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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #423869 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Ronald Bruck <rbruck@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-09-29 17:53 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-10-03 16:39 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 153 — 39 participants |
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Can anyone remember...? Ronald Bruck <rbruck@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 17:53 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-09-30 01:31 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Adamastor Glace Mortimer <nospam@no.invalid> - 2015-10-02 18:09 +0200
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-02 16:24 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-10-02 14:43 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-02 22:17 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-02 18:56 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-02 20:36 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 16:06 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 02:24 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 23:08 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 05:29 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:35 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 23:19 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-02 23:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-10-03 00:23 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-03 10:09 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-03 08:59 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:39 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 21:49 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 22:53 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:16 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 09:59 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:30 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:41 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 15:10 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-10-07 14:50 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-07 13:58 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-07 07:21 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-08 04:36 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-08 07:40 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-07 18:20 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:22 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-08 02:55 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-09 02:03 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-09 19:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-10 08:17 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-07 23:15 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-08 04:41 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:29 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-08 08:24 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-08 07:31 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-08 00:19 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 18:26 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 16:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 13:24 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 17:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:37 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 10:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 15:47 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 17:57 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-04 09:25 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:32 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 10:52 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-10-04 21:58 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) - 2015-10-05 03:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 00:10 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 05:31 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-06 19:48 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-06 21:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 09:27 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-07 11:50 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 13:49 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:52 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 19:10 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-05 08:14 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:41 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 18:37 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 15:34 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 02:38 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-04 03:38 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:26 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:19 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2015-10-04 15:26 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 16:20 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-04 10:46 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-05 04:30 -0500
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 08:26 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-04 12:54 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 13:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:37 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:43 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 18:12 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 22:06 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-04 15:08 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-10-05 17:18 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-07 07:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-06 20:11 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-07 04:26 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-04 15:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-10-13 16:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-03 09:09 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 13:54 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 11:24 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:35 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 17:27 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:28 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 14:47 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 07:22 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 13:20 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 13:51 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:54 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2015-10-05 11:38 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-05 11:56 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-05 14:35 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-10-05 23:08 +0100
Re: Can anyone remember...? Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 01:03 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 09:39 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 16:59 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:49 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 14:42 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 21:51 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-03 15:32 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:38 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 16:48 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan) - 2015-10-03 22:29 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-03 06:31 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 14:57 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-03 16:19 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 18:50 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 19:14 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? - Slight thread drift BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-10-04 13:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-10-13 16:15 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 10:33 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-13 13:25 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 17:57 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:45 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-05 11:54 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-06 01:10 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 22:30 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-10-03 00:30 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 06:53 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-03 14:37 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-04 06:34 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-10-04 15:04 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-04 21:57 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-02 23:58 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 15:08 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-02 23:52 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-03 15:10 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? patmpowers@gmail.com - 2015-10-05 08:34 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con> - 2015-09-29 19:07 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-09-30 13:42 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-10-01 03:25 +0000
Re: Can anyone remember...? Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 19:22 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 23:03 -0400
Re: Can anyone remember...? David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-09-29 21:15 -0600
Re: Can anyone remember...? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-09-29 22:20 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-09-30 13:46 -0700
Re: Can anyone remember...? "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-03 16:39 +0000
Page 5 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 13:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <muroqj$c2m$1@panix3.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424138 |
