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Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens

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  Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-10-08 15:40 -0500
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-10-08 13:45 -0700
      Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-10-08 23:52 +0100
      Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-10-08 23:18 +0000
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-10-08 16:34 -0700
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-10-09 13:05 -0700
      Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-10-09 14:00 -0400
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-10-09 19:06 +0000
          Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-10-09 15:47 -0400
          Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens krw@notreal.com - 2017-10-09 21:28 -0400
            Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-10-10 08:00 +0100
              Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens krw@notreal.com - 2017-10-10 21:42 -0400
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-10-09 14:16 -0500
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-10-10 11:07 +0000
          Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens aioe usenet <hirni47@yahoo.com> - 2017-10-12 05:00 +0700
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-10-08 14:17 -0700
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Gerhard Hoffmann <gerhard@hoffmann-hochfrequenz.de> - 2017-10-08 23:26 +0200
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-10-08 17:54 -0400
      Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-10-09 14:17 -0400
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens krw@notreal.com - 2017-10-09 21:35 -0400
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-10-08 15:37 -0700
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-10-08 15:44 -0700
      Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-10-08 16:01 -0700
        Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-10-08 16:45 -0700
          Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-10-08 16:49 -0700
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Joe Chisolm <jchisolm6@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-09 11:41 -0500
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-10-09 14:13 -0500
    Re: Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens speff <spehro@gmail.com> - 2017-10-12 00:32 -0700

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#480846 — Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens

Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the 
Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil 
auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model 
T962).

My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off 
projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in 
SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a 
challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering 
iron steady enough to build the boards.

This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to 
make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards 
with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently 
produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the 
Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well 
enough to make it work.

Hope someone can give good advice

Dave M 

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#480847

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the 
> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil 
> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model 
> T962).
> 
> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off 
> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in 
> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a 
> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering 
> iron steady enough to build the boards.
> 
> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to 
> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards 
> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently 
> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the 
> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well 
> enough to make it work.
> 
> Hope someone can give good advice
> 
> Dave M

I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.

Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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#480868

On 08/10/17 21:45, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>> T962).
>>
>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>
>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>> enough to make it work.
>>
>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>
>> Dave M
>
> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>
> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.

For quick-and-dirty prototypes, I use a saucepan containing
a thin layer of sand as a heat spreader and to control
the heat flow. Contraindicated for PCBs with SMD components
on both sides :)

Works well, and is cheap/fast enough that you can do
experiments to find what works for you, and therefore
what you actually /need/.

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#480871

pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>> T962).
>>
>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>
>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>> enough to make it work.
>>
>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>
>
> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey
> Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>
> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.

Sweet! This means one less footprint in my lab.

The aluminum jig plate seems easy enough to fabricate. Is there any
particular reason that you use aluminum?

My Corning ceramic hot plate comes with a "stir" feature that obviously
isn't necessary for reflow. Other than that it has a power button and
a rheostat with an internal switch with a knob that's labeled from 0 to
10.

So, how do you control your hotplate? Do you use a reflow controller?
Or do you just use a thermometer and "eyeball it" until the paste
reflows?

In regards to the OP's question about the T962 oven, people complain
about its fumes.

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz, KB7RPU

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#480875

Den mandag den 9. oktober 2017 kl. 01.18.28 UTC+2 skrev Don Kuenz:
> pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
> >> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
> >> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
> >> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
> >> T962).
> >>
> >> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
> >> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
> >> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
> >> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
> >> iron steady enough to build the boards.
> >>
> >> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
> >> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
> >> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
> >> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
> >> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
> >> enough to make it work.
> >>
> >> Hope someone can give good advice
> >>
> >
> > I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey
> > Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
> >
> > Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
> 
> Sweet! This means one less footprint in my lab.
> 
> The aluminum jig plate seems easy enough to fabricate. Is there any
> particular reason that you use aluminum?
> 
> My Corning ceramic hot plate comes with a "stir" feature that obviously
> isn't necessary for reflow. Other than that it has a power button and
> a rheostat with an internal switch with a knob that's labeled from 0 to
> 10.

I had to remove the magnet from the hotplate, some components are magnetic, 
it is "rather annoying" to when all the components you have meticulously 
placed starts jumping around on the board

> 
> So, how do you control your hotplate? Do you use a reflow controller?
> Or do you just use a thermometer and "eyeball it" until the paste
> reflows?

I just eyeball it and have a stack of books next to the plate to slide the 
board onto once it has reflowed
 

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#480945

>The aluminum jig plate seems easy enough to fabricate. Is there any 
>particular reason that you use aluminum? 

200 W/m/K and thick sections available for cheap. I bought the piece from McMaster-Carr iirc. 

>My Corning ceramic hot plate comes with a "stir" feature that obviously 
>isn't necessary for reflow. Other than that it has a power button and 
>a rheostat with an internal switch with a knob that's labeled from 0 to 
>10. 

