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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #452064 > unrolled thread
| Started by | William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-24 13:28 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-09-27 07:47 +0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 131 — 26 participants |
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OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:28 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 01:30 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-24 22:29 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 14:17 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 11:19 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-09-25 09:37 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 22:41 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-26 01:00 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 22:37 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 20:01 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 01:39 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:32 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:51 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-25 18:32 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles James Rau <jrau@beep.beep.com> - 2016-09-25 18:52 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 04:59 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-25 23:04 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-25 21:51 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:36 +0800
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 05:50 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-27 13:58 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 20:54 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-26 19:51 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 22:12 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-26 21:06 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-26 23:02 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:20 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 05:01 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:19 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:01 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:30 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 13:17 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-28 13:50 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 14:51 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-28 21:56 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-28 18:41 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 10:48 -0700
Opera (was Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-29 15:34 +0000
Re: Opera (was Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles) Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 13:24 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-28 17:41 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2016-09-26 04:45 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-26 01:15 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 00:06 -0600
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 02:31 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-26 05:08 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 14:25 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:04 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-27 03:42 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:38 +0800
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:57 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 10:59 +0200
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 05:22 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:17 +0200
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 14:07 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:08 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 20:39 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-26 01:00 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 05:55 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 15:44 -0700
Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-25 23:16 -0400
Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:57 -0700
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:29 -0400
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:39 -0700
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Brett Dunbar <brett@dimetrodon.me.uk> - 2016-09-30 20:20 +0100
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 13:15 -0700
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 14:16 -0700
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-30 16:57 -0400
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 08:19 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 13:45 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:04 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-01 09:54 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 17:11 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 14:04 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 15:05 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-10-02 06:47 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:30 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 11:29 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 10:52 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 20:39 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 17:02 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 21:51 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:31 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:45 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 20:30 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 01:10 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 06:51 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 13:07 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 17:39 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:32 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:46 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 01:07 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-03 13:15 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 13:06 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-10-01 18:03 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 19:25 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-01 13:52 -0600
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 16:13 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-01 14:23 -0600
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 22:22 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 19:19 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-10-01 22:33 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-02 02:16 -0400
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-02 04:15 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:32 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-10-01 21:48 +0000
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:09 -0700
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-01 17:13 +0000
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-01 10:57 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 19:28 +0000
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:47 -0400
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-10-02 06:52 -0400
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:35 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-10-02 09:42 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-03 14:54 -0500
Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-03 13:17 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-03 21:00 +0000
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-04 15:04 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-04 15:36 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-05 00:04 +0000
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-10-01 22:35 -0700
Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:37 +0000
Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 16:13 -0700
Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Brett Dunbar <brett@dimetrodon.me.uk> - 2016-09-26 09:25 +0100
Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:07 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-25 18:29 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 01:40 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:50 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d'Urbervilles nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2016-09-26 04:47 +0000
Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-26 08:17 +0800
Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:52 -0700
Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:47 +0800
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| From | William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-24 13:28 -0700 |
| Subject | OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com> |
Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she echoed Dorothy in some detail: "God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. Poor friggin’ Tess is raped, bears an illegitimate child and is viewed as “unpure” by her heart-love, the fickle Angel who is unable to see past his own twisted set of morals to see the richness and purity of Tess’s spirit. Then, after Tess has been driven to murder the man who raped her, we watch the hypocrite, Angel, open his eyes to see the purity of the woman he has judged so mercilessly. And if he had continued to live in his self-pitying remorse after Tess had been hanged for murder, perhaps I might’ve gotten some satisfaction from the story. But, oh no!! Angel gets to marry his virgin – Tess’s sister, who conveniently looks like Tess as well as being a virgin – whilst the real heroine gets hanged. Yecch! Oh yes, we all know he married the virgin upon Tess’s wishes to help her family. But, why didn’t he simply pay off the family to atone? To marry the virgin Liza-Lu is simply a continuation of the double standards and hypocrisy imposed on all women at the time, and Angel’s awakening is still biased to his own self-fulfilment. There, now that I’ve finally spelled that out – been carrying it for 35 years – maybe I can turn a kinder eye toward the wonderful Thomas Hardy." William Hyde
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 01:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oE1DJK.20AK@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452064 |
In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: >Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less >standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series >a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her >response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she >echoed Dorothy in some detail: > >"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. [schnipp] Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-24 22:29 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles |
| Message-ID | <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452083 |
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>,
>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less
>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series
>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her
>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she
>>echoed Dorothy in some detail:
>>
>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles.
