 
> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> respond?
> 
> Some possibilities:
> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
> 
> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
> are right -- never."
> 
> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
> and general relativity are correct."
> 
> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
> ignore all of them."
> 
> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
> them."
> 
> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

******************************************

Dear friends in this group:

The news about this started circulating on Tuesday saying on Thursday the proof will be ready. Come Wednesday the number of news items increased three fold Thursday is the day. Come Thursday all news was about the promised gravitational waves predicted more than a hundred years ago by the GENERAL RELATIVITY of THE ALL-KNOWING ALBERT EINSTEIN. Late Thursday and Friday all talk about that disappeared. 



I am not saying there are no gravitational waves, but they have nothing to do with RELATIVITY.



Best regards



Omar Shabsigh

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#376110

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-02-12 04:52 -0800
Message-ID<2b8358d6-bce5-4629-86f1-c411751dd886@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376107
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 2:23:23 AM UTC-7, Omar Shabsigh wrote:
>
> I am not saying there are no gravitational waves, but they have nothing
> to do with RELATIVITY.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Omar Shabsigh

And those pesky lights you see in the night sky have nothing to do with
some fabled suns far, far away.

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#376116

From"Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net>
Date2016-02-12 06:32 -0800
Message-ID<5f112fda-2a9e-4d5a-957a-d66ed0ecb301@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#376107
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 1:23:23 AM UTC-8, Omar Shabsigh wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:04:09 PM UTC+2, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
> > 
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
> > never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
> > to them).
> > 
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
> > on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
> > waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
> > (according to them).
> > 
> > Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
> > and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
> > - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
> > the theory
> > - that binary pairs of black holes exist
> > - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
> > theory
> > 
> > So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
> > respond?
> > 
> > Some possibilities:
> > "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
> > what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
> > anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
> > 
> > "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
> > doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
> > other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
> > I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
> > are right -- never."
> > 
> > "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
> > that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
> > reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
> > and general relativity are correct."
> > 
> > "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
> > experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
> > was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
> > to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
> > ignore all of them."
> > 
> > "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
> > theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
> > about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
> > the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
> > them."
> > 
> > Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> ******************************************
> 
> Dear friends in this group:
> 
> The news about this started circulating on Tuesday saying on Thursday the proof will be ready. Come Wednesday the number of news items increased three fold Thursday is the day. Come Thursday all news was about the promised gravitational waves predicted more than a hundred years ago by the GENERAL RELATIVITY of THE ALL-KNOWING ALBERT EINSTEIN. Late Thursday and Friday all talk about that disappeared. 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying there are no gravitational waves, but they have nothing to do with RELATIVITY.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> 
> Omar Shabsigh

The Omar CRETIN is back.

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