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Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics
Date 2016-02-12 06:56 -0600
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <n9kkp4$85f$2@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <n9ilv2$169d$1@gioia.aioe.org> <668db2cb-d8f6-47e4-8dcd-68c9d0011cfb@googlegroups.com>

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On 2/11/2016 9:53 PM, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> [To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]
>>
>> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
>> on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would
>> never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according
>> to them).
>>
>> A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent
>> on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational
>> waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with
>> (according to them).
>>
>> Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established,
>> and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
>> - that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by
>> the theory
>> - that binary pairs of black holes exist
>> - that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the
>> theory
>>
>> So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they
>> respond?
>>
>> Some possibilities:
>> "OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but
>> what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do
>> anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"
>>
>> "Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory
>> doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion
>> other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore
>> I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity
>> are right -- never."
>>
>> "All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely
>> that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the
>> reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory
>> and general relativity are correct."
>>
>> "The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the
>> experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there
>> was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish
>> to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should
>> ignore all of them."
>>
>> "OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field
>> theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better
>> about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if
>> the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of
>> them."
>>
>> Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> I'm skeptical, scientifically, and those are straw-men
> there, OB.
>
>
> First of all, whatever signal they got, there's no real
> association of it with any event.

The signals were seen at two different detectors.

>
> Second, the timing between first and second detection
> seems the bit off.

Of course, and the delay is due to the different location of the 
detectors. Like two stations picking up thunder at slightly different 
times, because of the propagation speed of the sound.

>
> Third, similarly to the Higgs boson which wasn't
> detected, instead penciled in between the humps of
> what was detected, the bow shock then ringing is
> a la the tachyonic before and after whatever
> event it is (or lack thereof).

I could make no sense of what you said here.

>
> So, besides their statue crying blood, and "not
> invalidating General Relavity", there's not
> necessarily so much to be skeptical about, except
> the outrageous hoopla of the unlearned about the
> bandwagon and the after-the-"fact" "I would have
> told you so".
>
> You have that on there already?  Put something
> like "scientists have that falsification is
> negative".
>
> Higgs is already drying out and still shakes, this
> "gravitational wave" can wait until reasonably enough
> more are put online (they're cheap to run) and what
> real correlations there are with events can be
> written out.
>
>
> The article is "Laser interferometer online at
> scale receives an event.  Local scale of experiment
> to detect gravity waves established by trial and error."
>
> That's pretty much it.
>
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:04 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-11 11:41 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 16:49 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-12 10:44 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics oriel36 <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:00 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 15:21 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics oriel36 <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:40 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 16:19 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 21:00 -0500
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "K_h" <KHolmes@SX729.com> - 2016-02-11 13:40 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:58 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:28 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Muddy Shoes <shoes@muddyshoes.org> - 2016-02-13 14:17 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 06:53 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:53 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:06 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:55 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:37 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics GSS <gurcharn.sandhu@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:46 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-02-12 06:31 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 09:51 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-13 08:35 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 21:28 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-14 10:15 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:32 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-14 11:50 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:04 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics CDH <celinedh@bernhardine.org> - 2016-02-14 20:45 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 20:09 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 20:22 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 06:56 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 22:40 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 00:06 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 14:35 +0100
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 00:13 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 10:57 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-02-12 11:14 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 01:23 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 04:52 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-02-12 06:32 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-12 17:00 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:16 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:07 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:34 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-13 09:58 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 21:55 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 15:03 +0100
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 09:53 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:14 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 22:36 +0100
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:20 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-19 14:18 +0100
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 07:27 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 09:24 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-18 19:25 +0100
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-18 11:37 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics jamesl51165@gmail.com - 2016-02-14 12:13 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:27 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:41 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 15:05 +0100
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 09:59 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-18 10:10 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 22:08 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:41 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 10:25 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 06:29 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 07:33 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 08:36 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-19 17:52 +0100
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 10:05 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-19 21:00 +0100
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 12:56 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 19:39 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-20 10:50 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 19:04 +0000
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 20:27 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 06:22 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 07:12 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 07:50 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 08:00 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 08:38 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:35 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 07:58 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:25 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:36 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 09:48 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 17:52 +0000
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 10:07 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-20 18:28 +0000
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 11:19 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 10:06 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 14:57 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 19:13 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 19:47 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 21:39 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 19:41 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 21:43 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:22 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:41 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 06:56 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 07:26 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 07:52 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:39 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:43 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 11:16 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 12:34 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 15:55 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 19:39 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 20:57 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 07:58 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:23 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:43 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 09:51 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 10:21 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 08:16 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:19 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 21:57 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 07:55 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 08:03 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 08:20 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-18 23:04 +0100
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 23:53 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-19 12:15 +0100
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 23:26 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-20 13:32 +0100
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-21 14:57 +0000
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 23:41 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-23 00:06 -0800

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