In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: >On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: >> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: >>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: >>> >>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. >>> >>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking >>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for >>> some stories. :) >> >> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a useful weapon, >> AND takes out their research labs to boot! >> >> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >> > Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? -- wds
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| From | BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 13:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mus2s7$f40$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #424153 |
On 10/4/15 10:49 AM, William December Starr wrote: > In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, > Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: > >> On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: >>> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: >>>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. >>>> >>>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking >>>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for >>>> some stories. :) >>> >>> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a useful weapon, >>> AND takes out their research labs to boot! >>> >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >>> >> Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." > > Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? > > -- wds > Well, for Hazmat, nothing does come before that. We have a rule of thumb, if you can't cover the scene with your thumb, you are too close. -- Dave Scruggs Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 21:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nvptp4.Jtn@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #424153 |
In article <muroqj$c2m$1@panix3.panix.com>, William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote: >In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, >Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: > >>On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: >>> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: >>>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. >>>> >>>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking >>>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for >>>> some stories. :) >>> >>> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a useful weapon, >>> AND takes out their research labs to boot! >>> >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >>> >> Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." > >Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? Maybe you back away *while* contemplating what you've just been asked to trust? -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress. Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 18:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.307b6dbc675d402e989b96@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #424175 |
In article <nvptp4.Jtn@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... > > In article <muroqj$c2m$1@panix3.panix.com>, > William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote: > >In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, > >Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: > > > >>On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: > >>> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: > >>>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. > >>>> > >>>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking > >>>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for > >>>> some stories. :) > >>> > >>> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a useful weapon, > >>> AND takes out their research labs to boot! > >>> > >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away > >>> > >> Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." > > > >Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? > > Maybe you back away *while* contemplating what you've just been > asked to trust? While I am in principle opposed to allowing a suspect entity to perform its own compliance inspections, under this circumstance I would make an exception.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 22:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nvpuqr.LpB@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #424178 |
In article <MPG.307b6dbc675d402e989b96@news.eternal-september.org>, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >In article <nvptp4.Jtn@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says... >> >> In article <muroqj$c2m$1@panix3.panix.com>, >> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote: >> >In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, >> >Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: >> > >> >>On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: >> >>> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: >> >>>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. >> >>>> >> >>>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking >> >>>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for >> >>>> some stories. :) >> >>> >> >>> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a >useful weapon, >> >>> AND takes out their research labs to boot! >> >>> >> >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >> >>> >> >> Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." >> > >> >Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? >> >> Maybe you back away *while* contemplating what you've just been >> asked to trust? > >While I am in principle opposed to allowing a suspect entity to perform >its own compliance inspections, under this circumstance I would make an >exception. Well, if the suspect object blows up in the subject entity's face, you can inform his/her successor that the object has failed its tests. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress. Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
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| From | Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 15:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5611a350$0$1649$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> |
| In reply to | #424153 |
On 10/4/2015 10:49 AM, William December Starr wrote: > In article <56114537$0$1719$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, > Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> said: > >> On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: >>> On 2015-10-03, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: >>>> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. >>>> >>>> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking >>>> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for >>>> some stories. :) >>> >>> Or if you leak how to make it to your _enemies_, then it's a useful weapon, >>> AND takes out their research labs to boot! >>> >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >>> >> Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." > > Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? > Good point. -- Even Confucius complained about the younger generation's music.
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| From | Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-05 17:18 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <m28u7gdhv3.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org> |
| In reply to | #424153 |
begin fnord wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) writes: > Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? "Look behind you; you may be standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon." (Not facetious. People have died that way.) -- Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed." - Associated Press
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| From | wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-07 07:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mv3134$rej$1@panix3.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #424214 |
In article <m28u7gdhv3.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> said: > wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) writes: > >> Why does _anything_ come before "back away"? > > "Look behind you; you may be standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon." > > (Not facetious. People have died that way.) Yeah, for example I remember this from back in May: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4d1c51b829ac493e8bf29f4375bed5e1/tourist-taking-picture-tumbles-yellowstone-park-canyon The only good news for the man (apart from, you know, survival) is "whose name has not been released." In full: MAMMOTH HOT SPRINGS, Wyo. (AP) Rangers in Yellowstone National Park have rescued a New York tourist who stumbled backward into a canyon while trying to take a picture. A statement released Monday says the 71-year-old man tumbled about 25 feet on May 10 before he stopped his fall by bracing his body and feet against a small crevice in the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. Two park rangers threw the man a rope that they secured to a tree and a sign. A park rescue team then pulled the man back to the rim using ropes and pulleys. Officials say the man was extremely lucky that he stopped in the crevice because he was at the top of a 200-foot drop. The man, whose name has not been released, was treated for a possible hip injury. (I'm guessing that this has happened a non-zero number of times on aircraft carriers too.) -- wds
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-06 20:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <59391bhdmsp6olgkilu93kf2iaejoggeho@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #424138 |
On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 08:26:47 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote:
[snip]
>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away
>>
>Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify."
