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Societies of superhumans

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  Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 00:15 -0700
    Re: Societies of superhumans Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 06:43 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 07:02 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 14:29 +0000
        Re: Societies of superhumans Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-23 21:56 -0700
          Re: Societies of superhumans goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-03-24 18:08 +0000
            Re: Societies of superhumans Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-24 14:49 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 14:27 +0000
      Re: Societies of superhumans Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 21:41 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 21:49 -0700
    Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 13:37 +0000
      Re: Societies of superhumans D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-23 18:45 +0000
        Re: Societies of superhumans Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-23 13:00 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 15:03 -0500
          Re: Societies of superhumans D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-23 21:19 +0000
            Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 22:25 +0000
              Re: Societies of superhumans D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-23 23:48 +0000
          Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:37 -0700
            Re: Societies of superhumans David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-23 20:43 -0600
        Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 20:04 +0000
          Re: Societies of superhumans "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 16:12 -0500
            Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 22:26 +0000
        Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:31 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:19 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-03-24 18:00 +0000
          Re: Societies of superhumans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-03-25 09:57 -0700
    Re: Societies of superhumans Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-23 07:08 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:20 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-25 08:51 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-25 16:51 +0000
          Re: Societies of superhumans Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-25 10:16 -0700
            Re: Societies of superhumans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-03-26 17:11 -0700
              Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-27 00:18 +0000
                Re: Societies of superhumans Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-26 19:59 -0700
                  Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-27 05:55 +0000
                    Re: Societies of superhumans Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-03-27 05:29 -0600
                      Re: Societies of superhumans D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-27 15:57 +0000
                        Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 22:11 -0700
                        Re: Societies of superhumans David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 04:29 -0500
                      Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 22:01 -0700
                    Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 21:54 -0700
                  Re: Societies of superhumans Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-03-27 14:22 -0700
                  Re: Societies of superhumans Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-30 20:37 -0700
                    Re: Societies of superhumans mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2018-03-30 22:09 -0700
                    Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-31 01:25 -0700
                      Re: Societies of superhumans Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-03-31 05:51 -0700
                        Re: Societies of superhumans Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-31 20:07 -0700
          Re: Societies of superhumans lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 22:26 -0700
            Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-27 05:55 +0000
              Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 21:57 -0700
    Re: Societies of superhumans D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-23 14:22 +0000
      Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:24 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 15:40 -0500
    Societies of superhumans Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans Leo Sgouros <adravirgo@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 07:43 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 19:27 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 18:26 +0000
      Re: Societies of superhumans David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 04:37 -0500
    Re: Societies of superhumans David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-23 14:25 -0600
      Re: Societies of superhumans David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 04:49 -0500
    Re: Societies of superhumans "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-03-24 22:05 -0400
      Re: Societies of superhumans ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-25 03:21 +0000
        Re: Societies of superhumans Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 21:48 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-24 21:37 -0600
        Re: Societies of superhumans "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-03-27 07:34 -0400
          Re: Societies of superhumans The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 22:06 -0700
            Re: Societies of superhumans David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 04:52 -0500
          Re: Societies of superhumans Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-30 20:33 -0700
            Re: Societies of superhumans "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-03-31 10:17 -0400
              Re: Societies of superhumans mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2018-03-31 08:50 -0700
                Re: Societies of superhumans David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 04:54 -0500
              Re: Societies of superhumans Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-31 09:40 -0700
              Re: Societies of superhumans Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-03-31 12:37 -0700
              Re: Societies of superhumans David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-31 14:05 -0600
              Re: Societies of superhumans Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-01 19:42 -0700
                Re: Societies of superhumans David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-01 21:22 -0600
                  Re: Societies of superhumans ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-02 03:57 +0000
    Re: Societies of superhumans Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 15:36 -0500
      Re: Societies of superhumans Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 14:15 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 16:22 -0500
          Re: Societies of superhumans Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-26 14:34 -0700
      Re: Societies of superhumans Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-26 14:25 -0700
        Re: Societies of superhumans Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 16:28 -0500

