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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #447305 > unrolled thread

experts aren't

Started byJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
First post2017-02-11 10:59 -0800
Last post2017-02-14 20:07 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 128 — 23 participants

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Contents

  experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-11 10:59 -0800
    Re: experts aren't Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-11 19:14 +0000
      Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-11 11:28 -0800
        Re: experts aren't rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 18:07 -0500
          Re: experts aren't krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-11 18:53 -0500
        Re: experts aren't John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-02-11 15:08 -0800
          Re: experts aren't djlocher56@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 14:21 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 16:16 -0800
          Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 17:20 -0800
            Re: experts aren't Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-13 12:50 +0000
            Re: experts aren't Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-13 13:51 +0000
              Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-13 08:25 -0800
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 17:16 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 06:47 -0800
        Re: experts aren't Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-11 23:37 +0000
        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 16:49 -0800
        Re: experts aren't whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 17:19 -0800
    Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-11 17:39 -0500
      Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-11 16:36 -0800
        Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 12:27 -0500
          Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 10:52 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 16:30 -0800
          Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:28 +0000
            Re: experts aren't Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-12 11:44 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 15:05 -0500
              Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 12:25 -0800
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 16:39 -0800
            Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 12:23 -0800
        Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 12:40 -0500
    Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:59 +0000
      Re: experts aren't rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 18:17 -0500
      Re: experts aren't krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-11 18:54 -0500
        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 17:05 -0800
        Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-11 17:09 -0800
          Re: experts aren't rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 20:33 -0500
          Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 18:32 -0800
          Re: experts aren't whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 20:50 -0800
          Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 15:11 -0500
            Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 15:22 -0500
            Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 12:32 -0800
              Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 15:44 -0500
                Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 15:47 -0500
                  Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 13:11 -0800
                    Re: experts aren't bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 16:34 -0500
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 17:10 -0800
              Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 16:57 -0800
      Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 16:58 -0800
        Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:36 +0000
          Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 08:36 -0800
            Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:44 +0000
              Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 12:38 -0800
                Re: experts aren't Julian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com> - 2017-02-12 23:43 +0000
                  Re: experts aren't krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-12 19:24 -0500
                    Re: experts aren't Julian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com> - 2017-02-13 00:53 +0000
                      Re: experts aren't krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-12 20:18 -0500
                  Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-12 17:27 -0800
                  Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 18:28 -0800
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 18:26 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 18:29 -0800
          Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 17:43 -0800
    Re: experts aren't rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 18:02 -0500
    Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 16:43 -0800
    Re: experts aren't Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-02-11 21:42 -0800
      Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:19 -0800
        Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 04:45 -0800
          Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:44 +0000
            Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 01:16 -0800
              Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 07:42 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 07:39 -0800
          Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 18:02 -0800
            Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 01:38 -0800
          Re: experts aren't whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:54 -0800
            Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 01:45 -0800
              Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 07:52 -0800
    Re: experts aren't bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 00:13 -0800
      Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:23 -0800
    Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 03:56 -0800
      Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:33 -0800
        Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 04:46 -0800
          Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 18:49 -0800
            Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 01:41 -0800
              Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-13 07:55 -0800
                Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-14 01:13 -0800
                  Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 03:21 -0800
                    Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-14 22:22 +0000
                      Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-14 14:48 -0800
                        Re: experts aren't George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 17:09 -0800
                        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 19:22 -0800
                      Re: experts aren't whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:56 -0800
                        Re: experts aren't John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 18:05 +0000
                      Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 19:21 -0800
                      Re: experts aren't "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-02-18 21:41 -0500
                        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-18 19:05 -0800
    Re: experts aren't Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-14 10:40 +0000
      Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-14 03:42 -0800
        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 04:14 -0800
          Re: experts aren't jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 08:56 -0800
            Re: experts aren't John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-02-15 10:35 -0800
              Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-15 10:46 -0800
                Re: experts aren't George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 11:38 -0800
                Re: experts aren't John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-02-15 12:18 -0800
                  Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-15 15:51 -0800
                    Re: experts aren't John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-02-15 16:26 -0800
              Re: experts aren't krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-15 20:59 -0500
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-15 20:01 -0800
            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-15 15:43 -0800
              Re: experts aren't John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-02-15 16:38 -0800
                Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-15 19:38 -0800
                  Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:25 +0000
                    Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-17 21:47 -0800
                      Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:49 +0000
                        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-18 05:13 -0800
                          Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-18 22:39 +0000
                            Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-18 18:12 -0800
                        Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-18 11:43 -0800
                          Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-18 17:52 -0800
              Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:17 +0000
                Re: experts aren't M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2017-02-18 16:46 -0500
                Re: experts aren't Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-02-19 05:35 +0000
                  Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-19 02:15 -0800
                    Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-19 03:28 -0800
                      Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-19 03:31 -0800
                        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-19 09:23 -0800
                  Re: experts aren't Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-20 00:31 +0000
                    Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-19 17:31 -0800
          Re: experts aren't tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-02-17 13:43 -0800
      Re: experts aren't John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-14 07:08 -0800
        Re: experts aren't bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-14 20:07 -0800