I think that the "back away" should be first.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-07 04:26 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <d7kaa6FgtpjU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #424244 |
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote: >On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 08:26:47 -0700, Dimensional Traveler ><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote: > >>On 10/4/2015 1:38 AM, David DeLaney wrote: > >[snip] > >>> Dave, trust, but verify and back away >>> >>Wrong order. That should be "Trust but back away and verify." > > I think that the "back away" should be first. If you verify first, you can then TURN and run. It's faster to exit forwards. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-04 15:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <12e2b1f0-5d0e-4fc5-ad28-aabbd8033809@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #424107 |
On Saturday, 3 October 2015 23:40:04 UTC+1, Dimensional Traveler wrote: > On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote: > > nuny@bid.nes wrote: > >> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:35:48 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella > >> Carrying Sissy wrote: > >>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in > >>> news:nvMpww.L4n@kithrup.com: > >>>> In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, > >>>> William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > >>>>>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, > >>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and > >>>>>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated > >>>>>>> that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military > >>>>>>> commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the > >>>>>>> other side doing so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do > >>>>>>> so, even with other clear paths to resolve the crisis being > >>>>>>> available. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have > >>>>>> been used after 1945. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General > >>>>>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur > >>>>>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he > >>>>>> didn't understand military matters. Truman recalled him. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember > >>>>>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in > >>>>>> fourth grade." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the > >>>>>> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old > >>>>>> soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier, > >>>>>> and now I shall fade away." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, > >>>>>> it was the military man who wanted to use them, and the > >>>>>> lifelong civilian who wouldn't let him. > >>>>> > >>>>> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the > >>>>> French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. > >>>> > >>>> There may have been talk. Nobody used them. > >>>> > >>>> In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared > >>>> against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They > >>>> had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a > >>>> change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the > >>>> enemy's. > >>>> > >>> And was dangerous to handle when not in actual use, and really pissed > >>> off the enemy, and a variety of other reasons aginst it. > >>> > >>> The Nazis made, literally, tons of chlorine triflouride at one point, > >>> to use as both a weapon and a rocket fuel. But the stuff is so > >>> dangerous, and a better oxidizer than pure oxygen[1], that they > >>> decided that wasn't a good idea. > >>> > >>> [1]If you spill it in your lab, whatever you spill it on, including > >>> the concrete floor, will catch on fire. If you grab your handy bucket > >>> of sand (no chem lab is complete without several) and dump that on > >>> it, the sand will catch on fire. If you douse it with water, the > >>> water will catch on fire. If you scoop it into a vacuum chamber and > >>> smother it in asbestos, the asbestos will catch on fire _in the > >>> absence of any atmostphere at all_. There is no known way to > >>> extinguish it. And the main byproducts of it reacting with stuff is > >>> chlorine and fluorine gas. (And it's not *nearly* as dangerous as > >>> dioxygen diflouride, which causes ice to catch on fire at 270 degrees > >>> below zero.) > >> > >> And then there's the appropriately named FOOF. This guy details > >> those and other truly terrifying chemicals: > >> > >> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ > >> > >> It's the sort of stuff some hard SF author ought to use, but editors > >> would probably not believe it. > >> > > You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon. > > But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking > about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for > some stories. :) But that sounds like even exposition could be fatal... tricky. :-)
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| From | Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-13 16:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mvjamg$i1b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424107 |
On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:34:01 in article <561057da$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 10/3/2015 10:52 AM, William Vetter wrote:
>> nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:35:48 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella
>>> Carrying Sissy wrote:
>>>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>>>> news:nvMpww.L4n@kithrup.com:
>>>>> In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>,
>>>>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and
>>>>>>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated
>>>>>>>> that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military
>>>>>>>> commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the
>>>>>>>> other side doing so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do
>>>>>>>> so, even with other clear paths to resolve the crisis being
>>>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have
>>>>>>> been used after 1945.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General
>>>>>>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur
>>>>>>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he
>>>>>>> didn't understand military matters. Truman recalled him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember
>>>>>>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in
>>>>>>> fourth grade."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the
>>>>>>> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old
>>>>>>> soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier,
>>>>>>> and now I shall fade away."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used,
>>>>>>> it was the military man who wanted to use them, and the
>>>>>>> lifelong civilian who wouldn't let him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the
>>>>>> French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu.
