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Groups > sci.logic > #345725

Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA

From Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.math, sci.math.symbolic, comp.lang.prolog
Subject Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA
Followup-To sci.logic
Date 2026-04-29 09:37 +0300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10ss8vm$3n5dj$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <JBOHR.71960$qn1.41265@fx18.ams4> <10soiuk$np0$1@news.muc.de> <10som3k$2ndjl$1@dont-email.me> <10spntn$2viov$1@dont-email.me> <10sq8i4$34r38$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

Followups directed to: sci.logic

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On 28/04/2026 15:18, olcott wrote:
> On 4/28/2026 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 28/04/2026 00:57, olcott wrote:
>>> On 4/27/2026 4:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> [ Followup-To: set ]
>>>>
>>>> In sci.math Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-04-27, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/26/2026 3:01 PM, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The correct interpretation was, I argued, not "This sentence
>>>>>>>>> is unprovable," but rather:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The following is unprovable (1):
>>>>>>>>>    The following is unprovable (2):
>>>>>>>>>     The following is unprovable (3):
>>>>>>>>>      ...
>>>>
>>>>>> The directed graph of the evaluation sequence of G
>>>>>> has a cycle preventing its evaluation from ever
>>>>>> terminating.
>>>>
>>>>>> If you have no idea what directed graphs are you will
>>>>>> never get this. If you always knew what directed graphs
>>>>>> of evaluation sequences that contain cycles are then
>>>>>> you rebuttal has always been pure dishonesty.
>>>>
>>>>> I learned what directed graphs were in high school.
>>>>
>>>>> It seems our views are somewhat in agreement, but my directed
>>>>> graph looks like this:
>>>>
>>>>> (D1)
>>>>> · ─→ · ─→ · ─→ · ─→ ...
>>>>
>>>> I strongly urge you to read and understand an actual proof of Gödel's
>>>> incompleteness theorem[*].  There are no looping or endless directed
>>>> graphs in these.  Such notions result from misunderstandings by those
>>>> lacking formal training in mathematics.
>>>>
>>>> [*] I would suggest finding a second hand copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach,
>>>> an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter, published around 
>>>> 1978 or
>>>> 1979.  A proof of the incompleteness theorem is a central theme of the
>>>> book, which is witty and entertaining and well worth reading.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Olcott has never read and understood such a proof.  Although not
>>>> particularly difficult, it is beyond his understanding.
>>>
>>> After all these years where I have repeatedly proven that Gödel
>>> himself says that his proof does have pathological self reference
>>> you repeatedly deny this because you and everyone else here only
>>> cares about denigration rather than truth.
>>>
>>> Prolog detects [and rejects] pathological self reference in the Gödel 
>>> sentence
>>
>> Prolog alone does not detect pathological self reference. 
> 
> Counter-factual. unify_with_occurs_check() <is> Prolog.

The predicate unify_with_occurs_check is not the same as Prolog. It is
just a small part of the standard language. It is one of those library
predicates that can be used as I said below.
> % This sentence is not true.
> ?- LP = not(true(LP)).
> LP = not(true(LP)).
> ?- unify_with_occurs_check(LP, not(true(LP))).
> false.

Though it does not say why unify_with_occurs_check fails. The result
is the same for unify_with_occurs_check(5, not(true(LP))).

>> It has certain standard predicates

including unify_with_occurs_check

 >> that makes such detection simpler than in typical programming
 >> languages(like Fortran) but the same  detection is possible in
 >> those, too.
>> Gödel's sentence is a sentence in the first order Peano arithmetic.
>> In that language there is no way to express a reference and in
>> particular a self-reference. For the undecidability proof there is
>> no need to interprete the theorem at all. In the proof of an Peano-
>> unprovable arithmetic truth the usual arithmetic interpretation is
>> relevant.

> In PTS if directly in PA there are no inference steps
> that derive G directly in PA then G is ungrounded in
> PA thus essentially meaningless in PA.

Meaning is not relevant. That neither G nor its negation can be
derived in PA is enough to call PA incomplete. In addition Gödel
proved that ddding more postulates and perhaps other symbols
cannot yield a complete consistent theory.