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#447454

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-02-12 15:44 -0500
Message-ID<sO3oA.4087$kK.660@fx15.iad>
In reply to#447452
On 02/12/2017 03:32 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
>>>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most experts
>>>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the average
>>>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
>>>>>
>>>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
>>>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
>>>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is they
>>>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get away with
>>>>> their old nonsense again and again and again.
>>>>
>>>> Kinda like climatologists.
>>>
>>> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
>>> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
>>> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
>>
>> Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me
>> completely by surprise.
>>
>>
>
> The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
> the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
> terrible, things are wild outliers.

 From the summary it does seem like the kind of book climate change 
"skeptics" would glom onto. "It's all too complicated! We just can't 
predict anything. Stuff just happens. Experts don't know what they're 
talking about."

Meanwhile the virtues of the Invisible Hand of the Market are treated 
like some fashion of God-given axiom. I mean, I didn't read it written 
anywhere. What does Nature care about markets? Did it work in the past? 
Will it still work in the future? Is past performance indicative of 
future results?

It's all very complicated. Who can say.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#447455

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-02-12 15:47 -0500
Message-ID<OR3oA.41363$1w1.854@fx35.iad>
In reply to#447454
On 02/12/2017 03:44 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 02/12/2017 03:32 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
>> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
>>>>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most
>>>>>>> experts
>>>>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the
>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
>>>>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
>>>>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get
>>>>>> away with
>>>>>> their old nonsense again and again and again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kinda like climatologists.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
>>>> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
>>>> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
>>>
>>> Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me
>>> completely by surprise.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
>> the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
>> terrible, things are wild outliers.
>
> From the summary it does seem like the kind of book climate change
> "skeptics" would glom onto. "It's all too complicated! We just can't
> predict anything. Stuff just happens. Experts don't know what they're
> talking about."
>
> Meanwhile the virtues of the Invisible Hand of the Market are treated
> like some fashion of God-given axiom. I mean, I didn't read it written
> anywhere. What does Nature care about markets? Did it work in the past?
> Will it still work in the future? Is past performance indicative of
> future results?
>
> It's all very complicated. Who can say.
>
>

If neoliberal economists could ever present as much evidence that the 
"invisible hand" operates the way they say it does as there is for the 
impact of greenhouse gases, the entire world would hire Alan Greenspan 
as their economic adviser tomorrow.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#447456

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-12 13:11 -0800
Message-ID<5dj1ac12b53pbmtja94a2ecas8ah1nabh6@4ax.com>
In reply to#447455
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:47:42 -0500, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 02/12/2017 03:44 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 02/12/2017 03:32 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
>>> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>>>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
>>>>>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most
>>>>>>>> experts
>>>>>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the
>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
>>>>>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
>>>>>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get
>>>>>>> away with
>>>>>>> their old nonsense again and again and again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kinda like climatologists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
>>>>> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
>>>>> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me
>>>> completely by surprise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
>>> the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
>>> terrible, things are wild outliers.
>>
>> From the summary it does seem like the kind of book climate change
>> "skeptics" would glom onto. "It's all too complicated! We just can't
>> predict anything. Stuff just happens. Experts don't know what they're
>> talking about."
>>
>> Meanwhile the virtues of the Invisible Hand of the Market are treated
>> like some fashion of God-given axiom. I mean, I didn't read it written
>> anywhere. What does Nature care about markets? Did it work in the past?
>> Will it still work in the future? Is past performance indicative of
>> future results?
>>
>> It's all very complicated. Who can say.
>>
>>
>
>If neoliberal economists could ever present as much evidence that the 
>"invisible hand" operates the way they say it does as there is for the 
>impact of greenhouse gases, the entire world would hire Alan Greenspan 
>as their economic adviser tomorrow.