>>>>>
>>>>> There may have been talk. Nobody used them.
>>>>>
>>>>> In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared
>>>>> against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They
>>>>> had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a
>>>>> change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the
>>>>> enemy's.
>>>>>
>>>> And was dangerous to handle when not in actual use, and really pissed
>>>> off the enemy, and a variety of other reasons aginst it.
>>>>
>>>> The Nazis made, literally, tons of chlorine triflouride at one point,
>>>> to use as both a weapon and a rocket fuel. But the stuff is so
>>>> dangerous, and a better oxidizer than pure oxygen[1], that they
>>>> decided that wasn't a good idea.
>>>>
>>>> [1]If you spill it in your lab, whatever you spill it on, including
>>>> the concrete floor, will catch on fire. If you grab your handy bucket
>>>> of sand (no chem lab is complete without several) and dump that on
>>>> it, the sand will catch on fire. If you douse it with water, the
>>>> water will catch on fire. If you scoop it into a vacuum chamber and
>>>> smother it in asbestos, the asbestos will catch on fire _in the
>>>> absence of any atmostphere at all_. There is no known way to
>>>> extinguish it. And the main byproducts of it reacting with stuff is
>>>> chlorine and fluorine gas. (And it's not *nearly* as dangerous as
>>>> dioxygen diflouride, which causes ice to catch on fire at 270 degrees
>>>> below zero.)
>>>
>>> And then there's the appropriately named FOOF. This guy details
>>> those and other truly terrifying chemicals:
>>>
>>> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/
>>>
>>> It's the sort of stuff some hard SF author ought to use, but editors
>>> would probably not believe it.
>>>
>> You can't use something that predetonates as a weapon.
>
> But if the author told the editor it was so explosive that just thinking
> about making it caused the ingredients to detonate, it might work for
> some stories. :)
It worked for Alfred Bester.
--
F. Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net>
ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)
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| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 14:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA52894E3012E4taustingmail@69.16.179.42> |
| In reply to | #424053 |
"nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote in
news:fa2213b2-99a8-4cc3-917c-6fcb1599d6df@googlegroups.com:
> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:35:48 PM UTC-7, Gutless
> Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
>> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>> news:nvMpww.L4n@kithrup.com:
>>
>> > In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>,
>> > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>,
>> >>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian
>> >>>> and military leadership, in which a political crisis is
>> >>>> simulated that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the
>> >>>> military commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in
>> >>>> response to the other side doing so. And the civilian
>> >>>> commanders _always_ do so, even with other clear paths to
>> >>>> resolve the crisis being available.
>> >>>
>> >>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might
>> >>> have been used after 1945.
>> >>>
>> >>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General
>> >>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it.
>> >>> MacArthur told everyone what a stupid President Truman was,
>> >>> he didn't understand military matters. Truman recalled
>> >>> him.
>> >>>
>> >>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to
>> >>> remember when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I
>> >>> was in fourth grade."
>> >>>
>> >>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the
>> >>> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say
>> >>> old soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old
>> >>> soldier, and now I shall fade away."
>> >>>
>> >>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been
>> >>> used, it was the military man who wanted to use them, and
>> >>> the lifelong civilian who wouldn't let him.
>> >>
>> >>No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of
>> >>the French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu.
