Re: Olcott's system

From	Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups	sci.logic, sci.math, comp.theory
Subject	Re: Olcott's system
Followup-To	sci.logic
Date	2026-07-16 10:49 +0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<113a2ei$1puvk$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <1132qh1$2rjc$1@news.muc.de> <1134reb$7ses$1@dont-email.me> <11362hd$l1n6$1@dont-email.me> <1137f1o$116ij$1@dont-email.me> <1138a1u$19n73$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Followups directed to: sci.logic

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On 15/07/2026 18:47, olcott wrote:
> On 7/15/2026 3:06 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 14/07/2026 22:26, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/14/2026 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 13/07/2026 16:51, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/07/2026 17:30, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> [ Followup-To: set ]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/12/2026 3:11 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If I am correct Olcott wants to build a system such that it will
>>>>>>>>> convince everybody of the truth. E.g. he thinks that he will be 
>>>>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>>>> prove that the 'Trump sentence'" 'Trump lost the elections in 2020
>>>>>>>>> because of fraud' is not true.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A few questions:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) How many petabytes of basic-facts and rules does he need to 
>>>>>>>>> construct
>>>>>>>>> his proof?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) Given that even after 20 years he did not convince anyone 
>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>>>> correctness of one 'basic fact', how many peta-years do you 
>>>>>>>>> think he
>>>>>>>>> needs to convince a believer of the Trump sentence that all his 
>>>>>>>>> basic
>>>>>>>>> facts and rules are correct?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3) How is Olcott going to prove that his system is correct? His 
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> is not able to prove its own correctness, because of a self- 
>>>>>>>>> reference.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This aspect can be implemented manually by carefully
>>>>>>>> searching for the answer to this one question:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Was there any actual evidence of election fraud
>>>>>>>> that could have possibly change the outcome of
>>>>>>>> the 2020 presidential election?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, you've completely missed the point of Fred's question.  His 
>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>> wasn't about the 2020 USA election; that was just used as an 
>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>> Fred's question was about how are you going to prove your ENTIRE 
>>>>>>> SYSTEM
>>>>>>> is correct?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The system needn't be proven to be correct as long as there are
>>>>>> sufficient disclaimers about safety critical questions including
>>>>>> medical and legal topics and that the sevice provider's 
>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>> is limited to the amount paid fore the service. With sufficient
>>>>>> disclaimers one only needs to wait unti someone finds evidence that
>>>>>> the system is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not the "system" that PO is purporting to be envisaging/ 
>>>>> building.
>>>>> He is writing about his "system" delivering absolute proven truth.
>>>>
>>>> Not really. He has his own meaning for "true" and related words. The
>>>> stipulated basic facts are "true" by his meaning, and therefore proven
>>>> in his system. Real world truth is not relevant.
>>>
>>> An empirical fact is information, observation, or
>>> measurement derived directly from sensory experience
>>> or experimentation.
>>
>> What is usually coalled "general knowledge" excludes most of those
>> observations. For example, most of the experiments that measured
>> the ratio of the acceleration of an object to the force to it are
>> not in "general knowledge" as usually inderstood. The generalized
>> result that the acceleration is the foce divided by the mass of the
>> object is generally known, and samewhat less generally is known that
>> that generalized result is false.
>>
>>> Real world truth <is> the finite set of empirical
>>> "atomic facts" of general knowledge. This is the
>>> foundational basis of my whole system.
>>
>> No, it is not. Real world truth includes much that is not generally
>> known.
> 
> The knowledge subset of truth.
> 
>>  It is not known whether everything potentially knowable but
>> so far unknown can be expressed as a finite set of atomic facts.
>> The unknown is hard to count.
>>
> 
> "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
> reliably computable for the entire body of general knowledge.
> does not include any unknowns.

"True on the basis of meaning expressed in langage" means tautologies,
which say nothing about the real world. A tautology doesn't even say
anything about any fiction.

-- 
Mikko

Thread

Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 09:15 -0500
  Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-12 14:30 +0000
    Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:13 -0500
      Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-12 16:48 +0000
        Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:56 -0500
          Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-13 10:38 +0300
            Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:28 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 12:19 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:25 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 11:01 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:24 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 13:32 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:34 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 18:10 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-17 12:48 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:18 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:13 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:28 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:05 +0300
    Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 10:31 -0500
      Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 16:22 +0000
        Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:37 -0500
          Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 20:17 +0000
            Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 15:48 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 21:09 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 18:01 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 12:07 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 12:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 16:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 15:38 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 17:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 17:29 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 19:38 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 19:03 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 21:12 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 13:03 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 20:18 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:42 +0300
                Theatheory (not Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes)) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-16 14:00 -0700
                Re: Theatheory (not Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes)) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-16 15:28 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 23:43 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 16:03 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 18:05 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 11:51 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 10:41 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:34 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 12:34 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-17 20:10 +0100
          Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 12:19 +0300
            Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:45 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 10:43 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:45 +0300
      Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:30 +0300
    Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:26 -0500
      Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:06 +0300
        Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:47 -0500
          Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:49 +0300
  Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 10:38 -0600
    Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:51 -0500
      Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 11:29 -0600
        Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 13:00 -0500
          Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 12:49 -0600
            Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 13:57 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:02 -0400
              Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:04 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 14:29 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:31 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 14:46 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:51 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:06 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:34 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 14:15 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-13 11:08 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 16:43 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 17:14 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:20 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 20:24 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 17:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 12:48 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 12:41 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 19:39 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:59 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 20:12 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 15:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 20:48 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 16:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:22 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:11 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:52 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:59 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:10 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 10:59 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:19 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:16 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:54 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:13 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 15:36 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:45 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 10:57 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:16 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:24 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:00 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:25 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:50 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:08 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:31 +0300
              Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:25 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:02 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:04 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:15 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:27 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:03 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:21 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:27 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:40 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:57 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:15 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 18:28 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 15:38 -0600
                Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:44 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 15:56 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:10 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 16:31 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 18:33 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 18:32 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 19:53 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:00 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:18 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:19 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:23 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:26 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:28 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:49 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 10:34 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 10:47 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:00 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 11:49 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:55 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 12:27 +0300
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:52 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:56 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 14:34 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:52 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:30 +0300
                Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:07 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-15 16:50 +0000
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:19 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-15 17:54 +0000
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 13:05 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-18 11:32 +0100
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:45 +0300

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