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The Moon

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Contents

  The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-09 11:51 -0800
    Re: The Moon Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-09 14:25 -0600
      Re: The Moon Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-09 14:32 -0600
        Re: The Moon djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2017-01-10 07:15 +0000
          Re: The Moon Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-10 09:34 -0600
            Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 08:58 -0800
            Re: The Moon shima.tetsuo@dai.tokyo.teikoku (島鉄雄) - 2017-01-11 10:50 +0000
              Re: The Moon djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2017-01-11 13:48 +0000
                Re: The Moon larry <ljmoore@wightman.ca> - 2017-01-16 13:49 +0000
          Re: The Moon Kuri Yretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-10 15:12 -0600
            Re: The Moon Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-10 13:38 -0800
              Re: The Moon Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2017-01-10 16:47 -0500
                Re: The Moon Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 14:11 -0700
                  Re: The Moon Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2017-01-11 04:22 -0800
                    Re: The Moon Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-11 08:43 -0700
                Re: The Moon Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2017-01-10 14:55 -0800
                  Re: The Moon Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2017-01-10 18:33 -0500
              Re: The Moon Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 14:09 -0700
              Re: The Moon Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-10 17:38 -0800
                Re: The Moon Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2017-01-11 02:18 -0500
                  Re: The Moon Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2017-01-11 06:01 -0800
                    Re: The Moon Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-11 09:08 -0800
                      Re: The Moon Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2017-01-11 10:14 -0800
                        Re: The Moon Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-11 13:23 -0800
                          Re: The Moon Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 23:01 -0600
                            Re: The Moon Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-12 21:52 -0800
                              Re: The Moon Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 05:48 -0800
                    Re: The Moon Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-11 15:35 -0800
                  Re: The Moon djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2017-01-11 14:05 +0000
              Re: The Moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2017-01-10 21:47 -0700
            Re: The Moon moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-01-11 15:00 +0000
    Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-09 21:28 -0800
    Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-09 21:46 -0800
      Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-09 21:49 -0800
        Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 09:08 -0800
        Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 23:05 -0800
          Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-10 23:16 -0800
            Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-11 14:21 -0800
              Re: The Moon Kuri Yretin <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2017-01-11 19:36 -0600
          Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-12 22:36 -0800
            Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 11:01 -0800
              Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-13 22:44 -0800
                Re: The Moon The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-01-16 10:12 -0800

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#461985 — The Moon

https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/moon-formation-theories/504449/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/09/moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/




It could only mean one thing....a trip to the moon.




to stop their ridiculous bickering and stupid theories.


they should be shot. caused they are stupid.






moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/




What does "new-theory" mean???? A new kook?


Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory", cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!

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#461990

On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>
>
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/moon-formation-theories/504449/
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/09/moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/

>
>  It could only mean one thing....a trip to the moon.

> to stop their ridiculous bickering and stupid theories.

> they should be shot. caused they are stupid.

> moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/

> What does "new-theory" mean???? A new kook?

> Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory",
> cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!
>

so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?

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#461991

On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>
>>
>>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/moon-formation-theories/504449/
>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/09/moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/
>>
>
>>
>>  It could only mean one thing....a trip to the moon.
>
>> to stop their ridiculous bickering and stupid theories.
>
>> they should be shot. caused they are stupid.
>
>> moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/
>
>> What does "new-theory" mean???? A new kook?
>
>> Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory",
>> cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!
>>
>
> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?

Moon is an English word

Luna is Latin

Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah

Луна [луна́]    in russian

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#462012

In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>
>https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/moon-formation-theories/504449/
>>
>>>
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/09/moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>  It could only mean one thing....a trip to the moon.
>>
>>> to stop their ridiculous bickering and stupid theories.
>>
>>> they should be shot. caused they are stupid.
>>
>>> moon-formed-merger-20-little-moonlets-new-theory-suggests/
>>
>>> What does "new-theory" mean???? A new kook?
>>
>>> Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory",
>>> cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!
>>>
>>
>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
>
>Moon is an English word
>
>Luna is Latin
>
>Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>
>Луна [луна́]    in russian

Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
Cyrillic.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#462017

On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>
>> https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

>>>
>>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
>>
>> Moon is an English word
>>
>> Luna is Latin
>>
>> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>>
>> Луна [луна́]    in russian
>
> Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
> string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
> Cyrillic.
>

funny, when I read it from the server, the one I posted,  it is in 
cryillic, (using thunderbird reading from aioe)

but when I read yours it is messed up ascii...  are you reading from 
aioe or google groups? or ?

