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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #490212 > unrolled thread

Undeservedly famous

Started byThe Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com>
First post2018-04-13 21:44 -0700
Last post2018-05-05 18:03 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 290 — 42 participants

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Contents

  Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 21:44 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-13 23:30 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-14 03:44 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 10:16 -0400
          Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-14 21:40 +0300
          Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 19:28 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-04-15 15:19 +1200
              Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 09:10 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-15 20:11 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:37 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:38 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:43 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-16 13:53 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:32 -0700
                Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 22:21 -0700
                  Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-21 01:39 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:26 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:35 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 18:44 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 23:03 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:35 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-15 16:21 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2018-04-15 23:39 +0000
    Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:16 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 11:28 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:34 -0500
      Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 07:45 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 18:59 +0000
    Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-14 16:37 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 16:57 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-14 14:15 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:32 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:37 -0700
              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:42 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:25 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:45 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-15 01:01 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:46 -0500
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:47 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:40 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:49 +0000
          Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 16:31 -0700
            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:17 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:40 -0600
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:56 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:07 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-04-16 21:54 -0700
        Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 15:09 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 22:23 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:28 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> - 2018-04-14 13:26 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:36 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:36 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:46 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:38 -0500
          Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 03:53 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:12 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-16 00:55 +0000
                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-16 15:46 +0000
            Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:45 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:01 -0700
          Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:02 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:13 +0000
              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:56 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:09 +0000
          Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:43 -0600
            Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-15 16:45 +0000
      Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:42 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:41 -0600
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:46 -0600
      Re: Undeservedly famous eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2018-04-16 13:05 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 13:19 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-16 19:31 +0000
        Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:29 -0700
    Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:30 -0700
      Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:49 -0400
        Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:17 -0600
          Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:49 -0500
            Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 08:13 -0400
              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:47 -0600
                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 17:50 +0000
                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 14:30 -0600
                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 20:20 +0000
                    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 15:04 -0600
                      Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-15 14:16 -0700
                        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:19 -0400
                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:20 +0000
                            Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 16:51 -0600
                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 23:18 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:07 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:25 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:12 -0400
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-15 22:02 -0300
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-15 22:15 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 17:07 +0300
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2018-04-16 15:25 +0100
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:39 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:04 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-16 10:29 -0700
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 11:32 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:54 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 17:50 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:33 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:19 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-16 12:35 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:02 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:56 +0300
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 13:45 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:56 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:16 -0700
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:33 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 21:00 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:36 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 01:03 -0600
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:59 -0500
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 13:37 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 19:09 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 19:45 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 21:15 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:11 -0700
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 14:34 -0700
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:31 -0700
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-20 05:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 22:41 -0700
                                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:41 -0700
                                                          Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:03 -0700
                                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:40 -0700
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:40 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2018-04-18 20:04 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:17 -0500
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:27 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-21 10:37 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:38 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-18 21:15 -0600
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:15 -0500
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +0100
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:25 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 13:35 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 19:32 +0000
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:28 -0400
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 01:06 -0400
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:58 -0400
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 03:40 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 04:45 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-19 04:51 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:24 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:23 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 19:13 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:04 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:32 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:35 +0000
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:05 -0600
                                Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:37 -0600
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:24 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 04:54 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:04 -0500
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 13:34 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:26 -0500
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:37 +0000
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 10:03 -0700
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 17:07 +0000
                                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 19:12 +0000
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 12:34 -0700
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-04-21 23:13 +0200
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 21:18 +0000
                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 15:19 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:03 -0500
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-20 22:02 -0300
                            Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:58 -0400
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:12 -0600
                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:05 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:29 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 23:07 -0500
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:36 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:00 -0700
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:38 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:54 -0500
                              Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:59 -0400
                              Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:10 -0500
                                Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:25 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-21 09:39 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-21 15:24 -0700
                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:17 +0000
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:10 -0400
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:01 +0000
                          Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:15 -0400
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:15 -0600
                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:38 +0000
                            Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:41 +0100
                          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-16 15:23 -0700
                            Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-16 15:36 -0700
                              Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:27 -0700
                                Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:40 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:10 -0700
                                    Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 22:00 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 15:36 -0700
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-17 17:20 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:39 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:31 -0400
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 02:41 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:41 +0000
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-19 16:14 -0700
                                            Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:33 -0700
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:28 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:05 -0700
                                          Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 20:19 +0000
                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:16 +0000
                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:52 -0700
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                            Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:38 +0000
                              Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 19:07 -0600
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                                  Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 14:22 -0600
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-17 20:32 +0000
                              Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 22:21 -0400
                                Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:24 -0700
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 19:04 +0000
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:39 -0400
                                  Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:23 +0000
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                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-19 04:30 +0000
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                                              Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
                                                Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-23 15:56 -0500
                                                  Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-23 21:24 +0000
                                                    Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 02:25 -0700
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                                                      Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-27 05:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-27 09:29 -0700
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                            Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 20:53 -0600
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#490346