>
>[schnipp]
>
>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at
>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure
>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English
>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not
>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and
>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist.
I am not challenging you, but why do you think that?
(You could be saving me from having to read it.)
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 14:17 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the dUrbervilles |
| Message-ID | <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452091 |
In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J >Heydt) wrote: > >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: >>> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. >> >>[schnipp] >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. > > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had finished his sport with Tess." But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 11:19 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452104 |
In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, > Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J > >Heydt) wrote: > > > >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, > >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less > >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series > >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her > >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she > >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: > >>> > >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. > >> > >>[schnipp] > >> > >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at > >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure > >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English > >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not > >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and > >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. > > > > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > > Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one > catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until > she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had > finished his sport with Tess." > > But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any > god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > > > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) > > Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I > believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to > write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, > you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the > Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so.
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| From | Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 09:37 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <0fabad9b-bed6-454f-b6fe-6205a3e84003@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452105 |
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:20:04 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, > > Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > > >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J > > >Heydt) wrote: > > >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, > > >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: [Hardy's thread-titular book stinks.] > > >>Agreed in spades. [Circumstances of reading] > > >>Hardy was a sadist. > > > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > > Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one > > catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until > > she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had > > finished his sport with Tess." > > > > But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any > > god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. When I was a teenager, I read <The Mayor of Casterbridge>. I don't remember exactly what I thought, and the notebook in which I was keeping a book log that year [1] is pretty certainly one of the things I lost in March, but I do remember that I was in awe, and although I never got up the guts to re-read it, I always thought I really *should*. Then I read <Jude the Obscure>. Which is pretty much the same thing as <Tess of the d'Urbervilles>, minus the effects of double standards as applied to women. (There are some applied to men in that book, though; Hardy was an equal-opportunity sadist.) I also very vaguely remember <Tess>, a movie I saw, on the big screen, at an impressionable age (though certainly not as early as 1979, when it apparently came out - probably not even in its first US release, according to Wikipedia 1980), and although it had beautiful scenery, I don't remember loving it as I did most of the few movies I saw in theatres that young. I figure maybe someday I'll read more of his earlier work - <Tess> and <Jude> are two of his last three novels, though he wasn't elderly when he stopped publishing fiction, he was just fed up with Victorian objections to his writing (which weren't *these* objections). So he's on just about my longest list, and given my age there's no reason to expect he'll actually move up, but he's there. However, I have no intention of *ever* reading <Tess>. > One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage > literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so > deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind > would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. In high school, I wound up taking "British Authors" but not "American Authors", and when we got to the 20th century I complained to my teacher that all the work was depressing, and there must be 20th century British writing that wasn't. To bolster my case, I pointed out that only half the British Nobel Prize winners in Literature were represented in our textbook. This is a little hard to reconstruct. I have to assume that Yeats and Eliot were there; I'm quite sure Galsworthy, Russell, and Churchill weren't; I'm having trouble remembering as to Shaw and Kipling; and that's an odd number, but I can't think I'd have used the list in that complaint if I'd excluded Yeats as Irish and the three in the book were Eliot, Shaw (also Irish anyway) and Kipling. (Yeah, Kipling can be depressing, but Shaw?) My teacher actually listened to that argument, though not to the main complaint. The reason I'm certain Churchill and Russell weren't in the book is that she ended up handing out mimeographs of Churchill's "My Early Life" and Russell's "Speculations and Reflections". Joe Bernstein [1] ObSFnally, that log also recorded my first reactions to John Crowley; I was in awe of <Engine Summer> too. -- Joe Bernstein, writer and tax preparer <joe@sfbooks.com>
