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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #452905 > unrolled thread
| Started by | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400 |
| Articles | 13 on this page of 113 — 24 participants |
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big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700
Re: big drives bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-21 13:47 -0400
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:42 -0700
Re: big drives dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:55 -0700
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 13:37 -0700
Re: big drives bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-21 21:51 -0700
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 07:26 -0700
Re: big drives Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-03-22 03:38 -0700
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 14:23 +0000
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-22 16:43 +0100
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 18:35 +0000
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-23 10:24 +0100
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 16:11 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:05 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 17:39 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 21:05 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 03:01 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:09 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 04:15 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:34 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 12:25 -0700
Re: big drives dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-03-22 13:57 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:03 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:29 -0400
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-22 04:36 -0700
Re: big drives Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-03-22 08:57 -0400
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-22 11:59 -0400
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:38 -0500
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:31 -0400
Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 20:59 -0500
Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 21:00 -0500
Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:21 -0800
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 07:51 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:19 -0800
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:26 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:38 -0700
Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:37 -0500
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:07 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:45 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 23:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:06 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 16:56 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:35 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:47 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:19 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:50 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 17:58 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:00 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 22:50 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 08:27 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 12:25 -0700
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:31 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 06:38 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:41 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:38 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:55 -0700
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 17:14 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:41 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 18:00 -0700
Re: big drives Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-23 09:35 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:18 -0700
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-23 18:29 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:54 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:16 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 19:28 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:55 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:04 -0400
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 22:00 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:46 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:38 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 22:22 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 23:08 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 00:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 09:00 -0700
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:14 +0100
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 09:19 -0700
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:47 +0100
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:01 -0700
Re: big drives Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-24 20:30 +0000
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:55 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-25 04:00 -0400
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 22:18 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:15 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:21 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-25 07:54 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 10:53 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-25 23:11 +0200
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:14 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-26 12:18 +0300
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 03:33 -0700
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:36 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-26 14:13 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 21:04 +0200
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 19:03 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:53 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:12 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:43 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 23:23 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 22:25 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:23 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 19:36 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 10:14 +0200
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 01:31 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 16:21 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400
Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 08:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <isfadclk210545e7octj80hjbj0s8ilhcm@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453340 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >> >> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. > >It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >still a student. I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a fast paper tape reader! I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a 400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch runs. IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but that was out of our league. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 12:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob3qth$5ti$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453405 |
On 3/24/2017 8:53 AM, John Larkin wrote: > On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>> >>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >> >> It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >> still a student. > > I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a > fast paper tape reader! You've got me beat by ~5 years -- but at a cost of $12K! :> > I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a > 400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. > > It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to > punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch > runs. I scrapped the 8i early on as it was really a dog slow machine. Instead, wirewrapped a small 8085 system and wrote a monitor/debugger so I could "patch" the memory image. With 16K of RAM available and a more modern programmer's model, it was really a very effective little box! I'd use the development system at work/school to assemble my code. Then, print hardcopy listings and type the opcodes into a monitor. You learned how to make really lean solutions! :> [But, it beat bit-switching code into core using a bunch of paddles on a front panel!] > IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but > that was out of our league. IBM differed from DEC in terms of price and service. If you wanted "cheap", "use at your own risk", you went with DEC. In my case, I had friends in Maynard that would route surplus kit to me. I might have to fix a bad module (flip chip) or hack together some part that was missing. But, the resulting machine was pretty much the same as if "bought new" (despite the obvious wear and tear). [We had a gentleman's agreement that I wouldn't sell anything that I'd obtained in this manner. Either return it to them for disposition or discard it myself.]
