The mechanic with the Vacuum Hypothesis (Re: Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	sci.math
Subject	The mechanic with the Vacuum Hypothesis (Re: Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit)
Date	2026-04-29 12:53 +0200
Message-ID	<10ssnus$142ls$3@solani.org> (permalink)
References	<10c46uv$mf1d$3@solani.org> <10dd7je$f6qh$3@solani.org> <10ssj7d$13v4t$2@solani.org> <10sskj8$1402u$3@solani.org> <10sslg6$140rd$3@solani.org>

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Hi,

It takes a lot of guts to related SLD failure of
an empty predicate to CWA:

closed-world assumption
The assumption that what cannot be proved
true is false. Therefore, sending a message
corresponding to a declared but not defined
predicate, or calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails. But messages or
calls to undeclared predicates generate an error.
https://logtalk.org/handbook/glossary.html#term-closed-world-assumption

I mean all he wants to say is that an empty
predicate doesn't have a throw catchall clause.

Nothing to do with CWA. CWA is a mathematical
concept postulating that from G |/- A we want
to jump to G |-_CWA ~A. Its not that the

predicate in questions would be called with
a negation in front, and that we would really
be interested in a "is false".

Even if SWI has rebranded "fail" into "false"
in the top-level, its still most often
a SLD result, and not a CWA result.

At least the key phrase still uses "fails",
when he writes "calling a declared predicate
with no clauses, fails". It could be worse

if he would really apply the CWA and write
calling a declared predicate with no clauses,
is false". Such a conclusion can only be

detected in logic by querying ~A, while he
still deals with a query A.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit.
> A mixture of bloat combined with bloat, and
> on top of it some cherry bloat:
> 
>      test(lgt_format_2_tab_table_pip_0110_01, true(Assertion)) :-
>          ^^set_text_output(''),
>          {format("left~tright", [])},
>          ^^text_output_assertion('leftright', Assertion).
> 
> Woa! Its not that invoking a clause would be
> used, which can succeed and fail. No a truth
> value needs to be reified. Many frameworks do
> 
> that and then compute an expect (*) style DSL.
> Meaning we have suddently two languages, the
> Prolog language which can deal with with success
> 
> and failure, and then a DSL which will deal
> with success and failure. Now put the whole thing
> into classes, where a default method needs to
> 
> be invoked via (^^)/1 because Logtalk is too
> stupid to resolve default methods without the
> need to write (^^)/1. It might make sense here,
> 
> where its practically a super:
> 
> init :-
>      assertz(counter(0)),
>      ^^init.
> 
> But otherwise, why?
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Ok, this is fun, I didn't do Logtalk bashing
>> for a while. But Logtalk is definitively
>> over engineered in a bad sense.
>>
>> Logtalk is the opposite of Jazz. Its more like
>> Jazz player taking valium and becoming a
>> harmonica player. But the Jazz players are
>>
>> also less lucky. We now find a s(CASP) grave
>> yard in logic programming, did the Yale
>> Shooting problem shoot their foot?
>>
>> Logtalk features ton of test cases and a ton
>> of adapters. But hell no, where are the test
>> results. I didn't find them on GitHub.
>>
>> Maybe should have a look again.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> P.S.: The test cases  are possibly a do it
>> yourself service for the Prolog community.
>> Problem millions of OS-es and still the
>>
>> idea that a Prolog system is built from
>> source, so millions of build platforms.
>> No money or resource left to do a GeekBech.
>>
>> Too busy with grokking abduction/deduction .
>>
>> https://www.geekbench.com/
>>
>> A Geek bench taps into standards like
>> Vulcan etc.. We even don't have a scripting
>> standard for Prolog systems itself.
>>
>> How a Prolog processor starts its work is
>> left open by the ISO core standard, and
>> there is no PIP adressing the problem
>>
>> for a set of common platforms.
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The perfect "olive oil business",
>>> just follow these steps:
>>>
>>> Step 1: Avoid the pain of a Prolog vendor
>>> - Start without having a WAM, etc..
>>>    up your sleves
>>>
>>> Step 2: Take the easy route of gooey bloath:
>>> - Instead build a nonsense layer on
>>>    top of existing WAMs, etc..
>>>
>>> Step 3: Take the easy route of AI winter nonsense:
>>> - Add some 80's Expert System nonsense, oldest
>>>    tricks like a "why?" component or some
>>>    fuzzy truth intervalls.
>>>
>>> Step 4:
>>> - Profit!
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> P.S.: Logtalk also missed that OOP is dead.
>>> Everybody does now DOP. Data oriented programming.
>>> Less ontology engineering more complex functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Thread

