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[tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams

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  [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-10-05 14:22 +0000
    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-05 08:01 -0700
      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-05 10:08 -0600
    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2018-10-05 09:02 -0700
      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-10-05 18:28 +0000
        Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 13:00 -0700
          Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-05 13:10 -0700
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-05 13:42 -0700
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 13:54 -0700
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 22:52 +0000
                  Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 07:01 -0700
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-10-06 09:49 -0700
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-05 14:22 -0700
          Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams smw <smw@trm.encs.concordia.ca> - 2018-10-11 04:58 +0000
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 06:06 -0700
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-10-11 13:23 +0000
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-11 10:16 -0700
                  Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-10-11 17:26 +0000
                  Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 20:59 -0400
                    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-11 23:04 -0700
                      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 20:18 -0400
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-11 21:03 +0000
    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:57 -0500
      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 19:57 -0400
        Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 19:22 -0500
          Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 19:30 -0500
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 22:37 -0400
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-10-06 02:46 +0000
          Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 22:36 -0400
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 22:05 -0500
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-10-06 04:26 +0000
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-05 21:55 -0700
                  Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-10-06 13:56 +0000
                    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-10-06 07:18 -0700
                      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 09:37 -0500
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-06 05:07 +0000
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams peterwezeman@hotmail.com - 2018-10-05 23:59 -0700
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 12:07 -0400
            Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-11 21:03 -0600
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 23:31 -0400
              Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 13:25 -0500
                Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 13:54 -0500
                  Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 20:23 -0400
                    Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 21:17 -0500
                      Re: [tor dot com] Sorry to Crush Your Dreams J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 00:04 -0400

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#500330

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 23:04:21 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 6:59:14 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:16:13 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> >Well, while someone is keeping busy figuring out how to build a time machine, he 
>> >will be too busy to invade real foreign countries in the Middle East, causing 
>> >problems for America's image in that part of the world. Win!
>
>> Earth to Quadi--what a bunch of loony-tune religious fanatics who
>> can't get laid except by enslaving women think of us is a matter of
>> crashing indifference.  YOU may have a crushing need to be liked, we
>> don't.
>
>I don't think that the U.S. should be worried about whether terrorists, or 
>wicked, bigoted Muslims, like it. However, I assume that the overwhelming 
>majority of Muslims are decent people just like us - and so we owe it to them as 
>well as to ourselves and the world to help make sure they won't be deceived and 
>confused by America's enemies.

The only ways to do that are (1) to educate them, which means
controlling their information or (2) to remove those enemies.  In
either case war is involved.

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#500195

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> In article <64383090-40a6-473a-b36c-ccf16f8d29f8@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei  <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 12:58:15 AM UTC-4, smw wrote:
> >> In <51ceb091-aa44-4d71-b1a6-c81e59e8f850@googlegroups.com>
> >> Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
> >> 
> >> >LP Hartley, in 'The Go-Between', wrote "The past is a foreign
> > country: they do
> >> >things differently there."
> >> 
> >> https://xkcd.com/1191/
> > 
> > :-)
> 
> Yeah, but you'll need a time machine to invade it.

Details.


Brian

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#499674

On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
> 
> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/

All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then, 
space is going to be for the ultra-rich.

Lynn

* The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from 
John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
     https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/

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#499677

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>> 
>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>
>All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then, 
>space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>
>Lynn
>
>* The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from 
>John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>     https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/

Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
less expensive.

NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
buy overpriced throwaways.

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#499681

On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>
>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>
>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>      https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
> 
> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
> less expensive.
> 
> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
> buy overpriced throwaways.

Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?

I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a 
person.

Lynn

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#499682

On 10/5/2018 7:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/ 
>>>>
>>>
>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>      https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>
>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>> less expensive.
>>
>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>> buy overpriced throwaways.
> 
> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
> 
> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a 
> person.
> 
> Lynn

And, what about the 1 in 99 chance of failure for the Space Shuttle.  I 
doubt that any space ship will have a much better failure rate.

I would still probably get on the 1 in 99 failure rate space ship if 
somebody bought me a ticket.

Lynn

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#499687

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:30:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/5/2018 7:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/ 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>      https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>
>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>> less expensive.
>>>
>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>> 
>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>> 
>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a 
>> person.
>> 
>> Lynn
>
>And, what about the 1 in 99 chance of failure for the Space Shuttle.  I 
>doubt that any space ship will have a much better failure rate.

The Space Shuttle was a piece of shit to begin with.  Why would
something that has had a proper development program be less reliable?

>I would still probably get on the 1 in 99 failure rate space ship if 
>somebody bought me a ticket.
>
>Lynn

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#499688

In article <pp8vnp$5tc$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/5/2018 7:22 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/ 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>      https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>
>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>> less expensive.
>>>
>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>> 
>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>> 
>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a 
>> person.
>> 
>> Lynn
>
>And, what about the 1 in 99 chance of failure for the Space Shuttle.  I 
>doubt that any space ship will have a much better failure rate.
>
>I would still probably get on the 1 in 99 failure rate space ship if 
>somebody bought me a ticket.
>
>Lynn
>

That Japanese artist guy is looking for passengers on the flight he
booked last I heard.  The catch is you have to be an artist.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#499686

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>>
>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>      https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>> 
>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>> less expensive.
>> 
>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>
>Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>
>I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a 
>person.

SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.

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#499691

On 10/5/2018 9:36 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>>>
>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>       https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>
>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>> less expensive.
>>>
>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>>
>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>>
>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a
>> person.
> 
> SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
> launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.

Sounds way too low a cost for a single trip.  I'll bet that I would barf 
the entire time that we were in weightlessness.

The BFR has 40 cabins.  That is 2.5 people per cabin for a one week trip 
around the moon ???  I wonder if each cabin has a potty or if you just 
wear a diaper.
     https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/bfr.htm

Good night, that thing is huge !

Lynn

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#499695

In article <pp98qr$ck9$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/5/2018 9:36 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>>>>
>>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>>       https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>>
>>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>>> less expensive.
>>>>
>>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>>>
>>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>>>
>>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a
>>> person.
>> 
>> SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
>> launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.
>
>Sounds way too low a cost for a single trip.  I'll bet that I would barf 
>the entire time that we were in weightlessness.
>
>The BFR has 40 cabins.  That is 2.5 people per cabin for a one week trip 
>around the moon ???  I wonder if each cabin has a potty or if you just 
>wear a diaper.

I understand there's a sort of vacuum attachment.

Although in _2001_, there was the zero-G toilet, which (if you
were able to read the fine print, was a self-contained centrifuge
that imparted some illusion of gravity inside the toilet while in
use.  It ended, "Please wait until spin has ended before
exiting."

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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#499696

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 10:45:04 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Although in _2001_, there was the zero-G toilet, which (if you
> were able to read the fine print, was a self-contained centrifuge
> that imparted some illusion of gravity inside the toilet while in
> use.  It ended, "Please wait until spin has ended before
> exiting."

I think that was actually the inside of the toilet spinning, not the whole 
washroom.

John Savard

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#499702

In article <82cc088a-cf03-411f-8bb4-e5379604f2d8@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 10:45:04 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Although in _2001_, there was the zero-G toilet, which (if you
>> were able to read the fine print, was a self-contained centrifuge
>> that imparted some illusion of gravity inside the toilet while in
>> use.  It ended, "Please wait until spin has ended before
>> exiting."
>
>I think that was actually the inside of the toilet spinning, not the whole 
>washroom.

It was the whole chamber, occupant and all.  I have a book
somewhere that gives the entire text.  I may be able to find it
and if so I'll transcribe it.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

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#499704

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:15:07 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> It was the whole chamber, occupant and all.  I have a book
> somewhere that gives the entire text.  I may be able to find it
> and if so I'll transcribe it.

I've seen that book: The Lost Worlds of 2001. I believe the text is also on-line.

John Savard

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#499707

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:6da6d99d-022c-42ac-bd14-732cdc6d1007@googlegroups.com: 

> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:15:07 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt
> wrote: 
> 
>> It was the whole chamber, occupant and all.  I have a book
>> somewhere that gives the entire text.  I may be able to find it and
>> if so I'll transcribe it. 
> 
> I've seen that book: The Lost Worlds of 2001. I believe the text is
> also on-line. 
> 
> John Savard

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23937003@N08/5819059081

pt

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#499697

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <pp98qr$ck9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 10/5/2018 9:36 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>>>       https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>>>
>>>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>>>> less expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>>>>
>>>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a
>>>> person.
>>>
>>> SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
>>> launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.
>>
>>Sounds way too low a cost for a single trip.  I'll bet that I would barf
>>the entire time that we were in weightlessness.
>>
>>The BFR has 40 cabins.  That is 2.5 people per cabin for a one week trip
>>around the moon ???  I wonder if each cabin has a potty or if you just
>>wear a diaper.
>
> I understand there's a sort of vacuum attachment.

_The Forever War_ (Haldeman) says this about that:

   I popped the spare suit and after a lot of pulling and pushing, managed
   to get his legs in. Hooked up the biosensors and the front relief tube.
   He'd have to do the other one himself -- it's too complicated. For the
   nth time I was glad not to have been born female; they have to have two
   of those damned plumber's friends, instead of just one and a simple
   hose.