>So, how do you control your hotplate? Do you use a reflow controller? 
>Or do you just use a thermometer and "eyeball it" until the paste 
>reflows? 

I have this really nifty Extech three-channel type K thermocouple thermometer. Beautiful Layout Hunchback and I did some experiments to get the temperature profile right.  

We also use only leaded paste, which is more forgiving. 

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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#480934

On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>> T962).
>>
>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>
>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>> enough to make it work.
>>
>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>
>> Dave M
> 
> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
> 
> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Phil Hobbs
> 

How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about 
physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?

I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time 
to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate 
the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an 
anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a 
part obviously fail because of it

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#480939

On a sunny day (Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:00:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <SOOCB.1038$y63.553@fx14.iad>:

>On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>> T962).
>>>
>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>>
>>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>>> enough to make it work.
>>>
>>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>>
>>> Dave M
>> 
>> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>> 
>> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Phil Hobbs
>> 
>
>How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about 
>physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
>
>I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time 
>to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate 
>the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an 
>anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a 
>part obviously fail because of it

I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..

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#480944

On 10/09/2017 03:06 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:00:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <SOOCB.1038$y63.553@fx14.iad>:
> 
>> On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>>> T962).
>>>>
>>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>>>
>>>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>>>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>>>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>>>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>>>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>>>> enough to make it work.
>>>>
>>>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>>>
>>>> Dave M
>>>
>>> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>>>
>>> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>
>> How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about
>> physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
>>
>> I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time
>> to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate
>> the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an
>> anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a
>> part obviously fail because of it
> 
> I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
> for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..
> 

Well, I can't say I'm shocked!

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#480957

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:00:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <SOOCB.1038$y63.553@fx14.iad>:
>
>>On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>>> T962).
>>>>
>>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>>>
>>>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>>>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>>>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>>>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>>>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>>>> enough to make it work.
>>>>
>>>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>>>
>>>> Dave M
>>> 
>>> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>>> 
>>> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>> 
>>
>>How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about 
>>physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
>>
>>I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time 
>>to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate 
>>the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an 
>>anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a 
>>part obviously fail because of it
>
>I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
>for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..

That's how we replace parts with center pads.  The trick is
controlling the hot air so adjacent parts don't go flying.

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#480973

krw@notreal.com writes:

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:00:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
>><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <SOOCB.1038$y63.553@fx14.iad>:
>>
>>>On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>>>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>>>> T962).
>>>>>
>>>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>>>>
>>>>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>>>>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>>>>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>>>>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>>>>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>>>>> enough to make it work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave M
>>>> 
>>>> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>>>> 
>>>> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> 
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>> 
>>>
>>>How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about 
>>>physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
>>>
>>>I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time 
>>>to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate 
>>>the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an 
>>>anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a 
>>>part obviously fail because of it
>>
>>I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
>>for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..
>
> That's how we replace parts with center pads.  The trick is
> controlling the hot air so adjacent parts don't go flying.

I have done this with a "wall" made from bent copper foil I have around
(for some reason that escapes me).

For ~$2k you can get a rework station complete with these

http://www.jbctools.com/extractors-desoldering-system-product-554-category-9-menu-1.html


-- 

John Devereux

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#481033

On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:00:05 +0100, John Devereux
<john@devereux.me.uk> wrote:

>krw@notreal.com writes:
>
>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:00:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
>>><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote in <SOOCB.1038$y63.553@fx14.iad>:
>>>
>>>>On 10/08/2017 04:45 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 4:41:07 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
>>>>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>>>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>>>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>>>>> T962).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>>>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>>>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>>>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>>>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
>>>>>> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
>>>>>> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
>>>>>> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
>>>>>> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
>>>>>> enough to make it work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope someone can give good advice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave M
>>>>> 
>>>>> I use a piece of half-inch aluminum jig plate on top of an old-timey Corning ceramic hot plate, the kind used in chem labs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Works great and takes up a lot less space than an oven.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about 
>>>>physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
>>>>
>>>>I've used a regular heat gun on a low setting to do "reflow" from time 
>>>>to time in a pinch, moving it around quickly so as not to concentrate 
>>>>the air blast in any one place for too long; it's always a bit of an 
>>>>anxiety-producing experience but as far as I can tell I've never had a 
>>>>part obviously fail because of it
>>>
>>>I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
>>>for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..
>>
>> That's how we replace parts with center pads.  The trick is
>> controlling the hot air so adjacent parts don't go flying.
>
>I have done this with a "wall" made from bent copper foil I have around
>(for some reason that escapes me).