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#489233

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 7:30:24 AM UTC-4, Greg Goss wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> 
> >In article <p9cc2q$psu$1@dont-email.me>,
> >Dimensional Traveler  <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>> In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
> >>>> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
> >>> 
> >>> Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
> >>> case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
> >>> Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
> >>> 
> >>Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?
> >
> >Well, I didn't feel hated and abused as an adolescent.  But I've
> >always been an outlier.  Note that I was never a pyrokinetic
> >either.
> 
> I was hated and abused up to Grade 6 (age 12), maybe Grade 7.  I
> didn't actually notice when it stopped.  
> 
> High school was actually sane for me.  I was still a misfit and deeply
> unhappy, but I internalized that as my own problem, not anything that
> people around me were doing.  It wasn't until well into my forties
> that I discovered that everyone's HIGH SCHOOL was supposed to be a
> disaster.
> -- 
> We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

If you are lucky, you can be an outlier in a community and not be an outcast.  But you probably need to keep quiet about your thinking.  In my case, I did not believe or even respect most of what they held as "God given".  I just never told them. To give an example, my community believed that the moon landings were faked because "God would not let anyone interfere with his moon".

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#489231

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:00:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <p9cc2q$psu$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler  <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> >On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
> >>> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
> >> 
> >> Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
> >> case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
> >> Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
> >> 
> >Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?
> 
> Well, I didn't feel hated and abused as an adolescent.  But I've
> always been an outlier.  Note that I was never a pyrokinetic
> either.
> 
> -- 
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> Vallejo, California
> djheydt at gmail dot com

I have never felt hated and abused. But you can feel an outlier for all kinds of reasons, some of them unrelated to your abilities real or imagined. I grew up in a community where physicality was not just king, it was the only thing.  I was a bookworm.  I was "strange", but not despised or bullied.

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#489198

On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 19:59:40 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
>> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
>>> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
>> 
>> Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
>> case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
>> Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
>> 
>Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?

     I thought it was not understood, unless of course, someone really
does.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#489459

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 9:59:40 PM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
> > Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
> >> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
> > 
> > Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
> > case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
> > Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
> > 
> Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?

They exist.  I'm not sure, in the long term, if that's actually advantageous for them, though.  Some kids actually _peak_ in high school in terms of personal happiness and fulfilment, and spend the rest of their lives longing for it.

Recall the old song _Glory Days_ by Bruce Springsteen?  There _are_ kids like that in the real world, the former quarterback still going on about the touchdown at the State championship 40 years later, or the former uber-popular cheerleader who wonders why she can't get what she wants with a smile and wiggle anymore.  I'm not sure how common they are, but you meet them.

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#489464

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 4:37:37 AM UTC+1, Johnny1A wrote:
> On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 9:59:40 PM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > >> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
> > >> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
> > > 
> > > Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
> > > case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
> > > Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
> > > 
> > Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?
> 
> They exist.  I'm not sure, in the long term, if that's actually advantageous for them, though.  Some kids actually _peak_ in high school in terms of personal happiness and fulfilment, and spend the rest of their lives longing for it.
> 
> Recall the old song _Glory Days_ by Bruce Springsteen?  There _are_ kids like that in the real world, the former quarterback still going on about the touchdown at the State championship 40 years later, or the former uber-popular cheerleader who wonders why she can't get what she wants with a smile and wiggle anymore.  I'm not sure how common they are, but you meet them.

Every high school will have a local champion. When those champions go on to the next level, most of them will - by definition - be mediocre. Those of us who did well at school and went to good universities were warned of this. In my case the result was that I didn't aim high at university, and instead spent far too much time reading Science Fiction.