Some chaotic systems are beyond our influence, so we can just observe
them and be surprised by what happens. But economic and social systems
are driven by our group expectations, so we *are* the chaos.

That's why we keep having booms and busts and silly dance moves and
diets. People might observe gradients, on the theory that nature
eventually exploits available energy sources, so some Black Swan
events - but not their specific triggers - can be roughly predicted.

That's my idea, not his. But I haven't finished the book.

The invisible hand works in microeconomics, but few economists are
interested in microeconomics. The big fame and money are in macro.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#447458

Frombitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>
Date2017-02-12 16:34 -0500
Message-ID<gx4oA.16498$Le.14386@fx02.iad>
In reply to#447456
On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:47:42 -0500, bitrex
> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On 02/12/2017 03:44 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 02/12/2017 03:32 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
>>>> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
>>>>>>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most
>>>>>>>>> experts
>>>>>>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the
>>>>>>>>> average
>>>>>>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
>>>>>>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
>>>>>>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get
>>>>>>>> away with
>>>>>>>> their old nonsense again and again and again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kinda like climatologists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
>>>>>> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
>>>>>> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me
>>>>> completely by surprise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
>>>> the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
>>>> terrible, things are wild outliers.
>>>
>>> From the summary it does seem like the kind of book climate change
>>> "skeptics" would glom onto. "It's all too complicated! We just can't
>>> predict anything. Stuff just happens. Experts don't know what they're
>>> talking about."
>>>
>>> Meanwhile the virtues of the Invisible Hand of the Market are treated
>>> like some fashion of God-given axiom. I mean, I didn't read it written
>>> anywhere. What does Nature care about markets? Did it work in the past?
>>> Will it still work in the future? Is past performance indicative of
>>> future results?
>>>
>>> It's all very complicated. Who can say.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If neoliberal economists could ever present as much evidence that the
>> "invisible hand" operates the way they say it does as there is for the
>> impact of greenhouse gases, the entire world would hire Alan Greenspan
>> as their economic adviser tomorrow.
>
> Some chaotic systems are beyond our influence, so we can just observe
> them and be surprised by what happens. But economic and social systems
> are driven by our group expectations, so we *are* the chaos.
>
> That's why we keep having booms and busts and silly dance moves and
> diets. People might observe gradients, on the theory that nature
> eventually exploits available energy sources, so some Black Swan
> events - but not their specific triggers - can be roughly predicted.

I can't say about booms and busts, but when it comes to fad diets and 
silly dance moves I think part of it is just that people need something 
to do. Fad diets might give you the feeling that you are doing something 
to (hopefully) improve your health, when the reality is that so many 
factors are completely out of your control.

I think humans have a problem with routine and sameness, and that 
there's a natural tendency to feel when things are just going along, 
maybe not wonderful, but certainly not bad, that this is an indicator 
that SOMETHING is wrong or going to be wrong soon, and that something 
has to change, even trying to effect things that are finally beyond 
one's control. "We want change! We don't know what we want to change, 
but we definitely want it!"

The unfortunate irony is that three of the biggest things I consider to 
be the greatest threats to humanity's long term survival - nuclear 
proliferation, comets and asteroids, and CO2 emissions, are at this 
point in our technological evolution 100% under our control.

In the grand scheme of things making ourselves safe from them wouldn't 
even require that much sacrifice.

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#447497

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 17:10 -0800
Message-ID<faab2048-7cb3-44a6-a72a-4564d1fa3256@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447454
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 7:44:11 AM UTC+11, bitrex wrote:
> On 02/12/2017 03:32 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
> > <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> >>>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
> >>>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most experts
> >>>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the average
> >>>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
> >>>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
> >>>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is they
> >>>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get away 
> >>>>> with their old nonsense again and again and again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kinda like climatologists.

Not exactly, though there is a lively market for misleading nonsense in both fields. The fossil fuel extraction industry can make money out of lying about climate science, and cashed up capitalists can make money out of economists whose lies bring on depressions. 

> >>> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
> >>> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
> >>> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
> >>
> >> Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me
> >> completely by surprise.
> >
> > The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
> > the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
> > terrible, things are wild outliers.
> 
>  From the summary it does seem like the kind of book climate change 
> "skeptics" would glom onto. "It's all too complicated! We just can't 
> predict anything. Stuff just happens. Experts don't know what they're 
> talking about."