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 22:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <oE30CM.12x7@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452110 |
In article <0fabad9b-bed6-454f-b6fe-6205a3e84003@googlegroups.com>, Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> wrote: >On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:20:04 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote: > >> In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > >> > In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, >> > Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > >> > >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J >> > >Heydt) wrote: > >> > >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, >> > >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: > >[Hardy's thread-titular book stinks.] > >> > >>Agreed in spades. >[Circumstances of reading] >> > >>Hardy was a sadist. > >> > > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > >> > Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one >> > catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until >> > she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had >> > finished his sport with Tess." >> > >> > But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any >> > god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > >When I was a teenager, I read <The Mayor of Casterbridge>. I don't >remember exactly what I thought, and the notebook in which I was >keeping a book log that year [1] is pretty certainly one of the >things I lost in March, but I do remember that I was in awe, and >although I never got up the guts to re-read it, I always thought I >really *should*. > >Then I read <Jude the Obscure>. Which is pretty much the same thing >as <Tess of the d'Urbervilles>, minus the effects of double standards >as applied to women. (There are some applied to men in that book, >though; Hardy was an equal-opportunity sadist.) > >I also very vaguely remember <Tess>, a movie I saw, on the big screen, >at an impressionable age (though certainly not as early as 1979, when >it apparently came out - probably not even in its first US release, >according to Wikipedia 1980), and although it had beautiful scenery, >I don't remember loving it as I did most of the few movies I saw in >theatres that young. > >I figure maybe someday I'll read more of his earlier work - <Tess> and ><Jude> are two of his last three novels, though he wasn't elderly when >he stopped publishing fiction, he was just fed up with Victorian >objections to his writing (which weren't *these* objections). So he's >on just about my longest list, and given my age there's no reason to >expect he'll actually move up, but he's there. However, I have no >intention of *ever* reading <Tess>. > >> One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage >> literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so >> deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind >> would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. > >In high school, I wound up taking "British Authors" but not "American >Authors", and when we got to the 20th century I complained to my >teacher that all the work was depressing, and there must be 20th >century British writing that wasn't. To bolster my case, I pointed >out that only half the British Nobel Prize winners in Literature were >represented in our textbook. > >This is a little hard to reconstruct. I have to assume that Yeats and >Eliot were there; I'm quite sure Galsworthy, Russell, and Churchill >weren't; I'm having trouble remembering as to Shaw and Kipling; and >that's an odd number, but I can't think I'd have used the list in that >complaint if I'd excluded Yeats as Irish and the three in the book >were Eliot, Shaw (also Irish anyway) and Kipling. (Yeah, Kipling can >be depressing, but Shaw?) And Eliot started out American. :) And while "The Waste Land" and "The Hollow Men" are bloody depressing (I loved them when I was a teenager), his Quartets aren't. > >My teacher actually listened to that argument, though not to the main >complaint. The reason I'm certain Churchill and Russell weren't in >the book is that she ended up handing out mimeographs of Churchill's >"My Early Life" and Russell's "Speculations and Reflections". > >Joe Bernstein > >[1] ObSFnally, that log also recorded my first reactions to John >Crowley; I was in awe of <Engine Summer> too. I've never been able to read him. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 01:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <3qahub5a7on76ofaueoee5b4ipnlk2qumr@reader80.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452121 |
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 22:41:10 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: >In article <0fabad9b-bed6-454f-b6fe-6205a3e84003@googlegroups.com>, >Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> wrote: >> >>[1] ObSFnally, that log also recorded my first reactions to John >>Crowley; I was in awe of <Engine Summer> too. > >I've never been able to read him. If you tried any of his later work and bounced, that doesn't surprise me. _Engine Summer_, though, is much more accessible than his others. -- My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 22:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <oE3079.12KL@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452105 |
In article <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org>, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... >> >> In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >> >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J >> >Heydt) wrote: >> > >> >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, >> >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less >> >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series >> >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her >> >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she >> >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: >> >>> >> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. >> >> >> >>[schnipp] >> >> >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at >> >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure >> >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English >> >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not >> >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and >> >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. >> > >> > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? >> >> Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one >> catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until >> she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had >> finished his sport with Tess." >> >> But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any >> god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. >> >> > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) >> >> Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I >> believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to >> write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, >> you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the >> Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) > >One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage >literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so >deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind >would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. Damfino. If I were teaching an introductory class in English literature (which God forbid), I would start them off with a couple of the reminiscences of Gerald Durrell: _My Family and Other Animals_ and so on. The man's ability to describe the world around him (not only the animals he found in it) is remarkable. Then, for the second semester, I'd give them his elder brother, Lawrence Durrell's, Alexandria Quartet, a series of novels separated in three dimensions of space (well, POV) and one of time. The characters have various kinds of trouble, including World War II, but the last volume resolves on an upbeat that puts the whole quartet into perspective. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 20:01 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <MPG.32522f77369a716798a5a4@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452120 |
In article <oE3079.12KL@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > In article <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org>, > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > >In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > >> > >> In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, > >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > >> >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J > >> >Heydt) wrote: > >> > > >> >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, > >> >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less > >> >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series > >> >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her > >> >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she > >> >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: > >> >>> > >> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. > >> >> > >> >>[schnipp] > >> >> > >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at > >> >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure > >> >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English > >> >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not > >> >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and > >> >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. > >> > > >> > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > >> > >> Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one > >> catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until > >> she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had > >> finished his sport with Tess." > >> > >> But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any > >> god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > >> > >> > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) > >> > >> Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I > >> believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to > >> write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, > >> you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the > >> Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) > > > >One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage > >literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so > >deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind > >would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. > > Damfino. > > If I were teaching an introductory class in English literature (which > God forbid), I would start them off with a couple of the > reminiscences of Gerald Durrell: _My Family and Other Animals_ > and so on. The man's ability to describe the world around him > (not only the animals he found in it) is remarkable. I've added that to my Kindle (note--for some reason it was a pre-order, won't be delivered until mid-October). There seems to be a TV series . . . > Then, for the second semester, I'd give them his elder brother, > Lawrence Durrell's, Alexandria Quartet, a series of novels > separated in three dimensions of space (well, POV) and one of > time. The characters have various kinds of trouble, including > World War II, but the last volume resolves on an upbeat that puts > the whole quartet into perspective. Let's see how I like the first one.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 01:39 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <oE38Lp.1I4F@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452125 |
In article <MPG.32522f77369a716798a5a4@news.eternal-september.org>, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >In article <oE3079.12KL@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... >> >> In article <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org>, >> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >> >In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... >> >> >> >> In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, >> >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >> >> >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J >> >> >Heydt) wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, >> >> >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less >> >> >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series >> >> >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her >> >> >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she >> >> >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. >> >> >> >> >> >>[schnipp] >> >> >> >> >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at >> >> >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure >> >> >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English >> >> >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not >> >> >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and >> >> >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. >> >> > >> >> > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? >> >> >> >> Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one >> >> catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until >> >> she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had >> >> finished his sport with