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#489471

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 11:37:37 PM UTC-4, Johnny1A wrote:
> On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 9:59:40 PM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > On 3/26/2018 5:18 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > In article <c687639f-77a6-497b-aaeb-643041d56036@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > >> I thought being hated and abused came first, and _then_ the
> > >> pyrokinetic powers manifested themselves.
> > > 
> > > Don't those powers tend to manifest in adolescence?  In which
> > > case the person doesn't *have* to have been hated and abused.
> > > Just being an adolescent is impetus enough.
> > > 
> > Can you think of an adolescent who hasn't felt hated and abused?
> 
> They exist.  I'm not sure, in the long term, if that's actually advantageous for them, though.  Some kids actually _peak_ in high school in terms of personal happiness and fulfilment, and spend the rest of their lives longing for it.
> 
> Recall the old song _Glory Days_ by Bruce Springsteen?  There _are_ kids like that in the real world, the former quarterback still going on about the touchdown at the State championship 40 years later, or the former uber-popular cheerleader who wonders why she can't get what she wants with a smile and wiggle anymore.  I'm not sure how common they are, but you meet them.

The adolescent rebellion thing is a peculiarity of American society which Americans have decided is pan-human trait, as we so often do with other American social peculiarities.  In many societies people obey their parents well into adulthood and never rebel.

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#489472

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 4:25:17 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:

> The adolescent rebellion thing is a peculiarity of American society which Americans have decided is pan-human trait, as we so often do with other American social peculiarities.  In many societies people obey their parents well into adulthood and never rebel.

It shows up in other ways, many familiar to followers of genre fiction.
The son who can't stand to stay on the farm so he runs off to sea, or 
"goes for a soldier," for example.  Then there's the wastrel son who
lives it up, rather than attending to the family business with the ur- 
example the New Testament's prodigal son.

What would be the female equivalents?  Running off with some traveling 
fellow?

Kevin R

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#489505

On Saturday, 31 March 2018 13:51:25 UTC+1, Kevrob  wrote:
> On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 4:25:17 AM UTC-4, The  Zygon wrote:
> 
> > The adolescent rebellion thing is a peculiarity of American society which Americans have decided is pan-human trait, as we so often do with other American social peculiarities.  In many societies people obey their parents well into adulthood and never rebel.
> 
> It shows up in other ways, many familiar to followers of genre fiction.
> The son who can't stand to stay on the farm so he runs off to sea, or 
> "goes for a soldier," for example.  Then there's the wastrel son who
> lives it up, rather than attending to the family business with the
> ur-example the New Testament's prodigal son.
> 
> What would be the female equivalents?  Running off with some traveling 
> fellow?

There are ballads.  And The Corrs addressed the subject, 
several years ago now I suppose.

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#489151

On 3/25/18 9:51 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> I met Ms. Shiras once; she said that fans kept coming up to her
> at cons and saying, "That book was about ME!"
>
> And it's true that you don't have to be a super-genius who's
> publishing at age eight to be the brightest kid in a classful of
> average kids and loathed because of it.  Adfui, feci.

Now you've done it. Not enough that I've already got a stack of "to be 
read" a meter high or so, now I had to go to my library, and there it is 
- "Children of the Atom." Avon Publications, Inc. 35 cents still 
readable, not crumbling yet.

So far I've re-read about half of it - every other paragraph seems to be 
remembered rather than reread.

If I'm not careful it will trigger a cascading re-read of Heinlein 
juveniles, from the same era.

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#489155

In article <p9ckmu$tm9$1@dont-email.me>,
lal_truckee  <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 3/25/18 9:51 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> I met Ms. Shiras once; she said that fans kept coming up to her
>> at cons and saying, "That book was about ME!"
>>
>> And it's true that you don't have to be a super-genius who's
>> publishing at age eight to be the brightest kid in a classful of
>> average kids and loathed because of it.  Adfui, feci.
>
>Now you've done it. Not enough that I've already got a stack of "to be 
>read" a meter high or so, now I had to go to my library, and there it is 
>- "Children of the Atom." Avon Publications, Inc. 35 cents still 
>readable, not crumbling yet.
>
>So far I've re-read about half of it - every other paragraph seems to be 
>remembered rather than reread.
>
>If I'm not careful it will trigger a cascading re-read of Heinlein 
>juveniles, from the same era.