Nassim Nicholas Taleb doesn't regard Black Swans as completely unpredictable, and boasts about making money by getting good odds on events that ended up happening often enough to make him money, even though the quants hadn't expected them.
 
> Meanwhile the virtues of the Invisible Hand of the Market are treated 
> like some fashion of God-given axiom. I mean, I didn't read it written 
> anywhere. What does Nature care about markets? Did it work in the past? 
> Will it still work in the future? Is past performance indicative of 
> future results?

Adam Smith was less confident about the Invisible Hand of the Market than most of his followers. He saw the need for anti-trust legislation quite a bit earlier than 1895 - he died in 1790.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/420123-people-of-the-same-trade-seldom-meet-together-even-for
 
> It's all very complicated. Who can say.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb says quite a bit more than John Larkin seems able to understand.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Syndey

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#447495

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 16:57 -0800
Message-ID<aa3565eb-69a8-4d1b-a0cc-ffe16bf5f2e1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447452
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 7:32:12 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:11:54 -0500, bitrex
> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
> >On 02/11/2017 08:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 18:54:01 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:59:56 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> >>> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
> >>>>> fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most experts
> >>>>> are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the average
> >>>>> truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
> >>>>
> >>>> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate
> >>>> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong,
> >>>> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is they
> >>>> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get away with
> >>>> their old nonsense again and again and again.
> >>>
> >>> Kinda like climatologists.
> >>
> >> Yes. Nonlinear, chaotic systems can't be predicted. Chaos can be
> >> overall, like in high turbulent fluid flow, but it can also manifest
> >> as quiet stretches with occasional extreme events.
> >
> >Yeah I had no idea it was going to snow all this weekend, it took me 
> >completely by surprise.
> 
> The Black Swan guy has mostly contempt for Gaussian distributions, and
> the quants who rely on same to predict stuff. All the fun, and
> terrible, things are wild outliers.

I don't think that Nassim Nicholas Taleb has any kind of contempt for Gaussian distributions. He is contemptuous of people who think that only one process is in operation in any one context.

When I had a slipped disk - many years ago - it took six weeks of bed rest to get it right, which was longer than usual, and I said to my doctor "Am I the tail of the Gaussian distribution, or part of some other distribution?".

The point about Black Swans is that many of them are caused by different kinds of processes than are visible in day-to-day fluctuations. Unimaginative quants think that what happens every day is the only thing that is happening and get a terrible shock when the GFC hits the fan. People panicking and running around like headless chickens is not business as usual.
> 
> I had no idea we'd see the sun this weekend! Gives me another shot at
> fixing that leak. I just patched a hole in the side of the house with
> copperclad FR4.

Copper sheathing is popular for expensive buildings. A 35 micron layer (one ounce copper) isn't all that thick. Cooper corrodes at the rate of 2 micron a year in rural atmosphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_in_architecture

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney 

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#447345

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-11 16:58 -0800
Message-ID<3958d2e2-9743-4264-bbc2-031d9e7ecec5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447323
On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:01:48 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:59:57 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
> 
> > and, he notes modestly, my general theory that, except in the rare
> > fields of study that are subject to proof by experiment, most experts
> > are usually wrong, and most experts are even wronger than the average
> > truck driver, and more expertise makes them yet wronger.
> 
> For sure economists are notorious for making totally inaccurate 
> predictions; financial pundits in general are, in fact usually wrong, 
> especially the further out they're attempting to see. The joke is they 
> have the chutzpah to assume no one will notice and they can get away with 
> their old nonsense again and again and again.

Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that there are lot of different financial experts making lots of different predictions. Obviously, some of them are always wrong some of the time.

As a Mail reader, Cursitor Doom won't have had the pleasure of reading Will Hutton in the Guardian in the 1980's, where Thatcher's tame monetarists in the Treasury kept on making predictions that looked silly to the Keynesians at Oxbridge, and Hutton had fun contrasting the Treasury predictions with the Keynesian forecasts, and even more fun writing an "I told you so piece" six months later.

The real problem with economics is that the fats cats thrive on boom and bust, and love economists who claim that this is natural and unavoidable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447407

FromCursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>
Date2017-02-12 15:36 +0000
Message-ID<o7pvel$1r7$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#447345
On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:58:21 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:

> Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that there are lot of different financial
> experts making lots of different predictions. Obviously, some of them
> are always wrong some of the time.