>> >
>> > There may have been talk. Nobody used them.
>> >
>> > In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared
>> > against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it.
>> > They had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of
>> > following a change in the wind and poisoning your own troops,
>> > not the enemy's.
>> >
>> And was dangerous to handle when not in actual use, and really
>> pissed off the enemy, and a variety of other reasons aginst it.
>>
>> The Nazis made, literally, tons of chlorine triflouride at one
>> point, to use as both a weapon and a rocket fuel. But the stuff
>> is so dangerous, and a better oxidizer than pure oxygen[1],
>> that they decided that wasn't a good idea.
>>
>> [1]If you spill it in your lab, whatever you spill it on,
>> including the concrete floor, will catch on fire. If you grab
>> your handy bucket of sand (no chem lab is complete without
>> several) and dump that on it, the sand will catch on fire. If
>> you douse it with water, the water will catch on fire. If you
>> scoop it into a vacuum chamber and smother it in asbestos, the
>> asbestos will catch on fire _in the absence of any atmostphere
>> at all_. There is no known way to extinguish it. And the main
>> byproducts of it reacting with stuff is chlorine and fluorine
>> gas. (And it's not *nearly* as dangerous as dioxygen
>> diflouride, which causes ice to catch on fire at 270 degrees
>> below zero.)
>
> And then there's the appropriately named FOOF. This guy
> details those and other truly terrifying chemicals:
That is dioxygen difluoride, yes.
>
> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/
>
> It's the sort of stuff some hard SF author ought to use, but
> editors would probably not believe it.
>
ClF3 is nearly as dangerous, and much easier to make in very large
quantities, apparently.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 09:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <muoju5$n2m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424048 |
On 10/3/15 1:35 AM, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
> news:nvMpww.L4n@kithrup.com:
>
>> In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>,
>> William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>,
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and
>>>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated
>>>>> that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military
>>>>> commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the
>>>>> other side doing so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do
>>>>> so, even with other clear paths to resolve the crisis being
>>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have
>>>> been used after 1945.
>>>>
>>>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General
>>>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it.
>>>> MacArthur told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he
>>>> didn't understand military matters. Truman recalled him.
>>>>
>>>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember
>>>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in
>>>> fourth grade."
>>>>
>>>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the
>>>> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old
>>>> soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier,
>>>> and now I shall fade away."
>>>>
>>>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used,
>>>> it was the military man who wanted to use them, and the
>>>> lifelong civilian who wouldn't let him.
>>>
>>> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the
>>> French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu.
>>
>> There may have been talk. Nobody used them.
>>
>> In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared
>> against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They
>> had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a
>> change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the
>> enemy's.
>>
> And was dangerous to handle when not in actual use, and really
> pissed off the enemy, and a variety of other reasons aginst it.
>
> The Nazis made, literally, tons of chlorine triflouride at one
> point, to use as both a weapon and a rocket fuel. But the stuff is
> so dangerous, and a better oxidizer than pure oxygen[1], that they
> decided that wasn't a good idea.
>
> [1]If you spill it in your lab, whatever you spill it on, including
> the concrete floor, will catch on fire. If you grab your handy
> bucket of sand (no chem lab is complete without several) and dump
> that on it, the sand will catch on fire. If you douse it with
> water, the water will catch on fire. If you scoop it into a vacuum
> chamber and smother it in asbestos, the asbestos will catch on fire
> _in the absence of any atmostphere at all_. There is no known way
> to extinguish it. And the main byproducts of it reacting with stuff
> is chlorine and fluorine gas.
Worse than that, it's hydrofluoric acid in normal atmosphere conditions.
> (And it's not *nearly* as dangerous
> as dioxygen diflouride, which causes ice to catch on fire at 270
> degrees below zero.)
Ahh, FOOF. You've been reading "Things I Won't Work With" again,
haven't you?
"A.G.Streng, folks, absolutely takes the corrosive exploding cake, and
I must tip my asbestos-lined titanium hat to him."
