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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #452905 > unrolled thread
| Started by | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 113 — 24 participants |
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big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700
Re: big drives bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-21 13:47 -0400
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:42 -0700
Re: big drives dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:55 -0700
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 13:37 -0700
Re: big drives bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-21 21:51 -0700
Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 07:26 -0700
Re: big drives Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-03-22 03:38 -0700
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 14:23 +0000
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-22 16:43 +0100
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 18:35 +0000
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-23 10:24 +0100
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 16:11 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:05 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 17:39 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 21:05 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 03:01 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:09 -0400
Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 04:15 +0000
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:34 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 12:25 -0700
Re: big drives dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-03-22 13:57 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:03 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:29 -0400
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-22 04:36 -0700
Re: big drives Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-03-22 08:57 -0400
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-22 11:59 -0400
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:38 -0500
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:31 -0400
Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 20:59 -0500
Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 21:00 -0500
Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:21 -0800
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 07:51 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:19 -0800
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:26 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:38 -0700
Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:37 -0500
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:07 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:45 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 23:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:06 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 16:56 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:35 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:47 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:19 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:50 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 17:58 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:00 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 22:50 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 08:27 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 12:25 -0700
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:31 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 06:38 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:41 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:38 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:55 -0700
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 17:14 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:41 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 18:00 -0700
Re: big drives Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-23 09:35 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:18 -0700
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-23 18:29 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:54 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:16 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 19:28 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:55 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:04 -0400
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 22:00 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:46 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:38 -0400
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 22:22 -0700
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 23:08 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 00:21 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 09:00 -0700
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:14 +0100
Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 09:19 -0700
Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:47 +0100
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:01 -0700
Re: big drives Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-24 20:30 +0000
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:55 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-25 04:00 -0400
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 22:18 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:15 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:21 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-25 07:54 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 10:53 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-25 23:11 +0200
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:14 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-26 12:18 +0300
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 03:33 -0700
Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:36 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-26 14:13 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 21:04 +0200
Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 19:03 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:53 -0700
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:12 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:43 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 -0700
Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 23:23 -0400
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 22:25 -0700
Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:23 +0200
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 19:36 -0700
Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 10:14 +0200
Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 01:31 -0700
Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 16:21 -0700
Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400
Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Next page →
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 17:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <70fbdcd5hpe9a7clhgg8meq9leutbradt8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453474 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:14:02 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: >On Friday, 24 March 2017 18:39:02 UTC, Don Y wrote: > >> The other problem with USB drives is they tend to be physically larger than >> "bare" drives AND you have to keep track of a particular power supply for >> that particular drive enclosure (if you have lots of bare drives, none of >> them need power supplies -- just the *dock* does!) > >All mine run on 12v. > > >NT All mine run off the USB port. Some higher performance drives come with a Y cable that has two USB connectors, to slurp more power, but our tiny backup drives have just a single short pigtail USB cable. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 18:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob4f9n$ale$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453474 |