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <i53bdc1u1pr8fd35pni17000kva0jh3a92@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453430 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:12:27 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >On 3/24/2017 8:53 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y >> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>>> >>>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >>> >>> It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >>> still a student. >> >> I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a >> fast paper tape reader! > >You've got me beat by ~5 years -- but at a cost of $12K! :> > >> I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a >> 400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. >> >> It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to >> punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch >> runs. > >I scrapped the 8i early on as it was really a dog slow machine. Instead, >wirewrapped a small 8085 system and wrote a monitor/debugger so I could >"patch" the memory image. With 16K of RAM available and a more modern >programmer's model, it was really a very effective little box! > >I'd use the development system at work/school to assemble my code. Then, >print hardcopy listings and type the opcodes into a monitor. You learned >how to make really lean solutions! :> > >[But, it beat bit-switching code into core using a bunch of paddles >on a front panel!] > >> IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >> that was out of our league. > >IBM differed from DEC in terms of price and service. If you wanted "cheap", >"use at your own risk", you went with DEC. > >In my case, I had friends in Maynard that would route surplus kit to me. >I might have to fix a bad module (flip chip) or hack together some part >that was missing. But, the resulting machine was pretty much the same >as if "bought new" (despite the obvious wear and tear). I visited the old mill once. I met Rick Merrill, who gave me a paper listing of the FOCAL interpreter for PDP-11. We keypunched that and made our own variations. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 22:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <o7mbdcpc9s8si1bnla4ih7pveuvjbqcrbk@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453405 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:53:08 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y ><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >>On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>> >>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >> >>It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >>still a student. > >I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a >fast paper tape reader! > >I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a >400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. > >It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to >punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch >runs. > >IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >that was out of our league. The 1620 was known as the "CADET" (Can't Add, Didn't Even Try). It used lookup tables for arithmetic. https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FIBM_1620_Model_1.jpg&sp=1b84a66872dbb3aaca1cba606ec6909b
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 20:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1nnbdchnov5fqt9p516hfoj4npdnos2btl@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453500 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:43:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:53:08 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y >><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> >>>On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>>> >>>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >>> >>>It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >>>still a student. >> >>I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a >>fast paper tape reader! >> >>I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a >>400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. >> >>It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to >>punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch >>runs. >> >>IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >>that was out of our league. > >The 1620 was known as the "CADET" (Can't Add, Didn't Even Try). It >used lookup tables for arithmetic. > >https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FIBM_1620_Model_1.jpg&sp=1b84a66872dbb3aaca1cba606ec6909b I have a cool book, IBM's Early Computers. They thought for a long time that they were in the adding machine business, and many of their CPUs were pretty much that. Ugly stuff. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 23:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <gkobdch74srr4i7k7otrf90pcaembjvq9a@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453505 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:10:21 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:43:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:53:08 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y >>><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>>On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>>>> >>>>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>>>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>>>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >>>> >>>>It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >>>>still a student. >>> >>>I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a >>>fast paper tape reader! >>> >>>I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a >>>400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. >>> >>>It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to >>>punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch >>>runs. >>> >>>IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >>>that was out of our league. >> >>The 1620 was known as the "CADET" (Can't Add, Didn't Even Try). It >>used lookup tables for arithmetic. >> >>https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FIBM_1620_Model_1.jpg&sp=1b84a66872dbb3aaca1cba606ec6909b > >I have a cool book, IBM's Early Computers. They thought for a long >time that they were in the adding machine business, and many of their >CPUs were pretty much that. Ugly stuff. DEC pink wasn't exactly pretty.
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 22:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <pmvbdc9n85ciio9e7cvl79tv71ems5mu7k@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453507 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 23:23:14 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:10:21 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:43:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:53:08 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:22:42 -0700, Don Y >>>><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> RS08 with an RF08 controller. >>>>>> >>>>>> I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's >>>>>> long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like >>>>>> that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. >>>>> >>>>>It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while >>>>>still a student. >>>> >>>>I got a new 8I with teletype, about 1969. It cost $12K. I soon added a >>>>fast paper tape reader! >>>> >>>>I did a lot of good, very profitable, stuff with it. Built a >>>>400-person company, in fact. I programmed mostly in Focal. >>>> >>>>It was awful, but it worked. Our only other option would have been to >>>>punch cards in FORTRAN and trek to a university to do overnight batch >>>>runs. >>>> >>>>IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >>>>that was out of our league. >>> >>>The 1620 was known as the "CADET" (Can't Add, Didn't Even Try). It >>>used lookup tables for arithmetic. >>> >>>https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FIBM_1620_Model_1.jpg&sp=1b84a66872dbb3aaca1cba606ec6909b >> >>I have a cool book, IBM's Early Computers. They thought for a long >>time that they were in the adding machine business, and many of their >>CPUs were pretty much that. Ugly stuff. > >DEC pink wasn't exactly pretty. Maroons and beige. Not bad. http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/Images/11_70.jpeg -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-25 13:23 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ob5jqs$s0q$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453500 |
