Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #471432

Re: Black holes don't exist in reality

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Black holes don't exist in reality
Date	2018-09-11 21:34 +0200
Message-ID	<fvqjm5Fsba1U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <8521290e-b7a4-02d0-d839-a23646007e1a@PointedEars.de> <fvnpikFaj62U1@mid.individual.net> <63c9da42-e718-b56c-e78d-28a2ea92e20f@PointedEars.de> <fvptqeFnt6rU1@mid.individual.net> <pn8i04$lls$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Am 11.09.2018 um 16:03 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>> Am 11.09.2018 um 02:33 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 06.09.2018 um 22:49 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>>>>> Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?
>>>>> Because of the black hole information paradox: the assumption of all physics
>>>>> is that no information is lost.  But this would be the case as the
>>>>> information about objects beyond the event horizon cannot get out of a black
>>>>> hole.
>>>>
>>>> Since when is no information lost in the universe?
>>>
>>> Time immemorial.
>>>
>>>> As far as I know, information is lost all the time.
>>>
>>> You "know" a lot of nonsense, this one included.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You deny everything. So what..
>>
>> And now you claim, that no information is lost in the universe.
>>
>> But why do you think so??
>>
>> E.g. I have lost a lot of information, caused by a malfunctioning hard
>> drive.
>>
>> But I could burn a few papers and information is also lost. So: what
>> makes you think, that information does not get lost at all since times
>> immemorial?
>>
>> TH
>>
> 
> Google “conservation of information”
> 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox

quote:

"There are two main principles in play:

Quantum determinism means that given a present wave function, its future 
changes are uniquely determined by the evolution operator.

Reversibility refers to the fact that the evolution operator has an 
inverse, meaning that the past wave functions are similarly unique.

The combination of the two means that information must always be 
preserved. "

There is yet another possibility: one of the principles is wrong.

I personally think, the explanation for the phenomenon 'black hole' 
itself is wrong.

In my view a 'black hole' is an effect related to the axis of time.

A black hole is actually 'the axis of time seen from behind'.

Time has usually an effect like 'pulling things with it'. IOW: we are 
(usually) drawn into the future.

If we can see a region, where the axis of time (of that region) is 
pointing away from us, all things look like being pulled into a black hole.

This would be a mutual relation and seen from a black hole the Earth 
would be (seemingly) vanish in a black hole, while nothing interesting 
is happening there.

The future also takes information in reach with it. That is into a 
realm, were the information is lost for us, but not entirely gone.

TH

Thread

Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-04 17:37 -0700
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-05 05:14 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 10:38 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 00:52 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 20:39 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 07:46 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 12:33 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 22:49 +0200
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:18 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 15:02 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 15:37 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:37 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-07 13:07 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-07 14:56 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 12:05 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-08 04:12 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 10:21 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 15:19 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:34 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:11 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 22:55 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 00:54 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 16:20 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:17 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 02:40 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-14 20:07 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:30 +0200
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-10 19:56 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 11:09 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 05:50 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:09 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:12 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:33 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 18:00 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 15:21 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:03 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 21:34 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:57 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 20:50 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 14:00 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-11 23:27 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-06 19:39 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 20:08 +0200
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 13:21 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Haných Ltskáš <lnni@yawlucla.ha> - 2018-09-06 20:24 +0000
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:19 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:30 +0200
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 09:55 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 19:56 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:10 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 21:29 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:50 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 12:56 +0200
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-09 14:05 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:28 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:40 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:14 +0200
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 13:15 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 23:29 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 07:40 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 09:50 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 11:09 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:19 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 18:52 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:04 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:26 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:45 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-13 17:07 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 22:58 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 21:18 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:16 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:56 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:54 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 05:13 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:34 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 19:05 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:37 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-08 14:59 -0500
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 15:54 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:28 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-16 09:11 -0500
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-16 18:21 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 17:58 +0000
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 12:50 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-10 21:35 +0000
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 14:54 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:35 +0000
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 11:13 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 12:58 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 13:27 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 23:15 -0700
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:02 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:44 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 04:39 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 19:48 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 20:10 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 10:14 +0200
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 15:42 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 16:57 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 17:06 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 20:21 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 20:58 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 14:20 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-19 23:54 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:20 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-21 23:50 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:10 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:34 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-19 17:37 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 19:36 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 15:25 +0000
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:57 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-22 00:24 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 22:42 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 23:08 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:15 -0700
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:02 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-20 15:11 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:16 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:08 -0700
  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 16:18 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 20:40 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 20:46 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 23:36 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-23 15:42 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-23 15:50 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 17:06 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 18:43 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 18:53 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 19:09 -0700

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