On 3/24/2017 5:14 PM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, 24 March 2017 18:39:02 UTC, Don Y wrote: > >> The other problem with USB drives is they tend to be physically larger than >> "bare" drives AND you have to keep track of a particular power supply for >> that particular drive enclosure (if you have lots of bare drives, none of >> them need power supplies -- just the *dock* does!) > > All mine run on 12v. I have (HDD) drives that run off 12V, 12V&5V and USB-powered. The 12V-only drives have different inner/outer diameter "barrel" connectors so a power supply for one isn't likely to physically *fit* another. [I have other drives that aren't mentioned here that have additional power supply constraints. And, some that are AC mains powered] The 12V&5V drives use a polarized 4-pin connector (similar to <https://guide.alibaba.com/image/i1/sd-40-conn-circular-din-4-pin-male/TB17TffKXXXXXXWXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!0-item_pic.jpg> but different). Many months ago, I discovered that a power supply for a different device using the same physical connector had a different pinout -- the 12 & 5 volt pins being swapped -- that made short order out of trashing a HDD and its enclosure. [I've since labeled the offending power supplies -- I have half a dozen of them -- with "Do NOT use for Disk Drives!". I can't simply discard them as the devices they power would then be useless. And, I don't feel inclined to reqire the devices AND the power supplies to be consistent with the other HDD enclosures!] The USB-powered drives come in three flavors: - powered from a single USB(2) connection - powered by a USB "Y-cable" (unsupported by the standard) - powered by one of the above with an external 5V supply option While it is relatively easy to ensure the "right" power supply is paired with a laptop, for example (just stick it in the laptop case alongside the laptop to which it applies!), this isn't as easy to do with HDD, MO, CD, DVD, etc. "external enclosures" -- unless you keep the power supply plugged into the enclosure! P-Touch labeller is a great investment! Just crank out labels for EVERY power supply, wall wart, etc. that could potentially get "confused" or "misplaced". (Also handy for putting hostnames on network devices AND their current loginnames/passwords)
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 09:35 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ejibpvF8683U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452905 |
On 2017-03-21 10:21, John Larkin wrote: > > I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of > junk. > > I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. A PC with a 10M drive was top-end. > My first one had 20MB but it cost about 10x of today's terabyte drives. > There's no point in reducing jpeg sizes, or even deleting stuff, any > more. I could never take enough pics, or create enough docs, to keep > up with the progress in hard drives. I suppose some people could > collect a large number of HD movies and use a terabyte somehow. > True but that all comes to an abrupt end when you are in the boonies, someone asks you to proof a presentation, the file size is 15MB and after finishing the first beer the download progress bar has managed to get to 5% when ... beep ... signal loss. > It's impossible to crack one-time-pad encryption. Giant hard drives > and memory sticks make OTP files easy to physically hand off to > correspondents. > And then the rightful owner doesn't remember the password. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 18:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <fPqdnafUM7f-00nFnZ2dnUU7-c-dnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #452905 |
John Larkin wrote:
>
> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of
> junk.
>
> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives.
Don't you mean a floppy drive?
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
They don't get mad.
They don't get even.
They go for over unity! ;-)
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 16:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob1kua$u3q$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453267 |
On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: > John Larkin wrote: >> >> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >> junk. >> >> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. > > Don't you mean a floppy drive? My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate head; no need to MOVE the heads!) The controller weighed a bit less (though both units had to typically be mounted in a "rack" so you're looking at probably 500 pounds to have *a* disk spinning (though the controller could handle a total of four such disks -- a whopping million words of storage!) You'd need a *second* rack to install drives 3 and 4. The medium was "word accessible". So, you'd specify which word you wanted to start with and how many words following it in which you were interested. Data rate was something like 60KHz (that's K for KILO). To power a controller and 4 attached drives, you'd need a 20A branch circuit AND would have to sequence the startup (spinup) commands for the individual drives lest you blow that breaker (I think each drive required ~500W).
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| From | Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 18:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ObKdneYVnNMm8UnFnZ2dnUU7-YfNnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #453273 |
On 03/23/2017 07:18 PM, Don Y wrote: > On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >> John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >>> junk. >>> >>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. >> >> Don't you mean a floppy drive? > > My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). > The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. > The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were > 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access > delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate > head; no need to MOVE the heads!) > > The controller weighed a bit less (though both units had to typically > be mounted in a "rack" so you're looking at probably 500 pounds to have > *a* disk spinning (though the controller could handle a total of > four such disks -- a whopping million words of storage!) You'd need > a *second* rack to install drives 3 and 4. > > The medium was "word accessible". So, you'd specify which word you > wanted to start with and how many words following it in which you were > interested. Data rate was something like 60KHz (that's K for KILO). > > To power a controller and 4 attached drives, you'd need a 20A branch > circuit > AND would have to sequence the startup (spinup) commands for the individual > drives lest you blow that breaker (I think each drive required ~500W). I call BS. What system was that, and when, exactly? The original hard drive was the IBM RAMAC, demonstrated in 1956, which had a capacity of 5 million characters. Was yours built in somebody's garage, maybe? Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 18:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob1t5u$im8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453303 |
On 3/23/2017 3:29 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote: > On 03/23/2017 07:18 PM, Don Y wrote: >> On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of >>>> junk. >>>> >>>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives. >>> >>> Don't you mean a floppy drive? >> >> My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b). >> The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds. >> The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were >> 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access >> delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate >> head; no need to MOVE the heads!) >> >> The controller weighed a bit less (though both units had to typically >> be mounted in a "rack" so you're looking at probably 500 pounds to have >> *a* disk spinning (though the controller could handle a total of >> four such disks -- a whopping million words of storage!) You'd need >> a *second* rack to install drives 3 and 4. >> >> The medium was "word accessible". So, you'd specify which word you >> wanted to start with and how many words following it in which you were >> interested. Data rate was something like 60KHz (that's K for KILO). >> >> To power a controller and 4 attached drives, you'd need a 20A branch >> circuit >> AND would have to sequence the startup (spinup) commands for the individual >> drives lest you blow that breaker (I think each drive required ~500W). > > > I call BS. > > What system was that, and when, exactly? The original hard drive was the IBM > RAMAC, demonstrated in 1956, which had a capacity of 5 million characters. Was > yours built in somebody's garage, maybe? RS08 with an RF08 controller. Google is your friend. How do you like your "crow" served? :>
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 18:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob1u2v$l1m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453315 |
On 3/23/2017 6:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 3/23/2017 3:29 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 03/23/2017 07:18 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 3/23/2017 3:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just happened to open my recycle bin and there was 42 Gbytes of
>>>>> junk.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember 256 Kbyte hard drives.