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#462022

Yuri Kretin wrote:
> 
> On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
> >> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
> >>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>>
> >> https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> 
> >>>
> >>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
> >>
> >> Moon is an English word
> >>
> >> Luna is Latin
> >>
> >> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
> >>
> >> Луна [луна́]    in russian
> >
> > Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
> > string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
> > Cyrillic.
> >
> 
> funny, when I read it from the server, the one I posted,  it is in
> cryillic, (using thunderbird reading from aioe)
> 
> but when I read yours it is messed up ascii...  are you reading from
> aioe or google groups? or ?


she's not reading it from Kansas anymore...

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#462090

島鉄雄です。
Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> in <o52uu2$1nqf$1@gioia.aioe.org> writes:

> On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>>>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
>>>
>>> Moon is an English word
>>>
>>> Luna is Latin
>>>
>>> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>>>
>>> Луна [луна́]    in russian
>>
>> Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
>> string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
>> Cyrillic.
>>
>
> funny, when I read it from the server, the one I posted,  it is in
> cryillic, (using thunderbird reading from aioe)
>
> but when I read yours it is messed up ascii...  are you reading from
> aioe or google groups? or ?

I think her newsreader don't support Unicode.

-- 
41号

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#462100

In article <m2ziix50qc.fsf@dai.tokyo.teikoku>,
å³¶é  é   <shima.tetsuo@dai.tokyo.teikoku> wrote:
>島鉄雄です。
>Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> in <o52uu2$1nqf$1@gioia.aioe.org> writes:
>
>> On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>>>>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
>>>>
>>>> Moon is an English word
>>>>
>>>> Luna is Latin
>>>>
>>>> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>>>>
>>>> Луна [луна́]    in russian
>>>
>>> Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
>>> string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
>>> Cyrillic.
>>>
>>
>> funny, when I read it from the server, the one I posted,  it is in
>> cryillic, (using thunderbird reading from aioe)
>>
>> but when I read yours it is messed up ascii...  are you reading from
>> aioe or google groups? or ?
>
>I think her newsreader don't support Unicode.

I think so too.  It's trn, running on BSD UNIX.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#462519

On 2017-01-11, Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <m2ziix50qc.fsf@dai.tokyo.teikoku>,
> ????  ?   <shima.tetsuo@dai.tokyo.teikoku> wrote:
>>??????????????????
>>Yuri Kretin <invlaid@invalid.com> in <o52uu2$1nqf$1@gioia.aioe.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>> Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>https://www.google.com/#q=Researchers+Suggest+New+Theory+for+the+Moon%E2%80%99s+Origin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Moon is an English word
>>>>>
>>>>> Luna is Latin
>>>>>
>>>>> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>>>>>
>>>>> ????????????????? [????????????????????]    in russian
>>>>
>>>> Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
>>>> string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
>>>> Cyrillic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> funny, when I read it from the server, the one I posted,  it is in
>>> cryillic, (using thunderbird reading from aioe)
>>>
>>> but when I read yours it is messed up ascii...  are you reading from
>>> aioe or google groups? or ?
>>
>>I think her newsreader don't support Unicode.
>
> I think so too.  It's trn, running on BSD UNIX.
>

Interesting. There is an OpenBSD slrn package which has 
partial UniCode support.

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#462045

On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>

>>>
>>>> Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory",
>>>> cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!
>>>>
>>>
>>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?

>> Moon is an English word
>>
>> Luna is Latin
>>
>> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
>>
>> Луна [луна́]    in russian
>
> Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
> string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
> Cyrillic.
>

using english letters
it was spelt with a    " capital pi y H a' "   in cyrillic letters

or  using letter names El U  En  A

  or by sound  l u n a

amazing!

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#462050

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 21:12:11 UTC, Kuri Yretin  wrote:
> On 1/10/2017 1:15 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <o50s1j$j4g$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > Yuri Kretin  <invlaid@invalid.com> wrote:
> >> On 1/9/2017 2:25 PM, Yuri Kretin wrote:
> >>> On 1/9/2017 1:51 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>>
> 
> >>>
> >>>> Yous people should not be allowed to come up with..."new-theory",
> >>>> cause they are gettin stupidier by the moment!
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> so, what were these "pre-moonies" called ?
> 
> >> Moon is an English word
> >>
> >> Luna is Latin
> >>
> >> Levanah in Hebrew, or yareh-ah
> >>
> >> Луна [Ð»ÑƒÐ½Ð°Ì ]    in russian
> >
> > Could you transliterate that last, please?  I'm seeing a long
> > string of non-ASCII characters that don't look anything like
> > Cyrillic.
> >
> 
> using english letters
> it was spelt with a    " capital pi y H a' "   in cyrillic letters
> 
> or  using letter names El U  En  A
>
>    or by sound  l u n a
>
> amazing!

Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".

I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
one of which is to speak Russian.

I suspect that this may appear in the wrong group 
to be read; of course I blame that on Starmaker.

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#462053

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:38:20 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
>as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
>I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
>brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
>how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".

It doesn't.  A squared-off, straight-line pi is P.  The L has a curled
left leg and is derived from how medieval monks wrote lambda.

>I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
>one of which is to speak Russian.

It's not really all THAT hard a language.  Just remember to never open
your mouth wide or draw your tongue back too far and you'll be able to
handle the pronunciation -- it's designed to be spoken in stupidly
cold weather.



-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#462057

Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote in
news:vcla7c5ihr30u3irctgptpatda7hio9414@reader80.eternal-september.
org: 

> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:38:20 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> 
>>Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
>>as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
>>I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
>>brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
>>how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".
> 
> It doesn't.  A squared-off, straight-line pi is P.  The L has a
> curled left leg and is derived from how medieval monks wrote
> lambda. 
> 
>>I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
>>one of which is to speak Russian.
> 
> It's not really all THAT hard a language.  Just remember to
> never open your mouth wide or draw your tongue back too far and
> you'll be able to handle the pronunciation -- it's designed to
> be spoken in stupidly cold weather.
> 
I wonder how much *design* went into that, rather than simple 
evolution. With Russians, one can never be sure. (I know a woman from 
St. Petersburg. She is the only one who has better "too cold for 
words in the winter" stories than I do. I suspect she's also the 
smartest person I know. Certainly the best educated, with multiple 
advanced degrees.)

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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#462093

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 5:11:40 PM UTC-5, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote in
> news:vcla7c5ihr30u3irctgptpatda7hio9414@reader80.eternal-september.
> org: 
> 
> > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:38:20 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
> >>as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
> >>I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
> >>brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
> >>how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".
> > 
> > It doesn't.  A squared-off, straight-line pi is P.  The L has a
> > curled left leg and is derived from how medieval monks wrote
> > lambda. 
> > 
> >>I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
> >>one of which is to speak Russian.
> > 
> > It's not really all THAT hard a language.  Just remember to
> > never open your mouth wide or draw your tongue back too far and
> > you'll be able to handle the pronunciation -- it's designed to
> > be spoken in stupidly cold weather.
> > 
> I wonder how much *design* went into that, rather than simple 
> evolution. With Russians, one can never be sure. (I know a woman from 
> St. Petersburg. She is the only one who has better "too cold for 
> words in the winter" stories than I do. I suspect she's also the 
> smartest person I know. Certainly the best educated, with multiple 
> advanced degrees.)
> 
> -- 
> Terry Austin
> 
> Vacation photos from Iceland: 
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
> 
> "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
>     -- David Bilek
> 
> Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Oh, puh-fucking-LEEZE, Terry; no one believes you actually know a woman.

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#462111

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#462061

On 1/10/2017 1:47 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:38:20 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same
>> as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
>> I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my
>> brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder
>> how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".
>
> It doesn't.  A squared-off, straight-line pi is P.  The L has a curled
> left leg and is derived from how medieval monks wrote lambda.
>
>> I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
>> one of which is to speak Russian.
>
> It's not really all THAT hard a language.  Just remember to never open
> your mouth wide or draw your tongue back too far and you'll be able to
> handle the pronunciation -- it's designed to be spoken in stupidly
> cold weather.
>
So all the hundred syllable names are there to blow enough warm air over 
your lips to keep them from freezing and falling off?

:)

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Winter 2016 survey began Dec 01 and will end Feb 28

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#462064

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 14:55:32 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 1/10/2017 1:47 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:38:20 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same
>>> as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
>>> I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my
>>> brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder
>>> how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".
>>
>> It doesn't.  A squared-off, straight-line pi is P.  The L has a curled
>> left leg and is derived from how medieval monks wrote lambda.
>>
>>> I respect greatly the achievements of Russian people,
>>> one of which is to speak Russian.
>>
>> It's not really all THAT hard a language.  Just remember to never open
>> your mouth wide or draw your tongue back too far and you'll be able to
>> handle the pronunciation -- it's designed to be spoken in stupidly
>> cold weather.
>>
>So all the hundred syllable names are there to blow enough warm air over 
>your lips to keep them from freezing and falling off?
>
>:)

Oh, don't get me started explaining Russian names.  (Which are usually
no more than a dozen syllables, really.)



