Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #474335

Re: How atomic clocks measure time

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: How atomic clocks measure time
Date	2018-10-07 04:55 +0000
Organization	The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID	<ppc3kh$lms$9@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <93fab02a-7064-4282-ba69-287f4cb72a43@googlegroups.com> <pp858f$6eh$6@pcls7.std.com> <09443010-11d9-478e-bf58-513123848665@googlegroups.com> <pp8lsa$1bg$2@pcls7.std.com> <2b972f86-bd4e-4fd3-b19c-08014e9fe839@googlegroups.com>

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Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 4:42:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
>> 
>> >Suppose there IS a stationary point in the universe somewhere.  How would 
>> >that change anything - other than some screwball mathematical model? 
>> 
>> It would violate the First Postulate, all frames of reference are
>> equivalent. That would toss all of SR as it assumes the First Postulate
>> as true.

>That is just your screwball MISunderstanding of the First Postulate.

No, it is not. The first postulate was assumed to be true since all
evidence indicated that it was, but there was no proof of it.

> And, as has been stated many times before, a "postulate" is just a 
>subject for discussion.

Yes, you have said that many times, but that still doesn't make it true.
A postulate is something ASSUMED TO BE TRUE in the work. The whole point
of the paper is stating that IF the postulates are true, This is what must
happen.

>  It is something that is postulated. In Einstein's case it is 
>a PRINCIPLE that he opened up for discussion to challenge its validity.

You never did read Einstein's work. Both postulates are ASSUMED TRUE, not
open for discussion within the works themselves. (note that does NOT 
prevent someone from disproving either postulate, which would make 
Einstein's SR work null and void, since it DEPENDS on both postulates
being true.

Kind of like this: Let's say you play the same numbers on the state
Superzillions lottery every week. One day, a good friend calls you, all
excited and breathless, yelling your numbers won the jackpot! The jackpot
is $250 million!!  Now, you know you DID play your numbers that week, but
you have not seen the news or the winning numbers for that day yet, but
now you are excited and start dreaming what you will do. A mansion in that
town you love? A yacht? Super expensive sports cars?  As you daydream,
that your numbers won is now a POSTULATE, assumed to be 100% true (your
friend is a VERY good friend and would NEVER mislead you or play a prank
on you), but until you contact the state lottery office, you don't have
PROOF you have a winning ticket.  All your daydreams depend on the
POSTULATE that your numbers won. If they actually didn't, then poof! No
mansion, no yacht.

>Secondly, you seem to view it as the word of God.

No, it is YOU who has some God's eye view, with some sort of definition
of things being faster and slower absolutely, not relative to each
other.

>  It is just an idea that 
>Einstein proposed for discussion.

No, the postulate is assumed true, not open for discussion at all.

>His idea was NOT that "all frames of 
>reference are equivalent."  His idea was that the laws of physics are the 
>same in all INERTIAL frames of reference.

Yes all INERTIAL frames are equivalent with the same laws of physics.

>To claim that anything in science cannot be questioned is to turn that 
>subject into a RELIGIOUS BELIEF.

It is only you who is doing so.

>> I'm sure you'll dismiss that as "some screwball mathematical model".

>No, it is a BASIC misunderstanding that leads to creating screwball 
>mathematical models.

Yes, you sure have some basic misunderstandings which have led you to some
screwball conclusions!

>> >> Does time move at a different rates at midnight (when someone is moving
>> >> faster) than at noon (when someone is moving slower)? Remember the speeds
>> >> of Earth's rotation and revolution ADD at midnight but SUBTRACT from each
>> >> other at noon!  (Relative to the sun, of course)
>> >> 
>> >> Explain your contradiction.
>> 
>> >There is no contradiction.  Yes, time ON THE NIGHTSIDE OF EARTH moves at a 
>> >slower rate because that is moving the same direction as the earth is as 
>> >it orbits the sun.  And ON THE DAYSIDE time moves at a faster rate.
>> 
>> >There is no contradiction.  It is similar to the Hafele-Keating experiment, 
>> >except that no one knows how to measure the difference in time on the 
>> >dayside versus the nightside.
>> 
>> That sounds EASY to prove for scientists with modern equipment. In 100+
>> years, no scientist has gone after winning the Nobel Prize for disproving
>> Einstein's SR?

>If it would be easy, why not explain how it could be easily done?

Compare cesium clocks on the daytime and nighttime sides. The same thing
done with the GPS satellites where they measure more time being
experienced at the GPS satellites than on earth. (did you read about the
first prototype GPS satellite?)

>  It wouldn't 
>disprove Einstein's SR.  It would CONFIRM it, just as Hafele and Keating did. 

Once again, you prove you don't understand SR, or the Hafele and Keating
experiment. H-K confirmed GR, not SR.

>> Also, do the experiment in January and July (or whichever pair of months
>> the earth's orbit moves it the most in the same and opposite directions as
>> the sun's motion around around the galactic center.  (in fact this
>> probably should have shown up in the Michelson-Morley experiment)

>In order to do a comparison, you need a reference clock (like the Naval 
>Observatory clock Hafele and Keating used).  Where would you put the 
>reference clock in your fantasy?