>>>>
>>>> Don't you mean a floppy drive?
>>>
>>> My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words (words were 12b).
>>> The "disk" (i.e., the actual storage medium) weighted 100 pounds.
>>> The (single) platter was 14 inches in diameter, IIRC. There were
>>> 16? head assemblies arranged around the drive -- the only access
>>> delay was rotational (wait for the data to move under the appropriate
>>> head; no need to MOVE the heads!)
>>>
>>> The controller weighed a bit less (though both units had to typically
>>> be mounted in a "rack" so you're looking at probably 500 pounds to have
>>> *a* disk spinning (though the controller could handle a total of
>>> four such disks -- a whopping million words of storage!) You'd need
>>> a *second* rack to install drives 3 and 4.
>>>
>>> The medium was "word accessible". So, you'd specify which word you
>>> wanted to start with and how many words following it in which you were
>>> interested. Data rate was something like 60KHz (that's K for KILO).
>>>
>>> To power a controller and 4 attached drives, you'd need a 20A branch
>>> circuit
>>> AND would have to sequence the startup (spinup) commands for the individual
>>> drives lest you blow that breaker (I think each drive required ~500W).
>>
>> I call BS.
>>
>> What system was that, and when, exactly? The original hard drive was the IBM
>> RAMAC, demonstrated in 1956, which had a capacity of 5 million characters. Was
>> yours built in somebody's garage, maybe?
>
> RS08 with an RF08 controller. Google is your friend.
<http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp8/disc/DEC-08-HIEA-DA_RF08_Jun70.pdf>
Photo of controller and ONE drive in a standard DEC rack on page 10 of PDF.
Exposed view of components on page 12 (OK, maybe it was a 16 inch platter?)
Specifications on page 13:
"Each RS08 stores 262,144 13-bit words"
"Four RS08's can be controlled by one RF08 to proide storage for up
to 1,048,576 words"
"16.0us per word" (~60KHz)
"128 data tracks"
"2048 words per track"
"150W" for controller
"300W" for EACH drive
"Motor run: 4A continuous at 115VAC"
(Page 16 of PDF claims need for a 30A circuit @ 115VAC; I misremember)
"Weight of an RF08, RS08, power supply and rack 500pounds"
"Weight of an RF08, TWO RS08's, power supply and rack 600 pounds"
(i.e., drive weight 100 pounds)
DEC's facilities weren't exactly "garages" -- though the old mill wasn't
what you'd call "tech" by today's standards!
> How do you like your "crow" served? :>
>
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| From | pcdhobbs@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 19:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20621a20-e013-44c2-a89f-8ebe2c0af752@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453316 |
What a piece of crap. More than 15 years behind the times, and only a few percent of the capacity. DEC did some good things, but that wasn't one of them. Cheers Phil Hobbs
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 19:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob202m$p9d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453319 |
On 3/23/2017 7:16 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: > What a piece of crap. More than 15 years behind the times, and only a few percent of the capacity. > > DEC did some good things, but that wasn't one of them. I didn't claim it was good -- or bad. I maf4e a set of statements; you refused to accept them as factual; I presented proof.
