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Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition?

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition?
Date 2017-01-09 13:27 -0600
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <o50o7r$ckm$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <04ae7769-f494-4279-82b1-87e27dbb3147@googlegroups.com> <o4o5il$1osj$9@gioia.aioe.org> <1a015121-71bc-4d04-b2b5-e025d72a2918@googlegroups.com> <o4p0rn$1ack$2@gioia.aioe.org> <8d5e8ecc-35d1-429c-bb6e-85a7a202ec88@googlegroups.com>

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On 1/7/2017 1:08 AM, Eckard B wrote:
> I see theories founded in reasoning, not immediately in observations or experiments. On the other
> hand, von Essen, a prominent critic of Einstein called His 1905R paper the worst one he ever read
> because it was not based on measurement but only on speculation. Stachel told us that Einstein himself,
> when he was "at the end with his Latin", resorted in claiming that His theory is nonetheless justified
> by its success. Tom Roberts reiterates and reiterates this excuse.

Essen is a well known critic of a lot of theoretical work, because he's 
a metrologist, and not just for relativity -- he doesn't like the work 
behind spontaneous symmetry breaking either. But by and large, Essen has 
been criticized as being off the mark here. The short answer here is 
that theories that seem unreasonable nevertheless can be successful if 
they match to observation. In this case, what is considered "reasonable" 
has to be reexamined.

>
> At least a prominent author of a textbook on Special Relativity frankly admitted that the experimental
> evidence that has been interpreted as support of it does also fit to other explanation, in particular
> to the Lorentzian one which I consider based on the intention to rescue Maxwell's aether hypothesis.

You are referring to Lorentz ether theory. The author you mention but 
don't cite must have a pretty limited scope of the experimental evidence 
in support of relativity. For example, the non-electromagnetic 
interactions are all manifestly covariant, in fully support of 
relativity but completely unaddressable with Lorentz ether theory.

>
> I agree with Phipps (see above) on that the idea of time dilation is unfounded and contradicts logic.
> While the possibility of length contraction, an idea that goes perhaps back to Heaviside seems to be
> plausible to some extent because it can be imagined to merely affect a single object, Relativity of
> time is hard to imagine.

I'm not sure what kind of trouble you're having with the idea. Again, I 
would caution you to not rely on whether it is conceptually natural or 
intuitive. These have historically proven to be unreliable and 
misleading standards for whether a theory is sound or not. But in any 
event, the conceptual framework behind the relativity of simultaneity 
and of time is not that hard to understand.

>
> I need not dealing with the many paradoxes of SR and all other objections against it. Since Lorentz's
> idea was based on a questionable intentional interpretation of Michelson's null-result, Einstein's
> based on it "castle in the air" is also unfounded if there is an alternative explanation of Michelson's
> null-result.

Michelson-Morley is also completely consistent with a ballistic theory 
of light. This does not mean, however, that Einstein developed his idea 
without justification.

A lot of amateurs make the mistake of thinking that scientific thinking 
should be deductive, where ideas are necessary consequence of known 
facts. This is not so; a good portion of science is inductive, which 
means that there is an educated guess involved. Frankly, it doesn't 
matter whether a hypothesis comes from a clear set of indicators or 
whether it is a brilliant hunch or even a blind guess. What matters is 
whether the complete set of data supports the hypothesis better other 
hypotheses. Period, end of story.

In this regard, Michelson-Morley is by no means any lynchpin experiment 
that settled things in favor of relativity. Instead, it was a developing 
process of elimination of other theories involving dozens of seminal 
experiments, as is usually the case.

The fact that Michelson-Morley (a single experiment) is consistent with 
a different hypothesis is beside the point.

>
> I dislike those like Pentcho Valev who are attacking the (adopted in Einstein's second postulate)
> experimentally confirmed constancy of c. Well, it is nonsense to speak of c wrt an observer. Understanding
> Relativity requires to reveal the definition, in the sense of a fictitious method of measurement, for
> the speed of light. My definition is different from Einstein's non-causal Poincaré synchronisation.
>
> By the way, really understanding Relativity includes to not swallow the lazy usual interpretation of the
> seemingly obvious first postulate.

What do you think that lazy interpretation is, and what do you think the 
better one is?