A M-M type experiment should detect the difference. Barring that, a 
satellite in solar orbit independent of earth's may be necessary.

>> >  In the course of a day, all clocks are equally affected.
>> 
>> The Nobel Prize seeking scientists should also look for second order
>> effects, compare a clock at the North or South Pole (no rotational effect
>> on the orbital speed) against one on the equator (largest difference,
>> therefore largest second order effects, if any)

>That has already been discussed.

Not second order effects.

>  While the equator moves faster than the 
>poles, the earth is NOT a perfect sphere.  It bulges a the equator and 
>thus makes Einstein's suggestion unworkable because gravity offsets the 
>velocity difference when measuring time dilation.

Again, I mentioned second order effects. No change at the poles vs. 
faster/slower/faster/slower, if there was a second order or nonlinearity
it could be found by experiment.

>> >> >> Every motion is relarive, as you say, thwre is no absolute rest.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> So does every velocity is relative,
>> >> >> There is no absolute velocity.
>> >> 
>> >> >I understand that is what you BELIEVE.  It is standard DOGMA.  But it is WRONG.
>> >> 
>> >> Correction. It is your opinion that it is wrong, and you don't even see
>> >> the contradiction in your own beliefs!
>> 
>> >Right.  I see no contradiction because any contradiction exists ONLY IN 
>> >YOUR MIND.
>> 
>> That is your opinion, of course. Dismissed as foolish.

>"I see no contradiction" is NOT an opinion.  It is a FACT.

OK, it may be a fact that you see no contradiction.  It is, however, your
(foolish) OPINION that there is no contradiction.

>  If you see a 
>contradiction, DESCRIBE IT.  I see no contradiction.

You already described it. Of the two passing spaceships, you claim one is
"faster", and the two will measure each other's time rates as different.
That ITSELF is an experiment with different results in different inertial
frames! The two frames are the ones the two ships are in.  Violates the
First Postulate.

>> >> >There may or may not be any "stationary" point in the universe, but there is 
>> >> >definitely a SPEED LIMIT.  That speed limit is the speed of light.
>> >> 
>> >> Nobody is discussing the speed of light or exceeding it. We're discussing
>> >> relative motion.
>> 
>> >And relative motion can be determined by comparisons using the speed of light.
>> >If you aren't discussing it, then maybe you should.  It will help you 
>> >understand what is real and what is just a silly mathematical model.
>> 
>> And the speed of light is measured as being c in every inertial frame of
>> reference.

>The speed of light is measured as being c WITHIN every inertial frame of 
>reference.

There is no "within". All reference frames cover the entire universe.

>  But, DUE TO TIME DILATION, what is measured as c in one frame of 
>reference will be DIFFERENT when compared to another frame of reference. 

Violates the second postulate.

>That is confirmed a thousand times a day with police radar guns.

Police radar works from the Doppler effect. You have been told that a
zillion times.

>> >> >The closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time will pass for you. 
>> >> 
>> >> In which reference frame?
>> 
>> >In every reference frame.
>> 
>> Evidence?

>Hafele and Keating.  NIST.  Geodesy and Metrology.  And all other time dilation 
>experiments involving clocks.

None of them are evidence of that. None.

>> >> >When you reach the speed of light, TIME STOPS.
>> 
>> >> Matter at the speed of light involves infinities or division by 0 so
>> >> such claims really don't make sense. It's impossible anyway since it
>> >> would require infinite energy (one of the infinities).
>> 
>> >It would require nearly infinite energy to PUSH something to the speed of 
>> >light.  Photons travel at the speed of light, and photons contain no matter,
>> >so obviously you need to study some more.
>> 
>> Wrong, I said MATTER at the speed of light involves infinities.
>> 
>> >Nobody has to REACH the speed of light before you can compare one speed 
>> >versus another.  
>> 
>> Yet so far nobody has?

>You make no sense.  Do you even THINK about what you are writing?

Nobody has thought of comparing speeds of things moving faster and slower
to see which ones experience time faster or slower than the other?

(hint: They have)

>> >> >If you are moving closer to the speed of light than I am, then time will
>> >> >be slower for you than for me.
>> >> 
>> >> "Closer to the speed of light" in which reference frame?
>> 
>> >In EVERY reference frame.  If you are closer to the speed of light in your 
>> >reference frame than I am in my reference frame, then time will move slower 
>> >for you than for me.
>> 
>> Evidence?

>Hafele and Keating.  NIST.  Geodesy and Metrology.  And all other time dilation 
>experiments involving clocks.

Again wrong. They follow GR exactly, not your silly opinions.

>> >It's really not that complicated.  You just make it complicated by using 
>> >absurd mathematical models.
>> 
>> I am just following what Einstein wrote.  So far, SR has never been
>> contradicted by any experiment.

>I agree.  It has not only never been contradicted by experiment, it has been 
>REPEATEDLY CONFIRMED by experiments:

So now you are abandoning your silly absolute speed crap?

>  Hafele and Keating.  NIST.  Geodesy and Metrology.  And all other time 
>dilation experiments involving clocks.  They 
>all CONFIRM that time moves at different rates in different inertial frames 
>of reference.