>
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
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| From | William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 13:54 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mup4ku$ng9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424047 |
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, >>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and >>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated that >>>> could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military commanders >>>> _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the other side doing >>>> so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do so, even with other >>>> clear paths to resolve the crisis being available. >>> >>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have been >>> used after 1945. >>> >>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General >>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur >>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he didn't >>> understand military matters. Truman recalled him. >>> >>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember >>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in fourth >>> grade." >>> >>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the circumstances, >>> and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old soldiers never >>> die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier, and now I shall >>> fade away." >>> >>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, it >>> was the military man who wanted to use them, and the lifelong >>> civilian who wouldn't let him. >> >> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the French >> at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. > > There may have been talk. Nobody used them. > > In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared > against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They > had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a > change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the > enemy's. Every destroyer has one ASROC in its launcher, ready to fire. That's been true for more than fifty years.
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| From | Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 11:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mup6cs$qpu$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424077 |
In article <mup4ku$ng9$1@dont-email.me>, William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > > In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, > > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > >>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, > >>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and > >>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated that > >>>> could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military commanders > >>>> _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the other side doing > >>>> so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do so, even with other > >>>> clear paths to resolve the crisis being available. > >>> > >>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have been > >>> used after 1945. > >>> > >>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General > >>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur > >>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he didn't > >>> understand military matters. Truman recalled him. > >>> > >>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember > >>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in fourth > >>> grade." > >>> > >>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the circumstances, > >>> and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old soldiers never > >>> die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier, and now I shall > >>> fade away." > >>> > >>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, it > >>> was the military man who wanted to use them, and the lifelong > >>> civilian who wouldn't let him. > >> > >> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the French > >> at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. > > > > There may have been talk. Nobody used them. > > > > In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared > > against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They > > had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a > > change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the > > enemy's. > > Every destroyer has one ASROC in its launcher, ready to fire. That's > been true for more than fifty years. Anti-submarine rocket? So far, that's all google and the several "acronym finder" places it points at is showing me as anything like a reasonable meaning for this "ASROC" you speak of. There is one other possibility showing up, but somehow I doubt you're referring to "Alternative Solutions for Reliable Online Commerce"... -- Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
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| From | William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 14:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mup72v$238$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #424078 |
Don Bruder wrote: > In article <mup4ku$ng9$1@dont-email.me>, > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >>> In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, >>> William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >>>>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, >>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and >>>>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated that >>>>>> could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military commanders >>>>>> _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the other side doing >>>>>> so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do so, even with other >>>>>> clear paths to resolve the crisis being available. >>>>> >>>>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have been >>>>> used after 1945. >>>>> >>>>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General >>>>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur >>>>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he didn't >>>>> understand military matters. Truman recalled him. >>>>> >>>>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember >>>>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in fourth >>>>> grade." >>>>> >>>>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the circumstances, >>>>> and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old soldiers never >>>>> die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier, and now I shall >>>>> fade away." >>>>> >>>>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, it >>>>> was the military man who wanted to use them, and the lifelong >>>>> civilian who wouldn't let him. >>>> >>>> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the French >>>> at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. >>> >>> There may have been talk. Nobody used them. >>> >>> In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared >>> against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They >>> had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a >>> change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the >>> enemy's. >> >> Every destroyer has one ASROC in its launcher, ready to fire. That's >> been true for more than fifty years. > > Anti-submarine rocket? Yes. I knew a guy who was on a crew. It was their joke that which tube it was in was supposed to be a secret, and it was said to be rotated frequently, but the nuclear technician who came on board would always go over the same tube with his geiger counter.
