Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #452121

Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles

Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written
From djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles
Message-ID <oE30CM.12x7@kithrup.com> (permalink)
Date 2016-09-25 22:41 +0000
References <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com> <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com> <MPG.3251b52f2b4eafec98a59d@news.eternal-september.org> <0fabad9b-bed6-454f-b6fe-6205a3e84003@googlegroups.com>
Organization Kithrup Enterprises, Ld.

Show all headers | View raw

In article <0fabad9b-bed6-454f-b6fe-6205a3e84003@googlegroups.com>,
Joe Bernstein  <joe@sfbooks.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:20:04 AM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article <oE2D1o.20FD@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says...
>
>> > In article <p3oeubpvcg4hqoko9hve0sg1id77de62ok@4ax.com>,
>> > Gene Wirchenko  <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> > >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 01:30:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> > >Heydt) wrote:
>
>> > >>In article <a8f125ff-360a-412b-8046-076512ae13b4@googlegroups.com>,
>> > >>William Hyde  <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>[Hardy's thread-titular book stinks.]
>
>> > >>Agreed in spades.  
>[Circumstances of reading]
>> > >>Hardy was a sadist.
>
>> > >     I am not challenging you, but why do you think that?
>
>> > Well, read the description upthread.  The character is handed one
>> > catastrophe after another from the moment she is introduced until
>> > she dies.  And then, says Hardy, "The Prince of the Immortals had
>> > finished his sport with Tess."
>> > 
>> > But because she is a fictional character, it was not God (or any
>> > god) that did that to her; it was Thomas Hardy, all his own work.
>
>When I was a teenager, I read <The Mayor of Casterbridge>.  I don't 
>remember exactly what I thought, and the notebook in which I was 
>keeping a book log that year [1] is pretty certainly one of the 
>things I lost in March, but I do remember that I was in awe, and 
>although I never got up the guts to re-read it, I always thought I 
>really *should*.
>
>Then I read <Jude the Obscure>.  Which is pretty much the same thing 
>as <Tess of the d'Urbervilles>, minus the effects of double standards 
>as applied to women.  (There are some applied to men in that book, 
>though; Hardy was an equal-opportunity sadist.)
>
>I also very vaguely remember <Tess>, a movie I saw, on the big screen, 
>at an impressionable age (though certainly not as early as 1979, when 
>it apparently came out - probably not even in its first US release, 
>according to Wikipedia 1980), and although it had beautiful scenery, 
>I don't remember loving it as I did most of the few movies I saw in 
>theatres that young.
>
>I figure maybe someday I'll read more of his earlier work - <Tess> and 
><Jude> are two of his last three novels, though he wasn't elderly when 
>he stopped publishing fiction, he was just fed up with Victorian 
>objections to his writing (which weren't *these* objections).  So he's 
>on just about my longest list, and given my age there's no reason to 
>expect he'll actually move up, but he's there.  However, I have no 
>intention of *ever* reading <Tess>.
>
>> One does wonder, sometimes, whether there is a conspiracy to discourage 
>> literacy by convincing students that anything contained in a book is so 
>> deadly dull and dreary and depresssing that nobody in their right mind 
>> would dare open the covers of same unless forced to do so.
>
>In high school, I wound up taking "British Authors" but not "American 
>Authors", and when we got to the 20th century I complained to my 
>teacher that all the work was depressing, and there must be 20th 
>century British writing that wasn't.  To bolster my case, I pointed 
>out that only half the British Nobel Prize winners in Literature were 
>represented in our textbook.
>
>This is a little hard to reconstruct.  I have to assume that Yeats and 
>Eliot were there; I'm quite sure Galsworthy, Russell, and Churchill 
>weren't; I'm having trouble remembering as to Shaw and Kipling; and 
>that's an odd number, but I can't think I'd have used the list in that 
>complaint if I'd excluded Yeats as Irish and the three in the book 
>were Eliot, Shaw (also Irish anyway) and Kipling.  (Yeah, Kipling can 
>be depressing, but Shaw?)