-- 
Mikko

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Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-20 11:57 -0500
  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-21 09:41 +0300
    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-21 08:33 -0500
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-22 10:19 +0300
        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 02:48 -0500
          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-22 11:19 +0300
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 08:17 -0500
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-23 10:06 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 08:49 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-24 09:33 +0300
          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-04-22 17:06 -0600
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 20:21 -0500
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-04-24 00:19 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 21:12 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 21:14 -0700
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 18:25 -0700
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 18:29 -0700
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-20 17:50 +0100
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 12:32 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-27 07:53 +0100
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 07:19 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 09:50 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-28 11:39 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 21:52 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-29 09:14 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 08:29 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 11:05 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 13:16 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 12:29 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 14:08 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 13:33 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 14:47 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 14:02 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 15:06 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 14:58 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 16:10 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 15:18 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 16:39 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 16:25 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 17:38 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:03 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 18:36 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:45 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 19:37 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 19:01 -0600
                The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:19 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 19:54 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:17 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 20:31 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:42 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 20:49 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 22:06 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 15:18 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 16:45 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 15:56 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:04 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:34 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 21:57 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:02 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:10 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:17 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:49 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 00:01 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:20 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 07:55 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 09:40 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:33 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:01 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:10 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:20 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:34 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:53 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:57 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:06 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:40 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:50 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 13:23 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:47 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:11 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:28 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:50 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:52 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 15:10 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 17:43 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 17:09 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 19:05 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 18:39 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 20:01 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 19:23 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 21:03 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 00:02 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 08:45 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:48 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:17 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:12 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:21 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:38 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:46 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:43 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 15:22 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:11 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:49 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:15 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:21 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:35 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:54 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:59 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:09 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:19 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:44 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:52 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:23 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:31 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:42 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-01 19:18 +0000
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:45 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:51 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:56 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:02 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:05 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 13:31 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:53 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:13 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:29 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:37 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:50 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:57 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:04 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 17:15 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 18:37 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:36 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 21:53 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:00 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:17 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:18 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:29 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:34 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:37 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:43 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:59 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 00:01 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:03 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-02 09:57 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 09:51 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 12:04 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 11:52 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 12:55 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 13:13 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 14:22 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 14:33 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 15:52 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 15:53 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:54 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:12 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:23 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:40 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:59 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:13 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:32 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:35 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:47 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:53 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:59 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:49 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 20:03 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-03 12:22 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 10:36 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:50 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:52 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:10 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:10 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:18 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:36 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:40 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:47 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 17:37 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 16:51 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:52 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:58 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:05 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:19 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:37 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:43 -0400
                The truth about the halting problem counter-example input olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:11 -0500
                Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 23:23 -0400
                Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:58 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:48 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:46 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:10 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:11 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:02 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:18 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:43 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:27 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:45 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:53 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:35 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 16:59 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:57 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:55 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:08 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:12 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:00 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:41 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 08:38 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:40 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:37 +0300
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 08:32 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:37 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-03 17:27 +0000
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 21:31 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:17 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:04 -0400
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:11 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 16:56 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 16:06 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:08 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:42 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 16:51 -0600
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 21:07 -0500
                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:26 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-30 11:18 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 08:58 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-01 10:24 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 10:16 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-02 09:55 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 09:49 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-03 12:28 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 10:38 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:35 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:20 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:37 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:13 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 14:32 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:08 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:06 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:04 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-29 10:50 +0100
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 08:01 -0500
  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-26 20:01 +0000
    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:54 -0500
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-04-26 20:16 -0400
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-27 12:30 +0300
        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 09:53 -0500
          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-27 19:15 +0000
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 15:10 -0500
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-27 21:03 +0000
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 16:57 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-28 10:34 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:18 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-29 09:37 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 09:17 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-30 10:55 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 07:01 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-01 11:24 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 09:54 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 10:47 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 11:01 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 14:35 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 12:54 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:36 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-30 13:14 +0100
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:41 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 19:47 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-02 11:04 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 07:36 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-03 10:56 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 10:22 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 06:14 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 12:04 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:14 -0500
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-27 22:01 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 17:22 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:30 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-29 10:11 +0300
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 10:35 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-29 14:27 +0000
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-01 21:17 +0200
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 12:34 -0700
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 14:38 -0500
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-01 22:10 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-02 16:26 +0200
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 09:54 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-02 18:47 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:06 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-06 21:37 +0200
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 13:48 -0600
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 12:59 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-30 16:10 +0100
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-07 01:12 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 20:56 -0700
    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-30 06:54 +0100

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