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 17:27 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.307a125bdc750701989b8a@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #424078 |
In article <mup6cs$qpu$1@dont-email.me>, dakidd@sonic.net says... > > In article <mup4ku$ng9$1@dont-email.me>, > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > > > In article <mungof$da1$1@dont-email.me>, > > > William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > > >>> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, > > >>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and > > >>>> military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated that > > >>>> could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military commanders > > >>>> _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the other side doing > > >>>> so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do so, even with other > > >>>> clear paths to resolve the crisis being available. > > >>> > > >>> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have been > > >>> used after 1945. > > >>> > > >>> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General > > >>> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur > > >>> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he didn't > > >>> understand military matters. Truman recalled him. > > >>> > > >>> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember > > >>> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in fourth > > >>> grade." > > >>> > > >>> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the circumstances, > > >>> and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old soldiers never > > >>> die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier, and now I shall > > >>> fade away." > > >>> > > >>> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, it > > >>> was the military man who wanted to use them, and the lifelong > > >>> civilian who wouldn't let him. > > >> > > >> No, there was talk about the US using tacnukes on behalf of the French > > >> at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. > > > > > > There may have been talk. Nobody used them. > > > > > > In similar fashion, poison gas was used in WWI and prepared > > > against during WWII ... but nobody ever actually used it. They > > > had learned that gas had an unpleasant habit of following a > > > change in the wind and poisoning your own troops, not the > > > enemy's. > > > > Every destroyer has one ASROC in its launcher, ready to fire. That's > > been true for more than fifty years. > > Anti-submarine rocket? So far, that's all google and the several > "acronym finder" places it points at is showing me as anything like a > reasonable meaning for this "ASROC" you speak of. There is one other > possibility showing up, but somehow I doubt you're referring to > "Alternative Solutions for Reliable Online Commerce"... While the statement about ASROC is true, it is both irrelevant and misleading. It is irrelevant because ASROC doesn't have anything to do with nuclear weapons--it carries a torpedo and its purpose is to sink submarines. It is true that until 1989 when nuclear depth bombs were phased out it _could_ carry a nuclear warhead, but could only carry it about 15 miles and wouldn't normally be so equipped for practical reasons (discuss the utility of nuclear depth bombs with a sonarman some time). It's misleading because it implies that having missiles "ready to fire" on US Navy warships is something special. ASROC is normally stored in either an on-deck armored box launcher or in the vertical launch system--in either launch system all missiles except those down for maintenance are constantly ready to fire (for certain values of "ready").
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| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-02 22:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA527E4A0E2E52taustingmail@69.16.179.43> |
| In reply to | #424039 |
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:nvMHD7.5sJ@kithrup.com:
> In article <XnsA527A3CE39C94taustingmail@69.16.179.43>,
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Interesting note: in wargames that involve both civilian and
>>military leadership, in which a political crisis is simulated
>>that could conceivably lead to nuclear war, the military
>>commanders _never_ fire their nukes, even in response to the
>>other side doing so. And the civilian commanders _always_ do so,
>>even with other clear paths to resolve the crisis being
>>available.
>
> Interesting. Considering the one time when nukes might have
> been used after 1945.
>
> It was the Korean War; it wasn't getting anywhere; General
> MacArthur wanted to nuke Beijing. Truman forbade it. MacArthur
> told everyone what a stupid President Truman was, he didn't
> understand military matters. Truman recalled him.
>
> I was in fourth grade, and the teacher told us all to remember
> when "General MacArthur came home. You can say, I was in fourth
> grade."
>
> They made it as easy on him as possible, under the
> circumstances, and he made a speech to Congress: "They say old
> soldiers never die, they just fade away; I am an old soldier,
> and now I shall fade away."
>
> But, in that one instance when nukes *might* have been used, it
> was the military man who wanted to use them, and the lifelong
> civilian who wouldn't let him.
>
Truman and MacArthur were both exceptions to a lot of rules.
And that wasn't a simulation.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-03 14:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nvnFrw.69F@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #424045 |
In article <XnsA527E4A0E2E52taustingmail@69.16.179.43>, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote: >Truman and MacArthur were both exceptions to a lot of rules. > >And that wasn't a simulation. Right. It was reality. This raises the question of what good are simulations if they don't tell you anything about reality? Except for writing science fiction, of course. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress. Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
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