It wouldn't be that bad, but for the fact that so many of the "Ken Rogoff 
level" forecasters are totally beholden to the likes of George Soros and 
will simply spout whatever rubbish they're paid (very well indeed) to 
spout. Prime recent examples being the dire consequences of a Brexit vote 
that never came to fruition and the equally dire consequences of electing 
Trump in the US. In both cases we were warned massive world-wide 
recession would result within days or weeks; some even predicted nuclear 
Armageddon. Of course it was all garbage intended to frighten voters into 
compliance with the wouldbe world controllers.

> As a Mail reader, Cursitor Doom won't have had the pleasure of reading
> Will Hutton in the Guardian in the 1980's, where Thatcher's tame
> monetarists in the Treasury kept on making predictions that looked silly
> to the Keynesians at Oxbridge, and Hutton had fun contrasting the
> Treasury predictions with the Keynesian forecasts, and even more fun
> writing an "I told you so piece" six months later.

I don't read either of these worthless rags, you idiot. I used to take 
the FT only for years and years and years until it went downhill a while 
back and now I read *nothing* from the MSM at all. I consider myself very 
much better informed as a result.

> The real problem with economics is that the fats cats thrive on boom and
> bust, and love economists who claim that this is natural and
> unavoidable.

That much at least is true. 
My news client has taken you out of my KF on the basis that it thinks you 
are now rehabilitated and should be given another chance. I've seen very 
little here that causes me to agree with that.

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#447417

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-12 08:36 -0800
Message-ID<td31acl4cn2na9oblf1pv4uim669ijuvgv@4ax.com>
In reply to#447407
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:36:53 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:58:21 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:
>
>> Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that there are lot of different financial
>> experts making lots of different predictions. Obviously, some of them
>> are always wrong some of the time.
>
>It wouldn't be that bad, but for the fact that so many of the "Ken Rogoff 
>level" forecasters are totally beholden to the likes of George Soros and 
>will simply spout whatever rubbish they're paid (very well indeed) to 
>spout. Prime recent examples being the dire consequences of a Brexit vote 
>that never came to fruition and the equally dire consequences of electing 
>Trump in the US. In both cases we were warned massive world-wide 
>recession would result within days or weeks; some even predicted nuclear 
>Armageddon. Of course it was all garbage intended to frighten voters into 
>compliance with the wouldbe world controllers.
>
>> As a Mail reader, Cursitor Doom won't have had the pleasure of reading
>> Will Hutton in the Guardian in the 1980's, where Thatcher's tame
>> monetarists in the Treasury kept on making predictions that looked silly
>> to the Keynesians at Oxbridge, and Hutton had fun contrasting the
>> Treasury predictions with the Keynesian forecasts, and even more fun
>> writing an "I told you so piece" six months later.
>
>I don't read either of these worthless rags, you idiot. I used to take 
>the FT only for years and years and years until it went downhill a while 
>back and now I read *nothing* from the MSM at all. I consider myself very 
>much better informed as a result.

That is one, of very many, points that Taleb makes in his book:
reading newspapers can make you less informed. Today's San Francisco
Chronicle is atrocious.

>
>> The real problem with economics is that the fats cats thrive on boom and
>> bust, and love economists who claim that this is natural and
>> unavoidable.
>
>That much at least is true. 
>My news client has taken you out of my KF on the basis that it thinks you 
>are now rehabilitated and should be given another chance. I've seen very 
>little here that causes me to agree with that.

Sloman is increasingly ossified in his ritual third-person insult
mode, with rare but repeated references to unsuccessful 1970's
electronic designs. Refresh that killfile entry.



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#447444

FromCursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>
Date2017-02-12 19:44 +0000
Message-ID<o7qduo$tmj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#447417
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:36:25 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

> That is one, of very many, points that Taleb makes in his book: reading
> newspapers can make you less informed. Today's San Francisco Chronicle
> is atrocious.

Likewise with the (London) Times and the Wall Street Journal. Wonderfully 
informative, impartial and serious newspapers deserving of great respect 
and authority - until Murdoch got hold of them, that is. There doesn't 
seem to be anything he won't turn into a populist, lower-class mouthpiece 
for himself and his business interests.

> Sloman is increasingly ossified in his ritual third-person insult mode,
> with rare but repeated references to unsuccessful 1970's electronic
> designs. Refresh that killfile entry.

