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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #409045

Re: Measuring time and light

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From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Measuring time and light
Date Mon, 13 Feb 2017 09:39:53 -0600
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On 2/13/2017 9:07 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 3:34:56 PM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/12/2017 9:44 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 8:43:55 PM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2017 2:50 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>> The velocity of light is NOT ALTERED when you add the velocity of light to the velocity of an approaching observer.
>>>>> The velocity of the approaching observer doesn't affect the speed of light.  How can it?  It's silly.  All that is
>>>>> happening is that EQUIPMENT used by the approaching observer adds together the oncoming speed of light and the
>>>>> observer's speed to produce a "closing speed" or a "composite speed."  NEITHER SPEED IS ACTUALLY CHANGED BY ADDING
>>>>> THEM TOGETHER.
>>>>
>>>> I'm fascinated by your argument that the equipment adds these two speeds
>>>> together. How exactly is this sum performed? Is there a calculator
>>>> internally that adds it up? Furthermore, if the equipment is fixed
>>>> relative to the observer, how does it know what speed it has? How does
>>>> it determine what number to add to the speed of light?
>>>
>>> We have instruments that can tell us how fast our space ship is moving relative to the stars and planets around the
>>> ship.  It's done with trigonometry.  Are you suggesting that we do not know how fast our rockets and satellites are traveling?
>>
>> Depends on with respect to what. You say "relative to the stars and
>> planets around".
>>
>> Let's take the Earth, Ed. Surely (according to you) we know how fast the
>> Earth is moving "relative to the stars and planets". Tell me how fast
>> that is, and tell me which "stars and planets" you are using to
>> determine that.
>>
>
> "The earth is moving about our sun in a very nearly circular orbit. It covers this route at a speed of nearly
> 30 kilometers per second, or 67,000 miles per hour. In addition, our solar system--Earth and all--whirls around
> the center of our galaxy at some 220 kilometers per second, or 490,000 miles per hour.

OK, so that's the motion of the earth RELATIVE to the sun, and the 
motion of the sun RELATIVE to the center of the galaxy.

>
> "The galaxies in our neighborhood are also rushing at a speed of nearly 1,000 kilometers per second towards
> a structure called the Great Attractor, a region of space roughly 150 million light-years (one light year
> is about six trillion miles) away from us."

And so that's the motion of our galaxy RELATIVE to some other structure.

And how fast is the Great Attractor moving?

Do you see that the answers to ALL those questions is a relative statement?

>
> Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-fast-is-the-earth-mov/
>
>>>
>>> We have no way to precisely measure the speed of light coming from some distant source, of course, but many people
>>> (including you) seem to think it is easy to do.  If we had such a device, HYPOTHETICALLY, it would be a simple matter
>>> to add that speed to the speed of our ship to produce c + v.
>>
>> Which produces an answer about WHAT, exactly? Should this correspond to
>> the speed of the incoming light relative to the observer?
>>
>
> It produces an answer to the question: Are physics teachers correct when they teach their students that an observer
> aboard a space ship traveling toward a source of light will measure the incoming light to be traveling at c, not at
> c plus the velocity of the ship?  The answer, of course, is that the teachers are wrong.  They are teaching nonsense.

No, it's right. Remember the question is what the observer will MEASURE. 
That is different than what you might arrive at by taking a simple sum 
of two numbers.

First of all, remember that speeds DO NOT COMBINE by a simple sum. 
Performing a simple sum yields a value that corresponds to NOTHING in 
real life.

>
>>>
>>> Engineers design the equipment to track the speed of the ship.
>>
>> Speed of the ship relative to what? If you say "just the speed", then
>> I'm going to ask you what you mean by that.
>
> Generally, it is relative to Earth.

And what then does this tell you about speed of the light relative to 
the observer?

> Later, they will calculate the amount of fuel expended and
> the thrust it provides.  That will still provide the speed relative to Earth.
> When the ship approaches a planet, they will start calculating the speed
> relative to that planet, since they will need to calculate orbits and/or speeds for a safe landing.
>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 09:28 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:47 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:28 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:53 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 12:41 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 13:37 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-09 14:40 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 15:00 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-10 00:30 +0100
          Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 06:44 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:03 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 12:50 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 13:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:09 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 08:37 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 20:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:34 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:39 -0600
            Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:22 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 12:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 13:50 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 13:58 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 14:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 14:26 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 14:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:30 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 06:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 06:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:06 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-15 17:48 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 07:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 09:53 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-12 06:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:18 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:27 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:29 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-12 08:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 08:55 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 12:36 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 21:57 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:36 +0100
            Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:37 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:43 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:58 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 09:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:49 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 21:17 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 13:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:28 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:59 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 06:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 13:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-16 22:23 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:55 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:35 +0100
        Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:39 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-09 23:35 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:45 +0100
              Re: Measuring time and light Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-10 11:57 +0000
              Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-10 04:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-10 12:13 +0000
      Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 18:33 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:47 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:24 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 07:26 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 09:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 06:48 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 07:42 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:46 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-14 08:28 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 08:46 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 09:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 09:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 09:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 12:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:05 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-15 06:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:22 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 13:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-15 07:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:58 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:04 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:26 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:34 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-17 06:56 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:11 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-17 14:48 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-18 13:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:08 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 07:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:24 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 08:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:23 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 12:47 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 13:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-18 14:48 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 06:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 14:10 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:51 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 18:00 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:19 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-18 19:55 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 12:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:07 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 15:07 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-19 09:15 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 06:28 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 08:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:42 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemoveandReplaceATkevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-02-19 16:54 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 18:16 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 18:52 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 10:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 19:43 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 19:51 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 10:55 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 11:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 20:13 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:09 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-17 22:22 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 22:58 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 14:29 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-17 22:36 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:20 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 13:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:58 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-17 14:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 23:54 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 15:02 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-18 00:22 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:50 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:15 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:04 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:56 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 07:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:27 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 07:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 08:37 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-18 12:03 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:39 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:46 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-02-18 20:30 +0000
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:25 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-17 20:25 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:20 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:38 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 09:52 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:01 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:08 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:17 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-18 10:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:20 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 14:39 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 15:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:35 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 15:44 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:02 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 16:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:59 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:38 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 09:57 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:06 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:17 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:01 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:10 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:15 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-19 08:31 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:10 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:54 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:35 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-14 13:32 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:39 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:47 -0600
                Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 08:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 09:43 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 19:21 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 12:45 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 21:58 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:03 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-16 23:13 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:16 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:34 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:41 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-16 23:11 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 12:00 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 13:24 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 22:41 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:12 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 23:28 +0100
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:05 -0800
                Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:09 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:19 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:39 -0600
            Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 07:46 -0800
              Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:42 -0600
  Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 12:34 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 11:24 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:01 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:05 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 13:46 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:30 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 06:46 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:56 -0600
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 13:56 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 14:03 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 14:59 -0800
  Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:52 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-13 08:08 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 06:55 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 07:05 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 07:31 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:18 -0800
            Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 07:52 -0600
          Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:34 -0600
        Re: Measuring time and light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:07 -0600
  Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 13:43 -0800
    Re: Measuring time and light Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-16 14:17 -0800
      Re: Measuring time and light "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:32 -0800
        Re: Measuring time and light Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 16:16 -0800
          Re: Measuring time and light benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-16 20:00 -0500

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