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ICC profile for a light box

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  ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-25 06:02 -0400
    Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-25 07:38 -0400
      Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-25 08:33 -0400
        Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-25 11:21 -0400
          Re: ICC profile for a light box Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-07-26 12:43 +1200
      Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-30 19:44 -0400
        Re: ICC profile for a light box Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-07-30 17:31 -0700
          Re: ICC profile for a light box Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-07-30 17:33 -0700
            Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-30 21:49 -0400
              Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-30 21:57 -0400
                Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 05:52 -0400
                  Re: ICC profile for a light box Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-07-31 06:01 -0700
                    Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 09:58 -0400
                      Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-31 10:06 -0400
                        Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 10:22 -0400
                      Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 10:30 -0400
                        Re: ICC profile for a light box Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-07-31 07:46 -0700
                          Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 11:59 -0400
                            Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 20:35 -0400
                    Re: ICC profile for a light box Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-08-01 12:24 +1200
                      Re: ICC profile for a light box Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2018-08-02 09:54 +0100
                        Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-08-02 15:48 -0400
                          Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-08-05 14:31 -0400
              Re: ICC profile for a light box Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-07-30 19:07 -0700
                Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 05:51 -0400
          Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-30 21:45 -0400
            Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-30 21:46 -0400
              Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 05:52 -0400
                Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-31 07:07 -0400
              Re: ICC profile for a light box PeterN <"peter,newdelete"@deleteverizon.net> - 2018-08-02 18:28 -0400
        Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-30 21:31 -0400
          Re: ICC profile for a light box dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2018-07-30 21:47 -0400
          Re: ICC profile for a light box Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2018-08-01 12:28 +1200
            Re: ICC profile for a light box nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-07-31 20:59 -0400

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#4356 — ICC profile for a light box

I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for 
a viewing environment like a light box.

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4357

In article <bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
wrote:

> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for 
> a viewing environment like a light box.

there is.

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#4358

On 7/25/2018 7:38 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
>> a viewing environment like a light box.
> 
> there is.
> 

link/source?

Does ICC use CIECAM02 for this?

CIECAM02 requires LMS as a profile connection space to and from XYZ. Is 
your source only for XYZ profiles?

Other implementations:

1) an official LMS profile connection space?
2) 7 colors of the rainbow plus K profile connection space?
3) spectral data profile connection space?

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4359

In article <bf6g7k.ifp.19.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
wrote:

> >> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
> >> a viewing environment like a light box.
> > 
> > there is.
> 
> link/source?

<https://www.google.com>

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#4360

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:21:37 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <bf6g7k.ifp.19.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
>wrote:
>
>> >> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
>> >> a viewing environment like a light box.
>> > 
>> > there is.
>> 
>> link/source?
>
><https://www.google.com>

He don't know.    :-)
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

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#4362

On 7/25/2018 7:38 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
>> a viewing environment like a light box.
> 
> there is.
> 

does Adobe "Light Room" do it? A Light room is a viewing environment ...

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4363

On Jul 30, 2018, dale wrote
(in article <bfkter.30v.19.1@news.alt.net>):

> On 7/25/2018 7:38 AM, nospam wrote:
> > In article<bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
> > > a viewing environment like a light box.
> >
> > there is.
>
> does Adobe "Light Room" do it? A Light room is a viewing environment ...

Lightroom is not a “viewing environment”, your “viewing environment” 
is the room with whatever lighting is being used in that room, together with 
your display/monito, and whatever software you are using to facilitate 
viewing your images. That might well be Lightroom, but that viewing is done 
on whichever display/monitor you are using. Ideally you are using a 
calibrated display/monitor. That calibration should be done using one of the 
tools available from Datacolor, or X-Rite such as the Spyder5Pro, X-Rite 
ColorMunki display, X-Rite i1Display Pro, X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer, 
or any of the tools they offer.

After display/monitor calibration those tools, and software can generate an 
icc profile for the display/monitor, and room lighting which can be applied 
via Lightroom, for viewing images under that specific lighting. Some of these 
calibration tools also hgave the capability to adjust calibration according 
to changing light in that room.

Then you have the issue of generating printer/paper icc profiles for 
printing, which are quite different to display/monitor calibration profiles.