✍

Thank you,

-- 
Don

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#499699

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 11:45:04 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <pp98qr$ck9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 10/5/2018 9:36 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> >> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> >>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
> >>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lynn
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
> >>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
> >>>>>       https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
> >>>>
> >>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
> >>>> less expensive.
> >>>>
> >>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
> >>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
> >>>
> >>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
> >>>
> >>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a
> >>> person.
> >> 
> >> SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
> >> launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.
> >
> >Sounds way too low a cost for a single trip.  I'll bet that I would barf 
> >the entire time that we were in weightlessness.
> >
> >The BFR has 40 cabins.  That is 2.5 people per cabin for a one week trip 
> >around the moon ???  I wonder if each cabin has a potty or if you just 
> >wear a diaper.
> 
> I understand there's a sort of vacuum attachment.
> 
> Although in _2001_, there was the zero-G toilet, which (if you
> were able to read the fine print, was a self-contained centrifuge
> that imparted some illusion of gravity inside the toilet while in
> use.  It ended, "Please wait until spin has ended before
> exiting."
> 
The movie and the book differ here. The movie, for comic effect, briefly 
shows elaborate instructions describing equipment that functions 
in free fall:   

https://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/aso/zeroGtoilet.html

In the book, Clarke describes a system where the entire washroom rotates when 
in use to provide enough centripetal acceleration for Earth-type fixtures to 
function as they do on the Earth or moon:

A whole generation of research by heroic but unsung volunteers had gone into 
the design of the washroom, and it was now considered to be more or less 
foolproof. Floyd investigated it soon after free fall had begun. He found 
himself in a little cubicle with all the fittings of an ordinary airline 
toilet, but illuminated with a red light that was very harsh and unpleasant 
to the eye. A notice printed in prominent letters announced: MOST IMPORTANT! 
FOR YOUR OWN COMFORT, PLEASE READ THESE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY!

Floyd sat down (one still tended to do so, even when weightless) and read 
the notice several times. When he was sure that there had been no modifications
since his last trip, he pressed the START button.

Close at hand, an electric motor began to whirr, and Floyd felt himself moving.
As the notice advised him to do, he closed his eyes and waited. After a minute,
a bell chimed softly and he looked around.

The light had now changed to a soothing pinkish-white; but, more important, he
was under gravity again.

Only the faintest vibration revealed that it was a spurious gravity, caused by
the carrousel like spin of the whole toilet compartment. Floyd picked up a 
piece of soap, and watched it drop in slow motion; he judged that the 
centrifugal force was about a quarter of a normal gravity. But that was quite 
enough; it would ensure that everything moved in the right direction, in the 
one place where this mattered most.

He pressed the STOP FOR EXIT button, and closed his eyes again. Weight slowly 
ebbed as the rotation ceased, the bell gave a double chime, and the red warning
light was back. The door was then locked in the right position to let him glide
out into the cabin, where he adhered as quickly as possible to the carpet. He 
had long ago exhausted the novelty of weightlessness, and was grateful for the 
Velcro slippers that allowed him to walk almost normally.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

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#499709

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 04:26:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <pp98qr$ck9$1@dont-email.me>,
>Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 10/5/2018 9:36 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:22:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 10/5/2018 6:57 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 17:57:55 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/5/2018 9:22 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> Sorry to Crush Your Dreams, But We're Not Colonizing Space Anytime Soon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2018/10/05/sorry-to-crush-your-dreams-but-were-not-colonizing-space-anytime-soon/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All we need is a fuel source like the imaginary Squeezer*.  Until then,
>>>>>> space is going to be for the ultra-rich.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The Squeezer is the infinite compression / gravity less device from
>>>>>> John Varley's splendid _Red Thunder_ books.
>>>>>>       https://www.amazon.com/Red-Thunder-Lightning-Novel/dp/0441011624/
>>>>>
>>>>> Once the cost has been reduced to fuel and crew time it will get a lot
>>>>> less expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> NASA never tried to make it cheap, they just bought and continue to
>>>>> buy overpriced throwaways.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, the participants will change from the ultra rich to the very rich ?
>>>>
>>>> I just don't see a trip around the moon costing less than, $10 million a
>>>> person.
>>> 
>>> SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
>>> launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.
>>
>>Sounds way too low a cost for a single trip.  I'll bet that I would barf 
>>the entire time that we were in weightlessness.
>>
>>The BFR has 40 cabins.  That is 2.5 people per cabin for a one week trip 
>>around the moon ???  I wonder if each cabin has a potty or if you just 
>>wear a diaper.
>
>I understand there's a sort of vacuum attachment.
>
>Although in _2001_, there was the zero-G toilet, which (if you
>were able to read the fine print, was a self-contained centrifuge
>that imparted some illusion of gravity inside the toilet while in
>use.  It ended, "Please wait until spin has ended before
>exiting."

In Skylab there was a zero-g toilet.  They have been in more or less
continuous use since.  There is no magic there, no big secret, no mad
science waiting to be developed.

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#500250

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
>launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.

The sketch I saw called it a "ship".  BFS.  The BFR is a surface to
orbit booster, isn't it?
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#500254

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 21:03:57 -0600, Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>SpaceX is shooting for 10 million all up for BFR.  Not per person, per
>>launch.  Capacity around 100 passengers.
>
>The sketch I saw called it a "ship".  BFS.  The BFR is a surface to
>orbit booster, isn't it?

The system is BFR.  It consists of BFB and BFS.  BFB is the first
stage.  BFS is the second stage.

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