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Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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From Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil
Date Sun, 06 Sep 2026 17:48:59 -0300
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Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> writes:
> The V2 reached 100 Km, the border to space. A few Km higher is enough
> for a LEO. Might have been sufficient to start it near equator instead
> of Peenemünde to get another 40,000Km / 24h for free.

Suborbital flight is further from orbit than you might think.  Reaching
100km of altitude requires 0.98MJ/kg (100km · 9.81m/s/s), a Δv of
1.4km/s (E/m = ½v²).  Mean orbital speed v ≈ √(GM/a).  Earth weighs
M = 5.97 × 10²⁴ kg, G = 6.67 m³/kg/s/s, and a in this case is the radius
of the earth (6371km) plus our height of 100 km.  This works out to
7.85km/s, a kinetic energy of 30.8MJ/kg.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed#Tangential_velocities_at_altitude>

So, suborbital flights to the von Kármán line, as game-changing as they
would have been had decent guidance systems existed in 01942, are about
18% of the way to orbit in Δv terms, or 3% of the way in energy terms.

In particular, the V-2 was designed for 75%-ethanol 25%-water fuel with
a cryogenic liquid-oxygen oxidizer (“Brennstoff”).  Pure ethanol has
30MJ/kg, so it cannot reach orbit.  Carrying the oxygen cuts that in
half or more.  The V-2 engines needed to be completely redesigned for
more energetic rocket fuels.  So trying to orbit a payload with a V-2
wouldn’t be any more effective than trying to climb a ladder to the
moon.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#In_chemical_reactions_(oxidation)>

To be fair, by the end of the war, the Germans had built rockets before
the end of the war that ran on various more exciting mixes like
C-Stoff/T-Stoff and S-Stoff (with some reductant).

Kragen

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OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-06 06:38 +0000
  Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 03:50 -0700
    Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-06 11:18 +0000
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 07:54 -0700
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-06 16:54 +0000
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:00 +1000
          Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 07:58 -0700
            Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 17:55 +1000
              Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-08 08:03 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-08 17:26 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-08 17:29 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-09 02:49 +1000
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-09-09 17:45 +0000
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-06 18:36 +0000
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-09-08 11:29 +0100
          Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-09-09 15:36 +0100
          Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-11 18:22 +0000
    Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-06 12:53 +0100
    Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-06 15:08 +0200
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 07:55 -0700
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-06 20:19 +0200
          Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 11:54 -0700
            Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 20:08 +0100
            Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-06 21:12 +0200
              Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 13:06 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:15 +1000
              Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-09-06 16:09 -0400
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-06 22:31 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-09-06 18:50 -0400
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-07 10:10 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-09-07 10:01 -0400
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 18:06 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-08 21:15 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-08 23:58 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-11 20:37 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-12 10:33 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:21 +1000
              Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-06 23:33 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 22:53 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 23:03 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 18:59 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-10 19:37 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-14 18:04 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 15:06 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 23:21 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-06 15:56 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:38 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 08:01 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 02:21 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 09:43 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 17:44 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.duckdns.org> - 2026-09-14 10:27 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:26 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-07 10:23 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 09:37 +0100
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-07 11:15 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 08:03 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 02:30 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-07 07:19 +0000
            Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-07 16:09 +1000
              Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-07 08:07 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-08 02:51 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-09 19:47 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-09-09 13:08 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-11 18:24 +0000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-12 16:37 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-12 09:55 +0200
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 08:18 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 01:37 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 09:07 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 03:46 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-09-12 08:07 -0700
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-09-13 04:00 +1000
                Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-09-10 02:50 +0200
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-06 20:24 +0200
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-06 17:48 -0300
      Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-09-09 17:45 +0000
        Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-11 18:35 +0000
          Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 20:46 +0200
            Re: OT: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-09-11 19:46 +0000

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