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Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die
Date 2017-06-02 15:54 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ogsfih$eb2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <7f8931fb-e9d5-4a1b-b548-e78530e2ac6a@googlegroups.com> <ogs7kf$6qi$1@dont-email.me> <e961b4b6-5225-4ea3-9685-5688db09cdaf@googlegroups.com> <ogsdnf$85q$1@dont-email.me> <581c107f-c5ac-451a-8f94-ee91470b05ff@googlegroups.com>

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Klaus Kragelund wrote on 6/2/2017 3:36 PM:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:22:46 PM UTC+2, rickman wrote:
>> Klaus Kragelund wrote on 6/2/2017 1:47 PM:
>>> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:38:46 PM UTC+2, rickman wrote:
>>>> klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote on 6/2/2017 1:01 PM:
>>>>> On Friday, 2 June 2017 17:21:13 UTC+2, rickman  wrote:
>>>>>> klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote on 6/2/2017 4:13 AM:
>>>>>>> On Friday, 2 June 2017 02:04:06 UTC+2, rickman  wrote:
>>>>>>>> Klaus Kragelund wrote on 6/1/2017 7:47 PM:
>>>>>>>>> Datasheet:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.gsense.com.cn/Uploadfiles/20144241734995881.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WTF?  You had to find the data sheet on a third party web site???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok, I dug a bit at gsense.com and it seems they are the parent company.  How
>>>>>>>> did you find the data sheet?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Google is your friend
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I have to use Google to find a data sheet, I figure the company must not
>>>>>> make the parts anymore or at least aren't looking for sales.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Price = 0.3 USD in volume, at least 25% cheaper than the STM32
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did you get a price?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Page 11:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://site.eettaiwan.com/events/iot/201607/pdf/GigaDevice-GD32-Cortex-M3-MCU-ECCN.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, a BS marketing price.  Which part, what quantity...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The process is split, so one is logic and SRAM. The other is flash. Always cheaper to separate technologies
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Huh?  Having two die is not so cheap.  If two separate die are "always"
>>>>>>>> better, why do they combine the Flash with CPU in most cases for chips in
>>>>>>>> this range?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In this case it's cheaper, as far as I know because they only pay ARM licencing for a chip without flash, and they have good grip on the flash technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who says it is cheaper?  If you can't buy them it doesn't matter.  I can't
>>>>>> find anyone who sells them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Operation from SRAM draws less current
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't see that in the numbers in the data sheet.  ~300 uA/MHz.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not specifically stated. For reference look up the STM32 datasheet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is 300 uA/MHz is not even in the running for low power these days.
>>>>>>   The fact that running from SRAM *should* use less current doesn't mean
>>>>>> their chips are competitive.  I believe the forefront of low power ARMs is
>>>>>> in the 100 uA/MHz these days.  Am I mistaken?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Check for example the STM32F130 datasheet, page 42:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/33/d4/6f/1d/df/0b/4c/6d/CD00161566.pdf/files/CD00161566.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00161566.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> SRAM is about 10% lower power consumption than flash
>>>>
>>>> You are comparing the Giga part to an ST part that is 10 years old, right?
>>>> 300 uA/MHz is not on the forefront of power efficiency.  TI and Silicon Labs
>>>> have CM3 and CM4 parts that can reach power consumption below 100 uA/MHz.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is not about features but about specifications.  I don't care how
>>>> an MCU gets low power.  The Giga part is not in the realm of what is
>>>> considered low power anymore.
>>>>
>>> Yes, but you certainly won't get a low power ST part in that price range
>>>
>>> Low power is a sales feature until they all have that feature 😀
>>>
>>> Comparing apples to apples 🍎
>>
>> The point is you are claiming the use of an external Flash allows *lower*
>> power operation.  That is irrelevant when the chip spec is *much* worse than
>> others in the same performance class.  If you want to compare prices, then
>> compare prices.  This isn't about apples.
>>
>> The $0.30 price is not a quote, it is a mythical price based on buying some
>> enormous quantity.  Since their parts aren't actually offered for sale
>> anywhere that I would be buying them it doesn't matter what price a
>> marketing sheet says they go for.  I did find Symmetry that offers them for
>> $0.71.
>>
> Some parts are not offered in public, they are offered with distributors frame work agreements

In other words, if you aren't buying a million a year, buzz off!  Got it!

-- 

Rick C

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Thread

Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-05-31 16:08 -0700
  Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-31 19:22 -0400
    Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-31 23:27 -0700
      Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 12:58 -0400
        Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-06-01 10:14 -0700
          Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 14:56 -0400
            Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 18:21 -0400
              Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-06-01 15:37 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 18:40 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-06-01 15:55 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 19:03 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 16:47 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 16:51 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-06-01 17:09 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-01 17:12 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 20:17 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 20:04 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:13 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-02 11:21 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 09:51 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 10:01 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-02 13:38 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 10:47 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-02 15:22 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 12:36 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-06-02 15:54 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 20:20 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-01 20:24 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:19 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 12:47 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 09:56 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 17:35 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 15:43 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 18:58 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 16:27 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 19:31 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 15:09 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-03 20:35 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-01 20:10 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:22 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 12:50 -0400
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:24 -0700
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-02 15:38 +0200
                Re: Reliability of microcontroller silicon die glue on top of another die krw@notreal.com - 2017-06-02 12:51 -0400

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