Wise counsel I'm sure. But just out of curiosity as to how long it will 
take, I'm going to wait until he writes something outrageously 
unpalatable. I'm guessing I won't have to wait very long. At all.

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#447453

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-12 12:38 -0800
Message-ID<ekh1ac59vnkus33qv9muu8s5nego79avrv@4ax.com>
In reply to#447444
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:36:25 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> That is one, of very many, points that Taleb makes in his book: reading
>> newspapers can make you less informed. Today's San Francisco Chronicle
>> is atrocious.
>
>Likewise with the (London) Times and the Wall Street Journal. Wonderfully 
>informative, impartial and serious newspapers deserving of great respect 
>and authority - until Murdoch got hold of them, that is. There doesn't 
>seem to be anything he won't turn into a populist, lower-class mouthpiece 
>for himself and his business interests.

It's not just Murdoch papers that have gone off the journalism rails.
The big-city papers, the NY Times and LA Times and Wash Post, are all
Trump, all the time, every section, just rants and insults and
shrieking. Robert Reich used to be a loony leftist, but now he's a
nasty ranter who makes no sense.

Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together
killed it.

>
>> Sloman is increasingly ossified in his ritual third-person insult mode,
>> with rare but repeated references to unsuccessful 1970's electronic
>> designs. Refresh that killfile entry.
>
>Wise counsel I'm sure. But just out of curiosity as to how long it will 
>take, I'm going to wait until he writes something outrageously 
>unpalatable. I'm guessing I won't have to wait very long. At all.

No, he is too dull to be properly outrageous, and he hasn't done
anything new in a decade or so. He just drones on.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#447479

FromJulian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com>
Date2017-02-12 23:43 +0000
Message-ID<o7qrv1$gok$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#447453
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:38:55 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

> Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together killed
> it.

We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley 
in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them theyve 
done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.

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#447489

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-02-12 19:24 -0500
Message-ID<r2v1ac56355e8cri2el64hp9ultjqrf6sv@4ax.com>
In reply to#447479
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:43:29 -0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
<jb9889@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:38:55 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together killed
>> it.
>
>We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley 
>in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them theyve 
>done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.

If you think they're the only two, your education is sorely lacking.
The whole lot needs nuking (a good start would be to eliminate public
funding).

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#447494

FromJulian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com>
Date2017-02-13 00:53 +0000
Message-ID<o7r01f$gok$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#447489
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:24:09 -0500, krw wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:43:29 -0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
> <jb9889@notformail.com> wrote:

>>We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley
>>in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them theyve
>>done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.
> 
> If you think they're the only two, your education is sorely lacking. The
> whole lot needs nuking (a good start would be to eliminate public
> funding).

If you think I wrote above there are only two, *your* education is sorely 
lacking my friend.

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#447498

Fromkrw@notreal.com
Date2017-02-12 20:18 -0500
Message-ID<5b22ac9006t867iiviln4q7vriuf1a7dfv@4ax.com>
In reply to#447494
On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:53:03 -0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
<jb9889@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:24:09 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:43:29 -0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
>> <jb9889@notformail.com> wrote:
>
>>>We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley
>>>in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them theyve
>>>done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.
>> 
>> If you think they're the only two, your education is sorely lacking. The
>> whole lot needs nuking (a good start would be to eliminate public
>> funding).
>
>If you think I wrote above there are only two, *your* education is sorely 
>lacking my friend.

Then why did you say there are two?

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#447500

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-12 17:27 -0800
Message-ID<on22ac135n466ebq2gd4ujfg6beaoacmnq@4ax.com>
In reply to#447479
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 23:43:29 -0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
<jb9889@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:38:55 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together killed
>> it.
>
>We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley 
>in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them theyve 
>done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.

Oh, leave them alone. It makes it easier for me to sort out intern and
engineer applications; I'll get my people from among the College
Republicans, the ones that can think.

 
-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

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#447508

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 18:28 -0800
Message-ID<326d72be-2258-4ece-9b03-a13a00423cd8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447479
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 10:45:21 AM UTC+11, Julian Barnes wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:38:55 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
> 
> > Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together killed
> > it.
> 
> We got two principal epicenters of Commie indoctrination here - Berkley 
> in the West and Columbia in the East. Between the pair of them they've 
> done a lot of damage. Both need nuking.