Tess." >> >> >> >> But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any >> >> god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. >> >> >> >> > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) >> >> >> >> Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I >> >> believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to >> >> write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, >> >> you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the >> >> Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) >> > >> >One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage >> >literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so >> >deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind >> >would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. >> >> Damfino. >> >> If I were teaching an introductory class in English literature (which >> God forbid), I would start them off with a couple of the >> reminiscences of Gerald Durrell: _My Family and Other Animals_ >> and so on. The man's ability to describe the world around him >> (not only the animals he found in it) is remarkable. > >I've added that to my Kindle (note--for some reason it was a pre-order, >won't be delivered until mid-October). There seems to be a TV series . >. . Oooh, cool. > >> Then, for the second semester, I'd give them his elder brother, >> Lawrence Durrell's, Alexandria Quartet, a series of novels >> separated in three dimensions of space (well, POV) and one of >> time. The characters have various kinds of trouble, including >> World War II, but the last volume resolves on an upbeat that puts >> the whole quartet into perspective. > >Let's see how I like the first one. OK. Practically spoiler-free description: first volume is a young man (who hopes to be a writer)'s account of some time he spent in Alexandria, including his affairs with various women and other stuff that went on. That's _Justine._ Having finished his MS, he sends it to a friend in Alexandria, who sends it back full of interlinear comments, mostly amounting to "You're completely wrong, it was nothing like that," covering the entire matter again from a different viewpoint. That's _Balthasar._ The third volume pulls back to the viewpoint(s) of several characters the reader has hardly seen before, in mixed tight-third person, and we see what may be what *really* was going on. That's _Mountolive._ The fourth volume moves forward in time, it's now into World War II, and we find out what happened next. That's _Clea._ If you read them at all, you do really need to read them in order. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 12:32 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <fc1db0e8-d2bb-40c7-8349-bfe2eb6855ae@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452125 |
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:01:54 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote: > In article <oE3079.12KL@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > > > In article <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org>, > > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > > >In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > >> > > >> In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, > > >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > > >> >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J > > >> >Heydt) wrote: > > >> > > > >> >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, > > >> >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less > > >> >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series > > >> >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her > > >> >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she > > >> >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. > > >> >> > > >> >>[schnipp] > > >> >> > > >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at > > >> >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure > > >> >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English > > >> >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not > > >> >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and > > >> >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. > > >> > > > >> > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > > >> > > >> Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one > > >> catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until > > >> she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had > > >> finished his sport with Tess." > > >> > > >> But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any > > >> god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > > >> > > >> > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) > > >> > > >> Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I > > >> believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to > > >> write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, > > >> you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the > > >> Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) > > > > > >One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage > > >literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so > > >deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind > > >would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. > > > > Damfino. > > > > If I were teaching an introductory class in English literature (which > > God forbid), I would start them off with a couple of the > > reminiscences of Gerald Durrell: _My Family and Other Animals_ > > and so on. The man's ability to describe the world around him > > (not only the animals he found in it) is remarkable. > > I've added that to my Kindle (note--for some reason it was a pre-order, > won't be delivered until mid-October). There seems to be a TV series . The TV series was remarkably and disturbingly short. There are three related books - MFAOA, "Birds, Beasts, and Relatives", and "The Garden of the Gods". All set in Corfu in the 1930s, all, to me, a delight. The stories in "Fillet of Place" also feature Durrell and his family, but don't all take place in Corfu. > > Then, for the second semester, I'd give them his elder brother, > > Lawrence Durrell's, Alexandria Quartet, a series of novels > > separated in three dimensions of space (well, POV) and one of > > time. The characters have various kinds of trouble, including > > World War II, but the last volume resolves on an upbeat that puts > > the whole quartet into perspective. > > Let's see how I like the first one. It is quite possible to like one and not like the other. Aside from being written by brothers, they have no connection. FWIW I really like "The Alexandria Quartet", but if I need to choose one or the other for a comfort read, it would be the Corfu books (in which Larry figures largely as a character). Both brothers wrote a great deal. If you like Gerald's work, there are twenty or thirty other books out there, the earlier ones about his expeditions to gather wildlife, the later about his running of a zoo and conservation society. Lawrence was more of a Serious Writer and somewhat less prolific. I've not read much beyond the Quartet. William Hyde