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#462056

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
news:b30588c8-f769-42a6-b9ae-3e5526a2cc30@googlegroups.com: 

> Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
> as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
> I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
> brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
> how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".

I learned in Iceland that Höfn is prounced "hup(x)" where (x) is a 
phonetic I could not distinguish from the "p" sound at the end, which 
which isn't the "n" sound from Egnlish (which happens with a phonetic 
sound that isn't used in any language you learn before about the age 
of 5 or so). Or so the host told me at the  Nord Marina in 
Seyðisfjörður (who was the nicest - of a very nice group) of the 
people I dealt with there.

So, don't fear, you probably couldn't actually learn that 
pronunciation if you tried. Our brains aren't very good at rewiring 
themselves to that extent.

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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#462074

In article <b30588c8-f769-42a6-b9ae-3e5526a2cc30@googlegroups.com>,
 Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
 
> Google Groups in my web browser showed it the same 
> as the start of the word "Lunokhod" in Wikipedia.
> I'm afraid of accidentally learning more than my 
> brain can safely hold if I allow myself to wonder 
> how Russian letter Pi has the sound of English "L".

It's easier to stay sane when pondering such things if you keep in mind 
that cyrillic is a "created" alphabet - the fellow who cooked it up (He 
later became Saint Cyril, if I remember rightly, thus the name of the 
alphabet he created) basically just grabbed glyphs at random, without 
regard to what they might have been used for in the languages they came 
from, and assigned them to Russian phonemes. Prior to that, there simply 
wasn't any such thing as written Russian. On the plus side, at least 
cyrillic *IS* an alphabet - unlike, ferinstance, chinese ideograms or 
egyptian hieroglyphics - Once you figure out the letter-to-phoneme 
mapping, it's possible to at least know what kind of noise to make to 
say the letter when you see it. 

And that's not the only time such a thing has happened - try looking at  
some of the written versions of American Indian languages. Same thing 
happened with several of them - Some missionary or other came along and 
said "You guys need to have a written language if you don't want to be 
considered savages", and created one for them.

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#462085

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:38:59 -0800, Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net>
wrote:

>It's easier to stay sane when pondering such things if you keep in mind 
>that cyrillic is a "created" alphabet - the fellow who cooked it up (He 
>later became Saint Cyril, if I remember rightly, thus the name of the 
>alphabet he created) basically just grabbed glyphs at random, without 
>regard to what they might have been used for in the languages they came 
>from, and assigned them to Russian phonemes.

No.

First off, he was writing Old Church Slavonic, not Russian, which is
why Russian only uses thirty-three letters of the thirty-six in the
Cyrillic alphabet.  (Ukrainian uses thirty-four, if I recall correctly
-- definitely at least one more than Russian.)

Second, he started with the Byzantine Greek alphabet.  When that
didn't have a sound he needed, he looked at Latin.  If that didn't
have it either, he went to Hebrew (which is where all the SH/CH/ZH
letters came from).  Only then, if all three sources failed him, did
he make something up.  None of the letters were random.

> Prior to that, there simply 
>wasn't any such thing as written Russian. On the plus side, at least 
>cyrillic *IS* an alphabet - unlike, ferinstance, chinese ideograms or 
>egyptian hieroglyphics - Once you figure out the letter-to-phoneme 
>mapping, it's possible to at least know what kind of noise to make to 
>say the letter when you see it. 

In most Cyrillic-using languages, yeah, but not in Georgian; some of
the combinations in Georgian can't be pronounced by human tongues.
I'm guessing they've reassigned some of the letters to reflect
phonemes they needed that St. Cyril didn't include.  I've never met a
Georgian speaker I could ask.

>And that's not the only time such a thing has happened - try looking at  
>some of the written versions of American Indian languages. Same thing 
>happened with several of them - Some missionary or other came along and 
>said "You guys need to have a written language if you don't want to be 
>considered savages", and created one for them.

I dunno about "several."  Most written American Indian languages use
the Latin alphabet, though with diacritical marks as needed.

Cherokee has its own alphabet (well, syllabary, really), but that
wasn't invented by a missionary; it was invented by Sequoiah, who had
had the concept of writing explained to him, and saw how useful it
was, but who did not actually know how to read or write.  He made it
up from whole cloth, and did an amazingly good job of it.  The guy was
a genius.  But the symbols there really ARE random, so far as I know.




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