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| From | pcdhobbs@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 19:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <04fd29cc-ec06-4458-92a9-a6d0c493debf@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453321 |
>RS08 with an RF08 controller. I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. Cheers Phil Hobbs
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 23:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <i239dcdaefe92ij934he3tmud3o03pgft6@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453326 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:55:38 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: > >>RS08 with an RF08 controller. > >I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. As JL points out, it may have been a fixed-head paging store for a real-time system. IBM made such things, too. Multiple-heads per track, even.
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| From | pcdhobbs@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 22:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <dc2bf93d-c58c-4176-ae5f-7aba028d5b5b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453328 |
>As JL points out, it may have been a fixed-head paging store for a >real-time system. IBM made such things, too. In 1960, sure. Not in 1970! Cheers Phil Hobbs
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 08:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2ifadcdsg4hvo4860oat0com920plmklmp@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453337 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:00:58 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>As JL points out, it may have been a fixed-head paging store for a >>real-time system. IBM made such things, too. > >In 1960, sure. Not in 1970! > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs DEC let small shops get into computing. My first computer was a PDP8 with a teletype, cost $12K around 1969. It had 4Kx12 core. I programmed a steamship throttle control simulation on it and impressed some old salts enough to get us into the marine automation business. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 22:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <0tlbdchuu1mk11p1tvimqul4jmevksia8p@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453337 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:00:58 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>As JL points out, it may have been a fixed-head paging store for a >>real-time system. IBM made such things, too. > >In 1960, sure. Not in 1970! Nope. There were fixed head, four heads per track, paging stores on the 3155s (370/155) we used for CAD work in the '70s. Some called them "drums", even.
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 22:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob2a9o$7ll$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453326 |
On 3/23/2017 7:55 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: > >> RS08 with an RF08 controller. > > I used DEC hardware back in the mid-80s, when it was vaguely tolerable. It's > long ago now, but I pity your earlier self for being stuck with crap like > that. Fifteen years late with 5% of the capacity--yippee for Route 128. It was the 70's and it was part of a PDP8i that was gifted to me while still a student. Had I held onto it, it probably would have been worth a few bucks, today. OTOH, lugging around the full-size rack AND the piece of furniture that was the 8i just to hold onto them would have been tedious. How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's?
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| From | pcdhobbs@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 23:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d6175337-d1ba-4d17-826f-5b0837ca6789@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453340 |
>How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's? Your reference was from 1970, when I was 10 years old and had just got a soldering gun and some plumber's solder for my birthday. (My parents were very supportive but didn't know much about radio. The debt I owe them has hopefully been paid to the next generation.) Soon after that point I had to save up a month's pocket money plus what I earned from extra chores to buy parts to build projects with. My programming career started in about 1973, writing programs for a small HP machine owned by the local school board, then a year or so later coding for various HP calculators. Subsequently I've gone on to greater things, but I still have an HP 41CV that I used just today. Cheers Phil Hobbs
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| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 00:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ob2h95$obg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453342 |
On 3/23/2017 11:08 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
>> How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's?
>
> Your reference was from 1970,
No, the MANUAL that I referenced was from 1970. My reference to the
*equipment* was:
"My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words..."
John Larkin referenced 1970 (feel free to check back up-thread)
> when I was 10 years old and had just got a
> soldering gun and some plumber's solder for my birthday. (My parents were
> very supportive but didn't know much about radio. The debt I owe them has
> hopefully been paid to the next generation.)
>
> Soon after that point I had to save up a month's pocket money plus what I
> earned from extra chores to buy parts to build projects with.
I built my first computers from "samples" begged from sales reps (while
working my way through school). And, from bits of kit gifted to me by friends
who worked at firms like DEC (I could never afford to buy even USED kit of this
sort AND arrange to pay my tuition, rent, board, etc.)
> My programming career started in about 1973, writing programs for a small HP
> machine owned by the local school board, then a year or so later coding for
> various HP calculators. Subsequently I've gone on to greater things, but I
> still have an HP 41CV that I used just today.
My school district didn't own a computer until after I'd graduated. Prior
to that point, a glorified Wang "multi-terminal calculator" (with paper
cards punched with a stylus)) was the closest thing they had to a programmable
device.