<http://x-rite.com>

<https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck

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#4364

On Jul 30, 2018, Savageduck wrote
(in article<0001HW.210FE5460028FC0270000C8932CF@news.giganews.com>):

> On Jul 30, 2018, dale wrote
> (in article <bfkter.30v.19.1@news.alt.net>):
>
> > On 7/25/2018 7:38 AM, nospam wrote:
> > > In article<bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
> > > > a viewing environment like a light box.
> > >
> > > there is.
> >
> > does Adobe "Light Room" do it? A Light room is a viewing environment ...
>
> Lightroom is not a “viewing environment”, your “viewing environment”
> is the room with whatever lighting is being used in that room, together with
> your display/monito, and whatever software you are using to facilitate
> viewing your images. That might well be Lightroom, but that viewing is done
> on whichever display/monitor you are using. Ideally you are using a
> calibrated display/monitor. That calibration should be done using one of the
> tools available from Datacolor, or X-Rite such as the Spyder5Pro, X-Rite
> ColorMunki display, X-Rite i1Display Pro, X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer,
> or any of the tools they offer.
>
> After display/monitor calibration those tools, and software can generate an
> icc profile for the display/monitor, and room lighting which can be applied
> via Lightroom, for viewing images under that specific lighting. Some of these
> calibration tools also hgave the capability to adjust calibration according
> to changing light in that room.
>
> Then you have the issue of generating printer/paper icc profiles for
> printing, which are quite different to display/monitor calibration profiles.
>
> <http://x-rite.com>

Try this: <https://www.xrite.com>

> <https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck

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#4369

On 7/30/2018 8:33 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Jul 30, 2018, Savageduck wrote
> (in article<0001HW.210FE5460028FC0270000C8932CF@news.giganews.com>):
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2018, dale wrote
>> (in article <bfkter.30v.19.1@news.alt.net>):
>>
>>> On 7/25/2018 7:38 AM, nospam wrote:
>>>> In article<bf67c8.j34.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if there is a software/instrument to make a profile for
>>>>> a viewing environment like a light box.
>>>>
>>>> there is.
>>>
>>> does Adobe "Light Room" do it? A Light room is a viewing environment ...
>>
>> Lightroom is not a “viewing environment”, your “viewing environment”
>> is the room with whatever lighting is being used in that room, together with
>> your display/monito, and whatever software you are using to facilitate
>> viewing your images. That might well be Lightroom, but that viewing is done
>> on whichever display/monitor you are using. Ideally you are using a
>> calibrated display/monitor. That calibration should be done using one of the
>> tools available from Datacolor, or X-Rite such as the Spyder5Pro, X-Rite
>> ColorMunki display, X-Rite i1Display Pro, X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer,
>> or any of the tools they offer.
>>
>> After display/monitor calibration those tools, and software can generate an
>> icc profile for the display/monitor, and room lighting which can be applied
>> via Lightroom, for viewing images under that specific lighting. Some of these
>> calibration tools also hgave the capability to adjust calibration according
>> to changing light in that room.
>>
>> Then you have the issue of generating printer/paper icc profiles for
>> printing, which are quite different to display/monitor calibration profiles.
>>
>> <http://x-rite.com>
> 
> Try this: <https://www.xrite.com>
> 
>> <https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/>
> 

might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some 
measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4370

In article <bfl4oa.9ei.19.3@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
wrote:

> might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some 
> measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.

lightroom has been fully colour managed since day one.

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#4373

On 7/30/2018 9:57 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <bfl4oa.9ei.19.3@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some
>> measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.
> 
> lightroom has been fully colour managed since day one.
> 

there is a difference between managing color and managing appearance, 
look up CIECAM02 on wikipedia

viewing environment like a light room is one variable in appearance

I think ICC considers CIECAM02

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4376

On Jul 31, 2018, dale wrote
(in article <bfm11i.dud.17.2@news.alt.net>):

> On 7/30/2018 9:57 PM, nospam wrote:
> > In article<bfl4oa.9ei.19.3@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some
> > > measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.
> >
> > lightroom has been fully colour managed since day one.
>
> there is a difference between managing color and managing appearance,
> look up CIECAM02 on wikipedia
>
> viewing environment like a light room is one variable in appearance

What exactly do you believe is a *light room*?