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| From | Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 13:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <919464cc-d055-4c20-af65-639d446443a3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452201 |
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 3:32:14 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote: > On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:01:54 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote: > > In article <oE3079.12KL@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > > > > > In article <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org>, > > > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > > >> > > > >> In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>, > > > >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > > > >> >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J > > > >> >Heydt) wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>, > > > >> >>William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>>Every week the Globe and Mail interviews an author with a more or less > > > >> >>>standard set of questions (I posted one comment on Dune from this series > > > >> >>>a few months ago). This week's writer is Donna Morrissey, and in her > > > >> >>>response to the question "What agreed-upon classic do you despise?" she > > > >> >>>echoed Dorothy in some detail: > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>>"God forgive me, but Tess of the d’Urbervilles. > > > >> >> > > > >> >>[schnipp] > > > >> >> > > > >> >>Agreed in spades. I had a friend once who was an art student at > > > >> >>an art school. She made great ceramics. But for some obscure > > > >> >>reason the faculty demanded that she also take a class in English > > > >> >>literature, and _Tess_ was what she was assigned. She could not > > > >> >>deal, so for pure friendship's sake I read the damn thing and > > > >> >>ghosted her book report. Hardy was a sadist. > > > >> > > > > >> > I am not challenging you, but why do you think that? > > > >> > > > >> Well, read the description upthread. The character is handed one > > > >> catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until > > > >> she dies. And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had > > > >> finished his sport with Tess." > > > >> > > > >> But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any > > > >> god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work. > > > >> > > > >> > (You could be saving me from having to read it.) > > > >> > > > >> Oh, I urgently recommend that you never read it. You are, I > > > >> believe, an adult who has finished school, and will never have to > > > >> write a book report on it. (If under some strange circumstances, > > > >> you did have to write a book report on it, fergoshsake get the > > > >> Cliff Notes or something and fake it.) > > > > > > > >One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage > > > >literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so > > > >deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind > > > >would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so. > > > > > > Damfino. > > > > > > If I were teaching an introductory class in English literature (which > > > God forbid), I would start them off with a couple of the > > > reminiscences of Gerald Durrell: _My Family and Other Animals_ > > > and so on. The man's ability to describe the world around him > > > (not only the animals he found in it) is remarkable. > > > > I've added that to my Kindle (note--for some reason it was a pre-order, > > won't be delivered until mid-October). There seems to be a TV series . > > The TV series was remarkably and disturbingly short. > > There are three related books - MFAOA, "Birds, Beasts, and Relatives", and "The Garden of the Gods". All set in Corfu in the 1930s, all, to me, a delight. The stories in "Fillet of Place" also feature Durrell and his family, but don't all take place in Corfu. > > > > Then, for the second semester, I'd give them his elder brother, > > > Lawrence Durrell's, Alexandria Quartet, a series of novels > > > separated in three dimensions of space (well, POV) and one of > > > time. The characters have various kinds of trouble, including > > > World War II, but the last volume resolves on an upbeat that puts > > > the whole quartet into perspective. > > > > Let's see how I like the first one. > > It is quite possible to like one and not like the other. Aside from being written by brothers, they have no connection. FWIW I really like "The Alexandria Quartet", but if I need to choose one or the other for a comfort read, it would be the Corfu books (in which Larry figures largely as a character). > > Both brothers wrote a great deal. If you like Gerald's work, there are twenty or thirty other books out there, the earlier ones about his expeditions to gather wildlife, the later about his running of a zoo and conservation society. > > Lawrence was more of a Serious Writer and somewhat less prolific. I've not read much beyond the Quartet. > > William Hyde Gerard Durrell is a name I haven't heard in a while, but was a favorite author of mine when I was in school. His gig, for many years, was as an exotic wildlife collector for zoos; he'd set off with a small entourage to (mostly tropical) wild places, and spend a few weeks or a month catching critters, to take home alive. Many of his books descriptions of these expeditions, described with humor, compassion for both the animals and the people of the area, and a clear love of his work. The 'autobiographical' books of his childhood on Corfu are not his usual topic. Later he founded a zoo on Jersey, and got more books out of that. I never met him, but would have liked to. pt
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 18:32 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <ghugublf8suosni83us3nntamobpn8qtuo@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452105 |
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:19:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage
>literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so
>deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind
>would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so.
I remember literature in high school. In various classes, we
covered three of Shakespeare's four tragedies and discussed the
fourth. Did we cover any of Shakespeare's comedies? No.
Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification. My
particular button for this is math.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | James Rau <jrau@beep.beep.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 18:52 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <0evgubd4amm82ceu12rsjo3qp02t5ntrq4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452136 |
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:32:34 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: > Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification. My >particular button for this is math. I have come to believe, after reviewing this thread, that my high school English Lit. teacher must have been a saint. Instead of making us read Shakespeare (and the other dry, dull, boring and depressing titles/authors listed here), she introduced us to Twain, Bradbury, Orwell and Asimov (and a host of other 'alternative' writers). May the gods bless her, wherever she is... James Rau
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 04:59 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <oE3Hvy.1z69@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452142 |
In article <0evgubd4amm82ceu12rsjo3qp02t5ntrq4@4ax.com>, James Rau <jrau@beep.beep.com> wrote: >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:32:34 -0700, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> >wrote: > >> Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification. My >>particular button for this is math. > >I have come to believe, after reviewing this thread, that my high >school English Lit. teacher must have been a saint. Instead of making >us read Shakespeare (and the other dry, dull, boring and depressing >titles/authors listed here), she introduced us to Twain, Bradbury, >Orwell and Asimov (and a host of other 'alternative' writers). Oh, you lucked out. I got (junior year of high school) an American Literature teacher who *loathed* SF/F. He made us read Emerson's essays, and Cather's _My Antonia_, for instance, which I found incredibly dull, and he retoreted, "But I bet it's better than any SF you've ever read." I had my revenge, though. (Those who've heard this story before, hit 'n' now.) The school published an annual literary magaxine, whereof he was the editor. I got a couple of pieces into it, but the first place was won by a guy who submitted a story about a native dancer whose rain dances always made it rain. So her grandfather taught her a different dance, a war dance, and over the noise of the patrons fighting in the night club one could hear the roar of sirens all over the city. It was an adequate sort of story, and I owned the copy of either _Amazine_ or _Fantastic_ in which it had originally appeared. I turned the magazine over to the teacher and you never heard such a silence. (It wasn't even that good a story, it could never have sold to _F&SF_.) > >May the gods bless her, wherever she is... Amen. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 23:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <nsa38p$q3q$1@panix2.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #452136 |
In article <ghugublf8suosni83us3nntamobpn8qtuo@4ax.com>,
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> said:
> I remember literature in high school. In various classes, we
> covered three of Shakespeare's four tragedies and discussed the
> fourth. Did we cover any of Shakespeare's comedies? No.
>
> Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification.
> My particular button for this is math.
Leaving aside my Shakespeare deafness[1], I think there may be a
real reason for that, to wit, "Humor is _such_ a subjective thing,
don't you think?"
It goes like this: you give to an intelligent enough teenager who's
willing to learn a tragedy and tell him that it's tragic, even if he
wasn't really moved by it at all he'll accept that okay, maybe it
actually is tragic and I'm just not getting it. But if you give him
a *comedy* and tell him it's funny, and he doesn't think it is, he
won't think okay, maybe it _is_ funny and I'm just not getting
it. He'll think "No it isn't. I've seen funny, and it was nothing
like this."
And then he'll spend the rest of his high school years, and possibly
the rest of his life, doing his best to stay way the hell away from
that entire field of alleged humor.
-----------
*1: It's like tone deafness -- some people
can't hear music; I can't hear Shakespeare[2].
*2: Or rap music. These two things may be related.
