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SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird

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  SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-22 15:53 -0400
    Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-22 17:53 -0700
      Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-22 18:42 -0700
        Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-22 18:56 -0700
      Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-22 23:19 -0400
        Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2017-05-22 23:14 -0500
          Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 00:17 -0400
            Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-05-23 14:15 -0500
    Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-07-14 09:01 -0400
      Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-14 10:37 -0400
        Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-07-14 11:54 -0400
          Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-14 14:47 -0400
            Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Bert Hickman <bert-hickman@comcast.net> - 2017-07-14 15:25 -0500
              Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-07-14 21:34 +0100
              Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-07-14 16:51 -0400
            Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-07-14 16:25 -0400
        Re: SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2017-07-14 22:58 +0000

#461289 — SeaMonkey vs. Thunderbird

I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up, 
but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to 
see what version it is.

So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info 
automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a 
long time ago.

I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The 
fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group 
lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me. 
More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll 
have to dig further.

At least SeaMonkey works.

-- 

Rick C

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#461308

rickman wrote...
>
>I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up, 
>but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to 
>see what version it is.
>
>So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info 
>automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a 
>long time ago.
>
>I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The 
>fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group 
>lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me. 
>More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll 
>have to dig further.
>
>At least SeaMonkey works.

 I prefer T-Bird over the rest.  How about uninstalling TBird,
 then reinstalling and let it grab its settings from SeaMonkey.


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

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#461312

On 22 May 2017 17:53:37 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

>rickman wrote...
>>
>>I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up, 
>>but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to 
>>see what version it is.
>>
>>So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info 
>>automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a 
>>long time ago.
>>
>>I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The 
>>fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group 
>>lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me. 
>>More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll 
>>have to dig further.
>>
>>At least SeaMonkey works.
>
> I prefer T-Bird over the rest.  How about uninstalling TBird,
> then reinstalling and let it grab its settings from SeaMonkey.

Why not get a proper newsreader, such as Agent?
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that
is the secret of happiness."  -James Barrie

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#461313

Jim Thompson wrote...
>
> Winfield Hill wrote:
>>
>> I prefer T-Bird over the rest.  How about uninstalling TBird,
>> then reinstalling and let it grab its settings from SeaMonkey.
>
> Why not get a proper newsreader, such as Agent?

 Hey, even though Thunderbird can do news reading, I suppose,
 I use a proper newsreader, from Newsguy.com.  Thunderbird
 is for official 300 work emails/day.  Plus Yahoo and Gmail.


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

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#461315

Winfield Hill wrote:
> rickman wrote...
>>
>> I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up,
>> but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to
>> see what version it is.
>>
>> So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info
>> automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a
>> long time ago.
>>
>> I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The
>> fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group
>> lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me.
>> More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll
>> have to dig further.
>>
>> At least SeaMonkey works.
>
>  I prefer T-Bird over the rest.  How about uninstalling TBird,
>  then reinstalling and let it grab its settings from SeaMonkey.

Have you tried SeaMonkey?  I don't know if T-bird will import settings 
from SeaMonkey, do you?  I also don't know if it will work any better 
than it did before.  I've put off switching for sometime.  T-bird has 
been a PITA for months because it has delays for not apparent reason.

-- 

Rick C

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#461319

rickman wrote:

> 
> Have you tried SeaMonkey?  I don't know if T-bird will import settings
> from SeaMonkey, do you?  I also don't know if it will work any better
> than it did before.  I've put off switching for sometime.  T-bird has
> been a PITA for months because it has delays for not apparent reason.
> 
This is a known problem.  Thunderbird does sorts on the messages in memory, 
and with large newsgroups, that can overflow and cause thrashing to disk.
For that reason, I switched to knode for newsgroups.  I still use 
Thunderbird for email, it works fine for that.

Jon

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#461320

Jon Elson wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>>
>> Have you tried SeaMonkey?  I don't know if T-bird will import settings
>> from SeaMonkey, do you?  I also don't know if it will work any better
>> than it did before.  I've put off switching for sometime.  T-bird has
>> been a PITA for months because it has delays for not apparent reason.
>>
> This is a known problem.  Thunderbird does sorts on the messages in memory,
> and with large newsgroups, that can overflow and cause thrashing to disk.
> For that reason, I switched to knode for newsgroups.  I still use
> Thunderbird for email, it works fine for that.

The funny thing is when I see T-bird freeze up I don't see any abnormal 
activity either on the disk, CPU or networking.  I would expect this to 
show up on resource monitor.

I am seeing small delays in SeaMonkey.  But with T-bird it would freeze 
for so long I would go play Sudoku or go get something to drink.