Understand that any viewing environment is going to be influenced by amient 
light, regardless of the specific light source be it day light, or any type 
of artificial lighting.

What is your specific, or special purpose/interest for needing this specific 
icc profile for a *light room* (not LR the app)?

It doesn’t sound as though you have any interest in color management for 
photography post processing.
>
>
> I think ICC considers CIECAM02

You think?

CIECAM02 is a color model.

Perhaps looking at the entire Datacolor, and/or X-Rite Pantone sites might 
provide some information regarding color management outside the realm of 
photography. Some how I don’t believe that anything us photographers say is 
going to satisfy you.

<https://www.datacolor.com>
<https://www.xrite.com>

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck

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#4377

On 7/31/2018 9:01 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2018, dale wrote
> (in article <bfm11i.dud.17.2@news.alt.net>):
> 
>> On 7/30/2018 9:57 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> In article<bfl4oa.9ei.19.3@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some
>>>> measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.
>>>
>>> lightroom has been fully colour managed since day one.
>>
>> there is a difference between managing color and managing appearance,
>> look up CIECAM02 on wikipedia
>>
>> viewing environment like a light room is one variable in appearance
> 
> What exactly do you believe is a *light room*?


a viewing environment a lab makes an agreement with its customer's as to 
how their final product will look in their viewing environment

yes, this can can be a monitor setup, that involves viewing angle and 
other "appearance" facts other than just "color"

could be a lightbox too ...

a monitor environment is a soft proof
a prepress proof in a light box is a hard proof
etc.




> 
> Understand that any viewing environment is going to be influenced by amient
> light, regardless of the specific light source be it day light, or any type
> of artificial lighting.


not to be over-complicated, but why would CIE come up with CIECAM97 and 
CIECAM02 if they didn't think environmental factors influencing 
appearance in a worthwhile workflow

Windows Vista did CIECAM(date?)

did you look up CIECAM02 in wikipedia?


> 
> What is your specific, or special purpose/interest for needing this specific
> icc profile for a *light room* (not LR the app)?

managing appearance


> 
> It doesn’t sound as though you have any interest in color management for
> photography post processing.


color is just a part of color appearance

there are other factors outside the realm of CIECAM that influence 
appearance, like interimage ... one interimage factor involves 
composition of the photo, another is user "look and feel" preference 
other than accurate reproduction ... "look and feel" can be handled in 
ICC "abstract" profiles

consumers prefer bluer blue skies than they really are, and greener 
grass ... professional customers have their own preferences too


>>
>>
>> I think ICC considers CIECAM02
> 
> You think?

not an expert at it, should have displayed more confidence since I know 
some of it

> 
> CIECAM02 is a color model.

it is a color "appearance" model


> 
> Perhaps looking at the entire Datacolor, and/or X-Rite Pantone sites might
> provide some information regarding color management outside the realm of
> photography. Some how I don’t believe that anything us photographers say is
> going to satisfy you.
> 
> <https://www.datacolor.com>
> <https://www.xrite.com>
> 

I am familiar with a little more than the basics of 
instrumental/absolute color management ...

the name of the product "Lightroom" reminded me of light boxes and 
viewing environment setups used for soft/hard proofing in prepress ... 
and film/paper design

for pro-sumers absolute color management might be a good enough 
workflow, I was interested to see how relative color management ... 
appearance models ... have progressed in the professional markets ....


-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4378

In article <bfmffe.s4a.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
wrote:

> I am familiar with a little more than the basics of 
> instrumental/absolute color management ...

too bad you don't understand any of it.

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#4379

On 7/31/2018 10:06 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <bfmffe.s4a.17.1@news.alt.net>, dale <dale@dalekelly.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I am familiar with a little more than the basics of
>> instrumental/absolute color management ...
> 
> too bad you don't understand any of it.
> 

at worst I'm not up to date

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4380

On 7/31/2018 9:58 AM, dale wrote:
>> CIECAM02 is a color model.
> 
> it is a color "appearance" model

a model is not an application, I would apply CIECAM with an LMS profile 
connection space, that way you could have viewing/appearance "relevant" 
conditions in/out of LMS from XYZ, uvL, CIELAB, etc. then through an 
"absolute" profiles to/from images in the  viewing environments