Fromted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Date2018-04-15 17:50 +0000
Message-ID<fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490324
In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>
>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>
>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>
>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>> 
>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>> 
>
>http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/

I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
collections and reference books.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#490361

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2018-04-15 14:30 -0600
Message-ID<fjhr3jF1ludU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490346
ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

>I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
>being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
>kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>collections and reference books.

I have thousands of books, most of which never got unpacked after the
1998 move.  Some of them got unpacked in 2003, just in time for the
sudden move to Toronto.  The shelves got assembled but no books on
them just in time for the sudden move FROM Toronto.  Shelves got
assembled and one box got unpacked in the current place before I got
pre-occupied with my late wife's illness.  By the time I had time
again, I was hooked on e-reading.

I do most of my reading on my phone.  I have a Kobo Mini that I keep
around in case I need to do reading in sunlight.  It replaced a
previous mini and two Sonys (first one died within warranty, second
less than another year later.  Bah sony quality.)

The problem is that I find cracking books to work in my usable phone
reader to be a nuisance.  And so many of the books have never been
released in e-book.  I had to go pirate to read Ringworld Throne,
which is book three in a series of five.  How can they keep publishing
sequels to a book that they refuse to sell?  (Three finished poorly.
I consider 3 and 4 to be a split single novel.)
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#490365

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-15 20:20 +0000
Message-ID<p78ttv.HG5@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490346
In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>
>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>> 
>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>> 
>>
>>http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>
>I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
>being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
>kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>collections and reference books.

I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
Amazon felt like it.  The only books I've bought online are
Graydon's, on googlebooks ... I hope I can trust them.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490371

FromDavid Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date2018-04-15 15:04 -0600
Message-ID<pb0eok$u1d$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#490365
On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>>
>>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>
>> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
>> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
>> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>> collections and reference books.
> 
> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
> Amazon felt like it. 

...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had 
done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all 
because I don't synch my Kindle.

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#490373

FromRobert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date2018-04-15 14:16 -0700
Message-ID<33ef01e6-ac93-4eb6-b1b2-9f0a078bfb3f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490371
On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
> > Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
> >> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
> >>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
> >>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
> >>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
> >>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
> >>
> >> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
> >> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
> >> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
> >> collections and reference books.
> > 
> > I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
> > Amazon felt like it. 
> 
> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had 
> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all 
> because I don't synch my Kindle.

Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
 get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.

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#490375

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-15 17:19 -0400
Message-ID<7cg7dd9aum0h270tbg697ri9g5unet8os0@4ax.com>
In reply to#490373
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>> >> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> >> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>> >>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>> >>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>> >>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper
>> >>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>> >>
>> >> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer print.  Despite
>> >> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once I got my
>> >> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>> >> collections and reference books.
>> > 
>> > I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>> > Amazon felt like it. 
>> 
>> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had 
>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all 
>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>
>Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
> get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.

I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets.  Can usually stop
reading on one and pick up where I left off on another.  Can even do
that going from audiobook to written book in some cases.  If they go
away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
then I can always look for a paper copy.

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#490388

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-15 22:20 +0000
Message-ID<p78zE2.syw@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490375
In article <7cg7dd9aum0h270tbg697ri9g5unet8os0@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
>>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> > In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>> > Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>> >> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> >> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>> >>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>> >>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>> >>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
>than in paper
>>> >>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>> >>
>>> >> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
>print.  Despite
>>> >> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
>I got my
>>> >> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>> >> collections and reference books.
>>> > 
>>> > I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>> > Amazon felt like it. 
>>> 
>>> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had 
>>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all 
>>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>
>>Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
>> get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
>
>I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets.  Can usually stop
>reading on one and pick up where I left off on another.  Can even do
>that going from audiobook to written book in some cases.  If they go
>away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
>then I can always look for a paper copy.