-- 

Rick C

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#461413

rickman wrote:

> Jon Elson wrote:
>> rickman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Have you tried SeaMonkey?  I don't know if T-bird will import settings
>>> from SeaMonkey, do you?  I also don't know if it will work any better
>>> than it did before.  I've put off switching for sometime.  T-bird has
>>> been a PITA for months because it has delays for not apparent reason.
>>>
>> This is a known problem.  Thunderbird does sorts on the messages in
>> memory, and with large newsgroups, that can overflow and cause thrashing
>> to disk.
>> For that reason, I switched to knode for newsgroups.  I still use
>> Thunderbird for email, it works fine for that.
> 
> The funny thing is when I see T-bird freeze up I don't see any abnormal
> activity either on the disk, CPU or networking.  I would expect this to
> show up on resource monitor.
> 
OK, I only know the Linux version, which could behave differently.  I moved 
my newreading off of T-bird quite a few years ago, so I don't recall if it 
caused heavy disk I/O or not.  But, it would cause complete lockup of T-bird 
for several minutes.  The cause was a really active newsgroup, which my news 
service kept files back to 1990 or so, so there were several hundred K of 
message headers to sort through.  There was supposed to be a time horizon 
for newsgroups, but possibly once all those ancient messages had been 
loaded, it would not get rid of them, only reject loading any fresh messages 
older than the horizon.  I guess I could have unsubscribed and deleted the 
folder and re-subscribed.  Anyway, the problem is solved by using knode for 
news and T-bird for email, and I'm happy.  knode is very similar to T-bird, 
I'm guessing it may have derived from Mozilla/T-bird as some point.
> I am seeing small delays in SeaMonkey.  But with T-bird it would freeze
> for so long I would go play Sudoku or go get something to drink.
> 
Oh, yeah, the T-bird lockups were really long.

Jon

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#468422

rickman wrote:
> I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up,
> but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to
> see what version it is.
>
> So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info
> automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a
> long time ago.
>
> I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The
> fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group
> lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me.
> More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll
> have to dig further.
>
> At least SeaMonkey works.


    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on a 
24" monitor.


-- 
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

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#468430

Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
> rickman wrote:
>> I updated T-bird and it quit working.  It starts and the app comes up,
>> but it is dysfunctional.  It won't even open the "about" information to
>> see what version it is.
>>
>> So I downloaded SeaMonkey and it loaded all the configuration info
>> automagically.  If I had known it was this easy I would have done it a
>> long time ago.
>>
>> I'm not as happy with the user interface as I was with T-bird.  The
>> fonts are smaller and more crowded when viewing the message and group
>> lists.  My vision is not always so good, so this is important to me.
>> More importantly I wasn't able to easily find support of any sort.  I'll
>> have to dig further.
>>
>> At least SeaMonkey works.
>
>
>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on a 24"
> monitor.

That changes the font size in exactly one pane.

SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems to 
have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has many other 
problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group, but there isn't 
much help there.  Seems like some people have problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird 
and others don't.

-- 

Rick C

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#468438

rickman wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
>>
>>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on a 24"
>> monitor.
>
> That changes the font size in exactly one pane.
>
> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems
> to have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has
> many other problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group,
> but there isn't much help there.  Seems like some people have
> problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird and others don't.


    Big deal. How much time do you spend, on the others? You can always 
change the screen's resolution. I prefer the older Netscape 4.78, but it 
won't install on this 64 bit Win 7 Pro system.


-- 
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

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#468455

Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 11:54 AM:
> rickman wrote:
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
>>>
>>>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on a 24"
>>> monitor.
>>
>> That changes the font size in exactly one pane.
>>
>> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems
>> to have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has
>> many other problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group,
>> but there isn't much help there.  Seems like some people have
>> problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird and others don't.
>
>
>    Big deal. How much time do you spend, on the others?

Too much because they are hard to read.

> You can always
> change the screen's resolution.

I know.  I set the resolution so the rest of the computer is usable and now 
only the apps that ignore the Windows settings are hard to read.  In 
particular there are icons in SeaMonkey that are *very* hard to distinguish 
because of their size.


> I prefer the older Netscape 4.78, but it
> won't install on this 64 bit Win 7 Pro system.

Some people complain software won't run on old machines.  Some people 
complain software won't run on new machines.  Some people complain because 
the software just won't run.  Damn computers...

-- 

Rick C

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#468475

rickman wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 11:54 AM:
>> rickman wrote:
>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
>>>>
>>>>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on
>>>> a 24"
>>>> monitor.
>>>
>>> That changes the font size in exactly one pane.
>>>
>>> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems
>>> to have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has
>>> many other problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group,
>>> but there isn't much help there.  Seems like some people have
>>> problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird and others don't.
>>
>>
>>    Big deal. How much time do you spend, on the others?
>
> Too much because they are hard to read.
>
>> You can always
>> change the screen's resolution.
>
> I know.  I set the resolution so the rest of the computer is usable and
> now only the apps that ignore the Windows settings are hard to read.  In
> particular there are icons in SeaMonkey that are *very* hard to
> distinguish because of their size.
>
>
>> I prefer the older Netscape 4.78, but it
>> won't install on this 64 bit Win 7 Pro system.
>
> Some people complain software won't run on old machines.  Some people
> complain software won't run on new machines.  Some people complain
> because the software just won't run.  Damn computers...
>

I've used SeaMonkey exclusively since Netscape went away. In addition to 
a browser, email, & news reader, it also has a built-in WYSIWYG HTML 
editor. It also stores individual email folders as pairs of files 
instead of a huge database.

