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Re: buck converter for negative voltages

From Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: buck converter for negative voltages
Date 2017-02-03 09:44 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o724r7$e2q$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <o6ti3m0312e@drn.newsguy.com> <3pk49ct21gjuhka45gqe30g5c7s7f48upg@4ax.com> <43f62388-eb31-41b0-89e4-72f861ac6411@googlegroups.com> <o701hv014n9@drn.newsguy.com>

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On 02/02/2017 02:33 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote...
>>
>> Den onsdag den 1. februar 2017 kl. 23.27.44 UTC+1 skrev Winfield Hill:
>>> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote...
>>>>
>>>> Den onsdag den 1. februar 2017 kl. skrev Winfield Hill:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Winfield Hill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suggestions for buck converter ICs for negative voltages?
>>>>>>> Controller ICs (external MOSFETs) would be nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't recall ever seeing a real negative-to-negative
>>>>>> switcher!  People sometimes hack a positive controller.
>>>>>
>>>>>  LTC also suggests the positive boost-converter hack,
>>>>>  in design note DN1022.
>>>>
>>>> if you can figure out a way to flip the feedback or live with the
>>>> output being relative to input, wouldn't any synchronous buck work?
>>>
>>>  The feedback is inverted in a *boost* converter, one
>>>  just needs to translate it down to the negative rail.
>>
>> afaict it is the same issue, you need to make the feedback
>> relative to ground instead of to the negative rail
>
>  Actually, besides level-shifting the feedback to the IC's
>  FB pin, which is referenced to -Vin, it's necessary to
>  invert the sign of the feedback.  That becomes clear when
>  comparing buck-converter duty-cycle formula Vout/Vin = D,
>  with a boost converter, Vout/Vin = 1/(1-D).  Also, it's
>  obvious that when -Vout increases (more negative), FB
>  must increase (more positive).
>
>  The inversion occurs in the level-shift transistor, Q1.
>
> .  gnd ----+---------+--------+--------,
> .       ___|____     |       _|_       |
> .      |        |   _|_      ---      R1
> .      | boost  |   /_\       |        |
> .      |        |    |        |        |
> .      |     SW |----+-#####--+---+------- -Vout
> .      |        |                 B    |
> .      |     FB |----+----------C   E--'
> .      |________|    |           Q1 pnp
> .          |        R2
> .          |         |
> .  -Vin ---+---------+-----
>
>

I sometimes put cap multipliers inside the feedback loop of a 
positive-supply switcher, with an RC highpass to make the loop stable 
(the way you do with a slow buffer or a big C load).  (It helps the load 
regulation without wasting power on maintaining worst-case headroom all 
the time.) You can't do that when using a buck in inverting mode, for 
exactly this reason.

There are shunt references that work upside down, e.g. the LM385 and 
LM4041-ADJ, but no switchers that I know of.

Using one of those references instead of your PNP (with an RC highpass 
as above) would get rid of the V_BE error for fairly cheap.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

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Thread

buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-01 12:57 -0800
  Re: buck converter for negative voltages John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-01 13:35 -0800
    Re: buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-01 14:02 -0800
      Re: buck converter for negative voltages Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-01 14:16 -0800
        Re: buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-01 14:27 -0800
          Re: buck converter for negative voltages Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-01 14:39 -0800
            Re: buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-02 11:33 -0800
              Re: buck converter for negative voltages Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-03 09:44 -0500
      Re: buck converter for negative voltages John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-01 14:38 -0800
        Re: buck converter for negative voltages Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-01 14:43 -0800
          Re: buck converter for negative voltages John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-01 15:35 -0800
            Re: buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-01 18:25 -0800
  Re: buck converter for negative voltages Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-01 13:36 -0800
  Re: buck converter for negative voltages Wanderer <wanderer@dialup4less.com> - 2017-02-01 15:04 -0800

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