And Eliot started out American.  :)  And while "The Waste Land"
and "The Hollow Men" are bloody depressing (I loved them when I
was a teenager), his Quartets aren't.
>
>My teacher actually listened to that argument, though not to the main 
>complaint.  The reason I'm certain Churchill and Russell weren't in 
>the book is that she ended up handing out mimeographs of Churchill's 
>"My Early Life" and Russell's "Speculations and Reflections".
>
>Joe Bernstein
>
>[1] ObSFnally, that log also recorded my first reactions to John 
>Crowley; I was in awe of <Engine Summer> too.

I've never been able to read him.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

Back to rec.arts.sf.written | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 13:28 -0700
  Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 01:30 +0000
    Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-24 22:29 -0700
      Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 14:17 +0000
        Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 11:19 -0400
          Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-09-25 09:37 -0700
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 22:41 +0000
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-26 01:00 -0400
          Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 22:37 +0000
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 20:01 -0400
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 01:39 +0000
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:32 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:51 -0700
          Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-25 18:32 -0700
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles James Rau <jrau@beep.beep.com> - 2016-09-25 18:52 -0700
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 04:59 +0000
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-25 23:04 -0400
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-25 21:51 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:36 +0800
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 05:50 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-27 13:58 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 20:54 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-26 19:51 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 22:12 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-26 21:06 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-26 23:02 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:20 -0700
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 05:01 +0000
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:19 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:01 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:30 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 13:17 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-28 13:50 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 14:51 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-28 21:56 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-28 18:41 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 10:48 -0700
                Opera (was Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-29 15:34 +0000
                Re: Opera (was Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles) Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 13:24 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-28 17:41 -0400
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2016-09-26 04:45 +0000
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-26 01:15 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 00:06 -0600
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 02:31 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-26 05:08 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 14:25 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:04 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-27 03:42 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:38 +0800
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:57 -0700
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 10:59 +0200
              Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 05:22 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:17 +0200
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 14:07 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:08 -0400
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 20:39 -0400
          Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-26 01:00 -0700
            Re: OT: Tess of the d?Urbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 05:55 -0500
        Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 15:44 -0700
          Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-25 23:16 -0400
            Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:57 -0700
              Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-26 21:29 -0400
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 12:39 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Brett Dunbar <brett@dimetrodon.me.uk> - 2016-09-30 20:20 +0100
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 13:15 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 14:16 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-30 16:57 -0400
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 08:19 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 13:45 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:04 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-01 09:54 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 17:11 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 14:04 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 15:05 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-10-02 06:47 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:30 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 11:29 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 10:52 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 20:39 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 17:02 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 21:51 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:31 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:45 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 20:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 01:10 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 06:51 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 13:07 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 17:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:32 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:46 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 01:07 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-03 13:15 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-03 13:06 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-10-01 18:03 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 19:25 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-01 13:52 -0600
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 16:13 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-01 14:23 -0600
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 22:22 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 19:19 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-10-01 22:33 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-02 02:16 -0400
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-02 04:15 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:32 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-10-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:09 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-01 17:13 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-01 10:57 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 19:28 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d?rbervilles "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:47 -0400
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-10-02 06:52 -0400
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:35 +0000
                Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-10-02 09:42 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-03 14:54 -0500
                Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-03 13:17 -0700
                Re: OT: Tess of the díUrbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-03 21:00 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-04 15:04 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-04 15:36 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-05 00:04 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-10-01 22:35 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:37 +0000
                Re: Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 16:13 -0700
          Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles Brett Dunbar <brett@dimetrodon.me.uk> - 2016-09-26 09:25 +0100
            Re: Re: OT: Tess of the d旦rbervilles William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 13:07 -0700
        Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-25 18:29 -0700
          Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 01:40 +0000
            Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:50 -0700
        Re: OT: Tess of the d'Urbervilles nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2016-09-26 04:47 +0000
    Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-26 08:17 +0800
      Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:52 -0700
        Re: OT: Tess of the d’Urbervilles Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:47 +0800

csiph-web