See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
first place.  Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
-- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
screen.  :)

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490389

FromDavid Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date2018-04-15 16:51 -0600
Message-ID<pb0l25$1754$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#490388
On 2018-04-15 4:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <7cg7dd9aum0h270tbg697ri9g5unet8os0@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
>>>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>>> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger
>>>>>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
>> than in paper
>>>>>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
>> print.  Despite
>>>>>> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
>> I got my
>>>>>> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>>>>> collections and reference books.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>>>> Amazon felt like it.
>>>>
>>>> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had
>>>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
>>>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>>
>>> Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
>>> get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
>>
>> I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets.  Can usually stop
>> reading on one and pick up where I left off on another.  Can even do
>> that going from audiobook to written book in some cases.  If they go
>> away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
>> then I can always look for a paper copy.
> 
> See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
> first place.  Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
> can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
> I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
> -- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
> screen.  :)
> 

Changing the font size to larger works rather better.

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#490397

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-15 23:18 +0000
Message-ID<p7922B.y7p@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490389
In article <pb0l25$1754$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2018-04-15 4:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <7cg7dd9aum0h270tbg697ri9g5unet8os0@4ax.com>,
>> J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>> In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>>>> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
>and bigger
>>>>>>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
>>> than in paper
>>>>>>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
>>> print.  Despite
>>>>>>> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
>>> I got my
>>>>>>> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>>>>>> collections and reference books.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>>>>> Amazon felt like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had
>>>>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
>>>>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>>>
>>>> Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
>>>> get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
>>>
>>> I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets.  Can usually stop
>>> reading on one and pick up where I left off on another.  Can even do
>>> that going from audiobook to written book in some cases.  If they go
>>> away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
>>> then I can always look for a paper copy.
>> 
>> See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
>> first place.  Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
>> can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
>> I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
>> -- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
>> screen.  :)
>> 
>
>Changing the font size to larger works rather better.

Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490404

FromGreg Goss <gossg@gossg.org>
Date2018-04-15 19:07 -0600
Message-ID<fjibaaF4rioU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#490397
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-04-15 4:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> -- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
>>> screen.  :)
>>> 
>>
>>Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
>
>Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
>invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
>handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.

In any reasonable reader, the text will reflow on a font size adjust.
Note that PDF doesn't SUPPORT any reasonable readers.

I'm always twitching the font size up or down a bit depending on
ambient light and how tired I am.  I don't even think of it any more
than I think of adjusting the volume on my car stereo.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#490421

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2018-04-15 19:25 -0700
Message-ID<25f3da81-81b4-45eb-8ebc-409c742ed663@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490404
On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 7:07:25 PM UTC-6, Greg Goss wrote:

> In any reasonable reader, the text will reflow on a font size adjust.
> Note that PDF doesn't SUPPORT any reasonable readers.

The purpose of PDF is to preserve documents in exactly the form they 
would be printed on paper. A PDF file is the electronic equivalent 
of a paper copy. Paper copies don't reflow, and neither do PDFs.

PDF was invented as a business document format. It works fine for advertising 
brochures and flyers, where the authors insist they be seen exactly as the art 
department made them. Because nothing else was available for a time, it was 
used for electronic books - but it is not an "e-reader" type of format. For that, you want EPUB.

Djvu is also a format that keeps books in their original format, but maybe it 
permits flexibility.

