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Re: a thought on the garage paradox

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On 31/08/2016 7:28 AM, RichD wrote:
> On August 29, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> Let's consider the Corvette in the garage scenario, again -
>>>>> The Vette drives through at high speed, it fits inside,
>>>>> or not, the garage is too shallow, the usual.
>>>>> To be specific, irrespective of particular numbers:
>>>>> The garage doors are oriented north-south, normally
>>>>> open, the car approaches from the south.
>>>>> The garage's center point is clearly marked.  The
>>>>> driver is centered within the vehicle.  Two cameras
>>>>> are posted at the driver's seat, facing fore and aft.
>>>>> I)    In the garage frame:
>>>>>       The car approaches, enters, then completely inside.
>>>>> Both doors close simultaneously at the moment the driver
>>>>> passes the center, then very quickly open, and the car transits.
>>>>> II)   In the Corvette's frame:
>>>>>       The car is stationary, the garage approaches
>>>>> (so to speak), the open front door rolls over the
>>>>> front fender, the rear door closes, then quickly
>>>>> opens. The driver passes the center; at this moment,
>>>>> the car extends through both open doorways, by equal
>>>>> amount.  The Vette continues forward, the rear fender
>>>>> crosses through the front doorway, which then closes, etc.
>>>>> So far, so standard.
>>>>> Now, what do the cameras record?
>>>>> In particular, what goes on film, at the instant the
>>>>> driver hits the center point?
>>>>> Facing north, the camera sees the front fender interior
>>>>> to the garage... it must be so, for logical consistency.
>>>>> However, facing south, I don't see any such tautology;
>>>>> it appears the rear fender may be seen either in or
>>>>> outside the garage.
>>>>> Thus the analysis indicates an unexpected asymmetry.
>>
>>>> You don't seem to made any allowance for the time it takes for
>>>> light to get from the event being observed and arriving at the
>>>> camera.
>>
>>> huh?
>>> Of course I do, that's the crux of the biscuit.
>>
>>>> I posted an mathematical analysis of the barn and pole paradox with
>>>> cameras some while back
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics.relativity/iuBoRUD4-kE/bF0BsiTDWAUJ>
>>>> and showed that everything works out fine.
>>
>>> Your memo is vague on camera placement, and number.
>>
>> It clearly states that the ones attached to the barn are midway between
>> the doors,
>
> No it doesn't:
> "...  attach video cameras to the barn and to the
> pole (a pair each, pointing towards the opposite ends of the barn and
> pole respectively)"
>
> That's "clear", only if a reader hallucinates alongside you.
>
>
>> and the the ones attached to the pole are a distance 40 *
>> sqrt(3/4) metres behind the centre of the pole.
>
> ... after some tortured arithmetic.
>
> And your example isn't symmetrical, as mine clearly is,
> hence doesn't answer my point of asymmetry in the result.
> Just some hand waving about a barn and some cameras.
>
>
> --
> Rich
>

If you can't discuss this without being aggressive, I can't see why I 
should bother with you. By all means go on being mistaken, it's no skin 
off my nose.

Sylvia.

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a thought on the garage paradox RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-24 15:31 -0700
  Re: a thought on the garage paradox Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-25 02:52 +0200
    Re: a thought on the garage paradox mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-24 23:35 -0700
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox Python <python@org.invalid> - 2016-08-25 12:20 +0200
        Re: a thought on the garage paradox mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-25 03:33 -0700
          Re: a thought on the garage paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 19:55 -0700
            Re: a thought on the garage paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 19:59 -0700
              Re: a thought on the garage paradox John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 20:02 -0700
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-29 15:49 -0700
        Re: a thought on the garage paradox Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 10:34 +0200
          Re: a thought on the garage paradox mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-30 01:48 -0700
            Re: a thought on the garage paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-08-30 11:38 -0700
              Re: a thought on the garage paradox mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-30 23:13 -0700
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:51 -0700
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-09-01 22:08 +0200
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 15:25 -0700
    Re: a thought on the garage paradox RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-27 20:55 -0700
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-28 06:44 +0200
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-28 07:05 +0200
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-28 07:48 +0200
  Re: a thought on the garage paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-28 22:35 +1000
    Re: a thought on the garage paradox "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-28 08:51 -0700
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-28 09:05 -0700
        Re: a thought on the garage paradox "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-28 09:26 -0700
    Re: a thought on the garage paradox RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-29 15:04 -0700
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-30 12:42 +1000
        Re: a thought on the garage paradox RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-30 14:28 -0700
          Re: a thought on the garage paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 11:23 +1000
            Re: a thought on the garage paradox benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-08-30 21:45 -0400
              Re: a thought on the garage paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-08-31 12:20 +1000
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-08-30 23:15 -0700
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 11:12 -0700
                Re: a thought on the garage paradox Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-02 13:46 +1000
  a thought on the garage paradox "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 08:31 -0700
    Re: a thought on the garage paradox Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-09-02 19:03 +0200
      Re: a thought on the garage paradox "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 16:58 -0700
        Re: a thought on the garage paradox "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 19:32 -0700
          Re: a thought on the garage paradox "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 20:00 -0700

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