You could do worse.  Early Heinlein is much much better than late
Heinlein.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#489232

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:00:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <p9ckmu$tm9$1@dont-email.me>,
> lal_truckee  <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On 3/25/18 9:51 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> I met Ms. Shiras once; she said that fans kept coming up to her
> >> at cons and saying, "That book was about ME!"
> >>
> >> And it's true that you don't have to be a super-genius who's
> >> publishing at age eight to be the brightest kid in a classful of
> >> average kids and loathed because of it.  Adfui, feci.
> >
> >Now you've done it. Not enough that I've already got a stack of "to be 
> >read" a meter high or so, now I had to go to my library, and there it is 
> >- "Children of the Atom." Avon Publications, Inc. 35 cents still 
> >readable, not crumbling yet.
> >
> >So far I've re-read about half of it - every other paragraph seems to be 
> >remembered rather than reread.
> >
> >If I'm not careful it will trigger a cascading re-read of Heinlein 
> >juveniles, from the same era.
> 
> You could do worse.  Early Heinlein is much much better than late
> Heinlein.
> 
> -- 
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> Vallejo, California
> djheydt at gmail dot com

His later books were full of interminable dialogue which did not advance the story at all. Some authors use dialogue to communicate ideas, but a lot of Heinlein's dialogue were banal.

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#488915

The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
> The idea of the superman pervades science fiction. But in most of the
> stories I have read, the superhumans are evil in some way and need to
> be destroyed. I have read very few in which all humans have become
> superhuman, compared to humanity of today. I am interested in hearing
> about stories which tackle this problem. That is, how to write a good
> story where all humans are superhuman, and so the story is not about
> the clash between the ordinary humans and superhumans.
>
> Maybe I should add that sometimes the clash set to some remove.  The
> superhumans have become separated from the main branch of humanity,
> and the clash is between the main branch and separated superhumans.
>

Does superhuman cognition imparted by a brain augmentation device count?
If so, "Historical Crisis" and _Psychohistorical Crisis_ (Kingsbury)
both use "fams" (eg familiars) to achieve superhumanity. The fam is an
external symbiotic computer mind that's attached to the skull.
    Although the humans in the stories fight each other their conflict
doesn't arise out hatred for The Other. Instead, it's a perfectly
acceptable, sensible, normal (to some) motivation. Various factions
simply crave more power.
    You made your feelings toward Orson Scott Card known. Nonetheless,
don't some of his stories contain superhuman cognition?
    If fountain-of-youth technology counts, there's the _TekWar_
(Goulart) franchise. Factions, which contain a mix of humans and robots,
fight each other for "good" reasons and not out of hatred for The Other.
One robot becomes bored with the constraints imposed by the three laws
of robotics (so to speak). The humans, as always, simply crave more
power.

Thank you,

--
Don

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#488959

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:22:51 AM UTC-4, D B Davis wrote:
> The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The idea of the superman pervades science fiction. But in most of the
> > stories I have read, the superhumans are evil in some way and need to
> > be destroyed. I have read very few in which all humans have become
> > superhuman, compared to humanity of today. I am interested in hearing
> > about stories which tackle this problem. That is, how to write a good
> > story where all humans are superhuman, and so the story is not about
> > the clash between the ordinary humans and superhumans.
> >
> > Maybe I should add that sometimes the clash set to some remove.  The
> > superhumans have become separated from the main branch of humanity,
> > and the clash is between the main branch and separated superhumans.
> >
> 
> Does superhuman cognition imparted by a brain augmentation device count?
> If so, "Historical Crisis" and _Psychohistorical Crisis_ (Kingsbury)
> both use "fams" (eg familiars) to achieve superhumanity. The fam is an
> external symbiotic computer mind that's attached to the skull.
>     Although the humans in the stories fight each other their conflict
> doesn't arise out hatred for The Other. Instead, it's a perfectly
> acceptable, sensible, normal (to some) motivation. Various factions
> simply crave more power.
>     You made your feelings toward Orson Scott Card known. Nonetheless,
> don't some of his stories contain superhuman cognition?
>     If fountain-of-youth technology counts, there's the _TekWar_
> (Goulart) franchise. Factions, which contain a mix of humans and robots,
> fight each other for "good" reasons and not out of hatred for The Other.
> One robot becomes bored with the constraints imposed by the three laws
> of robotics (so to speak). The humans, as always, simply crave more
> power.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> --
> Don

I like Orson Scott Card.  He is the first writer I read who I thought was a writer first and a science fiction enthusiast second. 