John Savard

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#490405

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-15 21:12 -0400
Message-ID<cbt7dddm202g4cs7kjuodq24aiphcnp2vc@4ax.com>
In reply to#490397
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <pb0l25$1754$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-04-15 4:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <7cg7dd9aum0h270tbg697ri9g5unet8os0@4ax.com>,
>>> J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:16:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, 15 April 2018 22:04:25 UTC+1, David Johnston  wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-04-15 2:20 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <fjhhmmFtm4aU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>>>>> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney
>>>>>>>>>> <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger
>>and bigger
>>>>>>>>>>>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier
>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *bullshit*.  There is no loss of interest in reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather
>>>> than in paper
>>>>>>>>>>> books, newspapers, and magazines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you have statistics?  And do you include newspapers and magazines?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find it curious that so many (in their survey) still prefer
>>>> print.  Despite
>>>>>>>> being a tech troglodyte in many respects, I never looked back once
>>>> I got my
>>>>>>>> kindle.  The only stuff I buy in paper now is comic books/comic strip
>>>>>>>> collections and reference books.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't trust Kindle books not to evaporate suddenly because
>>>>>>> Amazon felt like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...don't synch your Kindle.  That's all it takes.  Even if Amazon had
>>>>>> done that, to one of my books it wouldn't make any different at all
>>>>>> because I don't synch my Kindle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Until your Kindle breaks.  Then you can buy another Kindle and
>>>>> get back books that Amazon says you can get back, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> I synch my phone, my desktop, and my two tablets.  Can usually stop
>>>> reading on one and pick up where I left off on another.  Can even do
>>>> that going from audiobook to written book in some cases.  If they go
>>>> away, then they do--if it's something I really really want to revisit
>>>> then I can always look for a paper copy.
>>> 
>>> See, this is (one of the) reason(s) I buy paper copies in the
>>> first place.  Another is that my vision is getting fuzzy* and I
>>> can hold the page a couple inches from my good eye and read it.
>>> I don't know how well that would work with a handheld of any kind
>>> -- it takes some squirming to get my eye close enough to the PC
>>> screen.  :)
>>> 
>>
>>Changing the font size to larger works rather better.
>
>Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
>invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
>handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.

This hasn't been an issue for me using either Kindle Cloud Reader or
the Kindle App..  They adjust the text to stay within the margins. The
largest font in the Kindle App is about an inch high on my big screen
but I can zoom windows to get it several times that large.

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#490417

FromJoy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid>
Date2018-04-15 22:02 -0300
Message-ID<dbt7ddlakg7pbg9qgv5fghbhri4cf31t3e@4ax.com>
In reply to#490397
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.

Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.

Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
page "designers" disable wrapping.

-- 
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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#490429

FromDimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>
Date2018-04-15 22:15 -0700
Message-ID<pb1bh2$4s0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#490417
On 4/15/2018 6:02 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
> 
>> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
>> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
>> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
> 
> Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.
> 
> Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
> page "designers" disable wrapping.
> 
Probably one of two reasons.  1) It didn't occur to them to change the 
default; 2) it would interfere with the ads.

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.

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#490449

FromJuho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-16 17:07 +0300
Message-ID<MPG.353edabbf5320a98989aee@news.kolumbus.fi>
In reply to#490429
In article <pb1bh2$4s0$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net says...
> 
> On 4/15/2018 6:02 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> > Heydt) wrote:
> > 
> >> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
> >> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
> >> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
> > 
> > Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.
> > 
> > Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
> > page "designers" disable wrapping.
> > 
> Probably one of two reasons.  1) It didn't occur to them to change the 
> default; 2) it would interfere with the ads.

3) Peons shouldn't interfere with their pixel-perfect design (tested on 
precisely one client.).

-- 
Juho Julkunen

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#490450

Fromnews{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley)
Date2018-04-16 15:25 +0100
Message-ID<1nncw4i.1eiucv11flohtpN%news{@bestley.co.uk>
In reply to#490449
Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In article <pb1bh2$4s0$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net says...
> > 
> > On 4/15/2018 6:02 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> > > Heydt) wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
> > >> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
> > >> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
> > > 
> > > Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.
> > > 
> > > Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
> > > page "designers" disable wrapping.
> > > 
> > Probably one of two reasons.  1) It didn't occur to them to change the
> > default; 2) it would interfere with the ads.
> 
> 3) Peons shouldn't interfere with their pixel-perfect design (tested on
> precisely one client.).
and I suspect most on the HTML newsgroup would agree that is bad. I
think that is the dewsigners who would not read that technical stuff who
cause the trouble.

-- 
Mark

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#490454

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-04-16 14:39 +0000
Message-ID<p7A8qn.1Jr0@kithrup.com>
In reply to#490450
In article <1nncw4i.1eiucv11flohtpN%news{@bestley.co.uk>,
Mark Bestley <news{@bestley.co.uk> wrote:
>Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <pb1bh2$4s0$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net says...
>> > 
>> > On 4/15/2018 6:02 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
>> > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> > > Heydt) wrote:
>> > > 
>> > >> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
>> > >> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
>> > >> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
>> > > 
>> > > Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.
>> > > 
>> > > Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
>> > > page "designers" disable wrapping.
>> > > 
>> > Probably one of two reasons.  1) It didn't occur to them to change the
>> > default; 2) it would interfere with the ads.
>> 
>> 3) Peons shouldn't interfere with their pixel-perfect design (tested on
>> precisely one client.).
>and I suspect most on the HTML newsgroup would agree that is bad. I
>think that is the dewsigners who would not read that technical stuff who
>cause the trouble.