I keep it around, too.  Not sure I could build a dam close enough to
save the parts around the chips, though.
>
>For ~$2k you can get a rework station complete with these
>
>http://www.jbctools.com/extractors-desoldering-system-product-554-category-9-menu-1.html

Haven't seen those.  Maybe I should buy a set.

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#480942

bitrex wrote:


> 
> How hot do you have to get a SOIC generally before worrying about
> physically damaging the package/die/bond wires etc?
> 
For lead-free, I set the peak temp to 247 C.  I have a thermocouple that I 
poke into a through hole in the board, so the controller sets that temp of 
the actual board substrate.

Jon

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#480977

>I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
>for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..

Found it again:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bGb5AOwp44

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#481128

On 10/10/17 18:07, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> I have seen a youtube video of a Chinese workshop that replaced memory chips in iphones
>> for bigger ones with a heat gun... While U wait..
> 
> Found it again:
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bGb5AOwp44
> 

Yes, Shenzhen in China is fantastic for anything electronic. It has been 
my candy store for over 10 years and I still go there at least twice a year.

Coming from Hong Kong it is only ~70 minutes from Kowloon Tong by rail 
to Lowu. If you don´t have a China Visa you can get a port visa on the 
Chinese side at the border crossing to Luohu. It is valid for the 
Shenzhen Economic Zone only and for 3 days.

In Luohu you buy a subway token to Huaquiang North (the 5th stop) in 
Futian district and take any exit that leads to Shennan Blvd North. BINGO!

As you look around you will see the big SEG building. Only the lower 2 
floor of it are interesting. There about 10 huge buildings full of 
electronic components and instruments. Looking north from Shennan Blvd 
they are mostly to the left of Huaquiang Road North. If you only have a 
day or two you will need to prioritize because the area is vast.

There is fairly cheap accommodation on South Huaquiang Road, 10 minutes 
walk.

I am not sure where the shop in the youtube video is. My guess is it´s 
undergrund right next to the subway station. There are a lot of chip 
replacers there.

-------------------------

OT: First time I passed through Louho was in 1984. It was a 6000 people 
village. Now it´s over 6 million and rising quickly. Imagine the 
infrastructure pains: housing, streets, water, electricity, transport, 
schools, hospitals, police, jails etc.

Werner Dahn

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#480854

On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>
wrote:

>My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off 
>projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in 
>SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a 
>challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering 
>iron steady enough to build the boards.

With solder paste, if you misalign the component slightly, when the
solder reflows, it will magically float into the proper position.

>Hope someone can give good advice

If you Google for "toaster oven reflow contoller":
<https://www.google.com/search?q=toaster+oven+reflow+controller>
You'll find a variety of articles on how to modify a toaster oven into
a workable reflow oven.  For example, here's a list of possible kits:
<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/favorite-diy-reflow-toaster-oven-controllers/>
Here's my version which I use mostly to reflow chronically defective
HP Jetdirect network cards:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/BGA%20reflow/index.html>


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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#480857

Am 08.10.2017 um 22:40 schrieb Dave M:
> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
> T962).
> 
> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
> iron steady enough to build the boards.
> 
> This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to
> make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards
> with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently
> produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the
> Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well
> enough to make it work.
> 
> Hope someone can give good advice

I have one of these:

< https://eleshop.eu/vapour-phase-mini-condens-it.html >

Bought it when the manufacturer did not yet have distributors,
at a somewhat smaller price.

Vapor phase is a completely different game.



I'm still trying to recover from the "English manuals" of
< http://www.ebay.de/itm/112168145773?ul_noapp=true >,
which is a Locky_Z curve tracer:

I got some results for JFETs:

Some IF3602 pairs:
< 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/37321004540/in/dateposted-public/ 
 >

Some of the new ones from ON, e.a.:
< 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/36909661793/in/dateposted-public/ 
 >

I had no luck so far with 2N2222. Probably they oscillate happily on the
tracer and need base stoppers.


cheers, Gerhard

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#480858

On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>
wrote:

>Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the 
>Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil 
>auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model 
>T962).

My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that
the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny
pins and solder paste.

I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a
programmable timer.  It works great but it's using hot air to do the
heating.
>
>My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off 
>projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in 
>SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a 
>challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering 
>iron steady enough to build the boards.

The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of
paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the
part or chip in line with the pads.

I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin
spaced ICs.  I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum
paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip.

I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with
a Q-tip.  This removes paste between the pins.  Drop the chip in
place, populate the rest of the board and reflow.  Both my vision and
my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this
is how I compensated.
>
>This model seems to be big enough to handle all the boards that I want to 
>make, so that is a plus.  Just wondering if this model produces good boards 
>with no unsoldered areas, damaged components, etc.  If it can consistently 
>produce good boards, I'll take a chance on one of them.  Reading the 
>Chinglish instructions is scary enough , but maybe I can figure it out well 
>enough to make it work.