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#489094

On 3/23/2018 9:24 PM, The Zygon wrote:
> On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:22:51 AM UTC-4, D B Davis wrote:
>> The  Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The idea of the superman pervades science fiction. But in most of the
>>> stories I have read, the superhumans are evil in some way and need to
>>> be destroyed. I have read very few in which all humans have become
>>> superhuman, compared to humanity of today. I am interested in hearing
>>> about stories which tackle this problem. That is, how to write a good
>>> story where all humans are superhuman, and so the story is not about
>>> the clash between the ordinary humans and superhumans.
>>>
>>> Maybe I should add that sometimes the clash set to some remove.  The
>>> superhumans have become separated from the main branch of humanity,
>>> and the clash is between the main branch and separated superhumans.
>>>
>>
>> Does superhuman cognition imparted by a brain augmentation device count?
>> If so, "Historical Crisis" and _Psychohistorical Crisis_ (Kingsbury)
>> both use "fams" (eg familiars) to achieve superhumanity. The fam is an
>> external symbiotic computer mind that's attached to the skull.
>>      Although the humans in the stories fight each other their conflict
>> doesn't arise out hatred for The Other. Instead, it's a perfectly
>> acceptable, sensible, normal (to some) motivation. Various factions
>> simply crave more power.
>>      You made your feelings toward Orson Scott Card known. Nonetheless,
>> don't some of his stories contain superhuman cognition?
>>      If fountain-of-youth technology counts, there's the _TekWar_
>> (Goulart) franchise. Factions, which contain a mix of humans and robots,
>> fight each other for "good" reasons and not out of hatred for The Other.
>> One robot becomes bored with the constraints imposed by the three laws
>> of robotics (so to speak). The humans, as always, simply crave more
>> power.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> --
>> Don
> 
> I like Orson Scott Card.  He is the first writer I read who I thought was a writer first and a science fiction enthusiast second.

Wow, those are fighting words around here.  "ducks and runs away".

Lynn

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#488917

Pohl's "Day Million" leaps to mind, where everyone has superpowers compared to us in the mid-20th century.  (I might somehow wedge in "The Marching Morons," with a cabal of normal humans as being super in that society and secretly running the world.)

Timothy Zahn's Cobras were enhanced soldiers who couldn't quite be de-enhanced or deprogrammed after the war; it was suggested they might be more comfortable in their own colony on the frontier.  Which reminds me of Harry Harrison's _Deathworld_.  The planet Pyrrhus, wasn't it?  The Pyrrhics developed superhuman strength speed and reflexes to defend against everything on the planet that was trying to kill them.

-- 
-Jack 

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#488918

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:39:47 AM UTC-5, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Pohl's "Day Million" leaps to mind, where everyone has superpowers compared to us in the mid-20th century.  (I might somehow wedge in "The Marching Morons," with a cabal of normal humans as being super in that society and secretly running the world.)
> 
> Timothy Zahn's Cobras were enhanced soldiers who couldn't quite be de-enhanced or deprogrammed after the war; it was suggested they might be more comfortable in their own colony on the frontier. 


Scalzi's "Old Man's War" series takes the same tack.