Clearly not enough damage. Julian Barnes hasn't been nuked yet.

Although he's more creative fiction than journalism.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447507

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 18:26 -0800
Message-ID<7dcc1e6d-97bc-4f49-9427-49455fd0d3a6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447453
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 7:39:06 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:44:24 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:36:25 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> >> That is one, of very many, points that Taleb makes in his book: reading
> >> newspapers can make you less informed. Today's San Francisco Chronicle
> >> is atrocious.
> >
> >Likewise with the (London) Times and the Wall Street Journal. Wonderfully 
> >informative, impartial and serious newspapers deserving of great respect 
> >and authority - until Murdoch got hold of them, that is. There doesn't 
> >seem to be anything he won't turn into a populist, lower-class mouthpiece 
> >for himself and his business interests.
> 
> It's not just Murdoch papers that have gone off the journalism rails.
> The big-city papers, the NY Times and LA Times and Wash Post, are all
> Trump, all the time, every section, just rants and insults and
> shrieking. Robert Reich used to be a loony leftist, but now he's a
> nasty ranter who makes no sense.
> 
> Hey, journalism is dead. Lefty colleges and the Internet together
> killed it.

It's not dead, but the classified advertisements that paid for high quality journalism have migrated to the web, and journalism has become rather like piano-playing - if you are good enough to make into the top 150 with international name recognition you can make real money at it, and everybody else has to find a day job.

The New Yorker cost enough and sells well enough that it can support amazingly good journalism (but there's not enough of that to fill every issue).

<snipped ossified insult>

> >Wise counsel I'm sure. But just out of curiosity as to how long it will 
> >take, I'm going to wait until he writes something outrageously 
> >unpalatable. I'm guessing I won't have to wait very long. At all.
> 
> No, he is too dull to be properly outrageous, and he hasn't done
> anything new in a decade or so. He just drones on.

John Larkin lacks the wit to recognise novelty. He certainly seems to lack the wit to recognise what Nassim Nicholas Taleb is actually saying in "The Black Swan".

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447509

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 18:29 -0800
Message-ID<bf8cb619-bd4d-4151-af42-5416f3683af1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447417
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 3:36:33 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 15:36:53 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
> <curd@notformail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:58:21 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:
> >
> >> Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that there are lot of different financial
> >> experts making lots of different predictions. Obviously, some of them
> >> are always wrong some of the time.
> >
> >It wouldn't be that bad, but for the fact that so many of the "Ken Rogoff 
> >level" forecasters are totally beholden to the likes of George Soros and 
> >will simply spout whatever rubbish they're paid (very well indeed) to 
> >spout. Prime recent examples being the dire consequences of a Brexit vote 
> >that never came to fruition and the equally dire consequences of electing 
> >Trump in the US. In both cases we were warned massive world-wide 
> >recession would result within days or weeks; some even predicted nuclear 
> >Armageddon. Of course it was all garbage intended to frighten voters into 
> >compliance with the wouldbe world controllers.
> >
> >> As a Mail reader, Cursitor Doom won't have had the pleasure of reading
> >> Will Hutton in the Guardian in the 1980's, where Thatcher's tame
> >> monetarists in the Treasury kept on making predictions that looked silly
> >> to the Keynesians at Oxbridge, and Hutton had fun contrasting the
> >> Treasury predictions with the Keynesian forecasts, and even more fun
> >> writing an "I told you so piece" six months later.
> >
> >I don't read either of these worthless rags, you idiot. I used to take 
> >the FT only for years and years and years until it went downhill a while 
> >back and now I read *nothing* from the MSM at all. I consider myself very 
> >much better informed as a result.
> 
> That is one, of very many, points that Taleb makes in his book:
> reading newspapers can make you less informed. Today's San Francisco
> Chronicle is atrocious.

It's still owned by the Hearst family, rather than Rupert Murdoch. John Larkin has been trained to believe everything he reads in the Murdoch media, and he gags on stuff that doesn't match his regular diet of familiar misinformation.

> >> The real problem with economics is that the fats cats thrive on boom and
> >> bust, and love economists who claim that this is natural and
> >> unavoidable.
> >
> >That much at least is true. 
> >My news client has taken you out of my KF on the basis that it thinks you 
> >are now rehabilitated and should be given another chance. I've seen very 
> >little here that causes me to agree with that.
> 
> Sloman is increasingly ossified in his ritual third-person insult
> mode, with rare but repeated references to unsuccessful 1970's
> electronic designs. 