That thing is cheap enough that if I didn't already have an oven, I'd
buy one just to test it.  It would hurt only a little to bin it if it
didn't work.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com 
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

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#480936

On 10/08/2017 05:54 PM, Neon John wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>> T962).
> 
> My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that
> the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny
> pins and solder paste.
> 
> I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a
> programmable timer.  It works great but it's using hot air to do the
> heating.
>>
>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
> 
> The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of
> paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the
> part or chip in line with the pads.
> 
> I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin
> spaced ICs.  I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum
> paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip.
> 
> I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with
> a Q-tip.  This removes paste between the pins.  Drop the chip in
> place, populate the rest of the board and reflow.  Both my vision and
> my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this
> is how I compensated.

Technique I've used occasionally that so far has always seemed to work 
pretty good for soldering say 14 or 16 pin SOIC "surfboards":

Use regular soldering iron and thin 60/40 solder to tin the pads. Put 
the IC down using tweezers and "tack" the top left and bottom right to 
the board. Apply pressure on the center of the IC using a jeweler's 
screwdriver with one hand (wear a protective glove!) while blasting the 
pins on one side of the IC with hot air from a lightweight heat gun for 
about 10 seconds, back and forth until you visibly see the solder on the 
pads go shiny. Remove heat and hold for another 15 seconds or so, then 
remove pressure and let cool for about a minute. Then repeat for the 
other side.

Then continuity test from the junction of the pin and the package to the 
hole on the board for the mounting hardware. Meter should beep just from 
light contact without applying any pressure at all from the probe to the 
pin. Sometimes there's one pin that didn't quite get a solid connection 
and won't test for continuity without pushing down a bit, but a single 
pin is easy to touch up by hand.

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#480958

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 14:17:15 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 10/08/2017 05:54 PM, Neon John wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:40:58 -0500, "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Anyone have any experience or have colleagues who have experience using the
>>> Chinese-made reflow soldering ovens such as those being sold on the evil
>>> auction place?  The one I've looked at is item number:262955348183 (Model
>>> T962).
>> 
>> My concern (mainly because I have no experience with infrared) is that
>> the black chips and components would get hot faster than the shiny
>> pins and solder paste.
>> 
>> I have an oven that I built using a tabletop convection oven and a
>> programmable timer.  It works great but it's using hot air to do the
>> heating.
>>>
>>> My eyes have become the major challenge to producing the one- or two-off
>>> projects, since many of the parts that are available today are only made in
>>> SMD packages.   I realize that placing them onto the board still remains a
>>> challenge, but at least with a proper oven, I won't have to hold a soldering
>>> iron steady enough to build the boards.
>> 
>> The neat thing about reflow is that if you put the proper amount of
>> paste on each pad, the surface tension of the solder will pull the
>> part or chip in line with the pads.
>> 
>> I've developed an unconventional technique for pasting 0.5 mm pin
>> spaced ICs.  I put the chip on its back and use my pressure/vacuum
>> paste dispenser to lay a solid stream across each side of the chip.
>> 
>> I then hold the chip with some pliers while I wipe the other side with
>> a Q-tip.  This removes paste between the pins.  Drop the chip in
>> place, populate the rest of the board and reflow.  Both my vision and
>> my steadiness of hand have declined over the past few years and this
>> is how I compensated.
>
>Technique I've used occasionally that so far has always seemed to work 
>pretty good for soldering say 14 or 16 pin SOIC "surfboards":

SOICs are a piece of cake.  They're *huge*.

>Use regular soldering iron and thin 60/40 solder to tin the pads. Put 
>the IC down using tweezers and "tack" the top left and bottom right to 
>the board. Apply pressure on the center of the IC using a jeweler's 
>screwdriver with one hand (wear a protective glove!) while blasting the 
>pins on one side of the IC with hot air from a lightweight heat gun for 
>about 10 seconds, back and forth until you visibly see the solder on the 
>pads go shiny. Remove heat and hold for another 15 seconds or so, then 
>remove pressure and let cool for about a minute. Then repeat for the 
>other side.

Remove all solder from all of the pins except one, then tack that pin
down and position the part.  Go around and solder the rest.  Yes, I
always use leaded solder (being careful to remove all of the socialist
solder from all pads).
 
>Then continuity test from the junction of the pin and the package to the 
>hole on the board for the mounting hardware. Meter should beep just from 
>light contact without applying any pressure at all from the probe to the 
>pin. Sometimes there's one pin that didn't quite get a solid connection 
>and won't test for continuity without pushing down a bit, but a single 
>pin is easy to touch up by hand.

Your soldering technique needs work if you have to test continuity.

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