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Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-29 09:54 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-29 10:54 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-29 23:42 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-29 23:52 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2017-01-04 07:28 +0100
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-03 23:41 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 09:46 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 12:01 -0600
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-04 10:10 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-04 03:24 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 05:53 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-04 06:03 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 09:51 -0600
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 09:38 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 09:43 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 10:53 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 13:09 -0600
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 09:50 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 11:04 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 13:13 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 20:36 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 09:58 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 08:29 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 08:43 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 09:40 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 09:48 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 11:57 -0600
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 11:11 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 13:20 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 20:50 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 10:00 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 20:18 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 07:18 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-04 23:36 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 05:52 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 07:16 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 07:53 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 08:04 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:59 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-05 12:41 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 03:38 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 13:45 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-05 13:06 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 05:48 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:57 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 14:06 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 00:05 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:45 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-05 21:00 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 13:34 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 16:41 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 16:47 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 18:41 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 18:54 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:10 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:14 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 03:17 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 03:25 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 23:53 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-05 23:19 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 05:39 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 06:13 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-05 06:23 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 06:34 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-05 07:06 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 19:52 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 13:29 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-05 22:10 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 15:39 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-06 00:01 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 16:28 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-09 20:56 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 00:01 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-05 23:20 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-05 06:22 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 07:37 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-05 08:14 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 09:52 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 08:14 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 08:41 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 09:30 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 09:38 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-05 09:57 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-05 10:26 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 07:20 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 12:33 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 15:06 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 23:08 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-07 08:30 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-07 09:48 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-07 09:55 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 13:27 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 13:13 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 16:01 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-06 14:44 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-06 23:11 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-07 08:31 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-04 13:44 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 00:27 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 04:42 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 05:04 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-13 13:27 +0000
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-13 07:50 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-14 09:00 +1100
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-14 10:06 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:13 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-14 14:31 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 19:25 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-15 04:08 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-13 06:19 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-13 07:42 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 00:34 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-30 00:57 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 06:16 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 10:58 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 02:11 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-30 02:23 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 05:22 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-12-30 05:34 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 23:39 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-01 01:30 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-01 01:40 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-01 01:55 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-01 02:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-01 13:56 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-01 23:35 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 02:57 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-02 03:46 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 03:23 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-03 04:08 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 09:52 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-03 10:00 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 06:53 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-30 10:03 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 13:27 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Tiffany Wuest <eesio@esufsi.info> - 2016-12-30 21:29 +0000
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 23:55 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 13:28 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-30 15:04 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 04:46 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-04 05:18 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 06:24 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-04 08:54 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:34 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 21:02 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 07:20 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-05 08:10 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 09:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Aubrey Primmer <myr@ejmr.info> - 2017-01-06 18:02 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-07 11:20 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-07 14:09 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-08 09:32 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-08 12:33 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-08 20:53 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 00:17 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-09 09:47 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 04:38 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-09 21:32 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 20:01 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-10 10:52 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Jaqueline Yoho <eau@oeJqq.org> - 2017-01-10 22:11 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Jaqueline Yoho <eau@oeJqq.org> - 2017-01-10 22:12 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 23:00 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-11 10:30 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-11 02:34 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ward Nusbaum <uqowm@msdmmsuus.org> - 2017-01-13 19:09 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-07 12:46 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-09 05:48 +1100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-09 05:04 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-09 05:40 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-11 12:44 +1100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-13 00:43 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 11:01 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 03:16 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-14 08:57 +1100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-14 08:55 +1100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-14 10:17 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "HGW... DSc." <hgw@....> - 2017-02-16 09:41 +1100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-16 02:12 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 13:14 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-16 06:50 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 16:08 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:34 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-17 13:04 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-18 13:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-18 22:02 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:00 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-19 04:07 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 13:12 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-19 07:43 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 17:07 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-16 14:19 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-02-16 06:39 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-09 21:00 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 20:44 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-10 10:32 +0100
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-09 07:05 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-09 21:04 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 22:20 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-09 07:07 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 12:10 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-09 12:40 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 20:13 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-09 20:29 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-09 14:16 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 22:23 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-10 07:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-10 08:34 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 08:49 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-09 21:02 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 22:14 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Jaqueline Yoho <eau@oeJqq.org> - 2017-01-10 21:16 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-08 13:38 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 00:37 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-09 09:35 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-09 12:23 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-10 08:41 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 09:00 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-10 09:47 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 11:06 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-10 11:55 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 22:54 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-11 08:24 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-11 10:29 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-10 09:44 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-10 09:49 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-10 09:58 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-10 10:12 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-10 10:20 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-10 10:57 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 12:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 06:19 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 12:26 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-31 14:17 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 15:41 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-31 16:30 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-31 17:30 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-01 01:45 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-01-01 02:21 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-01 06:03 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-01 09:42 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-01 10:12 -0800
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-01 12:50 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-01 13:23 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? alsor@interia.pl - 2017-01-01 13:44 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-01 14:11 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-01 14:35 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 04:18 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 04:26 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-02 06:47 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 11:58 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-02 12:17 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 20:54 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-02 21:04 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-03 00:31 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 10:51 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-03 19:04 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 14:26 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-03 14:33 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-04 00:26 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-04 00:55 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-04 01:01 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-04 09:41 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-04 03:26 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 15:47 -0600
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-03 14:03 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 14:35 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-02 12:02 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-30 13:19 -0800
  Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 08:14 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-31 08:22 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-31 08:28 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-31 08:33 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2016-12-31 14:10 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-03 10:47 -0600
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-03 09:13 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-03 09:57 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 10:09 -0800
        Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 10:06 -0800
          Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-03 19:00 +0000
            Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-03 14:31 -0800
              Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Ermelinda Haymond <nmam@idandly.id> - 2017-01-04 00:49 +0000
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? eckard.blumschein@arcor.de - 2017-01-04 00:55 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-01-04 06:33 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 09:32 -0800
                Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Sharilyn Vore <inolr@nryowno.an> - 2017-01-09 21:26 +0000
  Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 13:45 -0800
    Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-01-04 21:13 -0800
      Re: Speed of light in vacuum, what definition? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-04 21:32 -0800

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