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4381

On Jul 31, 2018, dale wrote
(in article <bfmhal.kq4.17.1@news.alt.net>):

> On 7/31/2018 9:58 AM, dale wrote:
> > > CIECAM02 is a color model.
> >
> > it is a color "appearance" model
>
> a model is not an application, I would apply CIECAM with an LMS profile
> connection space, that way you could have viewing/appearance "relevant"
> conditions in/out of LMS from XYZ, uvL, CIELAB, etc. then through an
> "absolute" profiles to/from images in the viewing environments

I am still curious as to your particular need for all this exploration into 
profiles. I know that I maintain a color managed workflow starting with a 
calibrated display, and camera/lens profiles. That gets extended into 
printing where I use paper/printer specific icc profiles together with soft 
proofing to get the best print results I can produce.

I still have no idea if you are a photographer struggling with a workflow, a 
designer working with fabrics, an advertising exec, or somebody in the print 
industry.

-- 

Regards,
Savageduck

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#4382

On 7/31/2018 10:46 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2018, dale wrote
> (in article <bfmhal.kq4.17.1@news.alt.net>):
> 
>> On 7/31/2018 9:58 AM, dale wrote:
>>>> CIECAM02 is a color model.
>>>
>>> it is a color "appearance" model
>>
>> a model is not an application, I would apply CIECAM with an LMS profile
>> connection space, that way you could have viewing/appearance "relevant"
>> conditions in/out of LMS from XYZ, uvL, CIELAB, etc. then through an
>> "absolute" profiles to/from images in the viewing environments
> 
> I am still curious as to your particular need for all this exploration into
> profiles. I know that I maintain a color managed workflow starting with a
> calibrated display, and camera/lens profiles. That gets extended into
> printing where I use paper/printer specific icc profiles together with soft
> proofing to get the best print results I can produce.
> 
> I still have no idea if you are a photographer struggling with a workflow, a
> designer working with fabrics, an advertising exec, or somebody in the print
> industry.
> 

used to do development of these types of systems, over 20 years ago, and 
now like to see where they are at, I keep up a resume just in case 
something comes up, it is under "images" on the website in my signature

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4386

On 7/31/2018 11:59 AM, dale wrote:
> I keep up a resume just in case something comes up, it is under "images" 
> on the website in my signature

just updated it to reflect some honors societies and certificate numbers ...

might change it again to reflect I have some computer systems and 
programing I picked up along the way and I have used to date

-- 
dale - https://www.dalekelly.org/
Not a professional opinion unless specified.

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#4384

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 06:01:58 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On Jul 31, 2018, dale wrote
>(in article <bfm11i.dud.17.2@news.alt.net>):
>
>> On 7/30/2018 9:57 PM, nospam wrote:
>> > In article<bfl4oa.9ei.19.3@news.alt.net>, dale<dale@dalekelly.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > might be a nice feature for Lightroom ... compatible with some
>> > > measurement instruments ... and data like viewing angle, white point, etc.
>> >
>> > lightroom has been fully colour managed since day one.
>>
>> there is a difference between managing color and managing appearance,
>> look up CIECAM02 on wikipedia
>>
>> viewing environment like a light room is one variable in appearance
>
>What exactly do you believe is a *light room*?
>
>Understand that any viewing environment is going to be influenced by amient 
>light, regardless of the specific light source be it day light, or any type 
>of artificial lighting.
>
>What is your specific, or special purpose/interest for needing this specific 
>icc profile for a *light room* (not LR the app)?
>
>It doesn’t sound as though you have any interest in color management for 
>photography post processing.

My impression is quite the contrary. Why else do you need color
management if it is to enable the management and control of the
appearance of the finished print? The process starts with the object,
continues through the camera, the processing in computer (which
includes the screen or monitor), on through the printer and paper and
surely (and this is the subject of the OP's original post) includes
the viewing environment.
>>
>>
>> I think ICC considers CIECAM02
>
>You think?
>
>CIECAM02 is a color model.
>
>Perhaps looking at the entire Datacolor, and/or X-Rite Pantone sites might 
>provide some information regarding color management outside the realm of 
>photography. Some how I don’t believe that anything us photographers say is 
>going to satisfy you.
>
><https://www.datacolor.com>
><https://www.xrite.com>
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

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