You can easily customize just about any part of SeaMonkey by using 
"Theme Font & Size Changer". This plug-in fixed a problem with getting 
the right size fonts for various SeaMonkey screens (mail, browser, etc.) 
without doing the massive changes created by Windows display size 
changes. Very few problems compared to many other browsers and readers. 
It simply works!

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/theme-font-size-changer/

Bert

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#468479

On 14/07/17 21:25, Bert Hickman wrote:

> I've used SeaMonkey exclusively since Netscape went away. In addition to a
> browser, email, & news reader, it also has a built-in WYSIWYG HTML editor. It
> also stores individual email folders as pairs of files instead of a huge database.

... and in a standard format (mbox) that can be read by
other email clients. Rather useful if SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/X/Y
goes titsup.

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#468483

Bert Hickman wrote on 7/14/2017 4:25 PM:
> rickman wrote:
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 11:54 AM:
>>> rickman wrote:
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
>>>>>
>>>>>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on
>>>>> a 24"
>>>>> monitor.
>>>>
>>>> That changes the font size in exactly one pane.
>>>>
>>>> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems
>>>> to have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has
>>>> many other problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group,
>>>> but there isn't much help there.  Seems like some people have
>>>> problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird and others don't.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Big deal. How much time do you spend, on the others?
>>
>> Too much because they are hard to read.
>>
>>> You can always
>>> change the screen's resolution.
>>
>> I know.  I set the resolution so the rest of the computer is usable and
>> now only the apps that ignore the Windows settings are hard to read.  In
>> particular there are icons in SeaMonkey that are *very* hard to
>> distinguish because of their size.
>>
>>
>>> I prefer the older Netscape 4.78, but it
>>> won't install on this 64 bit Win 7 Pro system.
>>
>> Some people complain software won't run on old machines.  Some people
>> complain software won't run on new machines.  Some people complain
>> because the software just won't run.  Damn computers...
>>
>
> I've used SeaMonkey exclusively since Netscape went away. In addition to a
> browser, email, & news reader, it also has a built-in WYSIWYG HTML editor.
> It also stores individual email folders as pairs of files instead of a huge
> database.
>
> You can easily customize just about any part of SeaMonkey by using "Theme
> Font & Size Changer". This plug-in fixed a problem with getting the right
> size fonts for various SeaMonkey screens (mail, browser, etc.) without doing
> the massive changes created by Windows display size changes. Very few
> problems compared to many other browsers and readers. It simply works!

I was with you until you said that.  The real problem with SeaMonkey is that 
it doesn't fix the problems I had with T-bird.  The delays in running are a 
bit better, but it has other problems I never saw in T-bird.  I can be 
typing a message and the program freezes (as it often does for some seconds) 
but sometimes when it comes back the focus changes to the main window and 
the keystrokes cause all sorts of trouble!  Just one of many problems I 
never saw with T-bird.

-- 

Rick C

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#468476

rickman wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 11:54 AM:
>> rickman wrote:
>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote on 7/14/2017 9:01 AM:
>>>>
>>>>    Select 'View' at the top, then 'Zoom'. I use the 240% setting on
>>>> a 24"
>>>> monitor.
>>>
>>> That changes the font size in exactly one pane.
>>>
>>> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems
>>> to have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has
>>> many other problems as well.  I did manage to find a support group,
>>> but there isn't much help there.  Seems like some people have
>>> problems with SeaMonkey/T-bird and others don't.
>>
>>
>>    Big deal. How much time do you spend, on the others?
>
> Too much because they are hard to read.
>
>> You can always
>> change the screen's resolution.
>
> I know.  I set the resolution so the rest of the computer is usable and
> now only the apps that ignore the Windows settings are hard to read.  In
> particular there are icons in SeaMonkey that are *very* hard to
> distinguish because of their size.
>
>
>> I prefer the older Netscape 4.78, but it
>> won't install on this 64 bit Win 7 Pro system.
>
> Some people complain software won't run on old machines.  Some people
> complain software won't run on new machines.  Some people complain
> because the software just won't run.  Damn computers...

I started with a very early version of Netscape, on my first Win 95 
computer, almost 20 years ago. I used it on 95, 98, ME, NT4, Vista and XP.


-- 
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

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#468525

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> SeaMonkey is every bit as bad a piece of software as T-bird.  It seems to 
> have the same delay problems (although not quite as bad) and has many other 
> problems as well.

Internally it is mostly the same software.

Originally there was Netscape, a combined program with a web browser,
e-mail client and HTML editor, then it was renamed to Mozilla, somebody
decided that it grew too large and ripped the web browser out of it
to be released as a separate program: Firefox.
At that time, people who wanted to continue to use the same e-mail
client ripped that out as well: Thunderbird.
The HTML editor wasn't successfully released as an independent program.
The original combined program then was renamed Mozilla Seamonkey.

Development continued and large modules of software (especially the
internals, a bit less the user interface appearance) were repeatedly
backported from Firefox and Thunderbird back into Seamonkey.

So it is not at all surprising that you see similar behavior between
those.  Also not that they can use eachothers config files and even
mailstore.

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