 Which reminds me of Harry Harrison's _Deathworld_.  The planet Pyrrhus, wasn't it?  The Pyrrhics developed superhuman strength speed and reflexes to defend against everything on the planet that was trying to kill them.
> 
> -- 
> -Jack

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#488960

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 10:43:33 AM UTC-4, Leo Sgouros wrote:
> On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:39:47 AM UTC-5, Jack Bohn wrote:
> > Pohl's "Day Million" leaps to mind, where everyone has superpowers compared to us in the mid-20th century.  (I might somehow wedge in "The Marching Morons," with a cabal of normal humans as being super in that society and secretly running the world.)
> > 
> > Timothy Zahn's Cobras were enhanced soldiers who couldn't quite be de-enhanced or deprogrammed after the war; it was suggested they might be more comfortable in their own colony on the frontier. 
> 
> 
> Scalzi's "Old Man's War" series takes the same tack.
> 
> 
>  Which reminds me of Harry Harrison's _Deathworld_.  The planet Pyrrhus, wasn't it?  The Pyrrhics developed superhuman strength speed and reflexes to defend against everything on the planet that was trying to kill them.
> > 
> > -- 
> > -Jack

There was a _Next Generation_ episode with this story line.

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#488934

In article <b770ebe8-fb8c-48c4-9345-996e05d2851f@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn  <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Pohl's "Day Million" leaps to mind, where everyone has superpowers
>compared to us in the mid-20th century.  (I might somehow wedge in "The
>Marching Morons," with a cabal of normal humans as being super in that
>society and secretly running the world.)

And they're working themselves to death doing it.


-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#489579

On 2018-03-23, Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pohl's "Day Million"
> Timothy Zahn's Cobras
> Harry Harrison's _Deathworld_.

How about Moorcock's Dancers at the End of Time? Each one controlled vast
resources by today's standards, and could basically reshape reality as they
wished ... feeding off the dregs of the dying universe.

Examples of superhuman powers not shared by all inhabitants include the
webserials _Ra_ and _Fine Structure_ by Sam, at qntm.org; I believe both are
well worth reading.

Hmm, he appears to have two new posts since last I checked  ... but that would
mean I haven;t checked since mid-December? Huh.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#488941

On 2018-03-23 1:15 AM, The Zygon wrote:
> The idea of the superman pervades science fiction. But in most of the stories I have read, the superhumans are evil in some way and need to be destroyed. I have read very few in which all humans have become superhuman, compared to humanity of today. I am interested in hearing about stories which tackle this problem. That is, how to write a good story where all humans are superhuman, and so the story is not about the clash between the ordinary humans and superhumans.
> 
> Maybe I should add that sometimes the clash set to some remove.  The superhumans have become separated from the main branch of humanity, and the clash is between the main branch and separated superhumans.
> 

To quote a wise cape-wearing sage, "when everyone's super, nobody will be".

 From the New World:  Every human has telekinetic powers that are 
potentially vast.  So in the tiny oasis where the story is set to 
preserve amount of civilization they are all conditioned to be 
nonviolent, to die if they ever kill anyone and those on whom the 
conditioning didn't take are "disappeared" by the government.

The Stars My Destination:  Everyone can teleport.  It makes designing 
prisons tricky.  Note that the protagonist becomes super by getting 
powers everyone else doesn't have.

A Certain Scientific Rail Gun:  In that particular city everyone has a 
power.  But most people's powers are inconsequential garbage, if only 
because it takes intense training to develop them into something useful. 


Arrow and Ace:  Everyone develops a single random superpower at puberty.

Darksword Trilogy:  Everyone can do magic.  Because they kill any babies 
who detect as not being able to do magic.

Xanth:  Everyone has a magic talent but a lot of them are just garbage.

Great Ship:  Everyone is ageless and nigh unkillable so that hard 
science interstellar travel becomes feasible.  They're willing to spend 
thousands of years making the crossing.

The Hour Before Morning:  Everyone is a telepath.

Vatta's War:  Everyone has a brain implant unless they are some kind of 
religious nut or you know irrationally paranoid about having a thing in 
their brain that can mess with their brain chemistry and is vulnerable 
to outside electromagnetic influence.  But who'd worry about that? 
<snerk>

Paranoia:  Everyone has mutant powers but having known mutant powers is 
an execution offense.

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