Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
| From | DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.lang |
| Subject | Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? |
| References | (5 earlier) <1754509655-5108@newsgrouper.org> <1754676785-5108@newsgrouper.org> <1075vjt$102g7$1@dont-email.me> <1754705683-5108@newsgrouper.org> <1754706684-5108@newsgrouper.org> |
| Date | 2025-08-10 22:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1754865366-5108@newsgrouper.org> (permalink) |
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
>
> DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
>
> >
> > Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> posted:
> >
> > > On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> > > >>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> > > >>>> <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> > > >>>>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> > > >>>>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> > > >>>>>>> currency outside the US.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
> > > >>>>>> was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
> > > >>>>>> other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
> > > >>>>>> thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
> > > >>>>>> papoose.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> > > >>>>> referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Please...write "some people".
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> > > >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> > > >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> > > >>> the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> > > >>> of keeping them bound up.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
> > > >>> loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> > > >>> baby is a papoose.
> > > >>
> > > >> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
> > > >
> > > > Algonquin: papoose = child?
> > >
> > > It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance
> > > in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A
> > > Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
> > >
> >
> > Under Wikipedia Massachusett Pidgin English, I found some support:
> > pappoose,[14] 'baby.' Possibly from Narragansett pappoòs. Massachusett form is papeiss[25] (pâpeewees})[26] /paːpiːwiːs/}. Compare Mohegan-Pequot pápohs /paːpuːhs/.[27]
> >
> > 27 papohs. (2012). Fielding, S. Mohegan Dictionary. Mohegan Tribe
> >
> > Seems certain then, papoose was indeed baby, not cradleboard.
> >
>
> Cite at Mohegan Pequot dictionary
>
> páhpohs, NA child, baby
> plural páhpohsak locative páhpohsuk
> Nuwiktamumun yo natawahuwôk, wipi côci nupásawômun páhpohs i nikun:
> We have enjoyed this visit, but we must take our baby home.
The papV might parallel babV in English? Shared lineage or convergence?
Baby: late 14c., "infant, young child of either sex," short for baban (early 13c.), which probably is imitative of baby talk (see babble (v.)). In many languages the word means "old woman" (compare Russian babushka "grandmother," from baba "peasant woman"), and it is also sometimes a child's variant of papa "father."The simplest articulations, and those which are readiest caught by the infant mouth, are the syllables formed by the vowel a with the primary consonants of the labial and dental classes, especially the former ; ma, ba, pa, na, da, ta. Out of these, therefore, is very generally formed the limited vocabulary required at the earliest period of infant life comprising the names for father, mother, infant, breast, food. [Hensleigh Wedgwood, "A Dictionary of English Etymology," 1859
Child: Old English cild "fetus, infant, unborn or newly born person," from Proto-Germanic *kiltham (source also of Gothic kilþei "womb," inkilþo "pregnant;" Danish kuld "children of the same marriage;" Old Swedish kulder "litter;" Old English cildhama "womb," lit. "child-home"); it has no certain cognates outside Germanic. "App[arently] originally always used in relation to the mother as the 'fruit of the womb'" [Buck]
Kildhama @ OE: womb (child home {poetic?}), also, wamba @ OE : womb cf kom @ OD
: cup-bowl (form). ~ kild+XyuAMbuA, xyUAMBuA, XyUAM
> >
> > > > Boy. Mukkutchouks
> > > > Girl. Nunksqua
> > > > Infant, or child. Mukkie
> > > > Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
> > > > ---
> > > > [Algonquin English translator]
> > > > Baby. Ninige
> > > > Child Ninigo
> > > > ---
> > > > [Proto-Algonquin English translator]
> > > > Child. awaᐧsi- na
> > > > Child niᐧčyaᐧna na
> > > > Cree awaᐧsis child
> > > > Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child
> > > > ---
> > > > Waboose. baby rabbit
> > > > ---
> > > > child (a youth) [Swadesh list]
> > > >
> > > > abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
> > > > pookáá (Blackfoot Algonquin)
> > > > mimëns (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
> > > > eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
> > > > ayoli (Cherokee Iroquois)
> > > > nakatseke (Nataway Iroquois)
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > 5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
> > > >
> > > > https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
> > > >
> > >
Back to sci.lang | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-08-31 19:54 +0100
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” dougstaples@gmx.com (LionelEdwards) - 2024-08-31 20:16 +0000
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-01 17:31 +0100
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-08-31 22:17 +0100
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-01 18:36 +0200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-09-01 09:59 -0700
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2024-09-01 11:43 -0600
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 15:39 -0400
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2024-09-01 23:04 -0400
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 00:22 -0400
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-09-02 11:56 +0100
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 23:57 +1000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 10:52 -0400
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 15:30 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-06 19:47 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-07 14:46 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-08 18:13 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2025-08-09 11:01 +1200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-09 02:14 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-09 02:31 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-10 22:36 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-02 12:33 +0000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-03 00:01 +1000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 11:45 -0400
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 05:11 +0200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-03 08:31 +0100
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 17:53 +0200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-09-03 15:33 -0600
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-04 21:15 +0200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-04 10:10 +1000
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2024-09-04 16:26 +1200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-04 10:35 +0200
Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2024-09-06 13:42 -0400
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 14:35 -0700
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-09-06 19:57 -0700
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-07 09:28 +0100
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-07 11:28 +0200
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-07 11:50 +0100
Sprog Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-08 05:44 +0200
Re: Sprog Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2024-09-08 12:45 +0100
Re: Sprog Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-08 21:59 +1000
Re: Sprog Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-08 16:16 +0200
Re: Sprog "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-08 14:32 +0100
Re: Sprog Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-09 01:42 +0200
Re: Sprog Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-09-08 17:27 -0700
Re: Sprog jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-09 02:34 +0000
Re: Sprog jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-09 02:34 +0000
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-08-31 15:47 -0600
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-01 09:56 +1000
Re: Word of the day: �Papoose� Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 18:45 -0400
Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-01 01:52 +0000
csiph-web