However, I'd started writing code some 4 years earlier on a small time sharing
system using an ASR-33 with 103 modem. Then, "progressed" to punched cards
on a small mainframe while taking "night classes" at a local college. Later,
of course, the innumerable *different* computers each of my regular college
classes used to present their coursework (each professor seemed to have
designed their own OS and system to support their courses).
It wasn't until I was *in* college that the idea of OWNING a computer was a
realistic option -- the choice being between building something around the
i4004 or the i8085. The 8i and RS08's were "unexpected gifts" -- while the
few other classmates were tinkering with floppy disk drives, I had 512K words
of spinning rust (two RS08's). And, *16KB* of DRAM that I'd wirewrapped on
an Augat board (a sawwed-off portion of a "discard" I'd salvaged due to some
damage to the sockets on one end of the panel)
Of course, I'm a hardware person so not interested in writing programs to
"edit text" or "draw graphs" but, rather, to "control mechanisms". So, the
I/O's that are of interest don't stress "displays" or "keyboards". And, the
techniques with which machines are built even more interesting (e.g., the
"flip chip" approach of the PDP8 *seemed* clever -- until I actually had to
think about what the interconnects involved)
As a result, I didn't have to spend "real money" on kit until after I'd
left college. Yet, I'd been able to play with a fair bit of it for many
years before that -- independent of the kit supplied by the schools involved!
[When its *your* money at stake, you're a lot less fussy about the size,
speed, quality, noise, capacity, etc. of that kit! "Free" forgives a lot
of shortcomings! And, you don't have any "attachment" to the kit when
it becomes to cumbersome to cart around to each new residence! :> ]
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 09:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <59gadc55dm58qr5q9eqn5q67vabhblf949@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453351 |
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:21:50 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >On 3/23/2017 11:08 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>> How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's? >> >> Your reference was from 1970, > >No, the MANUAL that I referenced was from 1970. My reference to the >*equipment* was: > "My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words..." >John Larkin referenced 1970 (feel free to check back up-thread) > >> when I was 10 years old and had just got a >> soldering gun and some plumber's solder for my birthday. (My parents were >> very supportive but didn't know much about radio. The debt I owe them has >> hopefully been paid to the next generation.) >> >> Soon after that point I had to save up a month's pocket money plus what I >> earned from extra chores to buy parts to build projects with. > >I built my first computers from "samples" begged from sales reps (while >working my way through school). And, from bits of kit gifted to me by friends >who worked at firms like DEC (I could never afford to buy even USED kit of this >sort AND arrange to pay my tuition, rent, board, etc.) The first (and only) computer that I actually designed was two boards full of TTL. It had three instructions and a 20 KHz 4-phase clock. Everybody should design a CPU just once, even as a mental activity. My career has been blessed by working for companies (including my own) that had no coherent marketing. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-24 17:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ob3gfh$var$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453407 |
On 24/03/17 17:00, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:21:50 -0700, Don Y > <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: > >> On 3/23/2017 11:08 PM, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote: >>>> How much did you part with for the kit YOU were using in the mid 70's? >>> >>> Your reference was from 1970, >> >> No, the MANUAL that I referenced was from 1970. My reference to the >> *equipment* was: >> "My first *hard* disk had a capacity of 256K words..." >> John Larkin referenced 1970 (feel free to check back up-thread) >> >>> when I was 10 years old and had just got a >>> soldering gun and some plumber's solder for my birthday. (My parents were >>> very supportive but didn't know much about radio. The debt I owe them has >>> hopefully been paid to the next generation.) >>> >>> Soon after that point I had to save up a month's pocket money plus what I >>> earned from extra chores to buy parts to build projects with. >> >> I built my first computers from "samples" begged from sales reps (while >> working my way through school). And, from bits of kit gifted to me by friends >> who worked at firms like DEC (I could never afford to buy even USED kit of this >> sort AND arrange to pay my tuition, rent, board, etc.) > > The first (and only) computer that I actually designed was two boards > full of TTL. It had three instructions and a 20 KHz 4-phase clock. > > Everybody should design a CPU just once, even as a mental activity. > As a teenager, I designed a 4-bit ALU using nothing but two-input NAND gates. It even had a single-cycle multiplier - all drawn out neatly on graph paper. But I never got round to building it... > My career has been blessed by working for companies (including my own) > that had no coherent marketing. > > >
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