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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #674577

Re: Fat books

From The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups alt.usage.english, sci.physics.relativity, rec.arts.sf.written
Subject Re: Fat books
Date 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
Organization The Starmaker Organization
Message-ID <6AD45A20.55FF@ix.netcom.com> (permalink)
References <11amvqh$15f3n$1@dont-email.me> <6AD3C2CC.475F@ix.netcom.com> <11b0g92$grpc$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Let's stop with all dis science fiction stuff..
Mars is not a planet!

There is no reason to go to Mars because
Mars is not a planet!

It's just a rock.

No different from the Moon.

Mars is just a balancing system
to keep the Earth on course..
and from flying away to some freeway.




Blaine wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>
> >> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed.
> >>
> >> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the
> >> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the
> >> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader.
> >>
> >> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point,
> >> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the
> >> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take
> >> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort
> >> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the
> >> characters in the story are complaining about the padding.
> >>
> >> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it
> >> to about one third of its length.
> >>
> >> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen
> >> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier
> >> writing.
> >>
> >> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to
> >> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with
> >> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up
> >> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to
> >> read because their books are too thick.
> >>
> >> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books
> >> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to
> >> complain about this?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
> >> Newcastle, NSW
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a
> > reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then
> > tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy.
> >
> >      You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one
> > character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate
> > authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated.
> > Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the
> > critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s
> > autobiography.
> 
> one character may not demonstrate the failure he is referring to, but it
> struck a chord with me. Try getting very far into the followups in
> Stephen R. Donaldson's space opera with Angus Thermopyle. It's just like
> this and of such badness that it reminds one of someone using
> copy-paste, but with an AI to twist up the words slightly so that it
> can't be labeled that simply. The reader just doesn't need that many
> similar brushups on what happened last novel. I set it down before
> finishing.
> 
> --
> Can you strip away so we may start again?
> "There’s a switch and they don't
> seem authentic or themselves. It
> feels like I’m an unnecessary
> body and it’s a waste of time to
> even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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Thread

Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
  Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
    Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
    Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
      Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
        Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
          Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
            Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
              Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
                Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
              Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
                Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
                Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
                Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
          Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
            Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
              Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
                Re: Fat books Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2026-10-20 14:19 +0000
            Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
              Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
            Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
              Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
              Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
                Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
                Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
                Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
                Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
                Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
                Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
                Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
          Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
  Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
    Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
      Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
        Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
        Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
        Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
          Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400

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