-- wds
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-25 21:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <4a3523b9-0ae0-4b76-a1df-07b906f96ed0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452146 |
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 11:05:05 PM UTC-4, William December Starr wrote: > In article <ghugublf8suosni83us3nntamobpn8qtuo@4ax.com>, > Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> said: > > > I remember literature in high school. In various classes, we > > covered three of Shakespeare's four tragedies and discussed the > > fourth. Did we cover any of Shakespeare's comedies? No. > > > > Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification. > > My particular button for this is math. > > Leaving aside my Shakespeare deafness[1], I think there may be a > real reason for that, to wit, "Humor is _such_ a subjective thing, > don't you think?" > > It goes like this: you give to an intelligent enough teenager who's > willing to learn a tragedy and tell him that it's tragic, even if he > wasn't really moved by it at all he'll accept that okay, maybe it > actually is tragic and I'm just not getting it. But if you give him > a *comedy* and tell him it's funny, and he doesn't think it is, he > won't think okay, maybe it _is_ funny and I'm just not getting > it. He'll think "No it isn't. I've seen funny, and it was nothing > like this." > > And then he'll spend the rest of his high school years, and possibly > the rest of his life, doing his best to stay way the hell away from > that entire field of alleged humor. > We did Shakespeare in my high school. "Romeo and Juliet," "MacBeth," "Julius Caesar" and "Hamlet," tragedies all. But we also did Oliver Goldsmith's "She Stoops to Conquer." It may be funny, played, but it certainly wasn't on the page. To get half the jokes you had to read the footnotes, and you know what they say about explaining a joke. Still, comedies of manners like thar are the ancestors of the "situation comedy." Some of those on TV still swipe plots from it. I remember telling the English Lit nun that, if books and stories, when new, were published with "literature questions" at the end of every chapter or selection, nobody would buy them. > ----------- > *1: It's like tone deafness -- some people > can't hear music; I can't hear Shakespeare[2]. > > *2: Or rap music. These two things may be related. Rhyme schemes? Kevin R
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| From | Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 07:36 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <e4tpneFs2o3U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452159 |
On 26/09/2016 12:51 PM, Kevrob wrote: > On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 11:05:05 PM UTC-4, William December Starr wrote: >> In article <ghugublf8suosni83us3nntamobpn8qtuo@4ax.com>, >> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> said: >> >>> I remember literature in high school. In various classes, we >>> covered three of Shakespeare's four tragedies and discussed the >>> fourth. Did we cover any of Shakespeare's comedies? No. >>> >>> Anything taught in school seems to be subject to borification. >>> My particular button for this is math. >> >> Leaving aside my Shakespeare deafness[1], I think there may be a >> real reason for that, to wit, "Humor is _such_ a subjective thing, >> don't you think?" >> >> It goes like this: you give to an intelligent enough teenager who's >> willing to learn a tragedy and tell him that it's tragic, even if he >> wasn't really moved by it at all he'll accept that okay, maybe it >> actually is tragic and I'm just not getting it. But if you give him >> a *comedy* and tell him it's funny, and he doesn't think it is, he >> won't think okay, maybe it _is_ funny and I'm just not getting >> it. He'll think "No it isn't. I've seen funny, and it was nothing >> like this." >> >> And then he'll spend the rest of his high school years, and possibly >> the rest of his life, doing his best to stay way the hell away from >> that entire field of alleged humor. >> > > We did Shakespeare in my high school. "Romeo and Juliet," "MacBeth," > "Julius Caesar" and "Hamlet," tragedies all. But we also did > Oliver Goldsmith's "She Stoops to Conquer." It may be funny, > played, but it certainly wasn't on the page. To get half the > jokes you had to read the footnotes, and you know what they > say about explaining a joke. Still, comedies of manners like > thar are the ancestors of the "situation comedy." Some of those > on TV still swipe plots from it. > > I remember telling the English Lit nun that, if books and > stories, when new, were published with "literature questions" > at the end of every chapter or selection, nobody would buy them. I have come across books exactly like that - all from American publishers. -- Robert B. born England a long time ago; Western Australia since 1972
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| From | David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 05:50 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles |
| Message-ID | <wNKdnfISPap203fKnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #452224 |
On 2016-09-26, Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote: > On 26/09/2016 12:51 PM, Kevrob wrote: >> I remember telling the English Lit nun that, if books and >> stories, when new, were published with "literature questions" >> at the end of every chapter or selection, nobody would buy them. > > I have come across books exactly like that - all from American publishers. So have I; they tend to be either children's or 'young adult', presumably so that someone can point at it and say "LOOK! it's edumacational! we thought of the chillldrunnn!". Dave -- \/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> website on VIC is down, probably for good - oh well/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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