John Larkin doesn't like being shown up as an ignorant egomaniac.

My only bit of electronic design to make it (17 citations) in the peer-reviewed instrument literature was done in 1993, and got published in 1996. One of the elements of the published circuit was one that I'd thought up around 1975, but never had a chance to put into practice until I could get my hands on programmable logic.

Since it worked when I finally could try it, it probably counts as a successful 1970's design.

>Refresh that killfile entry.

Sure. Cursitor Doom doesn't need to be reminded of John Larkin's pratfalls, amusing as they can be.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#447502

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-12 17:43 -0800
Message-ID<7e2cfd07-1c92-4d9e-8633-e2b8b34d4d86@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#447407
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 2:38:45 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 16:58:21 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:
> 
> > Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that there are lot of different financial
> > experts making lots of different predictions. Obviously, some of them
> > are always wrong some of the time.
> 
> It wouldn't be that bad, but for the fact that so many of the "Ken Rogoff 
> level" forecasters are totally beholden to the likes of George Soros and 
> will simply spout whatever rubbish they're paid (very well indeed) to 
> spout. 

Ken Rogoff is actually a respectable economist and George Soros is fond of economists who talk sense.

The Mail is less than enthusiastic about anybody who isn't a right wing lunatic, and Cursitor Doom shares their delusions.

> Prime recent examples being the dire consequences of a Brexit vote 
> that never came to fruition

They haven't had a chance to. Theresa May has only just got into a position when she can start negotiating the exit, and bring on the dire consequences.

> and the equally dire consequences of electing Trump in the US. 

Trump has already shot himself in the foot with an executive order stopping everybody from seven specific countries from getting into the US even if they had been vetted by getting a visa. Obama had already banned visa waivers for all the countries involved ( and a few more, with which Trump happens to have business dealings). This is such an obvious nonsense that the US courts have been willing to block it.

Trump has already demonstrated that he's a half-wit. The risk the he will do something that is not only spectacularly stupid but also disastrous has not gone away. 

Cursitor Doom lacks the imagination to conjure up a disaster scenario, which is a bit odd, since Trump now controls the US mutually assured destruction mechanism. A man who can believe that he got a bigger crowd for his inauguration than  Obama did can probably believe that the Russians or the Chinese have launched their missiles, even when none of them are showing up on early warning radar.

I'm an optimist, and believe that White House staff has got a team of psychiatrists on tap, so that two area always ready to certify Trump as a lunatic at a moment's notice, as soon as he tries to do anything really silly, but that may be over-optimistic.

> In both cases we were warned massive world-wide 
> recession would result within days or weeks; some even predicted nuclear 
> Armageddon. Of course it was all garbage intended to frighten voters into 
> compliance with the would-be world controllers.

Only in the Mail. Newspapers that cater to saner readers were more circumspect.
 
> > As a Mail reader, Cursitor Doom won't have had the pleasure of reading
> > Will Hutton in the Guardian in the 1980's, where Thatcher's tame
> > monetarists in the Treasury kept on making predictions that looked silly
> > to the Keynesians at Oxbridge, and Hutton had fun contrasting the
> > Treasury predictions with the Keynesian forecasts, and even more fun
> > writing an "I told you so piece" six months later.
> 
> I don't read either of these worthless rags, you idiot.

Cursitor Doom is the kind if idiot who thinks like that.

> I used to take 
> the FT only for years and years and years until it went downhill a while 
> back and now I read *nothing* from the MSM at all. I consider myself very 
> much better informed as a result.

Of course you do. If you considered yourself even marginally better informed you'd have to be persuaded that you weren't Trump, or God or Napoleon, or whoever it is that florid nutters imagine themselves to be these days.
 
> > The real problem with economics is that the fats cats thrive on boom and
> > bust, and love economists who claim that this is natural and
> > unavoidable.
> 
> That much at least is true. 

Cursitor Doom won't swallow the corollary, which is that there are economists around who know what they are talking about, and are helping politicians steer the economy away from both booms and busts.

> My news client has taken you out of my KF on the basis that it thinks you 
> are now rehabilitated and should be given another chance. I've seen very 
> little here that causes me to agree with that.

Of course not. I don't share you fatuous delusions.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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