Spoke too soon. And for the zillionth time, your claims violate the first
(also the second) postulate, so your claims would REFUTE SR, if they were
true.

>You just have a screwball misunderstanding of SR.

>Ed

Thread

How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 13:38 -0700
  How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:19 -0700
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 21:40 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 08:26 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:24 +0000
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 13:36 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 21:33 +0000
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:00 -0700
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 16:44 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:52 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:09 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 08:30 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 18:52 +0200
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-05 17:32 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 13:18 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 10:38 +0000
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 02:02 +0200
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:08 -0700
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 16:47 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:59 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:30 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 08:43 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 16:58 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 13:02 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 21:42 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 08:02 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 04:55 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:40 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-05 18:29 +0000
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 07:48 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 00:46 +0000
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:15 -0700
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 16:26 +0000
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 19:10 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-04 17:35 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-10-04 18:46 -0700
  How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:41 -0700
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-03 18:17 -0400
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 21:57 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-04 07:06 +0200
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-04 07:08 +0200
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 22:57 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 09:01 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:28 +0000
  Re:How atomic clocks measure time Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-04 00:26 +0200
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 05:23 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 09:15 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 09:45 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-04 10:23 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 13:23 -0700
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-04 08:50 +0200
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 08:57 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-04 19:54 +0200
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 21:51 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-05 01:26 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-08 13:49 +0200
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-08 05:08 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 13:15 -0700
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-09 09:22 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-09 03:36 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-09 06:56 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-09 16:42 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 12:48 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-10 09:32 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 09:37 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tc> - 2018-10-10 19:11 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-11 14:03 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 10:07 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-11 21:30 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:08 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:55 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-12 15:36 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 21:45 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-13 11:34 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 09:44 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-05 18:40 +0000
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-04 13:53 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 01:06 +0000
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:29 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 07:44 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 16:35 +0000
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 10:01 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 17:13 +0000
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 13:17 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 22:06 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-05 19:38 -0400
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:50 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-05 18:06 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-05 18:24 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-06 11:02 -0500
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 09:34 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-06 18:43 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-06 16:18 -0500
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-06 15:10 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-07 00:47 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-06 16:02 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-07 00:31 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 22:38 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-07 00:54 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 23:09 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-06 15:55 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 10:37 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 09:53 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-06 16:30 -0500
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-07 09:06 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 16:35 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-07 10:26 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 20:32 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-07 13:52 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 21:31 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 22:13 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 05:22 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 13:21 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 06:32 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 13:40 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 06:45 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 07:27 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 17:21 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 13:19 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 21:29 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-09 07:12 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-09 07:30 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 09:03 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-09 18:22 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-09 13:56 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-09 22:15 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-10 07:39 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-10 08:32 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-10 09:04 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-10 09:47 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 10:49 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-10 13:29 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-10 21:19 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-11 07:26 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-11 15:11 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-11 09:10 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-11 09:16 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-11 09:59 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-11 13:50 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-11 14:01 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 07:42 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-11 21:47 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 08:06 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-12 18:45 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-12 12:09 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 13:20 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-12 21:25 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-13 03:03 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-13 09:25 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-13 10:29 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 18:10 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-11 15:49 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-11 17:27 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-11 17:43 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 08:30 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-12 09:41 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-12 18:50 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 13:30 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 08:24 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-12 10:13 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 08:38 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-12 18:59 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-12 13:42 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-10-13 11:10 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-11 19:51 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-11 13:52 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:56 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-11 02:33 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-10 21:22 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-11 07:42 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-10 12:19 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-10 08:57 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-07 14:55 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 07:35 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 08:04 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 17:24 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 10:43 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 13:24 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 21:36 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-08 11:59 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 12:02 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 14:02 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 14:30 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 02:45 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 23:41 -0400
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 22:56 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 08:24 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 05:09 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-07 09:34 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 20:17 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 08:28 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 09:18 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 10:55 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 13:56 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-08 19:46 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 11:01 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-08 20:26 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tc> - 2018-10-08 18:02 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-08 20:29 +0200
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-08 11:44 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-05 17:01 -0400
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 14:26 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-10-06 01:03 +0200
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 18:15 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-06 07:42 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 08:47 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-06 09:45 -0700
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 10:35 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 17:56 +0000
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 12:50 -0700
                Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 13:16 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 05:17 +0000
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 12:32 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-06 19:43 +0000
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 08:48 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-08 19:56 +0200
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-05 09:02 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 08:10 -0700
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 09:01 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 09:56 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 17:31 +0000
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 13:37 -0700
            Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-08 21:48 +0000
              Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-09 07:32 -0700
        Re: How atomic clocks measure time Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 10:52 -0700
          Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-08 13:54 -0700
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 09:30 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 21:57 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 05:24 +0000
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 13:25 -0700
  Re: How atomic clocks measure time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-06 13:47 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 21:57 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-06 15:06 -0700
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-07 05:27 +0000
    Re: How atomic clocks measure time Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-07 14:51 +0200
      Re: How atomic clocks measure time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-07 08:22 -0700

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