On 25.3.17 04:43, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> IBM had a small computer (the size of a desk), 1620 or something, but >> that was out of our league. > > The 1620 was known as the "CADET" (Can't Add, Didn't Even Try). It > used lookup tables for arithmetic. > > https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe9%2FIBM_1620_Model_1.jpg&sp=1b84a66872dbb3aaca1cba606ec6909b > But it had plenty of blinking lights and a big switch to select where to blink them from. Been there - used that, my first computer, in 1964. -- -TV
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 19:36 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ic19dcljlsdosk0j3sividrrb4m1e9h3ep@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453303 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 18:29:46 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >On 03/23/2017 07:18 PM, Don Y wrote: >> On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >>>> junk. >>>> >>>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. >>> >>> Don't you mean a floppy drive? >> >> My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). >> The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. >> The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were >> 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access >> delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate >> head; no need to MOVE the heads!) >> >> The controller weighed a bit less (though both units had to typically >> be mounted in a "rack" so you're looking at probably 500 pounds to have >> *a* disk spinning (though the controller could handle a total of >> four such disks -- a whopping million words of storage!) You'd need >> a *second* rack to install drives 3 and 4. >> >> The medium was "word accessible". So, you'd specify which word you >> wanted to start with and how many words following it in which you were >> interested. Data rate was something like 60KHz (that's K for KILO). >> >> To power a controller and 4 attached drives, you'd need a 20A branch >> circuit >> AND would have to sequence the startup (spinup) commands for the individual >> drives lest you blow that breaker (I think each drive required ~500W). > > >I call BS. > >What system was that, and when, exactly? The original hard drive was >the IBM RAMAC, demonstrated in 1956, which had a capacity of 5 million >characters. Was yours built in somebody's garage, maybe? > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs My PDP-11 had a fixed-head drive like the one described. 256K bytes. Big synchronous motor spinning a giant platter. Ran the RSTS timeshare system, with DECtapes, roughly 1970. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | upsidedown@downunder.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 10:14 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <s1l9dcdfp3uc4rnfdu8bt7g64r70ff0ggo@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453273 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:18:12 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >> John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >>> junk. >>> >>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. >> >> Don't you mean a floppy drive? > >My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). >The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. >The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were >16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access >delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate >head; no need to MOVE the heads!) With multiple heads on a single surface sounds like a "cache" disk in which you stored frequently used files (such as program or parameter files) while the actual bulk (application) data was stored on disks with much greater capacity. I have used some single platter 14" removable disks with about 1 MB capacity, but they were only a few kilograms.
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 01:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob2lb8$3a5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453354 |
On 3/24/2017 1:14 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote: > On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:18:12 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >>>> junk. >>>> >>>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. >>> >>> Don't you mean a floppy drive? >> >> My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). >> The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. >> The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were >> 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access >> delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate >> head; no need to MOVE the heads!) > > With multiple heads on a single surface sounds like a "cache" disk in > which you stored frequently used files (such as program or parameter > files) while the actual bulk (application) data was stored on disks > with much greater capacity. No, just old technology. I.e., the head assemblies were large enough to be visible with naked eye. It takes a lot less engineering to make a fixed head drive than to design an actuator to position the movable head assembly (no servos involved). For a fixed head disk, you only worry about rotation delays to access the desired word (the controller had a 20 bit "address register" that allowed you to select the starting address of a 1MW disk subsystem with one word granularity so you could treat it as "slow RAM") And, when you're dealing with a machine that has 4096 words of "memory", 256K words is *huge*! (e.g., the same multiplier applied to a 64K address space would yield 4M addresses -- a fair size for a winchester on something like an early Z80, 10 years later!) > I have used some single platter 14" removable disks with about 1 MB > capacity, but they were only a few kilograms.
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 16:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <oul8dcphqklic840dang73vsdkgocecp0u@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453267 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 18:38:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> >> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >> junk. >> >> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. > > > > Don't you mean a floppy drive? No, I mean a fixed-head 4U rackmount drive, for a PDP-11. It cost about as much as two Chevrolets. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <VpGdnQ6AQoR6i0jFnZ2dnUU7-KnNnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #453275 |
John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 18:38:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of
>>> junk.
>>>
>>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't you mean a floppy drive?
>
> No, I mean a fixed-head 4U rackmount drive, for a PDP-11. It cost
> about as much as two Chevrolets.
I never considered those as real hard drives. More like 'Designed by
Rube Goldberg and built by Lucas' scratchpad memory. I scrapped some of
those drives from bank computers that stored words, so the people could
phone the bank to check their balance, and the computer could 'speak' to
them over a phone line. Some later units had an etched glass disk with
optical audio tracks for better quality. I also worked on the drum
recorders used in telephone exchanges to store and replay weather
reports for airfields. They had multiple heads, so that you didn't have
to wait for it to return to the beginning to deliver the entire message.
The heads were spaced about five seconds apart.
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
They don't get mad.
They don't get even.
They go for over unity! ;-)
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