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    Re: How deep seek went bonkers (Was: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-07 18:30 -0700
  Declarative farts versus MSI Claw AI+, who would win? (Re: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-23 14:38 +0200
    Gameified AI Engineers brains blown out [Kurzweil's 2045 Prediction] (Re: Declarative farts versus MSI Claw AI+, who would win?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-23 15:23 +0200
      The intelligent Cloud, Fog and Edge is evolving (Re: Gameified AI Engineers brains blown out [Kurzweil's 2045 Prediction]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-24 11:40 +0200
        More Dreams: LLM + Chess = LRM (Re: The intelligent Cloud, Fog and Edge is evolving) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-25 12:52 +0200
          Not for Boris the Loris and Julio the Nazi Retared (Re: More Dreams: LLM + Chess = LRM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-25 13:10 +0200
    Logtalks Corleone "olive oil business" [Missed the DOP Bandwagon] (Re: Declarative farts versus MSI Claw AI+) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 11:32 +0200
      Logtalk is over engineered in a bad sense [Where are the test results] (Re: Logtalks Corleone "olive oil business") Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 11:55 +0200
        Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit (Re: Logtalk is over engineered in a bad sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 12:11 +0200
          The mechanic with the Vacuum Hypothesis (Re: Logtalk just creates its own island of PlUnit) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 12:53 +0200
            Layoff Tsunami and Defunding Rounds [Burger jobs] (Re: The mechanic with the Vacuum Hypothesis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 13:17 +0200
  Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier (Re: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 14:32 +0100
    Resolving Ambiguity in Negation as Failure (Re: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 14:33 +0100
      Future Outlook of Logic Programming (Re: Resolving Ambiguity in Negation as Failure) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 14:35 +0100
    Re: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier (Re: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Franz Sneijders <ee@ard.nl> - 2025-11-06 17:44 +0000
      Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll (Was: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 22:28 +0100
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        Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll (Was: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier) Mariano Amelsvoort <aa@viollr.nl> - 2025-11-06 22:15 +0000
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          Re: CET is also needed (Was: Horn uses Conditional / Clark uses Biconditional) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-11-09 08:13 -0800
            You have to check Feferman OST [Paradox Hunting] (Was: CET is also needed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-09 19:57 +0100
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                In Prolog you don't need the down arrow t↓ (Was: Prolog semantics is 3-valued or intuitionistic) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-09 20:16 +0100
    Prolog PIP-0110: Its a Floating-Point Multiverse? [Stoic Grisu versus Rest of World] (Re: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 00:41 +0200
      Testing NVIDIA A10G / XVM Engine v10.2.4 (Permion Federal AI) (Re: Prolog PIP-0110: Its a Floating-Point Multiverse?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 02:15 +0200
        This could be a serious security vulnerability (Re: Testing NVIDIA A10G / XVM Engine v10.2.4) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-04-29 02:38 +0200
          Re: This could be a serious security vulnerability (Re: Testing NVIDIA A10G / XVM Engine v10.2.4) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 18:07 -0700
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              Re: Logtalk big time salami slicing [For "Whales" (ultra-high rollers)?] (Was: This could be a serious security vulnerability) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:13 -0700
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        Re: format/3 that does not have some Spaghetti logic (Re: Prolog PIP-0110: Its a Floating-Point Multiverse?) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:11 -0700
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      From Vibe-Coding to Vibe-Sniffing (Re: Backdoor Monkeys from Eternal September) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-07 11:08 +0100
    From Feferman to Peyton Jones, no luck with ∃ (Re: 2025 Obituary: Skew Confluence (aka “Stews” 😆)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-08 20:35 +0100
      The quantifer ∃ is just the Combinator K (Schönfinkels C)? (Re: From Feferman to Peyton Jones, no luck with ∃) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-08 21:25 +0100
  Not Ross Finlayson: Pioneers Cliff B. Jones (Was: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-09 21:16 +0100

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