Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #672074

Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.math
Subject	Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not
Date	2026-08-16 08:34 +0200
Message-ID	<ned3v7FefegU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <o3EncwPojSK5ltj-cBfOUwY_pNQ@jntp> <18cba66e9ad2d6cc$2021542$2300$c2265aab@news.newsdemon.com> <UeaQwjXHETKzZ3AEDP2GCZQsVLc@jntp> <neanl9F315rU1@mid.individual.net> <g6XeRhISD8oB8yBZtmuLVtjXmVs@jntp>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

Am Samstag000015, 15.08.2026 um 13:18 schrieb Python:
> Le 15/08/2026 à 10:51, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>> Am Freitag000014, 14.08.2026 um 12:53 schrieb Python:
> ..
>>> Then why did he devote an entire section of his 1905 paper to defining
>>> how to synchronize clocks?
>>
>>
>> Einstein made a mistake in that section, because he didn't calculate 
>> the delay for signals to travel from A to B.
>>
>> If you see a remote 'clock', you don't see that clock in its present 
>> state, but in a state some time before.
>>
>> The difference is the delay, which light needs to travel the distance 
>> from the remote clock (B) to the observer (at A).
>>
>> Einstein's position was something like this: if you consider some 
>> remote clock and see that in a certain state, what you see is real and 
>> not what the remote clock does.
>>
>> If you try to synchronize your own clock with the remote one this way, 
>> you can do that only on one side, because if the other clock would do 
>> the same thing, than unfortunate things would happen and both clocks 
>> run backwards after a while.
>>
>> To achieve a symmetric synchronization, you cannot use Einstein's 
>> method, but had to measure the delay and introduce it 'by hand' into 
>> your calculation (what Einstein didn't).
>>
>> The measurement could be done by a process similar to what is called 
>> 'ping' in the internet.
>>
>> But Einstein didn't mention that requirement.
> 
> Thomas,
> 
> You are describing exactly the problem Einstein starts from.
> 
> You write:
> 
>     "If you see a remote clock, you don't see its present state."
> 
> Of course.
> 
> Nobody disputes that.
> 
> Einstein certainly did not.
> 
> His synchronization procedure is specifically designed to compensate for
> that propagation delay.
> 
> The 1905 construction is not
> 
>     "look at B and read its current time."
> 
> It is
> 
>     1. A sends a light signal at time tA1.
> 
>     2. B receives it and immediately reflects it.
> 
>     3. A receives the reflection at time tA2.
> 
> Then A DEFINES the event "reflection at B" to have occurred at
> 
>     (tA1 + tA2)/2.

But this is WRONG!

If you send a beam from Earth (A) to -say- Mars (B), the beam will not 
be reflected in the middle between it was sent out and when it returns.


The reason:

Mars moves in respect to planet Earth, hence the distance changes, while 
the ray is still moving.

And you cannot 'define this discrepancy away'.

> 
> This is not forgetting the propagation delay.

Well, actually Einstein didn't use the word 'delay' anywhere in 'On the 
electrodynamics of moving bodies'.

Also any other equivalent  word wasn't used, nor any variable containing 
delay.

Therefore we are requested to respect the intentions of the author and 
should assume, that he didn't want to consider delay.

...

TH

Thread

Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-07 19:50 +0200
  Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-08 19:03 +0200
    Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-09 07:08 +0200
      Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-09 15:00 +0200
        Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 06:19 -0700
          Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-09 22:05 +0200
        Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-09 16:19 +0200
          Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-09 21:55 +0200
            Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-09 22:40 +0200
              Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-10 19:09 +0200
      Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Cleaborn Moletotov <mllm@mrooo.ru> - 2026-08-09 14:24 +0000
        Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-10 15:41 +0200
          Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-10 16:36 +0200
            Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 15:43 +0000
              Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 10:00 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 17:05 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 13:08 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:21 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 17:43 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 17:54 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 20:46 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 06:08 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 12:37 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 15:50 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 14:02 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 17:04 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 15:13 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 18:17 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 16:23 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 18:37 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 16:42 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 19:01 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 17:04 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 19:24 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 17:30 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-11 17:43 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 20:13 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-12 15:56 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-12 18:15 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-12 16:34 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-12 19:48 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-12 17:57 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-12 20:27 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 11:33 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 14:46 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 13:03 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 15:28 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-13 07:39 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 13:53 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 16:27 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 14:48 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 17:30 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 15:39 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 18:23 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 16:30 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-13 18:59 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:57 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 08:13 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 08:40 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 12:51 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 10:53 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 13:13 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 11:32 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 13:50 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 11:53 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 14:18 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:31 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 14:37 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:42 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 15:02 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 13:09 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 18:36 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 16:42 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 19:14 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 17:27 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 19:38 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-14 17:53 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-14 20:17 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-15 20:33 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-15 21:41 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-15 21:33 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 06:55 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-16 10:24 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 12:32 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-16 10:43 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 13:03 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-16 11:08 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 16:32 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-16 22:57 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 23:10 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-16 15:34 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-16 22:29 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-16 22:47 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-16 23:35 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-16 15:40 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Hilder Bazulev <euele@bivzrb.ru> - 2026-08-16 21:45 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 14:40 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 18:19 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-14 16:33 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-15 10:51 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-15 11:18 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-15 14:11 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-15 12:22 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-15 17:59 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 09:16 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 09:29 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-15 08:56 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2026-08-16 08:34 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-16 10:04 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lowen Chukhnov <enuh@hlclk.ru> - 2026-08-16 21:54 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Shea Lupov <alell@eus.ru> - 2026-08-14 16:26 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-14 16:29 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 06:58 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-14 07:07 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-13 07:37 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 20:11 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-12 15:55 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 18:23 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 01:59 -0700
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Torre Kaczka <rz@oktreka.pl> - 2026-08-12 19:53 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-12 14:00 -0600
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Clayburn Ruzanov <nuc@braonala.ru> - 2026-08-12 21:29 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-11 21:11 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 22:15 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-12 21:11 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-12 21:14 +0200
              Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-10 19:21 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 17:51 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-10 20:12 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 18:17 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-10 20:27 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-10 23:34 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:19 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 06:03 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2026-08-11 20:04 +0200
              Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-08-11 10:53 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-08-11 12:14 +0200
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Peter Balagurov <pvaepgt@eaatp.ru> - 2026-08-11 14:41 +0000
                Re: Doees The Shit of Einstein predict any measurement results or not Elwood Bahtov <lehtb@oato.ru> - 2026-08-11 14:38 +0000

csiph-web