Is "dewsigners" a typo, or have you just coined a term for
dewy-eyed innocents who don't understand all that codey stuff and
don't want to?  :)

I count myself among their number; Hal says I know more about
computers than most non-programmers; he also acknowledges that
that's a very low bar.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490462

FromDimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>
Date2018-04-16 09:04 -0700
Message-ID<pb2hip$cfr$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#490454
On 4/16/2018 7:39 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <1nncw4i.1eiucv11flohtpN%news{@bestley.co.uk>,
> Mark Bestley <news{@bestley.co.uk> wrote:
>> Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pb1bh2$4s0$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On 4/15/2018 6:02 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 23:18:11 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Except it tends to make the text run past the margins into
>>>>>> invisibility.  Mind, I'm talking about the PC, not the assorted
>>>>>> handhelds; I don't have any handhelds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clicking "no style" often restores the ability to wrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someday I'm going to log into the HTML newsgroup and ask how and why
>>>>> page "designers" disable wrapping.
>>>>>
>>>> Probably one of two reasons.  1) It didn't occur to them to change the
>>>> default; 2) it would interfere with the ads.
>>>
>>> 3) Peons shouldn't interfere with their pixel-perfect design (tested on
>>> precisely one client.).
>> and I suspect most on the HTML newsgroup would agree that is bad. I
>> think that is the dewsigners who would not read that technical stuff who
>> cause the trouble.
> 
> Is "dewsigners" a typo, or have you just coined a term for
> dewy-eyed innocents who don't understand all that codey stuff and
> don't want to?  :)
> 
> I count myself among their number; Hal says I know more about
> computers than most non-programmers; he also acknowledges that
> that's a very low bar.
> 
The problem is that in the current software development environment, you 
probably know more than most programmers under age 30.  Who have likely 
never actually _SEEN_ source code.

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#490463

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2018-04-16 10:29 -0700
Message-ID<aba06bfb-4a3f-4e02-b54d-b7f1b964a857@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#490462
On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-6, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/16/2018 7:39 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> > I count myself among their number; Hal says I know more about
> > computers than most non-programmers; he also acknowledges that
> > that's a very low bar.

> The problem is that in the current software development environment, you 
> probably know more than most programmers under age 30.  Who have likely 
> never actually _SEEN_ source code.

How can someone, whatever his age, be called a "programmer" if he hasn't written 
source code?

Also, even incompetent programmers under 30 are probably fairly slick at messing 
around with Windows.

John Savard

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#490468

FromJibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-16 11:32 -0700
Message-ID<XnsA8C6757E051CCtaustingmail@69.16.179.43>
In reply to#490463
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:aba06bfb-4a3f-4e02-b54d-b7f1b964a857@googlegroups.com: 

> On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 10:04:44 AM UTC-6, Dimensional
> Traveler wrote: 
>> On 4/16/2018 7:39 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> 
>> > I count myself among their number; Hal says I know more about
>> > computers than most non-programmers; he also acknowledges
>> > that that's a very low bar.
> 
>> The problem is that in the current software development
>> environment, you probably know more than most programmers under
>> age 30.  Who have likely never actually _SEEN_ source code.
> 
> How can someone, whatever his age, be called a "programmer" if
> he hasn't written source code?

There's source code, and then there's source code. A lot of what 
passes for programming these days is actually scripting, using 
languages like javascript or PHP. While there's some similarity, it's 
not programming, realistically speaking.

There's also an increasing amount of just plugging in modular 
components (often with a drag-n-drop GUI) that someone else created.
> 
> Also, even incompetent programmers under 30 are probably fairly
> slick at messing around with Windows.

Generally speaking, no, they often aren't. Most companies that hire 
"progammers" want college degrees, and college degree programs don't 
teach that (or much about real world programming, either).

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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